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It may be that some of these do not position themselves as firmly as Kovel as "ecosocialist," but if they are listed here, the indication is that their views are, in fact, highly relevant to the discussion of ecosocialism. Discussing their views would make this an article about ecosocialism as a developing concept. As the article stands, while very informative regarding Kovel's views, it might more appropriately be entitled, "Joel Kovel's Views of
Ecosocialism."
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1789:-I agree to an extent, but Kovel is the chief person who has written about Eco-socialism and is like Marx to socialism/communism, so is likely to be referenced a hell of a lot. He is the only one who has really talked about eco-socialist transition, so to remove it would take out the main author on the subject and most of the main ideas. I will try to supplement it but recommend not removing it at this stage
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2952:: "What every environmentalist needs to know ... is that capitalism is not the solution but the problem, and that if humanity is going to survive this crisis, it will do so because it has exercised its capacity for human freedom, through social struggle, in order to create a whole new world—in coevolution with the planet."
2948:—as the only sufficient solution to the present-day ecological crisis, and hence the only path towards sustainability. Sustainability is viewed not as a domain exclusive to scientists, environmental activists, and business leaders but as a holistic project that must involve the whole of humanity redefining its place in
1713:(a website in New Zealand, The Watermelon, uses the term as a compliment, stating that it is "green on the outside and liberal on the inside", using the term 'liberal' while also citing "socialist political leanings", reflecting the use of the term 'liberal' to describe the Left-wing in many English-speaking countries).
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incapable of facilitating large-scale change: "History teaches us that although capitalism has at times responded to environmental movements ... at a certain point, at which the system's underlying accumulation drive is affected, its resistance to environmental demands stiffens." They also note that,
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Having pored over the dictionary, I'm going to go with transnational. For one, it appears elsewhere in the article and will synch things up nicely. It also gives a better sense of an organization being above national boundaries rather than being multiple nations (as international does). Multinational
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In the sections where I added the banner on "single source" clearly we are facing strong generalizations based on a single source by one author. But not only that but in fact the entire sections named "Critique of other forms of green politics", "Critique of other forms of socialism", "Eco-socialist
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As of
October 5, 2010, there are eighteen other people besides Kovel listed in section entitled "List of Eco-socialists." Therefore, it would seem to me that the article, rather than laying out Kovel's views almost exclusively, should contain the views of a significant number of these other people.
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You've provided your own interpretation, not explicit sources of other people with a reputation for fact-checking and reliability, who are qualified to make such judgments. Adding your own interpretation of
Thunberg's words is a violation of half a dozen policies and guidelines, and is disruptive.
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The use of quotes around words and phrases is often to highlight ideologically grounded phraseology - as in, there is a highly deliberate, deeper ideological context to the choice of words being used (eg, discussions on eco-socialism take place within the whole greater realm of socialism proper,
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I really like this article. However, it is fairly hard to read from a stylistic perspective in terms of the constant and needless use of "quotes" around words which themselves are not particularly "quote worthy". If the term is unique perhaps it deserves some use of italics, or if the original
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Is this a biography regarding whoever the hell Kovel is, or an article on what eco-socialism is? Fuck him, or change the title to "Kovel's version of E-S". Paragraph 1 = What's socialism? Paragraph 2 = What's ecological politics; Paragraph 3 = What's the Venn diagram overlap between the two?
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The whole article needs a good copyedit check. As much of the article relies on a single source, as new citations are added to the claims and arguments presented in the article, the wording will inevitably need changing to stop referring specifically and singly to the views and statements of
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It's from
Australia, not New Zealand, and it's tag line is "The Watermelon Blog Green on the outside, social justice inside". Which negates the commentry on "the use of the term 'liberal' to describe the Left-wing in many English-speaking countries". Maybe there was once a New Zealand based
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to become increasingly unequal and socially unstable/unsustainable. Ecosocialists claim that the general unwillingness of capitalists to tolerate—and capitalist governments to implement—constraints on maximum profit (such as ecotaxes or preservation and conservation measures) renders
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Would it be acceptable to replace "transstatal" either with "transnational" or "international" anywhere it appears? Most places in the world, state and nation are interchangeable concepts. It would be different in the United States, but that's not what is being discussed here.
