Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Korea/Popular culture/Archive 4

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doesn't make sense as the other actors and actresses doesn't have their sections removed. Coming to MVs so for example Taylor Swift featured Ed Sheeran or Alicia Keys featured Nicki Minaj in their respective MVs it shouldn't be mentioned in both Ed Sheeran's and Nicki Minaj's as those MVs are just proxies? Does it make sense? As far as I've seen no artist features other people without any reason. Their appearance will hold significance. Let's discuss about Kpop. Psy featured Taeyang and IU featured G-Dragon. So now tell me in which pages it should be mentioned and in which it shouldn't be. The answer which is obvious and is already out there all the four pages have the respective MVs mentioned. Talking about the artists who are not as popular as the above shouldn't their pages deserve the MVs to be mentioned? If the featuring in the MVs doesn't land them a role then the MV doesn't deserve a mention? What kind of illogical argument is that? So Knowledge (XXG) sections are based on popularity? If the artist and the featured artist are popular add it if not just remove that's it? Is it any different from rich getting richer and poor getting poorer? I don't know that Knowledge (XXG) works in that way atleast it is not mentioned like that in the rules and regulations. As far as I know and understood Knowledge (XXG) isn't something to showcase or measure the popularity it is there to give the complete information of the artist and their works. I just want each and every artist deserving the same respect regardless of their popularity. Is that an unnecessary thing to do?Encyclopedia is something of everything. Knowledge (XXG) is an encyclopedia as we all know. Let the wiki pages be presented in that way mentioning something of everything. So even if people want to know the little details which are not so little like MVs about an artist they should search for the artist and if the artist is not so popular they'll be directed to Korean pages and as we all know the translation does a wonderful job they should learn Hangul to just know about the MVs?Great they'll be satisfied and be thankful for the hassle. Anyway most of the people now-a-days open wiki using their phones. So there is also an option of expansion of the desired sections which will solve the 'lengthy' problems the people above are talking about.

1122:(say, 15%), that doesn't necessarily mean it's an important part of the idol/group's role as artists, or of encyclopedic value. After all, yes Weekly Idol is seen by a lot of people and may to some degree spread somebody's popularity, but at the same time a group might go to Weekly Idol more than ten times over their career, lowering its value to their careers. Knowing that this is likely, and knowing that what occurs in Weekly Idol does not focus on an artists talents as much as their entertainment value, do you consider it of equal value to other encyclopedic material? Moreover, aren't you more likely to already assume idols have already been to such shows, and do you really need a visual representation of that right here? Knowledge (XXG)'s end game is to be an encyclopedia, not a resume for idols and artists, nor a complete history of every move they make and every step they take. I realize Knowledge (XXG) is the 'first line' you find when you go to research information on an idol or group, and that it's interesting for fans to see this information somewhere, but these pages don't exist purely for the fans: it also exists for people trying to find coherent, important information regardless of whether they are fans or no. If somebody with no prior knowledge or experience was looking at a K-Pop artist's page, how would they be able to understand the triviality of a guest appearance on Immortal Song when it's listed next to a long-term MC position or a lead role in a movie? It's the triviality of guest appearances that is so controversial - yes, it provides us fans with a coherent overview of where artists have been, but in real terms outside of the fandom if you will, these appearances are meaningless. You can create a filmography sure, but if the majority of the information there bears no influence outside of a fandom context then it's not considered of encyclopedic value. So whether the information is on a main page or a separate page makes little difference to the end result: the information is considered insignificant, and therefore should not be added to Knowledge (XXG) domains. I'm in agreement with TerryAlex - full deletion of inconsequential information is probably best for the coherency of articles. 3269:

seeing other wiki editors adding the links on wiki manually, so I made the template to make it easier for them. Moreover, I'm not objecting to it being removed if it violated the rules. In addition, the template is not related to the username change, don't know why you assume that? As I said before, I changed it due to security reasons and sockpuppets impersonating me. Also, " I kept seeing links to mydramalist which seemed off to me", I would say the same thing about Hancinema which is in almost all K-movie and K-drama pages, don't know why you only assume the template I made is weird when there are tons of other templates being used. As for "I noticed that it was user-generated content", you know that almost the entire Asian IMDb section is user-generated (I edited mostly all of the IMDb Misty page since I'm a fan of the show). So how is IMDb allowed to be linked if it is user-generated content? Moreover, isn't Wiki a user-generated website? As for, "doesn't provide any unique resources", As I said, it does provide unique resources since the database lists variety shows appearances, even the minor ones which are not allowed on Wiki due to the huge amount of detail. Moreover, it is not against the rules if the info is correct. I made the "mydramalist" for the template and it was approved first since the website was one of the top 5000 websites which proves notability, however, we, other editors and I, failed to find secondary sources that are why it was deleted and I did not object to that. Hopefully, this clarifies everything, and if you still believe it should be deleted, please request that here

3178:: What can normally be linked: Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Knowledge (XXG) article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons). However, If you see that it should be deleted cause it doesn't follow the rules, please do request for its deletion. I'm interested in editing South Korean related pages, so I have no issue with this. As for Nicemagnet comment, "On April 8, 2017 wikipedia user CherryPie94 was reprimanded for "conflicts of interest" pertaining to website "mydramalist" and their edits." An editor questioned me on this and I showed him/her I'm not related to the website. I made various templates (after seeing people adding link, so I created templates for them to make it easier), such as Daum and Naver, and have been using them. Moreover, I would appreciate not using the old username which I changed due to security reasons and sockpuppets making accounts with similar names. Moreover, if it is spamming that I and other users were adding the external links to various databases, I would argue that some particular users add a lot of Hancinema links too. Also, what is your opinion about the other external links such as Daum, Hancinema, and Naver, so that I know which is allowed and what is not allowed to be linked? If we remove this template, please notify me so that I can help remove link from wiki pages. ~~ 1612:

they are just on the shows to fulfill their promo duties for a new movie or album and are only on the show for about 5 to 10 minutes at the end of the show. In these Korean shows they're promoting only themselves and under a huge amount of stress. If they fail to be funny or 'cute' or interesting in these shows they will lose out on movie/drama roles for the future or their boy/girl group will be disbanded. It's a big deal in East Asia, especially for the non-A-list actors/singers (I think A-listers like Sunny/IU should have something like their own separate article detailing their guest appearances and filmography if people want that. It shows how popular they are, which is more important in East Asia than the West due to culture. And it is a huge reason why Sunny/IU have so many commercials/drama/movie/etc. gigs). Shows like 'Hello Counselor' and 'Law of the Jungle' with only 3 or 4 guests for the whole one or two episode arc aren't typical variety shows like 'Strong Heart' or 'Celebrity Golden Bell' where you have like 20 guests in one episode and each guest talks for a grand total of 2 minutes.

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filmography. So I think this shouldn't be applicable to the person who was once an idol, quit being an idol and was cast in the variety shows after becoming an actor/actress. So kindly stop removing the once-an-idol-turned-actor variety shows section. I also wonder why some people are thinking that MV appearances are insignificant and the section should be removed. As far as I understood the whole point of removing the variety shows is because they doesn't help the artist's career. But featuring in MVs does help boosting their career. Why can't people understand that it is the most significant thing in an artists career and it should be proudly mentioned? People come to Knowledge (XXG) to know about the unknown. So shouldn't people who doesn't know have the right to know about the person who they want to know better? Knowledge (XXG) is an encyclopedia and you get everything from it. In most of the cases the search starts and ends here. In my opinion as Korean culture is getting international recognition it is not a wise thing to remove the MV appearances.

1074:, where anyone can compete and there are also prizes in terms of money etc., while those Korean "competitions" like King of Mask Singer and many others are actually nothing more than variety shows for celebrities, so being a contestant in 1-2 episodes is not more notable than being a guest on a talk show. Shows like Produce 101 can be counted as a competition since they are part of the show for the whole season, not just 1-2 episodes. Another similar example is Idol Star Championships – this is a variety show as well, it cannot be counted as a "competition", it is not recognited by any sports institution. How to solve the problem ? I dont know, probably what TerryAlex said, simply delete EVERYTHING and leave only roles (lead, minor, cameos) in the films, dramas, and television series (and maybe web dramas, although they are less notable than regular dramas). Maybe leave MC roles as well, but only if being host for the whole season in a notable show (needs a Wiki article), and not just temporary/guest host for 4-5 episodes. 3246:

it was user generated content and doesn't provide any unique resources. So trying to understand why there were so many links to mydramalist, I looked at the history tab for popular Korean drama pages on wikipedia and noticed you were pretty active in monitoring the external links, but you added or allowed so many links to mydramalist. I couldn't understand why, so I clicked your talk page history. I was very surprised to see that under an earlier username, you created and authored the wikipedia page for mydramalist and created the external link templates for linking to mydramalist. You were also questioned about having conflicts of interest with mydramalist by other administrators, but denied that. Then after changing your username (and about 6 months later total?) every new Korean drama series page on Knowledge (XXG) has a link to mydramalist. I thought that was questionable and decided to make an account to post it here.

