Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Archive 39

4715:

mid-January or so. I find WPTC's activity really hard to evaluate, largely because the project was so successful from 2005-2008 and again from 2011-2014. Around 2014, myself and a few others got somewhat burnt out, and since then, I've been pretty hit and miss as far as my editing goes, and I think there are many others in the same boat. At least in the past year or so, there seems to be a new guard to have come in and replaced the older generation, and all in all, said new guard has done relatively well and has written much of the content in recent storm and season articles and generally make edits that don't piss me off. With that said, we haven't reached 2011-2014 era levels of productivity either (up to you to decide how problematic that is - most wikiprojects couldn't dream of that level of success we had back then). These goals are a good start to returning to said activity levels, however, although I must emphasis that the focus and effort needs to be outside of the Atlantic, as most articles in that basin are in relatively good shape, and the goals listed above seem to reflect that.

4196:

with other editors, which is why I hope we can rebuild the community of tropical cyclone editors and add to the great work that's already been done. We should be using this space more, fostering discussion about project goals, sharing our resources and knowledge. There have been hundreds of featured articles/lists on the main page of Knowledge (XXG), thanks to dozens of different editors, who I would like to thank for their tireless hours. But there is plenty of more work to be done. We should be using this space more, fostering discussion about project goals, sharing our resources and knowledge. I propose we more formally define project goals, and we find new ways of engaging new editors. The below is a good set of intermediate goals. Feel free to discuss, add, and debate. ♫

3647:

that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. Of necessity, some infoboxes contain more than just a few fields; however, wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content. Avoid links to sections within the article; the table of contents provides that function. " I realize there's a great deal of subjectivity here, but I don't think what year a season shares a record with fits in the "key facts" bit, considering it isn't directly related to the season itself. Furthermore, including the Xth record bit may be useful in prose if sourced, as suggested by

2246:

which are converted from knots and then rounded to the nearest 5. The infobox currently imitates the public advisory: input a value in knots, and the output values are mph and km/h rounded to the nearest 5. Of course, this makes using convert templates a bit problematic: for example, a Category 2 hurricane with 85-knot winds would be reported as 100 mph (155 km/h), but people who don't realise that these winds are actually converted from knots tend to dump 100 mph straight into the convert template, which would give 100 mph (160 km/h) but is not what the NHC states. This could be solved using the syntax

4067:. We have the option to add ongoing A-class reviews to the project template which goes into a category for requested reviews. I also created a transcluded page for a review (this was done by the project in the past; there is an archive). I have seen the military history project add the result of the review to the article history template as well which wouldn't be difficult. I have made this nomination because I want to request an A-class review, but more importantly to educate the project on A-class reviews since they seem to get little attention nowadays. 3124:. After that, I couldn't edit the article any more. It's just a sad, numbing feeling, following so closely an unfolding disaster, seeing the death toll skyrocket, rescue efforts unfold, humanitarian crises, and the dread etc. Thankfully, because this is Knowledge (XXG), the collaborative efforts hundreds of other editors helped expand the article and cover the developing tragedy. There have been 2,137 edits to the article, including some vandalism. On 31: 1164: 4687: 3102: 3340:. "There is no ATCR documentation of the Southern Hemisphere for the years 1981-1984; however, the 1985 ATCR (p. 139) reports totals (24, 25, 25 and 30 TCs per year) which are different than those found in the JTWC Archive. The JTWC Archive (1981-1984) was left as is because we were unable to cross-validate individual TCs." Returning to the original question, I wish to provide the following clarification for the 2467: 3096: 2745:

been done years ago but was lost after some time. This will also mean that these navigational articles will no longer have to be moved if a storm gets the main name. I would like to request permission from the project to go through with moving these articles. The new name would be "List of tropical storms named X". There are already several navigational articles with this naming scheme.

3651:, but I have reservation that said trivia could be consider a "key fact". Yet, despite my arguments, it seems my wisom has not bounced off of other's very well in my 11 years here. The reason this sort of stuff gets under my skin more than anything else is that it starts bad long term editing habits; the lasted thing I want bloating articles with poorly organized and trivial sections. 3162:, to name a few. In a way, the reason I'm on here is because I want to document the storms that cause that dread and awe that tropical cyclones inspire. The world turns to Knowledge (XXG) for information. Too often, our work is done without anyone else knowing or appreciating the countless hours of editing. So, my fellow Wikipedians, I implore you to share your stories. ♫ 249: 1422:

typhoon in January 2001, so it would be listed as a TD and TS for 2000, and a typhoon for 2001. Because it was named in 2000, Souik is not counted as the first storm of the year for 2001, but rather the last storm for 2000. The same goes for storms in the Southern Hemisphere, which are much more common because the near year is right in the middle of the cyclone season. ♫

2517:

upper tier would have higher difficulty). The awards will be based on edits and time served in the project. Awards may only be given by other members of the project (one can't issue an award onto himself). Please feel free to discuss whether this would be worth pursuing or suggest changes. Im only going to post the lower tier for now so discussion on it can take place.

1135:. I wouldn’t be opposed to a mass move for all list articles, as they could be retired similarly, but one batch at a time. The current wording is awkward for longer titles like “List of Baja California Peninsula hurricanes.” I forget what I’m looking at y the time I’ve read what it is the article is describing. The inverse is “Hurricanes in Baja California.” 5071: 3716: 3545: 3490: 3038: 2908: 1262: 957: 2009:(same horizontal row). For this reason, it is not good to round speeds to five-folds. Because: when looked up in a converted unit (say km/h), it might end up in a different class! (Of course the RS has classified correctly, but a reader may be metric-minded and so be more familiar with the other unit column (that is why we add conversions). 231:

Based on what I've read, some of the world's deadliest storms occurred in the early 20th century in eastern Asia, Oceania, and Africa, and we're just scratching the surface documenting what actually happened. Count me in for the task force, on the condition we come up with a cool name like Cyclone Squad... but better.