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I am not so sure. If Kovel's views diverge from other ecosocialists, then that should be discussed. As Aled points out, He and Lowy are the major figures in eocsocialism (even in the
English-speaking world, citations of the two are quite similar with regard to the topic).
2739:"After all, the climate crisis is not just about the environment. It is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all. "
2932:, destruction caused by natural disasters generally causes an increase in economic growth and accumulation; thus, capitalists have no foreseeable motivation to reduce the probability of disasters (i.e. convert to sustainable/ecological production).
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specifically means more than two countries, so I'm leaving that out. Inter-state, multi-state, and cross-state - Everything I looked up for those is referring to states in the USA, so I'm avoiding that. Changes have been made in this article and in
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which has it's own technical & ideological vocab). The more political science knowledge one has, the more this makes sense - thats the best way I can quickly explain it (the quotes add value and meaning to political scientists).
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Huge amounts of this article refer not to eco-socialism, but just to Kovel. Where whole sections refer only to Kovel's views, these should either be supplemented/replaced by other eco-socialists, or moved to Kovel's own article.
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The section and subsection titles are, for the most part, much longer than they need to be, and, as a result, they make the table of contents unwieldy. How about if they are edited down to something reasonable and manageable?
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Also, I love the watermelon thing (but it is making me want to eat one now—the fruit obviously). I thought it sounded questionable but it does seem to be used on the WWW quite a bit. It's not in the OED, but I found a
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and am placing it here so that it (or parts of it) can be integrated into this article where it fits better. Note the text block relies entirely on just two publications: +++++++++ One school of thought, often labeled
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1982:. Social ecology is open and explicit on being a socialist current and as such saying that ecosocialism has a "critique of social ecology" is falling in absurdity due to an error of simple
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Paragraph 4 = History of; Paragraph 5 = How it has evolved from then to now in its platform, and WHY it has evolved, based on further epistemological evidence gathered since the founding.
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I think transstatal should be hyphenated or removed; it doesn't appear to be a widely recognized word, and in its non-hyphenated form it does not follow standard
English conventions.
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I believe the content should be removed from the Eco-socialism article since it is already under the Joel Kovel article and it does not represent the views across the field.
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material is worth quoting it should be quoted in context as a block paragraph. Otherwise why not simply assume this is a broad summary of ideas and eliminate the "quotes"?
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with some RL sources if someone wants to add a reference. Continuing the fruit analogy, do you call someoene who starts off as a Green but starts to become socialist too a
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Most of the "Critique of other forms of green politics", "Critique of other forms of socialism", "Eco-socialist strategy", and other
Sections are basically copy/paste from
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
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The following foreign language versions of the articles have information and sources that may be of value to adding to the
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A steady-state capitalist economy is impossible; further, a steady-state capitalist economy is socially undesirable due to the inevitable outcome of massive
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As I see it a lot of affirmations if not some of these sections themselves simply have to be removed or at least be reformulated in an important form.--
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Yet, Acroterion demande for more "sources" despite other politic personalities on the list being far less obvious in how they made it to the list.
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2878:) are rejected as technical tweaks that do not confront capitalism's structural failures. "Low-risk" technology/science-based solutions such as
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Since Im not a wikipedia user, as it isn't peer reviewed, here's my twitter handle to self-ident: @anonomouse1981 12015HE-04-14 T07:19 PDST Z-8
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I've No idea on that question, sorry. I have a related queary about the The
Watermelon website refered to in the article, where it states that:
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is fundamentally incompatible with the ecological and social requirements of sustainability. This theory rests on the premises that:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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1658:) especially as there is no meaningful distinction here. Red greens is probably still OK as the others aren't countable.