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veteran editors. As observed in your talk pages as well as other pages, I feel that you tend to cut people off the conversation and have a little odd in putting forth words, I understand that it is your second language. I also don't think this discussion should go any further as the previous discussion of Viu ended up very open and not much have been discussed (which may simply mean nobody is interested in it) and I will say it is no consensus among the entire community. Just like how many pages still do not follow WP:KO/RS and used Viu. In summary, I will not edit pages any further which you have a vested interest in, and will follow all community guidelines as closely as possible. This is the committment to all users. I appreciate your work in all the pages, especially Another Miss Oh, Doctors, LOTJ, Dinner Together as well as all the awards. I don't think the entire discussion will go anywhere, I feel this is like

966:'s page as an example, because that's where I was made aware of this discussion. Contestant roles, like Sunny's contestant appearance on 1 vs 100 is basically the same as a guest appearance, and is is no way more notable than her guesting several times on Infinite Challenge, and Running Man back when it was a big show. Even though Sunny was a regular member of Cheonhajangsa, that show had a viewership rating of 1.0% or less, and would've done less for her career than her multi-episode guest appearance on Infinite Challenge in 2013, which average a rating over 15.3%. Also curious about how a cameo for a drama, which are often short and nowhere near a full episode is deemed to be more worthy of inclusion that a variety show guest appearance that lasted for a full episode. And how does a web drama with a couple of thousand viewers do more for a career than a weekend variety show? 2652:

think they must be included. I agree with the new format since it was easier to edit compared to the previous one. Digital single/OSTs that are released way back when KPOP is not popular worldwide can be left behind as what they are but we can change it with the new one. For the year starting 2011, other digital singles and OSTs that performed well in the chart can be included on these pages since KPOP has been known overseas so i think that these singles must still be included. I agree also to one of the comment/opinion about these pages that help the fans know when will be the release of the new album/single(either w/ physical format or digitally released) of their idol. We know that other popular artists nowadays started also from scratch so i think these artists must not be neglected( my opinion about debuting groups).Please think about it carefully. Thank You :)

1327:, where even songs that peaked at 188th place, or songs that didn't chart at all is included. A lot of k-pop artists even have their own wikipedia pages just for a list of awards they either received or where nominated for, a list of endorsements or commercials. There is a lot of information included on these pages that should also be questioned if variety show appearances are questioned. Especially in the case of idols that are also TV entertainers. Space isn't really the issue here either. For artists or entertainers that have yet to do enough variety show work to warrant a separate filmography page, the guest appearances can be grouped together and added to the bottom of the variety show table in a collapsible table set to be closed at page load. That way you stop this mass deletion of information, and does not hinder the reading of wikipedia articles in any way. 1163:, and as mentioned in my previous comment, there were several artists that were listed on the yearly digital charts through appearing on the same show. It clearly has an impact on their careers. I'd argue that appearances on all the highly rated shows can potentially have a big impact on an artist's career. There's a completely different impact from what Weekly Idol will have. Weekly Idol is a much smaller show that scores about the same as the aforementioned Cheonhajangsa in TV ratings, and caters directly to fandoms. Unlike a lot of other shows, Weekly Idol is not licensed or legally distributed with english subtitles to international audiences either. The big shows brings groups to the attention of a much bigger audience. It has happened several times that artists that appear, or whose songs are mentioned on bigger shows gets a solid boost on the charts. 1251:

no problem with genuinely important notes being made in an artist's history section where the importance of it can be explained, but without context it provides nothing worthy of notice. The other problem is that once you accept certain variety show appearances, you're setting yourself wide open for others - every moment on camera will be recorded on Knowledge (XXG). Wikipedians will add notable appearances on Running Man, and also every single time any Tom, Dick or Harry from a group has been to ISAC, After School Club - and also variety shows that have only had one or two episodes, like The Boss is Watching, will now be fair game. And since the distinction between how influential a single appearance has been can be subjectively argued over and over, you're opening the floodgates for useless debate and countless editing reversion wars.

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let's say, a drama, and become popular through the drama. But then the drama has made them popular, not the MV appearance. Even though the appearance was what triggered some PD's decision to cast an actor/actress, it only makes the appearance relevant by proxy. And relevance by proxy isn't enough to sustain true relevance. Besides that, it makes no sense to list a music video under somebody who isn't the recording artist. A motion could made to list those who appeared in the video under the recording artist's page, but again, something about their appearance would have to be actually important in and of itself, in order to be mentioned.

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music, and therefore it should be mentioned. If he had only danced around in the video a little, it would be less relevant. There is a difference between 'appearing' which is just acting in the music video and 'featuring' which means they were included in the artistic creation or realisation of the song, and so there is also a difference in relevance. Knowledge (XXG), being an encyclopedia, means that it should include that which is relevant: not every single little detail, or else we would have pages full of information about people's second uncle's twice removed's donkey that sprained its leg in the spring of 1997. You can read

3330:, under International Broadcast Singapore ONE TV ASIA MediaCorp Channel U Viu. This is a B class article which will meet all inline citations and now a GA class nominee. Please consider to cross reference to all project sites rather than have a narrow POV. In addition, look at how I treated an IP (you can scroll down my list of contribution), when they say things that make sense, I will accept. Even if they say things that doesn't make sense to me, but another editor say things that make sense, I will also accept. End of discussion as there is nothing to discuss in the first place . -- 3358:

2018 (UTC) i get it". Because after that, you copied the discussion I sended you and analyzed it. Based on your 3 ("Is there consensus on the link, is one confirmed user asking another, and the "I think") and 4 ("The replying user isn't admin also"), I have understood that you accepted but not completely. So I need other more objective point of views from veteran editors, not only the subjective POV from you or me (because maybe I was wrong about this), that's why I put the discussion in the WikiProject talk page. Thank you! Kenny htv (talk) 21:59, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

996:. You can even keep guest appearances in a collapsible table like that wiki page has done. Similar to discography pages, and separate pages for award nominations & wins, it saves a lot of space in the main articles, and rather than just removing knowledge that is often hard to look up elsewhere. Could just set a threshold for number of appearances needed before having a filmography page and group member's individual variety appearances listed in the group's filmography page until a separate page is needed. 2668:

Knowledge (XXG). People coming here to search for the songs, will see artists that they think are good, and will make articles for it with the information they know. It helps the K-Pop pages grow. The page was very clear for me, it just had lots of information, but it should be that way because it is a page that includes all songs released within a year. If the problem is the source, just find a way to tag the songs without source. Why just delete lots of information? This is clearly vandalizing the page.

593:, from an anonymous artist and a vocal trainer for idol (such as Infinite) what has he achieved after appearing on ICSYV (also a music-variety show) as a normal participant. Do not despise South Korean varierty programs, they will shine if they have real talent or at least have a place in the entertainment industry later, and vice versa, because no one is sure they will forever be idol in a group or singer, they can start another role after being guest in few variety shows (such as 3225:

Those Ip claim that MyDramaList has stole their copyrighted synopsis but when I went to check the synopsis of each website, it was different. However, they persisted on removing them and admin intervened to ban them. So, if it a calculated-move from AsianWiki, I don't think this should be accepted. However, if I'm wrong please correct me, so that I apologize. And if Snowflake91 believes it doesn't follow External links guideline, please request the deletion. ~~

1943:, along with the previous years regarding the "joining" and "departing" sections of the pages, and I think an agreement should be reached and what lists are actually included in the pages. Before, I didn't see any problem with such lists however I'm beginning to think that the whole sections for "joining" and "departing" should be deleted, and only have sections for "debuting" and "disbanding" groups - of which are notable (have their own article). 35: 3519:: You can find the TNmS ratings on the newspapers' website instead of being dependent on Naver, by going to Google then typing the syntax "korean_name_of_the_show tnms" and see the results in the "News" section, just like how I usually do. But it is not always possible to find, if there is an article which mentions the TNmS ratings, I will add it on the show's wiki page and provide also the source, but if not, I will leave empty that part. 1034:, as mentioned, is to migrate guest appearances and other variety, drama and other video media appearances to a separate pages, rather than deleting the information. It solves the problem of guest appearances taking up too much space in the main article, it retains the information, because currently I think the selective removal is very questionable in regards to what is, and what is not, noteworthy information. 2505:

listed yet. If they become notable enough to have their own article in the future, their releases can be listed at that point to avoid going back to messy articles full of releases that are neither referenced or notable. (I'll work on referencing, but obviously that will take far longer to complete.) I'll go through the previous versions to look at what singles were previously listed - if it is a single such as

1950:), but those lists are becoming long and full of un-referenced information, and are taking up large sections of the pages. I'm suggesting complete removal rather than part removal because not all members of groups are notable for their own article. To me personally, it seems silly to have a list of only notable member changes; especially when you can easily look at this information on their own articles. 916:

to be mentioned within the written text, because if this is truly notable, it would give context to someone's career. For example, someone becomes famous after they participate in some TV singing contest. Everything else need not to be included. Regarding the idea of expanding the "Categories" section, I still consider it as fluff information and don't see it as a good idea. I mean, for example,

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their careers is the same - plus the heading of this section doesn’t mention group members or artists, so group members could simply have been an example as those articles seem to be edited more often. In all honesty, at least to me, it seems a little rediculous to remove guest appearances only from idol articles and not just all from korean related articles

2310:, having a red link (no article) does not necessary means that the subject fails notability criterias, it needs to be manually checked – the easiest way to check notability is to see if their releases charted on the Gaon. If they pass notability criterias and still have red links (meaning no one has created an article yet), the band should be included. 2362:). I suggest that all artists without articles are removed from the releases list until they have their own articles and therefore meet notability guidelines to then be added. I also suggest that genres be cut to a minimum of essentials (as you can see the first feature of the linked review has five genres, but in my opinion; two is more than enough. 870:

the reader from actually keep on reading since 70% of the article were huge tables with TV apperances, without any sources. Instead of adding those non-notable shows, why not adding her role and a newer source in a "Film" section instead? It has been "TBA" since early 2016, this is much more important than guesting on tv talk shows.

