2147:. Starting an edit-war over article names to include Muslims more when there already are sufficient spin-off articles is not in the project's best interests since it would promote antagonism and undermine the ease of finding these articles. It seems to swing the WP:UNDUE pendulum too far in favour of the Islamic tradition at the expense of the Christian and Jewish traditions in that latent reverse discrimination/PC way. Further, I'm not even sure that "Abrahamic" is correct in all contexts since most Muslim scholars do not use the word...(2) As for the behaviour of StAnselm and Pass a Method -- it is a troubling pattern on both sides, and if it continues (as inevitably I fear it will), they will be at least topic banned, at worse blocked. (3) As for the Russell Crowe/Aronofsky film, that claim does look like original research
1025:, and thanks for asking rather than jumping into the fray. This is a young woman who has openly admitted that she suffers from several mental illnesses, and whose public behavior has grown increasingly bizarre over the years. Last year, she made a suicide attempt and also suffered a brain aneurysm. I have a sister who had a brain aneurysm a few years ago, and know in great detail how devasting such a brain trauma can be. So any discussion of her bizarre ravings has to be tempered by a compassionate understanding that we are talking about a person who appears not to be in control of her faculties. But for a genetic predisposition and a burst blood vessel, it could be you or I behaving in such a fashion. So let's be careful, cautious and always compassionate.
543:
they all did share some common ethnic background, that would also mean all
Christians share a common ethnic background as well (Christianity came from Judaism). Being Christian myself (Catholic to be specific), I know for a fact that many people of my religion have no common ethnic background as me. Many non-Christians also convert to the religion later in life. A few of my cousins are half-Jewish (two of my father's brothers married women who celebrate Judaism), and one of these cousins brought up at his Bar Mitzvah that the only thing that separates Judaism from Christianity is their disagreement over whether or not Jesus (a man who celebrated Judaism himself) was the Messiah/savior. Therefore, it is only a religion out of those three.
593:) 18:44, 4 November 2013 (UTC) I would wonder if it would not be more accurate to include the patrynimic (father's name). Jewish tradition, in the Western communities, is against naming someone after a living person. There would not be a Yissachar Dov Jr., as the father could not name his son the same name as his own. Even grandchildren might not get the name if the original YD was alive at the times of their births. YDR(I) might have been more accurately differentiated from YDR(II) by their having different father's names. In the Talmud, there are even those who are identified solely by the father's name, e.g Ben Nanas or Son of Nanas.
2123:(1) I have no objection to including information in an article about a putatively Judeo-Christian figure about how Islam considers/adapts his story in the Qu'ran or the Hadith, etc--as you described (which I think is generally the norm as it is). Some of the expansive discussions about these persons in the Islamic and late Christian periods (especially in the Medieval traditions that emerge after the Crusades) reveal interesting contexts and symbolism to augment their story. However, in a case like this where we have
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based on sources and coverage. Sure, the customary age for a bar/bat mitzvah is 12/13. But there are so many people who do it at an older age, and so much coverage to prove this, that it is a noted fact of life. #3 The amount of information that can be written can be lengthy enough to be a separate article. This article is not finished yet. I am still reading through more sources. That qualifies the topic for a separate article.
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2131:, and the biblical person article is largely Judeo-Christian in scope there shouldn't be a need to start retitling articles just because someone thinks Muslims are being left out by calling it "biblical". Similarly, other figures that appear in both Biblical and Islamic traditions i.e. the many articles on Mary,
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is as guilty as the editor repeatedly placing it. I think that's merely a function of some Hebrew Bible articles not being widely watchlisted and the reverting being left to small number of responsible watchdog editors. It's noteworthy that the edits occurred at Lot etc. which would be less prominent
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to say that the film is based on "surah Hud and
Genesis" - which looks like WP:OR with no evidence that director Darren Aronofsky and writers Aronofsky and Ari Handel drew on the Quran before drawing on Genesis. Including Islamic/Quranic content into Hebrew Bible articles needs to be done sensitively
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Their only attempt at explanation is their occasional citing of sources, but many of their edits are unsourced or cite sources that do not seem to support their claim; those that due give undue weight to their preferred views or present historical (if notable) opinions as facts. As far as I can tell,
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I've been wondering about this too. I have done my best on Haym
Solomon and Ashkenazi Hebrew, I'm afraid I hadn't spotted the others. My approach has not been to revert this user's edits completely but to extract any factual nuggets there may be and discard the rest. But I don't want to spend a great