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would likely call themselves Red Greens or Green Reds, so it should be merged with the ideology to be more coherent.
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article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
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https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/climate-strikes-un-conference-madrid-by-greta-thunberg-et-al-2019-11
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Shouldnt the word Regimes be replaced with Governments considering Regimes is kinda used in a provocative way.
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What Every Environmentalist Needs to Know About Capitalism: A Citizen's Guide to Capitalism and the Environment
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economic/political/social structure designed to harmonize human society with non-human ecology and to fulfill
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What do you all think? If no-one has a problem (or no-one replies), I will merge the articles after 5 days.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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1974:. This is clearly a strong case of unbalance in the article and so I suggest anyone interested to check
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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articles on environment-related topics, as well as to ensure that environment articles are properly
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Picapica - I will make sure the Red/Blue contrast is included. C Mon, I support the merging of
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https://web.archive.org/web/20130902055046/http://www.soliobrera.org/pdefs/cuaderno4.pdf
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the pages. Please give me more feedback on the merger I make (it's my first merger!)...
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are viewed as morally praiseworthy but ignorant to the tendency in capitalism for the
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are seen as necessary but insufficient. "High-risk" technological solutions such as
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EL NATURISMO LIBERTARIO EN LA PENÍNSULA IBÉRICA (1890–1939) by Jose Maria Rosello
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El naturismo libertario en la PenĂnsula IbĂ©rica (1890–1939) by Jose Maria Rosello
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http://www.soliobrera.org/pdefs/cuaderno4.pdf#search=%22Antonia%20Maym%C3%B3n%22
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to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060526224800/http://www.acracia.org/xdiez.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060526224800/http://www.acracia.org/xdiez.html
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Anyone with the time or inclination...please help to expand the article on
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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Hi all - as about 5 days have passed without any objections, I will now
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https://web.archive.org/web/20061205093251/http://www.greenleft.org.uk/
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When did people first start referring to red-greens as "watermelons"?
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EVERYWHERE Nearly every citation is accomidated by this disclaimer.
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The Enemy of Nature: The End of Capitalism or the End of the World?
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is essentially a better term describing the ideology that combines
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The Enemy of Nature: The End of Capitalism or the End of the World?
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demands, is in conflict with the structural workings of capitalism
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Internationalization of prefiguration and the eco-socialist party
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both go to the disambiguation page and not here (in line with
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By this logic, market-based solutions to ecological crises (
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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the effect opposite of reductions in resource consumption
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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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watermellon site, but it's not showing up on google now.
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Low-importance social and political philosophy articles
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are entirely rejected. Attempts made by businesses to "
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http://www.dccofc.org/Documents/Review%20of%20Kovel.htm
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http://www.akpress.org/2004/items/postscarcityanarchism
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More citations are needed in the following sections:
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Social and political philosophy task force articles
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http://www.ecocon.org/constitution-of/bolivia-2009/
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1622:I'd discuss those changes on those talk pages. --
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2928:up until the event of total
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3026:Magdoff & Foster (2011)
2735:with a socialist agenda :
2723:Greta is an Eco-Militant ;
2102:to reactivate your request.