4721:

want to reach out to me, feel free to do so on every platform/forum I'm active on (here, Storm2k, ect) because, without trying to sound too romantic, the overall pleasant nature of the wikiproject, or at least our core editors, is partially what made editing fun back during the heyday of the project.

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article and as I did so I got a couple of questions about what should go into the final article: a) Should it cover written historical record-based information? b) Should it have a list of sites where paleotempestological research has been carried out, as it currently has? c) The "Techniques" section

3646:

notes tat "When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article (an article should remain complete with its summary infobox ignored). The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves

3421:

Is there any evidence of reliable sources (like Jeff Masters) using Neumann's data? Otherwise, for consistency we should keep using JTWC, or just not list any JTWC intensities (though this would leave open the question of track maps). I don't even know of Neumann's own credentials. If we use Neumann,

2841:

Maybe long term, the best approach is to make the articles by letter. Once they’re all done, everything can be moved over. I’m sure even outside project members would appreciate the better sourcing of a singular list, and the ease of navigation, versus the monstrosity we have now of hundreds of SIAs.

2827:

We still need the redirects to have the correct name. The thing is... longer navigational lists have a lot of resistance from the outside and even some members of this project. Be warned if we go through with this, we will need a consensus to do so. Otherwise, it will simply be reverted by an outside

2250:

which produces 100 mph; 155 km/h, the correct value, but without the km/h in brackets (I believe you tried something similar above?). Though some, including myself, usually forgo the convert templates and just write out the converted and rounded mph and km/h values. Is this the inconsistency that you

1771:

If there's a title that's ambiguous on Knowledge (XXG), we disambiguate that title with a disambiguation page, not redirect it to a longer list. In cases were the ambiguity is limited to a set of topics of a particular type, we forego the disambiguation page for a set index article so that those SIAs

934:

Could some people please help with TD Nineteen-E? This is probably one of the most important TDs in EPAC history. First known TC to form in the Gulf of California. Agricultural damages of $ 41M and flooding damages estimated in the hundreds of millions. I have expanded the article some, but am having

2516:

This proposal is for an awards system for WPTC. We have been discussing ways of trying to promote activity within WPTC recently. I figured that an award system for doing work could motivate some editors to stay active. How it would work is the awards would be divided up into two tiers (basically the

633:

Yeah, we could a Miscellaneous tropical cyclones task force for those. As for timeline task force, I don't think we need one due to individual basin task forces. Actually, I have thought about eliminating the season and storms task forces. They aren't really needed as the individual basin task force

549:

Yeah, but is it worthwhile creating a task force that will have one or two people in it at the start? I don't see a point in creating them now when there isn't enough interest to do so. If a group of 4-5 people want one for a specific basin, it can be discussed. I think it would be better to more or

166:

Im reviving this because I shouldn't have prematurely killed it a few months back based upon a few people who felt it was not worth doing. There are a lot of older/less important articles that need to be improved and there should be an officially designated area for it. Also, I feel we should have a

5047:

I've had a bit of resistance with reverting tracks that had non-synoptic points, mainly for Michael. While 17:30Z had Michael as a cat 5, the NHC had the 18Z point at cat 4. I think to keep tracks consistent we should keep non-synoptic points out if we have valid synoptic data. I'll admit that this

4739:

I, for one, can say that I count fellow project members among my lengthiest acquaintances, ones I've debated with, shared laughs with, and worked on projects with. I've spent time away from the project multiple times, but each time, I feel like there was something I was meant to do. I'm glad to see

4720:

I can't speak for others, but I can say I do intend to keep working on old WPAC typhoons for the forseeable future. I've primarily edited only in that basin since 2013, and remarkably, haven't lost much interest, despite my aforementioned erratic editing patters. On a semi-related note, if you guys

4195:

The project has seen more active days in the past, sometimes arguing ad nauseum (myself included, regretfully) for combining articles, as opposed to the spirit of increasing the number of articles and encouraging improvement over the years. I'm sorry for spending so much time over the years arguing

3670:

To answer my own questions, I’d say activity records should list 2nd most. For worldwide/basin damage/death records, I would include 3rd most. The 3rd costliest Atlantic Hurricane still caused $ 92 billion in damage, that’s a lot. Of course, these all need verification. I generally think we can err

3454:

states that the authors had less confidence in the quality of the older tracks than they have in the newer ones, which while natural, we have to bear in mind that the JTWC did not issue warnings on any tropical cyclone in the SHEM pre-1980. This in my mind makes the data questionable and unreliable

3376:

They shouldn't be for any tropical cyclones pre 1980 since they didnt warn on the systems, the data is not their own, questionable and unreliable. Post 1980, I note that the JTWC are the ones who have designated the systems as xxP/xxS and that their data should be noted for every system, however, I

3335:

This prompts an interesting question which I hope other members of the project can help clarify as to whose data we should accept for 1-minute winds both pre and post-September 1980. Pre 1980, the JTWC did not warn on any tropical cyclones in the Southern Hemisphere and I believe that their BT data

2245:

this is a little convoluted to explain. The National Hurricane Center (our primary RS for hurricane info) provides 1-minute sustained winds in knots, in multiples of 5. They issue several types of advisories, with the one most people read - the public advisory - stating wind speeds in mph and km/h,

1715:

I wasn't able to comment on the AFD as I have been busy with other things over the last few days. Had I have done I would have supported the deletion or redirection of these articles, as I feel it is better to have one main list per letter than 600 odd SIA/DAB articles that are hard to maintain and

1421:

and 2005-06 Atl crossover, it's not included for any stats in 2006, because it reached its highest status in the previous year. If Zeta was a tropical depression that was named in 2006, then it would be mentioned there. To further clarify, Tropical Storm Soulik formed in December 2000, but became a

1012:

I thought I would post this here as a heads up as there maybe a few significant intensity changes including category. Over the next few days, I am going to go through all of the Australian tropical cyclone seasons after 1971-72, to ensure that all of the intensities from the BoM are consistent with

510:

A lot of the basins don't have enough active editors to really warrant individual task forces. AUSR, SWIO, NIO, and SPAC all have a few editors who make content, but nothing compared to the Atlantic and East Pacific. The goal of this task force would be to provide additional help in those basins as

315:

I think the creation of these task forces would be a good idea, allowing for editors most experienced in the respective forces to continue to focus on what they do best. There are still plenty of Atlantic and Eastern Pacific systems which could use better imagery (Using the NOAA CLASS system, which

230:

disrupted recordkeeping, but a lot of the early 1900s don't have good records on Knowledge (XXG), despite readily available info online. It just takes a lot of time to compile. The North Indian Ocean needs season articles in the 60 and 70s, and much of the SWIO needs content for the 60s to the 80s.

3359:

Why is JTWC the be-all-end-all for SHEM storms anyway? They're an American-based warning center. I think we should defer to IBTRACS when we list the maximum 1-minute sustained winds. If we have a reputable source saying a higher 1-minute wind speed (AKA Neumann), then we can go with them. The RSMC

1753:

I agree with Jason Rees, it would be better to have one main list per letter, especially for similar-but-different names. Human memory can be faulty. I think it would be more useful, in cases where the storm doesn't have the main article, to be redirected to a list of each letter, with a dedicated

1458:

Awesome! Great job to you and to all people who keep the season articles up to date. It's important to document every tropical depression, storm, and tropical cyclone with sustained winds of at least 74 km/h (46 mph). One of the things you'll learn (and for anyone else out there who edits) is that

1348:

If storms are in two calendar years, they should be mentioned in both, and only counted for the peak intensity during that year. For example, a tropical depression in December of one year would be included as a TD for that year, but not for the subsequent year, although it would be counted as a C5

4900:

Hopefully in the near future, we can stop using 1980 as a benchmark for pre/post! Satellite imagery began in 1965. We should have good storm coverage back to that point (especially since storms worldwide have been named since the 60s). There are a lot of storms left though, which is why I've been

2744:

All of these navigational articles are not disambiguation pages. They are technically classified as Set Index Articles (SIA for short), which fall under the larger category of lists. Moving all of these articles now will correct the issue with the naming to be in line with lists. This should have

667:

For the sake of having an accurate assessment (on wiki instead of a spreadsheet accessible by IRC only), better management of each basin, and organizing users by area of expertise. The storms and seasons task forces should be disbanded, and the articles of those should be redistributed into these

3426:

reason for the higher value to always be the correct one. Of note should be papers written on southern hemisphere tropical cyclone climatology. Whichever data set is primarily used by them should be the one we use. Also, Phil Klozbach collects ACE statistics; I would think what he uses for these

4714:

I've mostly been sidetracked the past month or so, and I hadn't logged into wiki in like 4-5 days, which is somewhat rare for me, even in the winter, and at this point, I seldom use IRC (which has deviated majorly from its original purpose sadly) so I haven't had much contact with you all since

1842:

I have been aware of Keith's website being down for a while now and from what he's told me its likely to remain that way for a while. It is worth noting that all of the advisories provided by Keith's website were accessible via NOAA's product store, although some were lifted from warning centre

110:

After going through the list of page ratings, I was quite alarmed to see 840 pages or 19.3% of our content either at or below start class. As most of the current task forces work on creating new articles and improving higher priority articles, I would like to propose the creation of the Article

480:

Okay... a lot of the stubs and start class articles need more content in general as well as citations. Each storm section on a season article should have at least a small paragraph written about it. Stub and start class storm articles also need more content and citations. MHs and impacts need

752:

I changed the name because there are many more areas than the ones I mentioned. Full list includes: Within 5° of the equator, Great Lakes, South Atlantic, NE Atlantic, Bay of Biscay, Mediterranean Sea, Black Sea, Gulf of California, SE Pacific, Natuna Sea, Gulf of Thailand, and Gulf of Aden.

4062:

I just wanted to bring this to everyone's attention. Please note that A-class reviews do require at least 2 impartial reviewers per the A-class criteria. Such reviews have been done on the assessment page in the past and I think we should resume doing that. Please note what I have done at

3312:

despite its usage on southern hemisphere seasons, should data from the Neumann database from IBTrACS be used as an alternative to JTWC? some cases of neumann being stronger than JTWC are used here such as Amy 1980 where its listed as a 140kt category 5 storm compared to JTWC's category 3.

3955:

Yes, visually impressive images are important, but that's not all of what is included under the umbrella. Images that are informative are also eligible. One could nominate charts and diagrams. Those aren't visually impressive, but they can become featured pictures just the same.

325:

I would also be fine with joining the task force if necessary. I think it would be good to have a force like this to improve articles that are in dire need of it (NIO and SHEM especially!), as well as images. With this force, the quality of articles can be vastly improved.

2531:

I like this idea, but keeping track of WPTC edits might be tricky. Unless you meant, by edits, overall edits. This is exactly the sort of thing that could encourage some editors, so I’m all aboard. We have a project barnstar btw, but that’s one that can be given whenever.