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bar/bat mitzvahs as opposed to regular ones. There have been articles on the topic in many newspapers and magazines. Altogether, these provide a mountain of notability. #2 The guidelines as to whether or not there should be an article on
Knowledge are not based on its normality in tradition. They are
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Only a religion- I personally know many Jews who share no common ethnic background. This is why it would be a mistake to, for example, say one is of "Jewish descent". Keep in mind, there are also lots of people who did not originally celebrate
Judaism that convert to the religion later in life. If
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issue to have a fringe
Christian/Messianic theory even be mentioned. This probably does not constitute a neutral notification, sorry, but the comment "recurring cycle of edits over the past x years has been repeatedly rejected by editors on pages relevant to the subject" is demonstrable from edit
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article there is discussion of how to refer to a fictional character played by Peter
Sellers in three advertisements that he made for Barclay's Bank. The 3 advertisements are available for viewing on YouTube. Rather than provide a direct link to the video containing those 3 advertisements, I will
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theory that the
Christian book of Matthew is based on a lost Hebrew original (scholars considered it a product of Hellenistic Judaism, written in Greek), primarily because a recurring cycle of edits over the past x years has been repeatedly rejected by editors on pages relevant to the subject. I
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grounds, but also because it's not necessary. Despite being a former seminarian, I have to say "Abrahamic person" is not what I'd be searching for biblical names, and I'd probably scratch my head for a bit if I saw that on a disambiguation page before having an "oh...yeah...that
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2087:, yes that would be my take too. However when I made the above comment I was only aware of the moves/titling issues, which now appears to be a small part of larger on-going context from edits to Hebrew Bible articles first raised with diffs linked at the beginning of
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I think "Adult Bar and Bat
Mitzvah" should be merged back into the article "Bar and Bat Mitzvah". The distinctions between two are largely distinctions between ceremonial activities taking place at different points in life. I think these are of secondary importance.
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Thanks for pointing it out, Hasirpad. It's very important to track those who vandalize or twist the truth on
Knowledge, thus we must then warn and even block them if needed. I'll soon review some of this IP's recent edits, and will then decide what action to take.
2005:(cur | prev) 19:41, 24 December 2013 StAnselm (talk | contribs) m . . (46,380 bytes) (0) . . (StAnselm moved page Talk:Lot (Abrahamic person) to Talk:Lot (biblical person) over redirect: Reverted undiscussed move - please use WP:RM) (undo | thank)
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I am not the most tactful of editors and I'd prefer to avoid this type of BLP edit and any potential fallout. I'm hoping that someone can tell me if this info should even be in the article, and if so is there someone who would want to add it. ▫
2011:(cur | prev) 10:27, 27 November 2013 StAnselm (talk | contribs) m . . (46,380 bytes) (0) . . (StAnselm moved page Talk:Lot (Abrahamic person) to Talk:Lot (biblical person) over redirect: Reverted strange and possibly POV move) (undo | thank)
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is a disambiguation - and leads to a stringed instrument (???). Can anyone familiar with Hebrew give a more accurate meaning (and it'd be great if we could stick the Hebrew letters in the article, which I am not sure I know how to do). Cheers,
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which to my mind means following the usual (1) in Tanakh, (1.1) in Talmud; (2) Christian; (3) in Islam chronological format. But that doesn't extend to edits such as e.g. the first diff above editing Russell Crowe's upcoming 2014 Noah film
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There's slow ongoing discussion on whether to de-Fork and merge back to Yahweh, whether to leave separate, or what to do about improving provision of modern WP:RS and WP:NPOV sources. If there are any knowledgeable editors available...
581:. He is of the opinion that all such pages should be renamed this way. I pointed out that Judaism has no such concept as "the first," the "second," or even "senior" and "junior". Other editors are invited to comment at
2008:(cur | prev) 19:40, 24 December 2013 Pass a Method (talk | contribs) m . . (46,380 bytes) (0) . . (Pass a Method moved page Talk:Lot (biblical person) to Talk:Lot (Abrahamic person) over redirect) (undo | thank)
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ed Michael E. Stone, Theodore A. Bergren (2002). There are objective NPOV WP:RS sources to fill out Islam sections on Hebrew Bible characters, but too often editors are simply citing the Quran itself, counter
986:. I considered that it could be some long and elaborate hoax (seeing as how she gave an interview a while back saying she'd converted to Judaism), but there are Nazi images uploaded to her Facebook, and now a
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Yahweh, prior to becoming Yahweh, the national god of Israel, and taking on monotheistic attributes in the 6th century BCE, was a part of the Canaanite pantheon in the period before the Babylonian captivity.