2788:) But I didn't have much to write, and the other artists weren't so notable. Still, I think that labels that don't pass notability should have category pages. (ex: Category:List of Danal Entertainnment Artists.) Especially since some of these artists share the same non-notable labels (T.T.Ma and NRG both come from Music Factory.)- 1318:

an artist or a group, both of the latter are usually included in wikipedia articles. A lot of k-pop artist's wikipedia pages includes a long list of 'other charted songs', some of which have barely charted at all. They are unlikely to have affected their overall career much, yet it is included. As they should be. The article for

2084:'s latest two releases were "single albums" (does that count as a single more or an album? I think it would clear up confusion for this) If the single is later released as part of an album, such as Chung-ha's "Week" was, then the listing for the single should be removed as it isn't necessary to have it listed twice. 620:

where the person appeared for maybe 5 seconds in the show. Also if we keep music variety show guest appearances we should also keep dance ones like Hit the stage. Lastly, I do not feel guest MCing on a music show is notable in most cases. What does the one appearance add to the artist career? not much.

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Quek157. Thank you for the essay, a good experience for me after reading it.A little point: "Just like how many pages still do not follow WP:KO/RS and used Viu." This is not difficult to understand, as I mentioned in the discussion above, Knowledge (XXG) is free to contribute and less controllable in

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has not even edited on Wiki at all, so why create an account to remove the template or fish in my archived talk pages? Are you, Nicemagnet, related to the AsianWiki IPs going around on Wiki removing the template and changing your Ip each time it is banned? Cause it is starting to look that way to me.

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I personally agree with the conclusion that past relationships are not notable and should be removed from articles. Unless the relationship resulted in children or marriage, I don't see why it is notable to be in an encyclopedia, at the end of the day Knowledge (XXG) is not here to list who dated who

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I don't get why people are so bent out of shape over this topic (I'm talking about the desire to delete everything). Appearances on these shows in East Asia aren't like being on Conan or Kimmel in the U.S. where nobody cares about it and most people don't even watch those appearances. On Conan/Kimmel

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In cultural terms, there is an enormous difference in significance placed on appearing on a variety show in Korea and places like the US or Europe. I would like to know how aware the people proposing the deletion are of this cultural difference, and the notion of “entertainer” in Korea, when deciding

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For a TV entertainer, guest appearances are notable. I get why a job in a reaction panel is questionable, but regular guest appearance will in most cases be spread out over 60-80 minutes of screen-time. It's also a part of their body of work, similar to a supporting role for an actor, or a single for

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If I may stick my nose in on a conversation in which it doesn't belong? I won't touch on cameos (personally I think cameos in 1-2 episodes aren't imperative enough to warrant notation), but I think the idea is that even though a group may attend a variety show that has a really high viewer percentage

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I agree about a contestant role being the same as a guest appearance, but I don't understand why there are different rules for dramas and variety shows. cameos are often a lot shorter than a variety show guest appearance. Some of the cameos are even idols just appearing as themselves in the drama. As

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And just in case anyone is about to argue that an artist's filmography page is not noteworthy enough for a separate page, then look at the large number of individual pages for single and album releases by k-pop groups, and look at sales numbers for music projects in variety shows. The first season of

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does provide some nonsense entertainment to the viewers, but the artists participating in it does not achieve any life-changing career development out of it. I consider this the same as some nonsense interviews/documentary. Because of such shows, I began to think that having the entire "Variety Show"

915:

I have always been a long-term advocate to remove those guest appearances out of K-pop artists' articles (you can see my arguments in the Seventeen and Im Yoon-ah's talk pages mentioned at the top). Long-term guest or long-term MC roles can remain. But I find it more important for notable appearances

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was? There were literally over 100 entries in variety & radio shows section, 80+ alone in the variety shows section, 35+ in the 2016 alone, yet she is only 22...how will the article look like in 2-3 years, will there be 300 guest appearances, so you will need to scroll down for hours to reach the

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I think digital singles and OSTs that charted must still included. For example, the debut digital single of Red Velvet/Park Bo Ram did well on the chart. Lots of OSTs also that topped the music chart must still included like the OSTs of Goblin. Other OSTs are not released in a compilation album so I

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Yes! i agree, OSTs are released almost daily so I definitely think that they should only be listed when they are released in a compilation. Since you seem to be cool with this format I am going to continue the edit on said article until I am happy with it, of course you are more than welcome to chip

2194:

Articles in wikipedia should only contain NOTABLE content. There are so many groups that debut and disband each year that if we were to list every single one, there would be a never ending list of non-notable information in each article. If they don't have their own article, they're not notable, and

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I'm going to go ahead and remove the joining and departing sections from these pages, and remove entries without an article from the debuting and disbanding sections of the pages. I'll leave the releases for now until that's discussed a little more - are singles/single albums and OST's to be kept or

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looks much better than this mess, the article could use this as an example for structure. Almost entire "Debuting and disbanded groups in 2017" section should be deleted, only disbanding groups should be listed, and not every single minor, non-notable new group with 100 fans and 1 single, which will

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I respect your personal opinion. The reason why I am stressing over the difference is I saw some of the users removing the sections of the artists(who are no longer idols but completely turned into actors/actresses) referring to this discussion which is clearly about Kpop idols and groups. I rest my

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for better explanations on what kind of information should and shouldn't be on a page. Besides all of this, MV appearances should be judged on a case-to-case basis with some perhaps being more relevant than others, if they are surrounded by scandal or other kinds of upheaval, but the general rule of

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Any guest appearance, by a group or individual, on a variety show adds little relevance to the artist's careers. In such cases where a single guest appearance has more relevance such as it breaks into a scandal or significantly boosts an artist's popularity, this should be mentioned in the main text

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Variety shows that impact idol careers to that extent are in the minority, but sure - if a single appearance has made that much of an impact, then it should be noted in a line of the main text, but when you put such an appearance in say a table and divide it from its context it loses meaning. I have

984:

Since most of you who are discussing this are mainly editing k-pop pages, how about inviting some more wikipedians that deal with variety content, to at least allow for some counter-arguments rather than just steamrolling this? From the reverted edits, and removal of variety appearances I've seen so

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The article is primarily meant for someone who dont know her and want to find some information, and not for her fans to keep up with every single of her 100+ guesting appearances. Firstly, someone who doesnt know her would not care about those guest interviews at all, and secondly, it would distract

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Then I'm sorry for accusing you. I have been on Wiki since 2013, I think. If I was spamming I would have done it as soon as I made my account. I added the template after encountering the website and seeing that Knowledge (XXG) doesn't allow all variety shows credits to be added to actors' pages and

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I'm not affiliated with another group or familiar with the IP claim you are talking about. While reading about Korean dramas and movies on Knowledge (XXG), I kept seeing links to mydramalist which seemed off to me. I wasn't familiar with mydramalist, but I checked out the website and I noticed that

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for specific external links). Again the links were created by the same person who last year was reprimanded for having "conflict of interest" with website "mydramalist." Virtually every Korean drama series that has aired within the last 3 or 4 years now has an external link to "mydramalist" because

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Ah, I do not think it is a good idea to backtrack so quickly, for now we should stick to my above suggested edit as it presents a lot healthier. As for singles: the XXXX in South Korean music articles were far too crowded they are not here to list every song that was released ever. I understand the

2504:

If people are adamant that they believe singles should be included, later on tonight I will go through the pages and add singles back to articles. Title tracks, notes and labels are still not needed, though. I still believe that if an entry doesn't have their own article as of yet they shouldn't be

2127:

I think it's time we clear up these lists, they are getting far too long with un-notable and un-sourced entries. Just to be clear for future reference, what exactly are we including in these pages? Joining/Departing dections completely removed, do we include debuting and departing sections for only

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Heading doesn't mention but the discussion is clearly directed towards idols and their groups. I haven't seen a single actor/actress name in this discussion. Anyway in my opinion not all guest appearances/cameos are obscure. Atleast a few notable ones should be mentioned without completely removing

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I guess you missed the whole point of me suggesting that something of everything should be mentioned without completely removing the sections. Please read it over again just in case. Yes either it's featuring or appearing it should be judged case-by-case without generalizing as there always will be

1712:

Personally, I don't see why there should be a difference if they're an actor or no longer an idol- a guest appearance on a show is still just a guest appearance on a show and does little to nothing for their career. Actors will be mostly known for their acting roles, not 's/he was in episode 293 of

1518:

Appearances may be moved to their own category, but a vote can be made that this is simply moving material from one place where it should not be, to another place where it should not be, as such material is most likely considered not notable enough to appear on Knowledge (XXG), and therefore should

1219:

Let me also reiterate that all removal of variety show appearances should be clearly marked with an edit summary linking to this page, so people can have a say in the matter, and so wikipedians that are not discouraged by unexplained reversions of their edits, as have been the case on several pages

1171:

who both topped the charts with old songs after appearing on the show. Given the amount of space that is spent on chart positions, those appearances are surely not inconsequential? While some appearances may be inconsequential to an artist's career, I feel like removing all variety show appearances

735:

Please if you are looking to format all kpop artists pages please consider the people putting efforts to keep the fan base updated with all the information. Respect individual pages. Whether its notable guest appearances or not some wants to know. Please understand that some fanaccounts are putting

98:

The topic of completely removing variety show appearances from K-pop groups/idols/artists has been discussed a lot recently and I think it is about time we had a proper conclusion or consensus on the matter. It is extremely common for South Korean artists to appear and promote on variety shows such

2748:

I don't know if this is the place to mention, but there is alot of editing to be done on Jonghyun's page on Simple English Knowledge (XXG) and SHINee's. It hasn't been updated since 2009 (SHINee's) and Jonghyun's section hasn't really been edited until very recently (to announce he died.) A little

1674:

Sorry, there seems to be some miscommunication here. What I said has nothing to do with 'popularity' at all. It's about relevance. When IU featured G-Dragon, that was mentioned on both pages, because G-Dragon was also an artist for the song itself. It wasn't a simple acting gig, he was part of the

1651:

My point is artists who no longer are idols but became complete actors/actresses should be excluded from this list which is all about present idols. So those who are trying to remove their shows sections kindly refrain from doing so as once an idol is not forever an idol and still if they do so it

1632:

Hi! I can't speak to actor's pages, because I don't actually know any actors. I don't think I could name 5 actors, actually. But as for MV appearances: very few people ever shoot to fame solely on their appearance in somebody else's MV. Due to an appearance they may be offered other opportunities,

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I'm late to the discussion, but it makes sense. These are simply individual TV appearances, which we note for no other kind of subject in Knowledge (XXG), unless maybe it's wrestling, which is likewise plagued by the idea that everything that the internet links is noteworthy. These articles aren't

1430:

Hi all, just wanted to point out that this policy should not be blindly applied to all groups, especially the less popular groups who barely get opportunities to promote on variety shows (like DAY6). Removing the group's filmography records just make it more difficult for new fans to check out the

3378:

Okay, I am in the wrong also for this. Basically this is my commitment, I will not add Viu and that's it. I am of the concern that discussion is too narrow, with only 2 editors commentating which yes, more commentators is key. I am a little concern of veteran editors as what is your definition of

3357:

Quek157. I don't want to ping you in this problem, for what? For more discussions about this? Sorry I don't have a lot of time to do it and English is also not my major. I would not publish anything in the WikiProject talk page if our discussion above ended at "okay Quek157 (talk) 18:07, 13 April

2667:

No, this was a place were ALL the music were included, and it was very good to search and find for new releases and music. Only Knowledge (XXG) had such a good compilation and useful than any other site. A song/artist not having their own article should not be a reason to delete, because it helps

2178:

This is the worst edit idea I've ever heard. By removing non-article debuting nad disbanding groups because this only adds to Knowledge (XXG)'s well-known reputation of being non-reliable. I say that non-article groups should be added as long as there is at least 1 RELIABLE source. Otherwise they

1616:

Hi. In the beginning of this discussion it is clearly mentioned that the variety show appearances should be removed from K-pop groups/idols/artists. So what about the actors and actresses? Doesn't this apply to them? I guess not as almost every actor and actress has variety shows section in their

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that have fewer pageviews most months, with some spikes, and other groups that have more pageviews every week, just like there are a lot groups or artists that have less. The interest in who guests on variety shows can also been seen on articles that list variety show episodes. The relatively new

1254:

As for TV-Entertainers, again, standard positions in variety shows should be kept absolutely, but even for an entertainer, a single show or episode isn't that notable unless it significantly boosts their career as you were saying with Sechs Kies. But again - if it was a once-off kind of thing, it

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i dont know who gave you the authority to decide or declare whether a page is too clumped or ot. or cared that a page is getting too long. but i do hope you understand how some dont even have updated fanpages like what youre claiming and some just have this to be working on. im not sure why youre

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I agree with most of this and would be happy to make the articles I watch comply. But I just want to add that for cameos, if they should be notable, they must have proper citation to prove notability from at least two news sources. I had someone continually trying to add a cameo role on a page

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You say KoMS is a variety program, not wrong, but in parallel it is also a singing program where the participants (not the panel) should mainly express their vocal skills, not principally their entertaining skills. For someone who are wondering what will participation in the variety show bring to

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frequently and I agree that removal of such appearances is probably the best idea. I, myself feel web-dramas are notable as they are still series' after all, much like series on Netflix/Hulu/Amazon. With KoMS I am unsure whether to class it as a competition or a variety show, usually participants

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What you've suggested here looks much much cleaner than when you scroll further down - you can really see the difference now, wow. Thank you for this! Since seeing this, I agree even more with your suggestion. As for soundtrack releases which are often listed, they're singles right? I think they

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in fairness though, the reasoning is exactly the same. I’m both cases it’s simply a guest appearance which isn’t significant to their career. I’ve done it myself to an actors page and referred to this page, the only difference is one person is a singer and one is an actor but how much it adds to

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While it's true that many groups use guest appearances as a part of their promotional cycle, there's a reason for that. It impact their sales, and it's a way for groups to gain popularity, and considering just under 40 variety shows are currently subtitled and licensed outside of South Korea for

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member changes are relevant to the groups, but they’re not relevant/notable to SK music as a whole therefore they’re not relevant to list, especially considering that member changes are quite common. Secret doesn’t really change that, they’re not the first group to have member changes and legal

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I also think that all of the pages on this subject (2005 - 2017) should be massively cleaned up. "Debuting" and "disbanding" sections mostly all need referencing, along with majority of the releases listed in each year. There are also links in various years which are linking to pages that don't

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Many variety shows are used as promotional tools, not unlike a performance on a music show, a local photo shoot or a CF. To say these activities are on par with releasing an album that makes money or a world tour is a stretch. As these do not add notability to an artist's career, they should be

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on its relevance. Also, for example, IMDb lists even a 5 minute appearances on shows like Extra, Good Morning America and Late Sow(s) under the category “Self”. I don’t see any benefit of such deletion, especially when done in a consistent and systematical way (table at the end of the article).

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Hi, I don't quite know how to transverse naver site for ratings, the AGB nelson site is down since today "Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80004005'SQL Server does not exist or access denied./Include/Ado.asp, line 8". How shall we find ratings for korean shows on AGB now? Thanks

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chanced upon this page. I am the "an user", not very courteous for not pinging me here. I already say UNEQUIVOCALLY I will not add. Knowledge (XXG) works on consensus and then i agreed to your POV, consensus = not add on the page (1 oppose / 1 abstained - me). So then why need someone else to

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A "REAL" encyclopedia never includes millions of details. It describes what is notable and reliably sourced. That's why we don't have a listing of every pizza restaurant, every person's second cousins, and lists of your favorite colors. Your definition of encyclopedia is not Knowledge (XXG)'s

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who has stated he wants to join a weekly variety show, and is currently making the rounds as a guest to make that happen. When an idol makes a career for themselves in TV, they're also entertainers, and their entertainment history will have more importance for their career than a random guest

2142:

I agree with removing the joining and departing sections completely and only including artists with their own articles in the debuting and disbanding sections. As for the releases, I think we should only list entries that are sourced and for only artists/albums that have their own articles?

3581:. This article has been nominated for 7 months without any reviews, and is the most popular in this WikiProject. If you have any spare time, please consider reviewing this article so we can move this along. If you are a first time GA reviewer, you are able to find instructions and guidance 3407:

instead of using Template:Interlanguage link for an article which is already existed in other language Knowledge (XXG) but not yet in English Wikipeda; or using Allkpop, Soompi or the similar websites as references instead of other reliable sources. Kenny htv (talk) 22:56, 29 April 2018

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As for any fan-based queries to things such as relevance to fandom or popularity - Knowledge (XXG) is first and foremost an objective encyclopedia with its own rules and regulations. Even though the K-Pop section is most likely to be edited by a majority of K-Pop fans, that doesn't turn

2101:

I've been hesitant to clear these pages as someone will "crybaby" about it - by-and-large a list of non-notable artists becomes a sprawling trivial mess. Knowledge (XXG) isn't here to document every particular group and their happenings (forming, disbanding, losing members). Pages like

3500:

Hi, a general question about TNmS rating. TNmS have stopped publishing their rating report since June 2018. I am wondering how do some editors are still able to get the TNmS ratings in some of the Korean variety/drama shows? Does anyone has any ideas? Kindly share if any.

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is clear about creation of lists meeting notability requirements - and the Knowledge (XXG) is a encyclopedia and not a directory. It should be particularly be used here as lists of hundreds of non-notable groups and albums is not something that we should standardize here.

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never have an article. Debuting groups can be marked in the table somehow (using marking method like "#" or "§", look at some featured lists), there is no need to list them separately since all new groups are already listed in the table, debuting = releasing an album / ep.

770:. Knowledge (XXG) is not a database of variety shows to "keep the fan base updated with all the information", you can use some forums or fanpages dedicated to the group for finding a list of every single minor interview on a TV show. Did you even see how long the page at 1847:. I'd like to invite other editors to take a look and to add their opinions to the subject. I'm posting this here in the hopes of involving other editors who may not have been aware of the article, and to gain as much insight from others as possible. Thanks in advance, 3169:

Personally, I don't mind if you want to delete it, I added it cause I thought it could help with the variety show appearances that are not allowed on Knowledge (XXG) or in Chinese articles with no other English databases to find info from. Per the External links rules

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group's content. I think that such deletions are unhelpful and may even be detrimental. I am of the opinion that groups like DAY6 is the exception, and if in the future they become more popular and goes on numerous variety shows, this situation be can relooked at. Hi

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for you question about how to solve the problem and suggesting to delete everything, I dedicated a big part of my previous post on this page to explain why I think deleting everything is not a good course of action considering there are better alternatives at hand.

2834:, "What can normally be linked: An article about a book, a musical score, or some other media should link to a site hosting a legally distributed copy of the work, so long as none of the § Restrictions on linking and § Links normally to be avoided criteria apply?" 2726:(EDIT: If you guys can, can you also either strike out some more redundant information, maybe add anything that is needed, or do the deleting of the striked out information yourselves in the proposal as I kind of need guidance on what to remove in the article)... 1527:

into relevant data. Information is valued when it brings significance or clarifying detail to an artist's career or the timeline of that career. Otherwise, while it may be interesting to read, Knowledge (XXG) isn't the place to put such information. You can see

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joining and departing as well unneeded. For now i think we didn't need to change everything. And why VAV's single didn't include on list? i want to adding it but i need to confirm in here before input as soon as posible rather than delete by another curator.