3105:, because you produced a body of work that is better than anything else online. Other websites make a profit by the millions of hours the thousands of editors have contributed to this project. Sometimes, that includes documenting storms in real time. I'll share my story. 3455:

especially since they say that the BT archive was developed from The NCDC, FNMOC and the ATCF and that they could not check it with any documentation. The same could be said about the era between 1980 and 1985. However, they were in warning and the data was published in

4831:

Didn’t we have the WPTC versions thing we made in like early 2014? That might be worth an update lol. We can probably do 1997 together at some point once I clean up the early 90s a bit more (1990-92 are largely done sans Yunya 91, so the focus will be on 1993/94 soon).

2358:, presumably since it's of interest to the meteorologically-inclined readers, but the knot is of almost no interest to casual readers. I didn't even know of the knot's usage in meteorology until I began tracking storms myself in late 2014. I often have removed usage of 1943:(Having two values, it is up to the editors to apply the best RS-value. For consistency, the article best use a single source value throughout. The second one could be mentioned once. Anyway, my points here apply to both speeds values used, just a bit more confusing.) 1317:

I just wanted to get some discussion going on the yearly TC articles as their popularity has been increasing. We should establish some ground rules on these articles for handling certain situations. Feel free to add more subsections if an issue needs to be debated.

4172:

would be a good source, but you will need a subscription to view it. I haven't the time spare as I'm busy with shipwreck lists. Currently about 3/4 the way throughthe 1856 list. I'll cover the ships when I do the 1864 list in depth, probably about a year ahead.

445:

I agree to the above. We should set benchmarks to define how we hope to improve these articles, and identify the top priority articles that need to be created. For the season articles, we need to at least document every storm on record and with their impacts. ♫

2493:

until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

1589:

I acknowledged there was consensus against deleting the set index pages entirely and closed the discussion on those grounds. I figured it would be better to bring any discussion regarding redirecting here since it may take some time to get a clear consensus.

5186:, but it remains in a dire condition. I see it's only mid-importance to this project, which might reflect the old research in which the two weren't strongly linked? Anybody fancy making this less about the US, and replacing older science with newer science? 5011:

which appears to be a "breaking change" to the template. That is, if this change is kept, all 30-odd uses of the template will need to be changed. I did not revert it because at least one of the pages that uses the template is using the current version.

4168:- this was a massive event with casualties in the tens of thousands. A quick internet search shows that there are a mass of web sources. I can point anyone interested to contempory newspaper sources which are free to view worldwide online. Would think the 789:

Articles may be covered by multiple task forces. If the storm(s) in question have their own articles, they can fall under both. The season article itself wouldn't be added to the task force. All has to do about the peculiarity of where the storm formed.

2867:

I will be able to work on getting this task accomplished soon as there is a list established for some names already. I can start moving things over as I get a list done for each letter. However, redirects should be named similarly to the larger lists.

1326:

First topic for debate is crossover systems.... this is referring to systems that span multiple calendar years. Which year should they belong to? I will present you with a few choices for discussion purposes (feel free to make other suggestions).

1394:

Systems that formed in one year, but were named in the next will receive mention in an other storms section on the previous year's article as well as normal mention on the current year (included in the table and mentioned in prose if it caused

3804:

Great work so far on this field. I don’t think written historical info (like historic strikes) is needed unless it compliments your research. I absolutely think the locations should be there. I know the Atlantic ones are already mentioned in

3229:

After checking on Jason's FAC, I noticed that all the SPAC articles have the wrong date format. Neither Fiji nor New Zealand use the format that is currently being used. Both countries use the same DD/MM/YYYY format that Aus and Reunion use.

2273:

Thanks for the description. So there is already some manipulation in the NHC handling of speeds, implicit and effects are present in our articles. I will have to think again on my remarks. Yes, this is the inconsistency I noted, expanding it

3344:

from IBTRACS. "Charlie Neumann produced a consolidated best track dataset for the Southern Hemisphere which brought together information from dozens of sources. It is a static dataset; IBTrACS uses data from Neumann’s data from 1960 through

3183:, which had more impact than most storms I had done at the time and killed over 1,000, caused me to well comprehend the extent of the disaster more than I had in the past, which in turn made me uncomfortable to say the least. The second was 3149:

I don't know if it's PTSD, but man, some storms still give me that sinking pit in my stomach. I remember exactly where I was, when I was, for quite a few storms since 2005 (when I joined), from the comfort of my own computer in New Jersey,

1330:

Should we make them count as systems for both years, make them count for the year in which they became a TC/system, or make them count for the year in which they were named (unnamed crossovers will be counted for the previous year only).

217:

More importantly, we need to define what articles we still need to create and, yanno, actually create them. I believe that would be creating seasonal articles back to the start of every basin's reliable recordkeeping. Atlantic is done to

340:

Yeah, the improvement task force could also be a supplement for basins that have minimal support as is (NIO, AUSR, SWIO, SPAC). Although, the focus would be on improving older content rather than providing updates for current systems.

2567:

This is the lower tier of the awards system. These awards are designed to be easier to obtain. Each award will have a different color to signify the level of the award. The numbers mentioned below are total amounts, not additional.