2090:has been answered. Set the
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1805:13:27, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
1794:15:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
1760:14:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
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2471:
2469:
2465:
2461:
2459:
2455:
2451:
2450:
2449:
2447:
2443:
2439:
2438:Eco-socialism
2434:
2428:
2426:
2425:
2419:
2412:
2405:
2401:
2398:
2394:
2393:
2392:
2385:
2379:
2375:
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2356:
2354:
2350:
2343:
2339:
2335:
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2333:
2329:
2321:
2315:
2311:
2310:Eco-socialism
2306:
2300:
2298:
2296:
2292:
2288:
2287:71.189.91.189
2279:
2277:
2275:
2271:
2267:
2263:
2251:
2243:
2233:
2229:
2225:
2222:Good call. --
2221:
2220:
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2207:
2206:
2196:
2187:
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2178:
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2149:
2142:
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2098:parameter to
2089:
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2071:
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2065:
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2053:
2049:
2045:
2043:
2039:
2035:
2034:
2033:
2032:
2028:
2026:
2022:
2021:Eco-socialism
2018:
2014:
2007:
2006:Eco-socialism
2003:
2001:
2000:
1996:
1992:
1987:
1985:
1981:
1977:
1973:
1965:
1961:
1959:
1958:
1954:
1950:
1944:
1942:
1938:
1934:
1930:
1919:
1917:
1915:
1911:
1907:
1906:206.116.10.54
1903:
1893:
1891:
1890:
1886:
1882:
1881:172.132.78.19
1878:
1870:
1866:
1864:
1863:
1858:
1857:
1850:
1838:
1836:
1833:
1829:
1825:
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1820:Eenwikilekter
1817:
1806:
1803:
1798:
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1773:
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1699:
1698:Harvestdancer
1691:
1689:
1688:
1685:
1680:
1675:
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1665:
1659:
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1548:
1547:
1546:
1545:
1542:
1537:
1534:
1532:
1528:
1524:
1520:
1519:Eco-Socialism
1516:
1514:
1510:
1506:
1505:Eco-socialism
1502:
1501:Eco-socialism
1498:
1497:Eco-socialism
1494:
1489:
1483:
1468:
1463:
1458:
1452:
1450:
1449:
1444:
1441:
1436:
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1355:
1352:
1349:
1346:
1343:
1340:
1337:
1334:
1331:
1328:
1324:
1322:
1321:Eco-socialism
1318:
1307:
1305:
1304:
1287:
1284:
1281:
1280:
1276:
1273:
1271:
1268:
1267:
1263:
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1186:
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1160:
1156:
1155:
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1133:
1130:
1126:
1125:
1121:
1118:
1116:
1113:
1112:
1108:
1105:
1102:
1098:
1097:
1093:
1090:
1087:
1083:
1082:
1078:
1075:
1072:
1071:Prefiguration
1068:
1067:
1063:
1060:
1057:
1053:
1052:
1048:
1045:
1043:
1040:
1039:
1035:
1032:
1029:
1025:
1024:
1020:
1017:
1014:
1010:
1009:
1005:
1002:
1000:
997:
996:
992:
989:
986:
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977:
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962:
959:
956:
952:
951:
947:
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937:
936:
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926:
922:
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917:
914:
911:
907:
906:
902:
899:
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891:
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877:
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869:
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864:
863:
859:
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854:
851:
850:
846:
843:
840:
836:
835:
831:
828:
825:
821:
820:
816:
813:
810:
806:
805:
801:
798:
796:
793:
792:
788:
785:
782:
778:
777:
773:
770:
767:
763:
762:
758:
755:
752:
748:
747:
743:
740:
737:
736:1990s onwards
733:
732:
728:
725:
722:
718:
717:
713:
710:
707:
703:
702:
698:
695:
692:
688:
687:
683:
680:
678:
675:
674:
670:
667:
665:
662:
661:
657:
654:
652:
649:
648:
642:
637:
634:
633:
629:
628:Eco-socialism
623:
622:
618:Section sizes
616:
615:
611:
604:
603:
588:
571:
570:
565:
561:
558:
554:
553:
549:
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389:
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35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
3240:
3233:Kovel (2007)
3228:
3223:, pp. 285–6.
3221:Kovel (2007)
3216:
3204:
3192:
3187:, pp. 102–7.
3180:
3175:, pp. 111–4.
3168:
3163:, pp. 108–9.