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section, whether main cast or guest, removed from Knowledge (XXG) would not be a bad idea. But there are factors and exceptions to be considered for each case (Regular cast/MC/radio host on a variety show), so I won't put too much arguments into this. --

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The discussion of the encyclopedic value of articles, in my opinion, should also include the users of discussed pages. Though I could in no terms be described as a “fan”, I find the information on all TV appearances, including their type and frequency,

2879:

Everyone made very clear last year the XXXX in American Music should be used as a model for XXXX in South Korean Music. But on XXXX in American Music, they have a hiatus section. Would that be something to think about adding to XXXX in South Korean

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I know that you’re far more experienced within wikipedia and with the rules and guidelines than I am myself, so I’m more than happy to follow your suggestions. For now I’ll continue to (slowly) search for references for the current releases listed.

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I agree that removal is selective, I already stated in the first reply that being a "contestant" is not notable though. Like King of Mask Singer – this is a music-based variety show and not the real competition. The real competitions are shows like

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might be a popular variety show and can be notable in itself, but what's useful about having a ? The point is, do any of these appearances add any notable milestone in a particular artist's career? If not, there is no need for it to be mentioned at

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Personally I do agree with the suggested removal, but in condition with what the others above me have suggested as well. Having categories as Abdotorg suggested or expanding the show's pages as Lonedirewolf mentioned are a reasonable alternative.

2998:'s article, and an admin has protected the article until consensus is reached. If any editors could take a quick look through the recent history and add their input to help reach a consensus on the matter it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, 2683:

Knowledge (XXG) isn’t a directory to be used how you’re describing. There are other websites with lists of releases, plus more than what Knowledge (XXG) previously included. Literally all you have to do is use this magical thing called “google”.

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As far as I can tell, there's a number of sources that he self-describes himself as feminist and some criticism whether he could be allowed to do so. And the whole controversy is getting removed and other sources that call him "anti-feminist"

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articles like - I suggest dropping the title, notes and label columns, while also dropping digital singles from the list entirely to only include releases that are either studio albums, extended plays or single albums (things you may consider

682:, with sources backing up the claim that it was his appearance on a variety show that made him famous. Thsis, however, should not be reasoning to keep variety appearances in the filmography section of every little idol out there. You know how 1322:

is a good example of how I am suggesting it should be solved for entertainers. If you look at their discography on the main article for the band, only the most important stuff is included. The rest of the discography is added to a separate

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appearance would for a full-time music idol. A guest appearance on a small show would the have about as much impact as an uncharted single would for an idol, and a guest appearance on bigger shows would be like a charted single so to speak.

1008:, out-ranking and out-selling several big idol groups. Another example is Infinite Challenge, a long-running variety show that occasionally does music projects. One of their music festivals is listed #9, #22, #37, #48 & #56 in the 2266:

as usual) then they are therefore notable enough to be a part of the XXX in South Korean music articles. With this in mind it is completely acceptable to remove names and releases of musical artists that do not meet these guidelines.

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I agree with the removal, but not for shows like King of Mask Singer where artists participate in what is technically still a competition. As for the minor appearances on these variety shows, we could just expand the shows' pages.

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Then in that case, as I can see, there may or may not be a typo. See, you typed 2017 in South Korean Music. I think you were looking for 2017 in Biased Opinions, unless I'm sure society is all about what's popular now, and what's

1454:. It's whether listing such appearances are necessary on Knowledge (XXG) at all. Does this information give the average reader an overall picture of the notability of the group? Or are these instances just important to the fans - 1458:? I believe this are much more "indiscriminate collections of information" that is not necessary for Knowledge (XXG). This isn't IMDB and other fan wikis; there is no need to create a resume for every single artist appearance. 2819:, and MyDramaList don't stream, they are just databases which provide more info. However, Viu is not. Isn't this considered advertisement? You don't see other TV series articles linking directly to streaming websites such as 3366:

Because English is your major, not mine. So, for me to understand well in the next time, please write in common English and avoid as much as possible to abbreviate. Thank you very much! Kenny htv (talk) 22:07, 29 April 2018

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Yes, variety show appearances should be removed as stated. MCing roles on music shows should also be excluded, as it is thrown on pretty much everyone at some point. Roles in web dramas should be allowed. Categories should

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but I refused it. It seems my answer is not convincing and he still has the intention to add the website link (on someday). Can someone help me to discuss with him? It's good if you can take a look and directly discuss in

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only ever grant a prize of public affinity, making their goals as a variety show their main goals, and therefore they should be removed. This also includes 'music-based' variety shows, as their core goal is essentially

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Also, for Abdotorg's argument about western artists such as Rihanna not having guest appearances listed, I want to point out that several western artists, including Rihanna actually have guest appearances listed on her

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suggests. Not all but some information must include in their page, artists as Participants i think it can allows but for guest or small appareance not include i think no problem. for radio shows i'm not agree it can

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songs are also likely to be in a compilation album once Season 2 is complete, as Season 1 was. I also will not list OST singles. OST's can be listed once the complete OST album is released once the drama is

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This with the exception of long-term MC roles or judge panel roles, which should be mentioned on the relevant member's own page in the filmography, or in the main body of text of the main article under the

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they chart on Gaon's album chart - this is to take into account that some "single albums" are essentially just one track and it's instrumental version, which fails to meet Gaon regulations for an album.

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and maintaining the external link templates they created for "mydramalist." This is definitely a conflict of interest (again) and undermines wikipedia's integrity on its articles. (see their templates

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terms of content, so of course, there are people who know and respect the rule alongside with the others who doesn't know or doesn't want to respect the rule. This is the same case of using the form

850:. It doesn't matter how muych work you put into compiling something if it is against the rules. This is a community here, with established rules, and not a free blog where you can write whatever. 85: 73: 68: 63: 1983:

sections are un-needed, as they do not seem to add much to the category of article at all, other than another huge list of things which can easily be seen at the artists main article. As for the

1356:. If you look at the page view statistics for that wikipedia article, it has between 7,800 and 9,200 pageviews every month. In comparison the month with the most views over the past year for the 670:

frequently. Usually one MC-ing role lasts for at least one whole season or even longer. That should count as part of one's significant filmography, especially if there are sources to back it up.

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I don't know who did it, but to the guy who suggested removing singles and labels from releases, I say thank you because it was such a burden to find singles from releases over 10 years ago. :)-

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had over 216,000 pageviews last month, which is probably a spike, but even its first month had more pageviews than most months for Sistar & Super Junior's discography pages. The much older

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Add me to the list in agreement with Abdotorg's proposal. Unless they have a major role in the show throughout the season, there is no reason to include guest appearances just to fill up space.

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I've written a longer, more detailed argument further down this page, but I just wanted to point out that several western artists, including Rihanna have guest appearances listed on a separate

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I do disagree with you on the "Note" column and "debuting" list however. It can be useful to know what is actually being released, and I think we have to remember that Korean music release

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were listed after a fil promotion? It would look ridiculous. Variety show appearances are like interviews and other media appearances. If an appearance is significant for whatever reason,

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Agree with Chiyako92. In addition, if a member has an individual notable work but still doesn't have his/her own article, it can be added on the 'Members' section in a sentence form. See

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new groups) this content alone takes up a large portion of the article itself. Is a one-off guest appearance on a TV show really notable enough to be included in an encyclopedic article?

2016:

Why is there "(released MM DD, 2017)" written in the table next to the album name? In the first column in the table there is already a date of release, so this is completely not needed.

662:

Agree that it should be removed from filmography and also as independent sections. Notable appearances on variety shows (like Running Man guesting) can be mentioned in one line in the

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In short, the vast majority of variety show appearances often added to articles are not considered notable according to Knowledge (XXG) guidelines, and therefore should be removed.

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be the alternate outlet, as you will just be moving the problem from article content to category content. Additionally, there is a long-standing precedent against these categories:

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member, such as host for ICSYV). For idols, music is important when they are in a group but it's not everything, survival or not in the entertainment industry is also their career.

977:(averaging just over 1%) is somehow deemed more important than their numerous full-episode appearances on shows more popular and more viewed than Entourage, or their appearances 935:

Another thought is most of the variety shows, whether being guested or main cast by a particular artist, are primarily used as a promotional tool to promote them. For example,

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To counter the backlash that is constantly seen when removal of variety shows is issued, we could consider creating participant categories (eg. , , , etc.) similar to and .

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Just posting to say I agree to removal of such sections, as others have stated. It is pure fluff and isn't necessary. Categories are perfectly reasonable as Abdotorg stated.

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PLEASE DONT ADD SINGLES AGAIN!!! (Seriously, I wrote 1998-2005 in South Korean Music, and you dont know what a burden it is to look up singles from nearly 20 years ago ;_;)-

21: 553:, create the participant categories and add for artist who have a guest appearance (for only one episode, or few episodes but non consecutive) on a show. I also agree with 3582: 2128:

artists with their own article? And what about for the releases? I'm still not too familiar with the rules of this so I don't want to suggest something that isn't right.

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that have proved to be incredibly popular, but come from entertainment labels that have no pages on Knowledge (XXG). I tried writing for one, (Danal ENtertainment here:

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have been far more consistent in listing only artists that already have articles (presumably notable enough to keep them) - yes I know I've helped enforce some of that.

2013:"Label" and "Note" column in the table is not needed, and there should be only albums and EPs listed (including repackages and stuff), and not digital singles I think. 989:'s page, the removal of content has been done without referring to this discussion, and that is just discouraging for anyone who wants to contribute to wikipedia. 296:

Regular cast on a variety show (needs to be an indefinite period, not appearing on 3-4 episodes in a row as a pre-planned guests, because that is still a guesting)

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You really ruined the article on the 2017 releases in South Korea. It was very well structured and helped the fans. Now it's useless and it doesn't help anyone.

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The thing is that even if some variety show guest appearances maybe be inconsequential to an artist's career, there are a lot of them are not. The only reason

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shouldn't be on wikipedia. Just because there is a reliable source stating that the group debuted doesn't make it notable and worthy of being in an article.

2629: 1713:(variety show name.) Inclusion is great, but don't forget that Knowledge (XXG) isn't their resume, it's not here to list everything they've done but what's 2434:

A Knowledge (XXG) article on Korean popular music in 2017 that doesn't list Twice's "Likey". Congratulations, you have unquestionably FAILED as an editor.

1902:

I think this place is the most watched page for tistory image uploaders, so as I did while ago, I'd use this page for some tips on tistory blog uploading.

2306:, Alexanderlee and Abdotorg are correct. If the band is not notable to have an own article, it should not be included in that list (or any other list). 3216:

has created an account just to discuss removing the template. As I said before, I have no issue with it getting deleted if Wiki believes it is against

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I agree with removing guest appearances, keeping contestant roles and cameos in movies and dramas, and creating categories like Abdotorg suggested. --

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should only be listed once a complete compilation album is released for the drama, but only if the drama has an article. Would you say this is fair?

1593:, I think I've removed it too many times to continue doing so, if someone could suggest what to do or how to resolve this I'd appreciate it. Thanks, 2103: 2758: 2743: 3149:. The external links to MyDramaList also are added on Knowledge (XXG) actors/performers pages. With the link count there at 59. Unbelievable. 3068:

was reprimanded for "conflicts of interest" pertaining to website "mydramalist" and their edits. Around June, 2017 or November, 2017 the user

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slightly different to how it all is in the Western world. Going by what you said, "debuting = releasing an album / ep." this would mean that

2669: 2509:'s Every Day6 release I won't list those - they will all be included in the full album in December, as the first half of the year was with 1189:

Also, similar to idols that turns to acting, there are a lot of idols that end up making a career for themselves in TV entertainment, like

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basically follows the two Jung sisters around for a short period of time and honestly doesn't give any important info about their career.

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I noticed recently that there has been a lot of articles that link to Viu streaming pages. Is that allowed? Other external links such as

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1b: An artist is a member of a group – the group makes a guest appearance on a show, but it is listed on individual member(s) article(s).

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Lead role/supporting role/cameo (only if credited) in a drama (is "web drama" notable?), movie, sitcom, TV series (not a variety show).

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I left a message discussing this on your talk page, but perhaps this is the more appropriate forum to point this out instead. Thanks!

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I do need help, moreso with what you guys think should be (or shouldn't be, per say) in the Death Section of the Jonghyun article...

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was 138KB when downloaded from /image/, but /original/ is about 1MB. This is a rough example and file's size differs file by file.

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there will always be exceptions and if a variety show appearance boosted someone's career in a significant manner, that should be

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time and effect on this. If you want to make a page on your own feel free to do so but please dont bother individual profiles.

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those appearance mentioned above needs to be deleted as those guesting apps adds nothing to their careers, its a fancruft thing.

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page (Hee-chul's group) is 4,616 pageviews. In other words, almost half. That is just one example. There are other groups like

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explain? I never once say in the page that your response is non convincing. What is my intention to add website link? Look at

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view of "'s digital single is too significant to miss out" and this can definitely be addressed in some other way, similar to

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Knowledge (XXG) prioritises notability over anything else - if a musical artist is notable enough to have an article (per

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Shows which are competitions or variety shows that only ever have one episode, such as anniversary programs or items like

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MyDramaList is easily an unreliable website since its content is user-generated, all links probably needs to be removed.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive250#Do_we_report_celebrity_dating.3F

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As for only listing albums and EPs, I disagree with this too. I do think singles should be included too. For example,

1451: 3301: 1843:'s article, but fail to see the notability. I've added the notability tag to the article, and left a message on the 2948: 1940: 1276:

I do also agree that VS removals should be linked back here though, since this is after all the hub of the debate.

42: 2285: 1688: 1004:, which was not dedicated to a girl group project like the second season was, released a single that is listed in 2148: 1987:

section I think references should be applied to artists who are not yet of notability to have their own article.

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Let's keep the singles off the year articles. However, you can always put in the See also those lists such as

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I've asked for a few other editors' inputs and this is the last I shall say until they've shared their input.

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path instead of just downloading the image from the tistory blog. original keeps the original file, while

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If you are recording and retelling history, and you leave out a million details, it's not that accurate.-

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of the article, but as an appearance on a show in and of itself it is not notable, and should be removed.

305:– Does this counts as a guesting, or is being "contestant" in a variety show notable enough for mention? 3562:. If JTBC has a new show but you don't know the title in English, you can count on them as a reference. 3467: 3295:

Is a South Korean program airing on Viu (Singapore) considered as an (official) international broadcast?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:CherryPie94/Archive_1&diff=prev&oldid=819263403

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among others, I'd argue that the popularity of variety shows is enough in itself to warrant inclusion.

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Kenny htv Yes, I agree with all you mention. Let's try to improve articles together! In Korean "끝". --

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I'll go more with Abdotorg's proposal, but at the same time, I think Lonedirewolf's own is also good.

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It's not a question of popularity - Knowledge (XXG) is not a platform for advertisement or promotion

625: 571: 471: 3563: 1872:, I think we should create a discussion here to reach a consensus on this subject. Also looking at [ 1436: 959:

I don't quite get some of the reasoning here, and want to present some arguments, and a suggestion.

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Why did we get rid of those again? It appears they are more necessary than we think as proved from

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Every TBA should be either deleted or marked as a hidden text for now (using the "

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An user asked me about adding the Viu website as an international broadcast in Singapore for page

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I know these changes may take a while to complete, but I do think they will improve these pages.

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Applying this same logic to western artists for better understanding: you do not see artists like

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be because of title tracks occasionally being released as a single before the album? (Such as in

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Kim Hee-chul is one of the few idols-turned-entertainers I'm aware of that already have his own

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of the article. However, long-lasting mC roles on music shows should be kept. MCs don't change

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So I've come around noticing that there are several popular K-pop groups mentioned here like

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will also remove a lot of information that does in fact have an impact on an artist's career.

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What about being an MC on one episode, should this be included or is this guesting as well ?

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Also, what about groups like Akmu that only have 1 to no operating members due to military?-

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These articles aren't here to list every single non-notable thing that happens within K-pop.

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There are several types of variety shows additions in Kpop articles here on Knowledge (XXG):

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It works for me, maybe it was a temporary error or a problem with your internet access. ~~

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should really be included in the main text of an article, and not divided from its context.

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feeling the need to clear these pages when its someone elses hard work that your deleting

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I also agree with Abdotorg's suggestion. Creating categories would be a better option. -

2855:* primarily exist to sell products or services - even if free, it is a streaming service 2050:-Thank you for your inputs. Regarding the "(released MM DD, 2017)", I think that could 338:

only appear on a couple of episodes, so it is most likely not notable enough for filmog.

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created over 250 external links from wikipedia movies/drama series pages to mydramalist

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I am requesting assistance in the form of a GA reviewer for the article I nominated,

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Minor issue – dates should be written without "0" at the beginning (02 August --: -->

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debuted in 2016, while their official debut was actually in 2017, I agree more with

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There's noticeable difference in file size and (possibly) resolutions. For example,

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2b: An artist make a solo guest appearance on a show, it is listed on it's article.

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Allow me to summarize the majority of points made by those supporting the removal:

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I understand that users have worked hard contributing to those lists (especially

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for variety show appearances, to remove a bunch of categories for variety shows.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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edit wars. Still, it confuses me a bit, so what is the overall argument about?-

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I agree that TBA listings should be marked as hidden, as with your reasoning. -

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add no notability to artists or their careers, and therefore should be removed.

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that everyone need to follow. You and other fans included. Knowledge (XXG) is

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The only problem I see is with "contestant" role; one of the many examples is

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2a: Full-group guest appearance on a variety show, listed in group's article.

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yupp resolved, out if topic, ratings seems low nowadays , spring time maybe

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For your consideration, I've put an articles for deletion discussion up on

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who first suggested that, but I do believe it improves the article overall

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is active as a group at the moment is because of their guest appearance on

3589:. Please consider assisting in improving the quality of this WikiProject. 3327: 1495:

Competitions should be afforded due respect: however competitions such as

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In my opinion this is not relevant, also companies do not often announce

2449:“Likey” is from the album “Twicetagram”, which IS listed in the article. 466:

I also think creating categories as Abdotorg suggested is a good idea. --

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Here are some links to previous discussions which I find to be notable:

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I've recently seen dating news being removed from articles, and seeing

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You DO realize that in a REAL encyclopedia, they don't do that right?-

846:. It's an encyclopedia. maybe before you make accusations, you should 195:

etc. having long lists of minor appearances listed on their articles.

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resumes, and these shows aren't the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show.

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It's all user generated on mydramalist. I just noticed this as well

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requesting that it be speedily deleted from Knowledge (XXG). The

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where "Week" was released before the rest of the album in July.)

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exist, or some which have articles and haven't been linked to.

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Hello editors. There is currently a content dispute/edit war at

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Damn, that is the biggest edit war I've seen. And I've started

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Guest and one-off appearances are repeatedly being re-added to

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A lot of changes have been going on recently to pages such as

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ranged between 50,000 - 103,000 pageviews over the past year.

557:, do not remove their appearance on a music-variety show like 29: 981:

where the appearance is also released a single afterwards.

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in on other articles of this type to avoid edit clashes.

2002:

Quick review of the article and what could be improved:

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Talk:Seventeen (band)#Adding variety show to filmography

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that are both established in TV entertainment, or like

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page. This list also includes entertainment shows like

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How about opening up separate filmography pages, like

575:... and other appearances as a cast member such as on 3383:. Let individual editors use their wisdom for Viu. -- 3072:

changed their name. All of this can be seen here on

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On April 7, 2017 a tag was placed on wikipedia page

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WP:OVERCAT#Performers by series or performance venue

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spamlinks to mydramalist from same user CherryPie94

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So do we remove it from American sections as well?-

281:What should be listed in "Filmography" section per 2803:Should Viu be allowed to post their link on pages? 2786:https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Danal_Entertainment 834:"who gave you the authority" -- Knowledge (XXG)'s 1905:When downloading images from Tistory, try to use 2974:issues and they unfortunately won’t be the last 1839:Hello fellow editors, I've recently come across 1016:foreign audiences, on official platform such as 1717:, and guest appearances simply aren't notable. 642:User:Good Olfactory/CFD#Reality TV participants 174:Talk:NU'EST#Requesting removal of variety shows 3533:Kenny htv, thank you very much on the advice. 3328:https://en.wikipedia.org/My_Love_from_the_Star 3095:Category:MyDramaList title ID same as Wikidata 2608:List of Gaon Digital Chart number ones of 2011 3099:Category:MyDramaList title ID not in Wikidata 2875:Hiatus section on XXXX in South Korean Music? 985:far, like you can see in the history tab for 8: 3585:. You may begin a GA review of this article 3147:Category:MyDramaList name ID not in Wikidata 450:Same opinion as Chiyako92 right above me. -- 293:Regular, fixed MC/host on any variety show. 3551:Problem with naming JTBC shows in English? 2541:2017_in_American_music#Top_songs_on_record 798: 737: 164:Talk:Ladies' Code#Additional TV Apperances 149:Talk:Red Velvet (band)#Filmography section 2764:Category pages for lesser-known companies 2715:Talk:Kim Jong-hyun (singer)#Death section 2353:you can see what I suggest we format the 1692:thumb is that their inclusion is trivia. 1006:81st in the gaon download charts for 2016 3496:How to find ratings for shows now (TNmS) 3212:I'm finding something weird about this. 2104:List of South Korean idol groups (2010s) 144:Talk:Im_Yoon-ah#Variety show appearances 3438:How to find ratings for shows now (AGB) 1960:What are some other opinions on this? - 159:Talk:Twice (band)#Reality/Variety shows 2899:so I feel as if it is not worthwhile. 2707:I hope you all had a great Christmas. 1551:THANK YOU! That is great explanation! 838:give us the authority. You know, this 48:Do not edit the contents of this page. 18:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Korea 3610:AFD: List of South Korean girl groups 3083:Since the wikipedia username change, 169:Talk:Pristin#Removal of Variety Shows 7: 2990:Requesting help reaching a consensus 2859:So no, I think they are not allowed 2699: 94:Eradication of variety show sections 3344:Appended this response on the page 3060:page was created by wikipedia user 2849:I believe it fails on two terms of 2718:MY Proposal for what to remove (as 1371:List of Infinite Challenge episodes 119:etc. On some articles (for example 3064:. On April 8, 2017 wikipedia user 2729:Please do let me know! Thank you. 2724:User:Tibbydibby/JonghyunDeathDraft 979:Immortal Songs: Singing the Legend 975:Entourage (South Korean TV series) 28: 3220:. However, what is weird is that 1923:Merry Christmas then! — regards, 848:read the guidelines and the rules 563:or other similar program such as 3616:List of South Korean girl groups 692:it should be in the article body 154:Talk:2PM#videography/filmography 33: 3618:. Please feel free to comment. 2700:Jonghyun's Death Section: Help? 2027:Needs more sources, obviously. 891:for some reason i'm agree with 3346:Talk:Let's Eat Dinner Together 3308:Talk:Let's Eat Dinner Together 2096:20:29, 10 September 2017 (UTC) 2043:19:58, 10 September 2017 (UTC) 1997:19:28, 10 September 2017 (UTC) 1970:19:17, 10 September 2017 (UTC) 1895:Random tip for tistory uploads 686:'s article would look like if 333:I have seen it referred to as 1: 3628:00:48, 11 February 2019 (UTC) 3605:07:52, 13 December 2018 (UTC) 3568:18:49, 10 December 2018 (UTC) 3558:has a sales department named 3543:02:42, 12 November 2018 (UTC) 3529:22:07, 11 November 2018 (UTC) 3511:06:58, 4 September 2018 (UTC) 2759:22:16, 30 December 2017 (UTC) 2744:19:02, 28 December 2017 (UTC) 2694:17:01, 28 December 2017 (UTC) 2678:16:51, 28 December 2017 (UTC) 2662:14:49, 12 November 2017 (UTC) 2284:definition of encyclopedia - 1930:15:42, 24 December 2017 (UTC) 1890:17:48, 18 December 2017 (UTC) 1857:01:31, 28 November 2017 (UTC) 1824:19:59, 16 November 2017 (UTC) 1802:19:42, 16 November 2017 (UTC) 1778:19:28, 16 November 2017 (UTC) 1727:13:47, 16 November 2017 (UTC) 1702:12:17, 16 November 2017 (UTC) 1662:07:25, 16 November 2017 (UTC) 1643:22:46, 15 November 2017 (UTC) 1627:18:01, 15 November 2017 (UTC) 1367:List of Knowing Bros episodes 1068:The X Factor (U.S. TV series) 762:This is a perfect example of 2938:21:39, 4 February 2018 (UTC) 2924:21:39, 4 February 2018 (UTC) 2909:18:41, 4 February 2018 (UTC) 2890:17:59, 4 February 2018 (UTC) 2869:06:52, 23 January 2018 (UTC) 2844:08:40, 22 January 2018 (UTC) 2646:08:03, 6 November 2017 (UTC) 2630:01:31, 6 November 2017 (UTC) 2601:23:30, 5 November 2017 (UTC) 2587:21:08, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2568:18:33, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2553:18:13, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2530:16:58, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2493:16:06, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2474:15:58, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2459:04:15, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2444:04:12, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2425:19:59, 29 October 2017 (UTC) 2400:18:13, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 2372:19:40, 29 October 2017 (UTC) 2341:00:33, 29 October 2017 (UTC) 2326:22:45, 28 October 2017 (UTC) 2297:23:19, 28 October 2017 (UTC) 2277:22:20, 28 October 2017 (UTC) 2252:22:14, 28 October 2017 (UTC) 2234:21:57, 28 October 2017 (UTC) 2220:21:47, 28 October 2017 (UTC) 2205:21:31, 28 October 2017 (UTC) 2189:21:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC) 2170:16:28, 27 October 2017 (UTC) 2153:11:12, 27 October 2017 (UTC) 2138:15:55, 22 October 2017 (UTC) 2123:20:17, 21 October 2017 (UTC) 1603:01:56, 29 October 2017 (UTC) 962:I'm going to start by using 3398:Kenny htv addition response 2943:Joining/Departure Sections? 