2014:(cur | prev) 09:35, 27 November 2013 Pass a Method (talk | contribs) m . . (46,380 bytes) (0) . . (Pass a Method moved page Talk:Lot (biblical person) to Talk:Lot (Abrahamic person)) (undo | thank)
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has been fairly vocally antisemitic in the last few years, though this isn't reflected in her article. Most of the sources are primary, though there are some secondary sources like this one from
391:. I think not. If the article would grow substantially, then perhaps. Still, all of this does not mean I agree it this article should be mentioned in the Jewish life template. Let's take this to
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I'm not a part of this project, but I have been running into this IP users edits, would you like me to rollback their edits, or just allow you guys to do it? Maybe report them to you somehow?
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for a while now, and I couldn't find any templates for the Biblical Judges. Will someone with knowledgeable insight on how to create templates please make one for the Judges — Thank you —
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900:, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for possible deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at
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bar or bat mitzvah is not an integral part of Jewish life, for the obvious reason that normally one would have it in childhood. So here you have no less than three reasons.
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This, and similar edits on other articles, might benefit from broader input. I haven't posted this note at WP Islam or WP Christianity yet but will link to it.
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A word that has entered the vernacular should not be italicised. Within an article, there should be consistency for each use (so I would always italicise
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commercials. There is a heated discussion regarding the sources to support the content. Input can be very helpful to everyone involved, including me.
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Should transliterated Hebrew words be capitalized and/or italicized? So far, usage seems to be inconsistent, even within one article. For example,
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346:. Moreover, I am not sure this article should exist, as it seems a fork of the regular article about bar and bat mitzvah. What is sure, is that an
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One last thing, most of the articles you mentioned below are changed by the IP user again. Definitely should get an admin to do something.
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but that's fine. I was hoping to remove the box form style, and put a more simple one such as the example I was thinking about. —
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As those who are familiar with the subject will know the main piece of modern evidence for the Yahweh pre-Israel deity theory is
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Just as a heads up an IP editor is editing instances of Judaism insisting that it is a religion and not a race or an ethnicity:
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IP's edits have been reverted many times by various users (including myself, obviously); check the relevant pages' histories.
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It seems, from a brief look, that the main problem with the Islamic sections in Hebrew Bible character/event articles is
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I just looked at the history of these articles, is this user not explaining himself at all? Maybe you should consider
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I agree the subject is notable, no problem here. The question is if it should be treated in a separate article from
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has been adding odd Ashkenazi-centric points of view, unsourced or with unreliable sources, to a set of articles:
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be it" reaction after a few other attempted searches. But as for disambiguation purposes, we already have
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More recently, the damaged Ugaritic cuneiform text KTU 1.1:IV:14-15 is also included in the discussion:
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Is Judaism a race/ethnicity or a religion? IP editor edits instances, making them say it is a religion
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Given the cicada's anatomy and sound, and what I know of French, that sounds apt. Thanks folks :)
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Extensive discussion can be found on the Talk page of the article. Please feel free to weigh in.
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I added the Hebrew spelling to the article, but as far as I know, the usual translation of
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For the reason I mentioned twice in the editsummary: that it is nothing different from a
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Knowledge:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive820#Editor_deleting_Islamic_content
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related - specifically the lack of good secondary sources, such as Stephen J. Vicchio
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has already rewritten the IP's contributions in a suitable tone and proper formatting.
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instead suggest that you use the search terms "Peter Sellers Barclays Commercials" at
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Yes, agree with those comments, though I don't think an editor repeatedly reverting
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If the edits are justified, then so be it. But it's good to know about these edits.
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to include the Islamic tradition in the article name rather unnecessary, IMHO.--
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to discuss their rendering of Lot, called Lut, which makes the name change from
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I am not sure how to deal with this as I have little experience in dealing with
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I realized that I am used to the classical "school" translation of the Biblical
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A request for comment on whether to describe a character as a Jewish con man (2)
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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realise the actual details of such a theory are not of interest to editors on
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here, apparently), the primary editor of the Hebrew article on Haym Solomon.
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article and the word "Jewish" to describe a conman character in several 1980
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Thanks ...(facepalm) ...actually obvious given the English name is "double
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Ethno-religious group. That has long standing and hard defended consensus.
252:"Filmed in April 1980 in Ireland, he played a Jewish conman, Monty Casino."
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Help with Hebrew needed in an unlikely location....an Australian cicada...
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and in line with the WP:WEIGHT and chronological relation described in
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on her YouTube with lyrics clearly inline with this whole breakdown.
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occurring that seems relevant to this project. It's regarding the
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Can I assume that reverting these edits would be uncontroversial?
417:. As Debresser rightly puts it, a bar mitzvah is a bar mitzvah.