1459:

the more you do it, the better you get. Eventually, you just get used to everything that's required in an article. As noted above, we've done a great job over the years documenting tropical cyclones worldwide as a community. ♫

1398:

Tropical cyclones that were tracked by either a TCWC or an outside RSMC, but were not designated by the RSMC of that area will be explored more thoroughly than what would be possible on the season article (in the other storms

647:

It is great to see the project trying to become organised again, however, I firmly feel that we do not need task forces for each and every basin especially if it goes as far as SE Pacific which would be merged with South

241:

TL;DR, the top priority should be adding and citing content where it's lacking, namely stub-season article creation, articles for historic and retired storms, and eventually having citations for all articles, making them

2012:

The class table has integer (whole) numbers only. That means ther could be border issues, when "96 kn" (class 3) storm converts to "177 km/h" (class 2). This required detail checking later on. But anyway, we should not

273:

has practically no information despite it being available. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be worked on. Coverage on older seasons definitely needs a lot of improvement and this would be able to help with that.

111:

Improvement task force. The purpose of this task force would be to improve all lowly rated articles (as possible) that have been neglected due to age or others getting precedent and get them to a higher quality rating.

4752:, which are two of the storms from last year that are likely retired. Part of what has made the project so successful in the long run was some sort of end goal. I remember in the Atlantic, back in 2005, working with 2787:

We could simply do "List of storms named X" or "List of cyclones named X". Even if we decide to get rid of individual pages in the future, it does not change the fact the names need to be standardized and corrected.

2436:

apply the correct conversions, but many others don't, and basically none update for reanalysis, so they are all deemed strictly subordinate to the RSMC. Additionally, other sources will seldom do anything other than

4496:- telling people how not to waste their time is a great way to waste your own time :P I was happy to make up the newsletter, but I hope someone can do the next month, as this month should be pretty busy for me. ♫ 2497:

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

1772:

can be consistently formatted differently than disambiguation pages as suits the type of topic. But we don't forego the disambiguation page for a longer list article. Disambiguation pages do have the same format (

2324:

At least the infobox should mention the knots. And the article, say in first section (not lede). And somewhere, this incidental rounding should be clarified. Still open what to do with other sources. (same again

3666:

Do you propose a cutoff for what gets mentioned? For example, 2nd costliest/most intense/deadliest? What about the 3rd most? The record also has something to do with it. What are the records that should be

494:

I think I would rather create a task force for each basin, instead of a large "Storms Task Force". Also, we should set a minimum standard for the notability of a storm ($ 10,000 of damage, 10 deaths, etc.)

2490: 2075:

Then, the infobox can classify using the straight numbers. So when source unit is km/h, use lookup table column "km/h" values. (Current rounding & number manipulation should be and could be removed).

4377: 3689:

Why not just list 1st only though? I don't disagree with broader inclusion, but the point of the infobox is to highlight key facts, not records and I don't think runners up ever qualify as a "key fact".

1372:

I do agree that the systems crossing over should get mention and be put on the timeline. They shouldnt be counted for numerical purposes in the new year unless the system becomes named. For crossovers...

564:

What about a task force for the historical storms? There are going to be people who only edit when storms are active. But for the historical storms, there is a lot of overlap of resources and databases.

1545:

page or remain in their current capacity. Each storm name would be a section and simply have its current set index page redirect to it, not the level 2 heading for the first letter in the storm's name.

2759:

We need to be moving away from the idea that all of these disambiguation pages should just cover named tropical storms as they should cover Non tropical storms as well such as the ones the UKMO name.

2828:

admin. This will likely be challenged after the fact as well. Knowledge (XXG) admins outside of WPTC are staunchly opposed to this. Personally, I feel each letter should have its own separate list.

3809:. I think the “Techniques” section should be in prose instead of bullet points, personally. I think you’re on the right track - the world has benefited from your edits, so keep up the good work! 360: 3146:

in 2013. It's funny that no one noticed for three years. Maybe it's just a coincidence, or maybe it's because we don't want to even think about the sixth-deadliest tropical cyclone on record.

3093:

I'm not going to lie, discovering an older, extremely deadly cyclone is shocking, but there is small comfort that it occurred far in the past. That shock wears off when your research yields a

869: 97: 89: 84: 72: 67: 59: 1334:

Additionally, if options 2 or 3 were selected, how would that be handled in the article? Would the outliers be included only on the timeline or would they be in the January table as well?

606:

I'm willing to take it as far as having a task force dedicated to "South Atlantic, Mediterranean, and Southeast Pacific cyclones," and also have a task force dedicated to timelines, with

1195:, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019. 4308:

I think that these goals are achievable if the project can pull together and work on them. For what its worth, I have an article that I would be willing to put through A Class Review.

3336:

comes from the local agencies (Eg: BoM, Reunion Nadi etc). Post-September 1980, they warned on TC's along with the NPMOC (Never Push Me On Cyclones), however, I quote from the JTWC

125:

Interesting proposal but I would note that some of the 20% would be season articles which may need splitting off before being improved. Especially in the Southern Hemisphere basins.

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you working on typhoon articles. That's the 2nd largest basin, and has hundreds of potential articles (if not from the past then from the current season). I'm also thankful that

3341: 1886:

Apparently hurricane researchers use speed units knots, mph, km/h (and sometimes m/s), and so do wikipedia articles. On enwiki, it is common to convert speeds into other units:

1537:

After listening to feedback from the AfD, it appears a broad consensus is needed as this is a controversial issue. I would like to open up a discussion on whether set indexes

1485:

as we all know, storm imagery from digital typhoon is copyrighted. however, are the weather maps from the site copyrighted? they are JMA images but hosted on a different site

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on the side of including the records in the info box. I don’t think it’s trivial, if anything it highlights how active/intense/damaging tropical cyclones have gotten lately.

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Well... I would be okay with that. However, I think the article improvement task force should still have the function of serving as a supplement for the low traffic basins.