3156:
3149:Kovel (2007)
3144:
3132:
3120:
3108:
3096:
3084:
3077:Kovel (2007)
3062:Kovel (2007)
3057:
3045:
3033:
3021:
3013:
2999:
2997:+++++++++++
2996:
2979:. New York:
2976:
2958:
2934:
2865:
2833:
2803:ecosocialism
2795:
2766:
2744:— Preceding
2741:
2734:
2728:
2722:
2700:
2697:
2672:source check
2651:
2645:
2642:
2605:
2602:
2580:
2577:
2552:source check
2531:
2525:
2512:
2508:
2504:
2502:
2435:
2432:
2409:
2384:source check
2363:
2357:
2352:
2348:
2346:
2307:
2304:
2283:
2260:— Preceding
2257:
2198:
2194:
2133:
2128:
2107:
2099:
2088:edit request
2056:
2030:
2029:
2024:
2010:
1988:
1971:
1968:
1963:
1945:
1933:70.36.210.43
1923:
1897:
1874:
1852:
1842:
1809:
1788:
1765:
1753:
1736:David Colyer
1712:
1704:
1695:
1672:
1660:
1651:
1647:
1644:
1633:
1631:
1595:
1578:
1566:
1550:
1538:
1535:
1517:
1491:I think the
1490:
1487:
1446:
1445:
1430:
1429:
1387:
1373:
1372:
1354:
1347:
1341:
1335:
1329:
1315:
1309:
1256:Bibliography
1189:Non-violence
635:Section name
567:
510:
452:
351:
249:
217:
207:
136:
96:
40:WikiProjects
3052:, pp. 42–3.
2946:human needs
2942:egalitarian
2880:solar power
2840:human needs
2519:Sourcecheck
2266:46.21.99.29
1927:—Preceding
1900:—Preceding
1814:—Preceding
1598:Blue Greens
1383:Kovel, Joel
721:1970s–1990s
706:1950s–1960s
691:1880s–1930s
486:Environment
471:categorized
459:environment
411:Environment
3259:Categories
3247:, pp. 8–9.
3014:References
2857:revolution
2770:Acroterion
2709:Report bug
2589:Report bug
2186:Joel Kovel
2092:|answered=
1692:Watermelon
1555:Red Greens
1513:Red Greens
1493:Red Greens
1440:Joel Kovel
1317:To-do list
1242:References
225:Philosophy
214:philosophy
164:Philosophy
3235:, p. 163.
3211:, p. 125.
2900:greenwash
2692:this tool
2685:this tool
2572:this tool
2565:this tool
2404:this tool
2397:this tool
2129:Question:
2110:Sam.hill7
2059:AnomieBOT
2048:Anarchism
1652:Red green
1648:Red Green
1523:socialism
1448:Translate
1396:Zed Books
1385:(2007) .
1203:Criticism
112:Socialism
103:socialism
59:Socialism
3199:, p. 83.
3139:, p. 97.
3103:, p. 56.
3091:, p. 96.
3079:, p. 38.
3028:, p. 30.
2746:unsigned
2698:Cheers.—
2578:Cheers.—
2410:Cheers.—
2320:cbignore
2262:unsigned
1929:unsigned
1902:unsigned
1828:contribs
1816:unsigned
1766:Support.
1559:Picapica
1488:Hi all,
1432:Copyedit
1288:121,091
1229:See also
664:Ideology
569:inactive
543:inactive
3040:, p. 7.
3001:EMsmile
2904:Walmart
2612:my edit
2505:checked
2442:my edit
2420::Online
2349:checked
2314:my edit
1949:Semmler
1871:article
1683:contrib
1579:Support
1567:Support
1551:support
1345:refresh
1333:history
1285:121,091
1122:14,765
1049:10,015
873:18,611
802:13,048
684:25,962
677:History
643:Section
513:on the
463:neutral
363:Ecology
358:ecology
317:Ecology
252:on the
139:on the
30:C-class
2950:Nature
2776:(talk)
2513:failed
2328:nobots
2247:": -->
1802:Duncan
1668:pepper
1656:WP:DAB
1277:5,581
1264:7,892
1249:7,922
1223:1,376
1210:5,511
1197:2,007
1182:3,739
1167:3,688
1152:2,255
1137:2,257
1094:1,953
1079:4,597
1064:1,827
1056:Agency
1036:1,571
1021:4,801
1006:6,940
978:1,501
963:1,306
933:2,043
918:2,668
903:3,932
888:4,202
860:1,413
847:3,078
832:2,811
817:1,039
789:3,090
774:2,910
759:3,191
744:2,557
729:3,566
714:6,109
699:4,525
671:6,357
658:3,041
645:total
36:scale.
