794:(another wrong statement all around Knowledge (XXG)). The participating broadcaster is the one invited by the EBU to participate; the one who decides whether to participate or not; the one who pays the participation fee to finance the event; the one who selects a song freely at his discretion, organizing or not a national final that it can take into account or not; the one who secures the rights of the song from the songwriters; the one who hires the performer (and the conductor when there was an orchestra) for the live performance; the one who has to provide the EBU with all the legal and audiovisual documentation of its entry, including contracts, lyrics, the video-clip (in most cases produced by itself), music track (or sheet music for the orchestra), and the camerawork layout for the live broadcasting; the one who decides on the staging of the live performance; the one who appoints a head of delegation as its contact with the EBU, and the one responsible for its delegation at the event; the one who assembles the "national" jury for the competition (even when there was only televoting, since the jury was the backup); the one who hires the notary public to certify its jury's vote; the one who owns the broadcasting rights and the brand exploitation rights in the country (exclusively or shared with the other EBU members in the same country); the one who produces the broadcast for his local viewers with its own commentators and onscreen information; the one who produces and transmits the voting segment of its spokesperson for the international broadcast; the one who bears expenses of all this; the one who has to host the contest the following year in case of winning; and the one who takes all the criticism if the participation was not successful. (And I've probably left out some other things). The participating broadcaster is not only a fundamental data for an entrant but also for the event itself.
1416:- First, as it is noted on the page where it lists them: "heart-flags are not adopted until Eurovision Song Contest (ESC) 2004, Junior Eurovision Song Contest (JESC) 2008, and never exist in Eurovision Young Dancers (EYD), Eurovision Young Musicians (EYM) and Eurovision Magic Circus Show (EMCS)", so the use of heart-flags in a general way, besides being weird, is not historically accurate. In addition, we have two versions of the heart-flags, the one 2004-14 and the 2015-present, and the one corresponding to the year in question should be used. This would lead us to the flags being displayed differently depending on the year.
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broadcaster. This does not mean that the country is the one that competes, and statements like "the broadcaster organizes the country's participation", "the broadcaster participates on behalf of the country", "the broadcaster selects the country's entry", and the like, which are all over
Knowledge (XXG), are all wrong. The broadcaster participates in the contest in its own right, and has full control over its participation. It is not just an important part of how the participation occurs, it is who really participate and who pay to do so.
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943:. The participating broadcaster is the actual entrant in the contest, as is the one invited by the EBU to participate that year and the one who has to fulfill all the obligations for it. In order to compete it selects the song, hire the artist/performer, and stage the performance. The participation is its and its alone as it has full control over it.
1431:. Should it be rectangular or heart-shaped?. If it is heart-shaped, you have to make sure it is displayed correctly in the infobox, in the Knowledge (XXG) search box, and in the pop-ups when hovering over links. Either way it would not be coherent in either case, since there would be three different shaped flags all over the years.