2967:

exists, but the link to the task force is a red link. If it doesn't exist, I'd like to add the categories to CfD; if it does, can the link's target be updated? Thanks, --

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Crossover TDs and TLs that become named systems after December 31 will count as a TD/TL for the previous year and as both a TD/TL and a named system for the current year

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then we have to consider what happens for 1980-2007, the years where they overlap. Either way, I'm strongly against mixing the two within a given year since there's no

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would cover the duties of them. I see no reason to have two task forces to do the exact same thing. For the classifications you mentioned, I think they should be used.

3934:

I undid you removing this, as I think it’s an important reminder that featured pictures do exist. I just think they should be limited to visually impressive pictures.

1993:). As the table appears, one can lookup a certain speed in whichever one of the four units (kn, mph, km/h, m/s). Of course this classification must be done per the 3431:

sourcing that JTWC has no confidence in data from this period? I've usually seen ibtracs have both data sets so I don't think that can be used as a distinguisher.--

2198:

This way the editor does not need to pre-convert any input (no knots into mph manually). Also, changing RS-value before input may introduce errors and imprecision.

47: 17: 462:

This is fundamentally why I was against this when it first came up. There was no really well-defined scope that would be a sub-project of WPTC in accordance with

416:

Okay... We need to decide on an official name for the task force... so as it stands currently, the responsibilities of the article improvement task force include:

4850:

We're not on WPTC 4.0 yet. I think we need to get all of the seasons back to the beginning of record keeping (even if we do decade articles). We gotta split the

1940:"1-minute sustained: 65 mph (100 km/h)". These same output speeds are hardcoded in the article (lede, #Meteorological history). An other source says: "65 mph". 2919: 2900: 3881:

OK, I've finished this up. Does anyone think this might stand a chance in a GA process or the like? (Not FA, the source incompleteness is a hinderance there)

1095:

Agree with the article title change as it works better in my opinon, however, im not sure about Europe. I suspect it might be better to split and tidy it up.

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do not have the same format. I also feel that several of the articles are pointless and redundant, as they contain or should only two or three entries like

1379:

Crossover systems will be mentioned in the yearly article table (Dec/Jan) for the year in which the RSMC counts it. Systems will be put onto both timelines.

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Serving as a supplement for SPAC, NIO, SWIO, and AUSR (more or less creating content for those basins rather than performing updates on current systems).

2546:

Yeah, we can use overall edits. The upper tier (medals), which is not currently mentioned, would have additional requirements such as GAs and FA/FL/FP.

5048:

issue rises from having points to represent intensity and position. It makes tracks such as Michael and Andrew seem inaccurate when they truly aren't.

3399:

Agree per the above. pre-1980 is very questionable. I feel this should be used in some cases after 1980 as well. If there is a large discrepancy (: -->

3377:

feel that the infobox should be superseded if better data comes to light, since it is doubtful that they would ever do a reanalysis. I also note that

4988: 1062:

There are a lot of areas that could eventually get this sort of article (as I proposed above). I think we could have better names for them, namely:

5127: 3806: 3462:. As a result, while I have some qualms about using their data I am not going to declare it unreliable and support its usage within the infoboxes. 5179: 363:, which shows by color-coding every storm and season article worldwide, from Stub (the worst in red) to green/blue for good/featured articles. ♫ 803:

The biggest priority now is creating the task forces, and then tagging all of the articles in the non-NHC basins. WPAC will take the longest. ♫

3501: 3482: 3049: 3030: 2377:), but even those are rare enough to disregard. Speaking of RSMC's, our practice is straightforward: we take the RSMC's (or in some cases the 4780:) making the entirety of the Atlantic hurricane database available for free, online. Come to think of it, I'd love if someone could create a 4228:

Tropical cyclones 1950-1999 (49/50 to 98/99 for SHEM) - 100/350 (29%) rated a good article, up to 68 season articles (19%) need to be created

3642:. Why maintain those? I understand and support leaving it in the prose, but I'm under the impression we are forgetting the big picture here. 2964: 914: 5156: 269:

Yeah, the main priority of this task force would be improving the older articles (possibly creating more articles if need be). For example,

5183: 3191:, because reading news articles about how many or in some cases who they died hit more more since my grandfather had recently passed away. 766:

Considering most of those are covered by the regular season pages, I don't think those storms should be added to the Anomalous task force.

607: 3627:

So I've been making my one every few months visit to view all the season records but it seems every few months people get fancy and start

4922: 723:

I like the idea, but I would rather see another task force to cover the miscellaneous areas such as South Atlantic, Mediterranean, etc..

4145:

in the season article for older storms in the North Indian Ocean. Feel free to add content here if there's not enough for an article. ♫

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I want to create it, because it should improve (should) all our articles, and could make other people participate. What we got to lose?

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I'd say a task force for each basin would be useful for assessment/WW purposes even if it wouldn't exactly have an active talk page.

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That work would be appreciated, but keep in mind it might take a while. I got burnt out just doing U-Z and some of the I storms. ♫

2385:: the RSMC is considered more reliable than any third-party source. Lots of third-party sources violate the rounding convention.-- 5004: 4865: 4546: 4142: 3283:

I'm working to introduce some changes in the ontology of information about tropical cyclons in Wikidata. I left a message in the

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the RSMC or the JTWC, which also means they can never be more reliable than the agency making the estimate in the first place.--

1829:

for tropical cyclone advisories has been dead for long time, we should think about an alternative solution as soon as possible.

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Graphix task force... this one would easily be doable as we have several individuals that work with images and tracks already.

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severe internet issues due to damages from an ice storm. I would appreciate it if some of you could help with expanding it.

828: 4790:(I don't even want it for myself, there are a lot of retired users who have made articles that have been on the main page.) 4345:

I'm almost done the first one. I'll publish it on the 1st, but I'd really appreciate someone else taking the next month. ♫

3920:

As the bot does not notify anyone about featured pictures, I would like to make everyone aware of the discussion going on.