2798:04:05, 4 January 2018 (UTC) 3643: 3426:23:02, 29 April 2018 (UTC) 3393:22:16, 29 April 2018 (UTC) 3340:21:08, 29 April 2018 (UTC) 3320:22:53, 13 April 2018 (UTC) 3285:20:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC) 3256:19:22, 10 April 2018 (UTC) 2984:07:49, 30 March 2018 (UTC) 2961:06:04, 30 March 2018 (UTC) 1941:2017 in South Korean music 1935:XXXX in South Korean Music 1831: 1578:16:35, 7 August 2017 (UTC) 688:all her tv show apearances 3348:. put here for reference 3302:Let's Eat Dinner Together 3237:17:46, 9 April 2018 (UTC) 3190:16:48, 9 April 2018 (UTC) 3159:23:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC) 3137:10:00, 8 April 2018 (UTC) 3116:07:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC) 3042:07:03, 7 April 2018 (UTC) 3026:00:13, 6 April 2018 (UTC) 3008:17:42, 5 April 2018 (UTC) 2355:XXX in South Korean music 1561:02:39, 15 July 2017 (UTC) 1546:16:56, 14 July 2017 (UTC) 1425:14:40, 30 June 2017 (UTC) 1409:14:21, 30 June 2017 (UTC) 1286:15:13, 30 June 2017 (UTC) 1230:13:45, 30 June 2017 (UTC) 1132:12:26, 30 June 2017 (UTC) 1109:17:37, 29 June 2017 (UTC) 1090:17:18, 29 June 2017 (UTC) 1060:15:44, 29 June 2017 (UTC) 1010:2015 gaon download charts 954:04:30, 21 June 2017 (UTC) 931:03:37, 21 June 2017 (UTC) 910:05:21, 15 June 2017 (UTC) 886:19:21, 14 June 2017 (UTC) 859:09:28, 21 June 2017 (UTC) 817:18:56, 14 June 2017 (UTC) 791:17:09, 14 June 2017 (UTC) 756:16:44, 14 June 2017 (UTC) 731:00:14, 14 June 2017 (UTC) 703:10:33, 12 June 2017 (UTC) 658:00:55, 11 June 2017 (UTC) 630:20:05, 10 June 2017 (UTC) 611:17:04, 10 June 2017 (UTC) 543:15:42, 10 June 2017 (UTC) 521:07:50, 10 June 2017 (UTC) 486:16:41, June 9, 2017 (UTC) 230:15:55, 29 June 2017 (UTC) 3486:18:12, 17 May 2018 (UTC) 3472:11:18, 17 May 2018 (UTC) 2347:Suggested release format 2077:'s suggestion on this. 1845:talk page of the article 1468:05:51, 2 July 2017 (UTC) 1445:05:22, 2 July 2017 (UTC) 1383:00:00, 1 July 2017 (UTC) 1358:Super Junior discography 994:Kim Hee-chul filmography 680:part of the written text 501:19:34, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 476:13:13, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 460:08:47, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 444:08:17, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 429:04:31, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 413:03:37, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 396:02:57, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 371:01:48, 9 June 2017 (UTC) 356:21:03, 8 June 2017 (UTC) 321:19:27, 8 June 2017 (UTC) 205:18:40, 8 June 2017 (UTC) 3453:21:37, 9 May 2018 (UTC) 3412:My additional response 1165:Like Turbo & S.E.S. 973:'s short appearance on 2830:Or does it fall under 2007:2017 in American music 694:, not in filmography. 589:their career, look at 3573:Requesting Assistance 2179:should not be added.- 1918:File:171215 나영 02.jpg 1501:King of Masked Singer 937:Jessica & Krystal 46:of past discussions. 3087:has monitored & 1519:be removed entirely. 1509:The Boss is Watching 1072:Britain's Got Talent 840:place has some rules 509:Twice_(band)#Members 1169:Zion.T & Hyukoh 303:King of Mask Singer 2614: 1880:and for how long. 1497:Idol Championships 1161:Infinite Challenge 1002:Sister's Slam Dunk 715: 245:1a: Articles like 2713:TALK DISCUSSION: 2612: 2479:I believe it was 1975:I agree that the 1532:for more on that. 1452:WP:NOTADVERTISING 1020:, OnDemandKorea, 819: 803:comment added by 758: 742:comment added by 713: 105:After School Club 91: 90: 58: 57: 52:current talk page 3634: 3602: 3601: 3596: 3464: 3277: 3229: 3211: 3204: 3182: 3129: 2972: 2897:official hiatus' 2626: 2620: 2481:User:Snowflake91 2318: 2286:WP:NOTEVERYTHING 2060:Hands on Me (EP) 2035: 1927: 1912: 1908: 1812: 1790: 1766: 1745: 1689:WP:NOTEVERYTHING 1354:filmography page 1325:discography page 1316: 1154: 1082: 1048:Secretly Greatly 878: 833: 783: 727: 721: 677: 655: 650: 535: 442: 394: 392: 385: 313: 218:videography page 215: 82: 60: 59: 37: 36: 30: 3642: 3641: 3637: 3636: 3635: 3633: 3632: 3631: 3612: 3597: 3592: 3591: 3575: 3553: 3498: 3462: 3440: 3297: 3275: 3227: 3205: 3198: 3180: 3123: 3050: 2992: 2966: 2945: 2877: 2805: 2766: 2704:Hello editors! 2702: 2624: 2618: 2312: 2145:Kpopfangirl2013 2029: 1937: 1925: 1910: 1906: 1897: 1877:this discussion 1869:this discussion 1864: 1837: 1806: 1784: 1760: 1739: 1310: 1148: 1076: 872: 827: 777: 725: 719: 671: 653: 646: 529: 436: 388: 381: 379: 307: 272:In my opinion, 209: 113:Hello Counselor 96: 78: 34: 26: 25: 24: 22:Popular culture 12: 11: 5: 3640: 3638: 3611: 3608: 3574: 3571: 3560:JTBC Worldwide 3552: 3549: 3548: 3547: 3546: 3545: 3497: 3494: 3493: 3492: 3491: 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page 794: 793: 633: 632: 616: 615: 614: 613: 591:Hwang Chi-yeul 583: 582: 546: 545: 524: 523: 504: 503: 488: 487: 479: 478: 463: 462: 447: 446: 432: 431: 421:RafaelPPascual 416: 415: 399: 398: 374: 373: 344: 343: 342: 341: 340: 339: 326: 325: 324: 323: 299: 298: 297: 294: 291: 283:WP:FILMOGRAPHY 279: 278: 277: 267: 266: 265: 264: 261: 258: 253: 250: 243: 242: 238: 177: 176: 171: 166: 161: 156: 151: 146: 141: 109:Happy Together 95: 92: 89: 88: 83: 76: 71: 66: 56: 55: 38: 27: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3639: 3630: 3629: 3625: 3621: 3617: 3609: 3607: 3606: 3603: 3600: 3595: 3588: 3584: 3580: 3572: 3570: 3569: 3565: 3561: 3557: 3550: 3544: 3540: 3536: 3532: 3531: 3530: 3526: 3522: 3518: 3515: 3514: 3513: 3512: 3508: 3504: 3495: 3487: 3483: 3479: 3475: 3474: 3473: 3469: 3465: 3459: 3458: 3457: 3456: 3455: 3454: 3450: 3446: 3437: 3427: 3423: 3419: 3415: 3413: 3410: 3406: 3405:English_title 3401: 3399: 3396: 3395: 3394: 3390: 3386: 3382: 3377: 3374: 3372: 3369: 3365: 3363: 3362: 3360:FYI: 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1216: 1215: 1214: 1213: 1212: 1211: 1200: 1196: 1192: 1188: 1187: 1186: 1185: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1181: 1170: 1166: 1162: 1158: 1152: 1147: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1143: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1133: 1129: 1125: 1120: 1119: 1118: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1110: 1106: 1102: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1091: 1087: 1083: 1081: 1080: 1073: 1069: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1057: 1053: 1049: 1045: 1041: 1035: 1033: 1032:My suggestion 1029: 1027: 1023: 1019: 1013: 1011: 1007: 1003: 997: 995: 990: 988: 982: 980: 976: 972: 967: 965: 960: 955: 951: 947: 942: 938: 934: 932: 928: 924: 919: 914: 913: 912: 911: 907: 903: 898: 894: 887: 883: 879: 877: 876: 868: 867: 860: 857: 855: 854: 849: 845: 841: 837: 831: 826: 825: 824: 823: 822: 821: 820: 818: 814: 810: 806: 802: 792: 788: 784: 782: 781: 773: 769: 765: 761: 760: 759: 757: 753: 749: 745: 741: 733: 732: 728: 722: 716: 710: 705: 704: 701: 699: 698: 693: 689: 685: 681: 675: 669: 665: 660: 659: 656: 651: 649: 643: 639: 631: 627: 623: 618: 617: 612: 608: 604: 600: 596: 592: 587: 586: 585: 584: 580: 579: 574: 573: 568: 567: 566:Immortal Song 562: 561: 556: 552: 549:I agree with 548: 547: 544: 540: 536: 534: 533: 526: 525: 522: 518: 514: 510: 506: 505: 502: 498: 494: 490: 489: 485: 481: 480: 477: 473: 469: 465: 464: 461: 457: 453: 449: 448: 445: 441: 440: 434: 433: 430: 426: 422: 418: 417: 414: 410: 406: 401: 400: 397: 393: 391: 386: 384: 376: 375: 372: 368: 364: 360: 359: 358: 357: 353: 349: 336: 332: 331: 330: 329: 328: 327: 322: 318: 314: 312: 311: 304: 300: 295: 292: 289: 288: 287: 286: 284: 280: 275: 271: 270: 269: 268: 262: 259: 257: 254: 251: 248: 244: 241: 236: 235: 234: 233: 232: 231: 227: 223: 219: 213: 207: 206: 202: 198: 194: 190: 189:Ariana Grande 186: 185:Fifth Harmony 182: 181:One Direction 175: 172: 170: 167: 165: 162: 160: 157: 155: 152: 150: 147: 145: 142: 140: 137: 136: 135: 132: 130: 126: 122: 118: 114: 110: 106: 102: 93: 87: 84: 81: 77: 75: 72: 70: 67: 65: 62: 61: 53: 49: 45: 44: 39: 32: 31: 23: 19: 3613: 3598: 3593: 3576: 3554: 3499: 3441: 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991: 983: 968: 961: 958: 940: 936: 917: 902:Fenny novita 897:Lonedirewolf 890: 874: 873: 852: 847: 843: 839: 835: 799:— Preceding 795: 779: 778: 772:Heo Young-ji 738:— Preceding 734: 707:You can use 706: 696: 691: 687: 679: 667: 663: 661: 647: 637: 634: 599:Super Junior 576: 570: 564: 558: 555:Lonedirewolf 531: 530: 511:as example. 437: 389: 382: 345: 334: 309: 308: 273: 256:Individuals: 255: 239: 208: 178: 133: 128: 121:Cosmic Girls 97: 79: 47: 41: 3463:CherryPie94 3371:My response 3276:CherryPie94 3228:CherryPie94 3201:Snowflake91 3181:CherryPie94 3126:Snowflake91 3104:CherryPie94 3085:CherryPie94 3074:CherryPie94 3070:CherryPie94 3066:CherryPie94 3062:CherryPie94 3058:MyDramaList 3054:MyDramaList 2836:CherryPie94 2732:Sincerely, 2720:striked out 2593:Lil' Kaizer 2315:Snowflake91 2032:Snowflake91 1862:Dating news 1747:exceptions. 1681:WP:FANCRUFT 1591:Hong Soo-ah 1525:WP:FANCRUFT 1456:WP:FANCRUFT 1079:Snowflake91 1040:videography 941:Running Man 918:Running Man 875:Snowflake91 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Knowledge (XXG)

talk:WikiProject Korea/Popular culture/Archive 4 - Knowledge (XXG)

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