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articles, the focus is on the entry itself (i.e. selection, song, artist, and performance), where those aspects are critical details and are therefore in the infobox. It's not a "discrepancy" as these are different types of articles. If we include every detail in every article, then we lose the whole
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template according to everything said above. An additional year (or flag shape version) parameter will have to be added to the template so that it can display the correct flag, which means that it would have to be edited every time that the template is used to set the corresponding year (flag shape
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And this has nothing to do with the audience of the article and the impact, this is not a blog, this is an encyclopedia, and it has to do with the presentation of the information and facts correctly, preferably in order of importance. And the participating broadcaster is, indeed, the foremost piece
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It comes down to the audience of the article and the impact. It is through the national broadcaster (a government entity) that the country is represented, otherwise articles, press, viewers, etc. would be saying things like "BBC in the
Eurovision Song Contest"; however, these articles are about the
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We are not including every detail in the infobox. We want to include only the essential information: the entrant (the participating broadcaster), the name of the country under which it participates, the entry (song + songwriters), the artist/performer, the selection method, and the result. I don't
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articles from old years to see that in many cases, it's not just that it's not in the lead section, it's that it's not even mentioned anywhere in the prose or it's mentioned as something totally secondary. There are even articles that have passed the GA review that talk about a wrong participating
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I'm still not convinced it makes sense. I don't recall seeing examples from reliable sources that place the broadcaster ahead of the country name for identification purposes. Let's remember that the infobox is for quick-reference information; it is not intended to be an exhaustive list nor even a
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articles is also for better identification of the participant internationally, matching the way it is presented in the contest, and to group all the entrants that come from the same country in the same place and in the same way. In no way does it mean that it is the country that participates. And
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articles are the most in-depth articles of this project with the most detailed information on a participation, and it is the place where it makes the most sense to have the information of the participating broadcaster, as it is an indispensable element of the participation, since it has the power
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The ESC is a television co-production (legal, financial, and technical) of the participating broadcasters, who elect the members of the committee that governs the event on behalf of all of them. The participating broadcaster is not only "responsible for choosing a song and broadcasting the event"
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the viewer would need to know the specific broadcaster as they scan the page for the results, which is the point of the infobox on these pages? The information is still in the body of the articles. To be blunt, I cannot figure out why someone would care what the broadcaster was at the high level
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The contest is a competition between broadcasters, adding the participating broadcaster is not a vision of depth but is one of the fundamental data of the article, which should also appear prominently in the lead section. Of course there are broadcasters that have been stable over the years, but
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Yes, that is the point. The entrant is the broadcaster and the entry is the song, so we should rename in the infobox the parameter "entrant" to "performer", or to "artist". (I say "artist", even though I don't like it, because that is what is used in the "Preselection" field when the song and
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The participating broadcaster enters the competition representing its country, meaning that it competes under the name of its country, for better identification in the international competition, and to give local viewers the feeling that the participation is theirs and not just that of the
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The EBU is an organisation of broadcasting companies with their own independent legal entity. The fact that they are publicly funded or state-owned does not make them a government entity. In fact, the EBU would not allow a government entity to be a member, as it requires a certain level of
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And this points out one thing that is wrong in the infobox, as the artist/performer is called the "entrant", something that is completely incorrect as this is a song contest between broadcasters, not a singer contest, so the artist cannot be the entrant in any way.
1513:: While the hearts are nice, the existing flags need to be retained to assist users with identifying countries. Perhaps the hearts could be featured somewhere in the country in the contest articles, but the proper flags should by no means be replaced.
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The point was that it's not unprecedented to use icons in tables like that. I suggested it because these hearts are tied to these countries' presence at the contest, but perhaps it makes sense not to use them as they didn't even exist until 2004 —
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Typically, a national selection event only gets its own yearly page if the event has a greater meaning/use than just a
Eurovision selection process. If it doesn't, it just ends up splitting and/or duplicating information across two pages.
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I oppose this. The infobox is not a in depth view of the participation's entire background for the year and in most cases, the broadcaster is a stable and the same each year. I'm not sure what adding this "adds" for the reader.
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All this is not just me saying it, it is said by the EBU and the participating broadcasters in all their official documentation and communications, starting with the rules of the competition, an extract of which can be read
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this change. It's important for countries which have changed broadcaster in the past (France, Israel, Netherlands), and especially important for countries that swap broadcaster on a regular basis (Belgium, Germany, Russia)
806:'s feeling that the participating broadcaster is even more relevant than the country is correct, I would say that it is the most important piece of information of the participation. And you only have to look at
1449:, I just read your last reply just after finishing writing my long paragraph. Let it be noted that I don't dislike the idea, but I'm not sure its application is possible when taking into account all the cases.
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How do you explain the discrepancy between articles that overview a country's entire history at the contest (where the current broadcaster is prominently listed) and by year articles (where it is not) —
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performer are selected separately). I don't think we can change the parameter directly without causing a mess, but at least we can change the label displayed to "Selected performer" (or artist).
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And regarding the participating broadcaster in the infobox, I think it's better to show it with its full name followed by its abbreviation in parentheses, to match the way it's shown in the
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infobox, and to avoid confusion as for example in the case of RTP, which the same abbreviation is used by "Rádio e
Televisão de Portugal" and its predecessor "Radiotelevisão Portuguesa".
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1427:- Third, the fact that rectangular flags were used some years and heart-shaped flags other years leads to the question of what to do with the most relevant flag, the large flag in the
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articles where the broadcaster is certainly relevant information, but it is not particularly interesting to the reader and has no bearing on the quick-reference nature of an infobox.
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I am wondering if everyone would be okay with me adding coordinates of host venues to
Eurovision articles. All it would do is feature the venue coordinates in the title of the page.
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articles have the broadcaster in the infobox because those articles are about that country (and broadcaster's) overall participation efforts. The impact is not the same for the
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Why would the viewer need to know who composed the song since that's also featured in the infobox? Because it's relevant to the entry, and so is the competing broadcaster —
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indeed, the local press throughout Europe talks extensively about the participation of the broadcaster in the contest ("BBC at the
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Well the entry into the contest is the song, not the performer. I imagine just a renaming of the value from "entrant" to "performer", as is the case in the tables —
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I don't think it is making it about the venue, I think it is more about where the event was located in general. Isn't that what the (add coordinates) space is for?
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I wonder if it's really necessary to add that. The articles are about events, not venues, and the coordinates are in the corresponding venue article after all.
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I think such a change is absolutely pointless. It may be branding but we're not here for branding, are we? And also I personally don't like it esthetically...
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Yes, and I was talking about flags. I don't understand the logic in changing how the flags on one
Knowledge (XXG) page look according to the way that
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articles are focused on the performance of a country overall throughout the years, for which the broadcaster is paramount as the organizing body. For
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violation. The flags as they are used now are to aid in identification of the countries. Using heart variants makes it instead a type of decoration.
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OK. Is four enough quorum? Anyway, I'm going to request the change on the talk page of the template. Let's see if some kind soul will listen to us.
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impartiality and independence for membership (a level that the
Russian and Belarusian broadcasters do not meet, which is why they were expelled).
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I'm warming to the broadcaster in the infobox (as it's abbreviation/acronym). I'm not sure I understand this new entrant comment now though?
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the participation occurs, but it does not need to be that prominent for the quick-reference nature of the infobox. Do we have any sense of
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any changes from the standard official flags to the heart ones, this is a general encyclopedia and not one just for
Eurovision fans. --
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look on a different page, when the same page has flags that look exactly how the current flags on
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782:, I am sorry, but your reasoning is based on assumptions and general beliefs that are not true, rather than on actual facts.
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Hi. I don't know if this has ever been discussed before, but I'm wondering why the participating broadcaster is not in the
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The problem is that the user seems to have forgotten that it's not a country entering, but "EBU member broadcaster from
444:-related topics on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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That was my second thought. The infoboxes for country articles don't have photos right now, why not include it? —
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on its pages, surely we could utilize a part of Eurovision's branding and recognizability on its pages, as such:
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the use of these instead of the rectangle flags for Eurovision related tables such as the example above.
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Hi, I'm not sure that the use of the heart-flags can be applied in a general way, for several reasons.
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The use in Knowledge (XXG) of the name of the country when speaking in general and in the
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Does it not? To me it feels like the broadcaster is even more relevant than the country —
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Hey all, does anybody know how to fix this or could find a better alternative? Thanks,
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These flags are also all in the same dimensions, which would create consistency —
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that you linked literally has flags in their respective rectangular shapes on it
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of information of an entry, whether you are interested in knowing it or not.
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I would prefer it as a part of the infobox, as a part of the venue value —
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530:, I have just updated it to a black version, thanks for bringing this up!
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Just to alert you that a discussion on these two websites is going on at
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page instead of it being a redirect to Lithuania in Eurovision 2024?
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I agree with Yoyo360, I don't think these look good at all, and the
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489:. There is no consensus so far, you are welcome to have your say!
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Why are we utilizing default flags in tables and infoboxes when
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In this case the sub article is missing the detail, what now —
1419:- Second, that the use of the heart-flags means to modify the
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That's a really good question, it really should include that.
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For now it only had one edition so let's keep it together —
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First semi-final of the Eurovision Song Contest 2024
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there are cases where they have not been, such as in
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Broadcaster in the infobox song contest national year
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Sources: eurovisionartists.nl / natfinals.50webs.com
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728:countries. The broadcaster is an important part of
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Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Eurovision/Sources
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947:think we are asking for anything unreasonable.
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509:File:Eurovision Young Musicians 2024 logo.png
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764:I completely disagree with that comparison.
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1615:Noted. Thanks. I won't proceed with it.
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614:I hadn't considered this. I
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398:WikiProjects
388:project page
387:
344:
198:
125:This is the
30:
1587:Ferclopedio
1451:Ferclopedio
1433:Ferclopedio
1002:Ferclopedio
953:Ferclopedio
837:Ferclopedio
680:Ferclopedio
634:Ferclopedio
565:Ferclopedio
1689:Categories
1260:Hera Björk
897:country in
737:overview.
694:country in
451:Eurovision
442:Eurovision
417:Eurovision
83:Formatting
52:Assessment
1424:version).
1218:Lithuania
1186:Teya Dora
189:if needed
172:Be polite
127:talk page
94:News Desk
1657:IмSтevan
1575:IмSтevan
1539:IмSтevan
1517:Aris Odi
1494:MOS:FLAG
1447:ImStevan
1397:IмSтevan
1381:Spleennn
1365:IмSтevan
1350:Spleennn
1300:IмSтevan
1283:IмSтevan
1089:Country
1049:Spleennn
982:IмSтevan
921:IмSтevan
885:IмSтevan
856:IмSтevan
804:ImStevan
754:IмSтevan
717:IмSтevan
595:Aris Odi
581:IмSтevan
534:Aris Odi
528:Fort esc
513:Fort esc
200:Archives
157:get help
63:Articles
1670:Grk1011
1641:Ktkvtsh
1617:Ktkvtsh
1601:Ktkvtsh
1559:Ktkvtsh
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1330:Yoyo360
1316:Ktkvtsh
1312:support
1255:Iceland
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1194:Ramonda
1115:Moldova
1098:Points
1092:Artist
1044:support
998:country
967:Grk1011
937:country
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906:Grk1011
869:Grk1011
851:country
816:country
780:Grk1011
766:Grk1011
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702:Grk1011
672:Germany
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649:Grk1011
620:Ktkvtsh
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112:Members
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72:Popular
61:Quality
41:Article
1511:Oppose
1490:Oppose
1466:Oppose
1181:Serbia
1148:Cyprus
1101:Place
676:Russia
674:, and
664:France
394:scale.
43:Alerts
1295:Edit:
1095:Song
526:Hey @
386:This
205:Index
185:Seek
74:Pages
1674:talk
1645:talk
1621:talk
1605:talk
1591:talk
1563:talk
1527:talk
1502:talk
1455:talk
1437:talk
1385:talk
1354:talk
1334:talk
1320:talk
1238:119
1159:Liar
1053:talk
1006:talk
971:talk
957:talk
910:talk
895:The
873:talk
853:" —
841:talk
829:here
818:and
797:The
770:talk
743:talk
706:talk
684:talk
653:talk
638:talk
624:talk
605:talk
569:talk
544:talk
517:talk
495:talk
174:and
32:Talk
23:Home
1522:❯❯❯
1472:AxG
1201:47
1164:67
1131:20
1085:R/O
734:why
730:how
600:❯❯❯
539:❯❯❯
1691::
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1280:—
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