3504:

to be moved. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion

3052:

to be moved. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion

827:

to add the WPAC force to the template, only it's not encoding properly. Could anyone who template knowledge take a look at

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Thanks for sharing YE, and sorry for your loss. You're a good writer, I'm glad Knowledge (XXG) as your contributions. ♫

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trying so hard lately to get new editors editing. Hopefully we can all get more editors to join in the coming year. ♫

4528: 1933: 1880: 1225: 1071: 1056: 5113: 3758: 3587: 3528: 3076: 2950: 1918:(in mph) and shows conversions mph, km/h only. The same speed input(s) are used to determine classification (like by 1304: 999: 511:

the coverage of systems is not good currently. Also, the task force will improve all stub and start class articles.

5082: 5063: 2350:(as an overall comment) The current rounding system isn't broken and doesn't need to be fixed. We mention knots in 1908: 288: 38: 2017:

to this mistake by rounding too roughly (IOW, rounding by five-folds will increase the chance of misclassifying).

668:

task forces. I am open to splitting Southern hemisphere even more, but those basins tend to have many crossovers.

4537: 4466: 4235: 4030: 3935: 3901: 3810: 3672: 2995: 2843: 2774: 2533: 1136: 1132: 900: 772: 742: 674: 616: 566: 530: 500: 5089:. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion 3734:. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion 3563:. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion 2926:. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion 2213: 1990: 1919: 1280:. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion 975:. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion 5145: 5135: 4261:

Improve every retired South Pacific cyclone to at least good article status - 28/105 (27%) rated a good article

3824: 3735: 3101: 1273: 1254: 1904:

It is up the the article editors (and this WikiProject) to establish good practices on this. For example, the

235: 1843:

websites. It is also worth noting that there are a couple of other websites which archive advisories such as

4945: 4907: 4874: 4817: 4669: 4624: 4605: 4502: 4386: 4367: 4351: 4334: 4258:

Improve every retired Australian cyclone to at least good article status - 27/112 (24%) rated a good article

4202: 4151: 3886: 3863: 3845: 3790: 3782:

currently uses bullet points to delimit each method, but I wonder if subsections would be more appropriate.

3609: 3366: 3264: 3211: 3168: 3091:

have you experienced any anxiety, depression, or PTSD because of researching/documenting a tropical cyclone?

2888: 1810: 1760: 1465: 1428: 1355: 1084: 972: 837: 809: 452: 369: 258: 238:, and also note I need to joke at times of discussing historic deadly storms we know next to nothing about.) 4252:

Improve every retired Atlantic hurricane to at least good article status - 43/87 (49%) rated a good article

4112: 1859:, and the FMS emailing me certain products that we take note of, such as the Tropical Disturbance Summary. 243: 5164: 5053: 3837: 3319: 3255: 2366:

when it produced wrong conversions ("wrong" in the sense of converting directly and correctly from knots).

1491: 1388:

The first system of the year will be the first new system or the first crossover to become a named system.

880:

Cyclone Josie/Cyclone Keni both of which are retired names from this year, but are not yet under articles.

394: 3451: 3337: 463: 5191: 4890: 4836: 4802: 4725: 4639: 4633: 4581: 4559: 4482: 3694: 3655: 3560: 3435: 3298: 3195: 3133: 2445: 2410:, I challenge this approach. This thread already illustrates some background, esp re source handling. - 2389: 2326: 1997:

full stop. An editor should not change that value when classifying (do not round, do not convert unit).

1528: 1382:

Crossover systems that remain a TD/TL or are already named will count only for the previous year's stats

1242: 1117: 929: 852: 583: 470: 1184: 3602:

Talk:List of California hurricanes#A source worth noting (relative mortality hurricanes / earthquakes)

4998: 4962: 4930: 4859: 4532: 4461: 4407: 4313: 4025: 3467: 3390: 3350: 3007: 2990: 2764: 2115:

Guideline 2 can be suported by prescribing "All wind speeds should be rounded to 0 decimals". Use of

1864: 1737: 1100: 1018: 895: 885: 767: 737: 669: 653: 611: 525: 495: 194: 157: 130: 1724:. I also wonder at times if some are not redundant to more generalised lists about the subject like 1128: 248: 5131: 4757: 4695: 4672: 4657: 4642: 4417: 4094: 4068: 4045: 4011: 3985: 3957: 3921: 3727: 3708: 3564: 3401: 3242: 3017: 2972: 2869: 2829: 2789: 2746: 2547: 2518: 2499: 2433: 1591: 1547: 1446: 1418: 1404: 1335: 1277: 1179:

Hello WikiProject Tropical cyclones, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this

3648: 2428:

that would conflict with this practice. The conversions and roundings are clearly permissible per

2425: 2407: 2172: 1773: 1417:

Agreed, that seems to be a good set of rules that works for what we have in place. In the case of

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cyclone or whatever. Ditto basin crossers - include them in both, but not for number purposes. ♫

1079: 922: 832: 804: 447: 364: 317: 253: 170: 4245:

Improve every retired storm to at least good article status - 150/473 (32%) rated a good article

4141:, it can be tricky writing articles for storms from 150 years ago. The 1864 storm has a mention 152:

Yeah I kinda meant season articles into storm articles. Always happy to see work on SHEM though.

4939:

There are a lot of SPAC storms in there though. We need dedicated articles for AUS and SPAC. ♫

3900:

Good work! Given the level of referencing, I’m sure it could pass a GAN without too much work.