1431:—there also imposing his/her view of Haym Solomon's ethnicity.
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is used to mean "drum"—hence the two Hebrew Knowledge articles
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1116:(which perhaps should be renamed "Template:Biblical judges").
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Someone has messed around with the "Ashkenazi Jews" article.
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article regarding the use of word "Jewish" of a character (1)
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The argument seems to be that Lot is mentioned in the Quran
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There is a discussion taking place about whether to include
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This article has every reason to exist. #1 it is clearly
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IP 24.191.198.98's contributions on the Hebrew Knowledge
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Which is the appropriate noticeboard to report this?
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In particular, I would appreciate the input of users
2045:- I'd lean toward the "biblical person" dab just on
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on second thought, I am doubting my own translation.
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Just a note - this page is getting overspill from a
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Not sure where it should go and be used as a source
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on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. X
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Agree with Debresser ... it is all three of them.--
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Article on sexual abuse in Hasidic community in NYC
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1683:Reverted all problematic edits mentioned above at
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1139:I was thinking of a template more like this one:
409:The phenomenon certainly merits a subhead on the
1362:(the French and German tosafists were Ashkenazi
1317:(Medieval French Jews were of Ashkenazi origin:
294:Peter Sellers on stage, radio, screen and record
1761:. I think an administrative block is in order.
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413:page. It does not qualify for its own page per
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652:The Hebrew for "drum" is Thoph" (תוף). See
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1904:Thank you! I guess I'll try that.
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292:This same issue is also found at:
112:This has been forked off the main
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2145:Biblical narratives and the Quran
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861:2012 Munich artworks discovery
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1397:editors. Can anyone help me?
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538:04:33, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
524:23:59, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
509:17:01, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
486:17:47, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
442:20:18, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
427:19:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
405:19:16, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
383:04:54, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
360:01:14, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
337:00:35, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
306:14:06, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
287:13:27, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
195:08:41, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
154:07:41, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
2199:Bible Figures in Islamic Art
1757:The IP just did it again on
1307:; relying on, among others,
1291:) who edited in mid-October)
969:12:41, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
914:04:29, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
888:15:54, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
878:. Additional input welcome.
317:Copied here from my talkpage
264:05:47, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
237:22:41, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
169:The Child-Rape Assembly Line
2173:the qur'anic sura Shura and
1021:policy always comes first,
273:You may wish to comment at
2242:
1423:Also interesting to note:
1180:Italics and Capitalization
929:Category:Wikipedian rabbis
575:Yissachar Dov Rokeach (II)
2171:is a person mentioned in
567:Yissachar Dov Rokeach (I)
321:Adult bar and bat mitzvah
312:Adult Bar and Bat Mitzvah
2178:than adding "Moses ....
1520:deal of time on this. --
1144:Rulers of Ancient Israel
1112:The article already has
579:Yissachar Dov Rokeach II
107:Yahweh (Canaanite deity)
1639:Sirmylesnagopaleentheda
1486:Sirmylesnagopaleentheda
898:Category:Pogrom victims
893:Category:Pogrom victims
571:Yissachar Dov Rokeach I
282:aka The Red Pen of Doom
167:Ketcham, Christopher. "
2137:Cain and Abel in Islam
1997:(Abrahamic person) dab
141:
122:
2186:and the Hebrew Bible.
2125:Lot (biblical person)
2062:Lot (biblical person)
1334:Rashi was Ashkenazi:
624:1843 source is French
42:of past discussions.
1707:already reverted by
902:the category's entry
565:An editor has moved
325:Template:Jewish life
132:From KTU II:IV:13-14
1775:I've also notified
411:Bar and Bat Mitzvah
395:for further input.
389:Bar and Bat Mitzvah
344:bar and bat mitzvah
210:Request for Comment
1192:" in the lead. --
1082:Abimelech (Judges)
2085:User:ColonelHenry
1779:(not the same as
1777:he:User:Gilgamesh
1701:List of Tosafists
1360:List of Tosafists
1292:
1219:
1073:Creating template
1057:comment added by
952:
951:
761:Since the French
674:is "tambourine".
471:, but it seems a
457:Talk:Antisemitism
318:
283:
103:
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54:
53:
48:current talk page
2233:
2180:in the Quran and
1977:
1972:IP now blocked.
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1036:Let's discuss it
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1228:In ictu oculi
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733:Modern Hebrew
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585:. Thank you,
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2184:in the Quran
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2153:ColonelHenry
2148:
2129:Lot in Islam
2066:ColonelHenry
2057:Lot in Islam
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1960:
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1941:Reported at
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1876:I would say
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1812:Haym Solomon
1806:
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1725:Haym Solomon
1720:
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1705:Rabbeinu Tam
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1371:Haym Solomon
1347:Rabbeinu Tam
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1053:— Preceding
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469:Antisemitism
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2149:prima facie
1395:tendentious
1165:—Preceding
1100:—Preceding
1059:67.70.40.95
501:WhisperToMe
476:histories.
187:WhisperToMe
36:This is an
2139:, we have
1882:User:הסרפד
530:Epeefleche
393:WP:JUDAISM
208:There's a
98:Archive 35
90:Archive 33
85:Archive 32
79:Archive 31
73:Archive 30
68:Archive 29
60:Archive 25
2201:(2012),
2097:WP:WEIGHT
1808:Yet again
1709:Debresser
1482:Debresser
961:Debresser
824:Cas Liber
699:Cas Liber
658:Debresser
633:Cas Liber
516:Debresser
473:WP:WEIGHT
464:WP:FRINGE
397:Debresser
352:Debresser
323:from the
163:Here is:
1985:Hasirpad
1982:call me
1961:Hasirpad
1958:call me
1917:Hasirpad
1914:call me
1900:Bluefist
1887:Bluefist
1865:Hasirpad
1862:call me
1848:Hasirpad
1845:call me
1828:Bluefist
1820:Josh3580
1816:reverted
1796:Hasirpad
1793:call me
1746:Hasirpad
1743:call me
1721:Not done
1656:Hasirpad
1653:call me
1637:, where
1621:Bluefist
1608:Bluefist
1595:Bluefist
1578:Bluefist
1559:Hasirpad
1556:call me
1505:Hasirpad
1502:call me
1461:Yambaram
1444:Hasirpad
1441:call me
1412:Hasirpad
1409:call me
1309:Josippon
1289:contribs
1275:contribs
1259:contribs
1055:unsigned
880:Bus stop
834:contribs
805:Hasirpad
802:call me
782:Hasirpad
779:call me
748:תוף מרים
720:Casliber
709:contribs
687:Hasirpad
684:call me
643:contribs
434:Bus stop
415:WP:CFORK
298:Bus stop
256:Bus stop
229:Oakshade
2208:WP:PSTS
2191:WP:PSTS
2043:Comment
1878:WP:AN/I
1763:Yoninah
1697:Tosafot
1590:WP:AN/I
1490:Yoninah
1356:Tosafot
1209:kohanim
1190:kohanim
1167:undated
1102:undated
1077:Hello,
820:drummer
763:tambour
628:tambour
595:Artstop
587:Yoninah
419:Yoninah
375:Xyz7890
366:notable
329:Xyz7890
248:YouTube
241:At the
173:Archive
39:archive
2047:WP:UCN
1822:; and
1194:Ypnypn
1153:♣Jerm♣
1088:♣Jerm♣
1029:Cullen
1019:WP:BLP
998:Johnny
984:Animal
756:Miriam
622:. The
573:, and
280:TRPoD
114:Yahweh
2107:WP:RS
2093:WP:RS
2052:could
1976:הסרפד
1952:הסרפד
1908:הסרפד
1856:הסרפד
1839:הסרפד
1824:again
1787:הסרפד
1759:Rashi
1737:הסרפד
1693:Rashi
1647:הסרפד
1627:bitey
1550:הסרפד
1544:Rashi
1496:הסרפד
1435:הסרפד
1403:הסרפד
1329:Rashi
1186:Kohen
947:rabbi
796:הסרפד
773:הסרפד
678:הסרפד
614:Thoph
370:adult
348:adult
277:. --
200:RfC:
16:<
2216:talk
2157:talk
2143:and
2135:vs.
2115:talk
2102:diff
2095:and
2070:talk
2031:talk
1937:Done
1767:talk
1727:and
1699:and
1680:Done
1526:talk
1488:and
1465:talk
1358:and
1283:talk
1269:talk
1253:talk
1232:talk
1218:T@lk
1198:talk
1063:talk
1017:Our
988:song
965:talk
927:and
910:talk
884:talk
868:this
828:talk
703:talk
662:talk
637:talk
599:talk
591:talk
549:talk
534:talk
520:talk
505:talk
482:talk
438:talk
423:talk
401:talk
379:talk
356:talk
333:talk
302:talk
260:talk
233:talk
227:. --
191:talk
178:Vice
171:." (
150:talk
1944:ANI
1818:by
1810:at
1427:to
1263:(=
1213:JFW
1160:729
1095:729
1004:Nin
859:at
754:of
752:Tof
744:Tof
740:תוף
736:tof
729:tof
672:tof
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