2280:Kovel
2212:Meep?
2147:Meep?
2096:|ans=
2086:This
2046:From
2036:From
1991:Eduen
1750:Kovel
1728:: -->
1723:: -->
1634:merge
1624:C mon
1571:C mon
1392:(PDF)
1339:watch
1282:Total
1274:5,581
1261:7,892
1220:1,376
1207:5,511
1194:2,007
1179:3,739
1164:3,688
1149:2,255
1134:2,257
1091:1,953
1076:4,597
1061:1,827
1046:1,012
1033:1,571
1018:4,801
975:1,501
960:1,306
930:2,043
915:2,668
900:3,932
885:4,202
870:1,430
857:1,413
844:3,078
829:2,811
814:1,039
799:6,120
786:3,090
771:2,910
756:3,191
741:2,557
726:3,566
711:6,109
696:4,525
668:6,357
655:3,041
651:(Top)
640:count
475:Read
447:This
3005:talk
2985:ISBN
2963:ISBN
2894:and
2754:talk
2509:true
2353:true
2291:talk
2270:talk
2249:edit
2228:talk
2224:Stfg
2197:. --
2195:Done
2167:talk
2163:Stfg
2114:talk
2025:this
1995:talk
1953:talk
1937:talk
1910:talk
1885:talk
1824:talk
1780:talk
1740:talk
1678:talk
1650:and
1600:and
1587:talk
1525:and
1400:ISBN
1327:edit
1319:for
1236:549
1109:626
993:779
948:750
638:Byte
465:and
131:High
2666:RfC
2636:to
2626:to
2546:RfC
2523:).
2511:or
2496:to
2486:to
2476:to
2466:to
2456:to
2378:RfC
2340:to
2204:Hef
2139:Hef
2094:or
1844:---
1233:549
1119:819
1106:626
1003:568
990:779
945:750
505:Mid
382:???
244:Low
3261::
3069:^
3007:)
2983:.
2882:,
2874:,
2870:,
2756:)
2679:.
2674:}}
2670:{{
2559:.
2554:}}
2550:{{
2521:}}
2517:{{
2391:.
2386:}}
2382:{{
2326:{{
2322:}}
2318:{{
2293:)
2272:)
2230:)
2201:El
2188:.
2169:)
2136:El
2132:--
2116:)
2100:no
2050::
2040::
1997:)
1986:.
1955:)
1939:)
1912:)
1887:)
1830:)
1826:•
1800:--
1782:)
1742:)
1589:)
1549:I
1539:--
1529:-
1465:*
1460:*
1455:*
1423:*
1418:*
1413:*
1398:.
1246:30
681:14
271:/
167::
3003:(
2992:.
2970:.
2752:(
2711:)
2707:(
2694:.
2687:.
2591:)
2587:(
2574:.
2567:.
2406:.
2399:.
2289:(
2268:(
2253:]
2226:(
2215:)
2209:(
2165:(
2150:)
2144:(
2112:(
2063:⚡
1993:(
1951:(
1935:(
1908:(
1883:(
1822:(
1778:(
1738:(
1585:(
1451::
1442:.
1435::
1407:.
1378::
1348:·
1342:·
1336:·
1330:·
1323::
572:.
545:)
541:(
517:.
483:.
473:.
390:.
256:.
143:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