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Thanks. To clarify a) I was meaning things like shipwreck reports or the Chinese gazettes.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Timeline_of_the_2000_Atlantic_hur

3463: 3386: 3346: 3159: 2760: 1860: 1733: 1163: 1096: 1014: 881: 649: 153: 126: 4521: 3179:

I really can think of three instances, two of which occurred in 2013. First, I was doing

2281:

edit was needed (while not touching the hardcoded 65 mph/100 km/h infobox/NHC numbers). -

3456: 481:

expanded on a lot of them. I think content and citations will be the main things we do.

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Could you please go through this page and make suggestions about the proposal? Thanks,

3180: 3109: 3013: 2984: 2968: 1900:

is well equipped to do these maths including rounding, presicion, names & symbols).

1833: 1391:

The last system of the year will be the last system to dissipate, not the last to form.

4085:

I am trying to create a bot to upload the NHC hurricane track maps to commons. Please

2212:

This makes sure that the converted value ends up in the same class (same catewgory in

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The conversions for these two sourced values are (rounded to integer numbers here):

5020: 4552: 4174: 4136: 4120: 3858:'k, I've applied some of these and will work the others in over the next few days. 3731: 3188: 3155: 327: 227: 178: 1131:. The article titles could be shorter if written differently. This way it mirrors 4225:

Tropical cyclones since 2000 (99/00 for SHEM) - 41/129 (31%) rated a good article

3459: 4811:) for continuing to edit. Lemme know if you want to collab on 1997 PHS GT/FT. ♫ 4767: 4574: 4493: 4431: 2807: 2411: 2345: 2330: 2297: 2282: 2253: 2240: 2222: 2134: 1698: 1532: 1524: 1202: 824: 293: 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

5015:

I recommend reverting it (possibly keeping subsequent changes) and making sure

3596:

Request for input on an addition to the "List of California hurricanes" article

2072:

This way, the RS value can be used directly and no need to pre-convert values.

1631:

Neither of the two options suggested at the top of this thread; they should be

1852: 1612: 1584: 1565: 1520: 2187:

I propose: in hurricane articles and infoboxes, for classifying wind speeds:

2005:

Then when a storm is classified, the converted speed values should be in the

1696:(of course, if there's only one article to link to it should be a redirect). 4886:

Fair enough though I’m excited at the pre-1980 SHEM focus we’ve had lately.

4524:. These should be articles held to the same standards as featured articles. 1830: 1826: 1188: 4255:

Improve every retired Typhoon to at least good article status - 25/48 (52%)

2205:

Guideline 2: wind speeds in storm articles: always round to integer values.

1445:

Okay... I fixed this to better go with how season articles are being done.

199:

to name a few. This would simply be an official place to organize efforts.

5128:

Talk:List of Atlantic hurricane records#Most and fewest storms in a season

4004:

Could someone update this map with the track of subtropical Storm Andrea?

3187:, largely because I wrote that as the disaster was ongoing. The third was 2963:

Hi. Does the "Anomalous task force" exist for this project? I ask because

1192: 550:

less have a cover all for now to supplement the activity in those areas.

5157:

Knowledge (XXG):Village pump (proposals)#Proposal to delete Portal space

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acknowledging broad consensus to keep these. What changed since then? --

1261: 956: 430:

Improving all older, stub and start class articles regardless of basin.

3113: 1238:

Hope you guys have a miserable Christmas. /s Merry Christmas everyone!

524:

There's no such thing as a minimum of editors needed for a task force.

3258:- Jason is correct. Fiji and Wallis and Futuna use MDY date format. ♫ 2373:

who decided for some reason to use non-multiples-of-5 (looking at you

2033:

We best imply these guidelines in both infobox and article body text.

1981:

Any such rounding should be done consistently throughout the article.

1970:

In general, it is good habit that to round conversions to five-folds:

4328:

Would any users be interested in receiving the project newsletter? ♫

1848: 316:

goes back to 1978). That's what I will be focusing on for the while.

2491:

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Tropical Storm Carlotta (2018)

2191:

Guideline 1: input should be the sourced value (a speed), unchanged.

1989:

Hurricanes are classified by their wind speeds (for example, on the

4378:

Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Newsletter/Archive 36

1776:) and aren't hard enough to maintain to avoid maintaining them. -- 4081:

Request for Comments: Automatic upload of NHC hurricane track maps

139:

The task force could work on cyclone articles until that happens.

3085:

PTSD/general anxiety related to tropical cyclones? Post away here

4788:, recognizing users who have created substantial or good works. 2024:: wind speeds in storm articles: always round to integer values. 4231:

Tropical cyclones 1900-1949 - 40/350 (11%) rated a good article

3427:

years should also be taken into consideration. Do we also have

2381:'s) intensity number in knots and apply our conversion figure. 2295:

Yeah that edit is ok, definitely not NHC 1-min winds there. ~ '

1883:

to check the wind speed conversion. I think it has some flaws.

1032:

I'd like to open a discussion about how we name articles like:

2432:, and in the case of third-party sourcing, weather sites like 2369:

The only drawback I find with this practice is the misbehaved

1729: 870:

Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Article requests

25: 5069: 4957:

Strange I could only see two - Apia and Giselle but i agree.

4478:

We have bigger things to worry about than a newsletter tbh.

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Is there any other more specific point to discuss about WD?

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should redirect to their corresponding storm section on the

1260: 955: 4119:. Should be plenty of coverage in contemporary newspapers. 2801:

Alternatively we could add the rest of the letters besides

1113:

Are they fundamentally not lists? Why do they work better?

2478:

is suitable for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG) according to

2104:

When the source is in kn, but the article uses mph, km/h:

1950:: input should be the sourced value (a speed), unchanged. 5104: