Talk:1964 Brazilian coup d'état

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Magalhães Pinto, de Minas Gerais, e Ademar de Barros, de São Paulo) e amplos setores de classe média pediram e estimularam a intervenção militar, como forma de pôr fim à ameaça de esquerdização do governo e de controlar a crise econômica. Antônio Carlos Muricy, Magalhães Pinto e Aurélio Lira Tavares numa cerimônia de condecoração do primeiro (entre 1967 e 1969). O golpe também foi recebido com alívio pelo governo norte-americano, satisfeito de ver que o Brasil não seguia o mesmo caminho de Cuba, onde a guerrilha liderada por Fidel Castro havia conseguido tomar o poder. Os Estados Unidos acompanharam de perto a conspiração e o desenrolar dos acontecimentos, principalmente através de seu embaixador no Brasil, Lincoln Gordon, e do adido militar, Vernon Walters, e haviam decidido, através da secreta "Operação Brother Sam", dar apoio logístico aos militares golpistas, caso estes enfrentassem uma longa resistência por parte de forças leais a Jango.

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to add a general "cause" being "communism". That's fine, but it's a historical perspective which is an analysis of the events (not a description of the events). That should be included, with authors disclosed and in a separate section . There's a difference between providing facts and letting the reader decide for themselves and what you originally did, which was conclude the cause for them. Right now the article accurately describes what happened in the coup, and at the end provides perspective by saying what three different people feel the causes of the coup were. I can't see how that's omitting history. And I don't think communists are to blame. I don't think the military is to blame, either.

2709:. The first one was not in any way shape or form related to the source you provided. I don't feel I own the article at all: it's one thing when you want to improve the article by expanding it (as I've done). It's another when all your contribution try push a particular point of view. I've been very careful not to push an opinion, but to expand on the events directly related to the coup. You've been adding analysis on why the coup happened. That's fine, but as I've said before, you need to adhere to the policies I've mentioned countless times, which you don't. When I edit your contributions, I check them to see if they adhere to policies such as 2379:) is one of the most remarkable ones. This march marked a social attitude against the imminnet communist threat. This threat was detected locally and globally since that period was marked by a national and international context of growing invigoration of authoritarian tendencies contrary to the political liberalism and to the representative democracy, so much to the left as for the right. The disbelief in democracy was generalized. No matter how much it was exaggerated, the perception of a "communist threat" in Brazil was not just a phantasmagoria: there was real intention of the communists of arriving to the power for revolutionary means. . 4301:

sailors assembled in Rio de Janeiro, petitioning for better living conditions and pledging their support for Goulart's reforms. The Minister of the Navy, Sílvio Mota, ordered the arrest of the sailors leading the assembly. Mota sent a detachment of marines to arrest the leaders and break up the assembly, led by Rear Admiral Cândido Aragão. These marines ended up joining the assembly and remained with the other sailors." In fact "Corporal Anselmo" was an agent of Fidel Castro and the "Sailor's revolt" was did under direct orders of Fidel Castro.This revolt that began the military revolt."Corporal Anselmo" was designed as leader of

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their relation. That is what the cited article illustrated. The party policies promoted by the Partido Trabalhista Brasileiro were populist socialist: rent controls, agrarian reform, etc. Cardoso was to the left of his party, and supported these populist socialist policies. In the end, it does not matter. I have added a citation which describes the rhetoric of the Partido Trabalhista Brasileiro as leftist populist, and, as the leaders and key supporters of that party did, in fact, flee into exile (think Goulart, Brizola, etc), the substitution of leftist populist should suffice.--(

1546:"normal" civil war (liberal reformers versus the established conservative establishment) and made it a three-way conflict. Could this have happened? Perhaps, but it ignores the fact that the initial cause of concern was civil war between liberals and democrats who supported different versions of capitalist democracy, not communism. Your last sentence, "He also point out that although censorship was severe, it was Latin America´s softest since media" was incomplete. Did you mean to say "since media outlets continued to operate?" If you did, we 359: 338: 3107:

This threat was detected locally and globally since that period was marked by a national and international context of growing invigoration of authoritarian tendencies contrary to the political liberalism and to the representative democracy, so much to the left as for the right. The disbelief in democracy was generalized. No matter how much it was exaggerated, the perception of a "communist threat" in Brazil was not just a phantasmagoria: there was real intention of the communists of arriving to the power for revolutionary means

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a dictatorship of the proletariat. The Partido Trabalhista Brasileiro were left-wing populists working to accomplish socialist objectives within a preexisting democratic republic. They did not the extreme and incontrovertable goals of Communism (be it Marxist-Leninist, Maoist or any other form). As for the mariners, yes, I can provide a quotation identifying their rebellion, but I must repeat myself when I state that insubordination does not equal communism. Military rebellions have taken place time immemorial. --(

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respeito à sucessão; a ameaça representada por uma reforma agrária mal definida; inquietação militar em face da tolerância do governo aos motins dos sargentos; e radicalismo crescente, tanto da direita como da esquerda (...), tudo isto complementado pela inflação em alta e, naturalmente, pelo fantasma assustador da revolução cubana" ("Patterns of State Building in Brazil and Argentina," in Hall, J.A organizador, States in History, London; Blackwell, 1986, p. 284).

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3310:. Eles também acreditavam que o regime democrático instituído no Brasil após 1945 não fora suficiente para se contrapor a esse inimigo. Os militares, no entanto, sempre enfatizaram, com razão, o fato de que "não estavam sós", isto é, que o golpe de 1964 não foi de sua exclusiva iniciativa, e sim resultado da confluência e do apoio de importantes segmentos da sociedade civil, preocupados com a possibilidade de que a esquerda conquistasse o poder no Brasil. 2957:. Eles também acreditavam que o regime democrático instituído no Brasil após 1945 não fora suficiente para se contrapor a esse inimigo. Os militares, no entanto, sempre enfatizaram, com razão, o fato de que "não estavam sós", isto é, que o golpe de 1964 não foi de sua exclusiva iniciativa, e sim resultado da confluência e do apoio de importantes segmentos da sociedade civil, preocupados com a possibilidade de que a esquerda conquistasse o poder no Brasil. 2526:. Eles também acreditavam que o regime democrático instituído no Brasil após 1945 não fora suficiente para se contrapor a esse inimigo. Os militares, no entanto, sempre enfatizaram, com razão, o fato de que "não estavam sós", isto é, que o golpe de 1964 não foi de sua exclusiva iniciativa, e sim resultado da confluência e do apoio de importantes segmentos da sociedade civil, preocupados com a possibilidade de que a esquerda conquistasse o poder no Brasil. 1300:

legislation he was trying to get passed regarding social welfare, etc). Were the conservative civilian politicians and a majority of military officers afraid of the specter of communism? Yes. But diplomacy with communist states only fanned the long standing flames of discontent. I think it would be worthwhile to discuss the grievances of the conservatives and the military, but we should not simply present them as justification for military action. --(

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political office and when he appeared sympathetic to rebelling sergeants in September 1963. The officer corps believed that the president was undermining discipline, thereby threatening military institutions." This is true, and worth mentioning in the article, but it is also important to note that, if the military believes that the President is involved, it is the Partido Trabalhista Brasileiro that is involved--not the Communists. --(

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did not exist, and the real rationale for the coup was internal, located in the internal conflicts among the Brazilian ruling class. The coup, while certainly approved and supported by Washington, was not a foreign intervention in the context of the Cold War; it was an internal movement in the context of the adaptation of Brazil to the new international division of labour.

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fact, you are confused. The only facts are that the congress voted to oust Goulart and later for military intervention. I personally don't see it as a Coup, considering it didn't violate the constitution and had popular and congressional support. You'd have a much better case calling the 1967 military constitution a Coup than the 1964 intervention.

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Magalhães Pinto, of Minas Gerais, and Ademar of Barros, of São Paulo) states and wide middle class sections asked and they stimulated the military intervention, as form of putting end to the communism threat. If in 1917 the communism in Brazil was still seen as a remote danger, "alien" and "exotic", little by little he was if turning closer.

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hindsight). The communists did not launch a counterstrike, and, when they did mobilize, they were only capable of isolated acts of terrorism. This was not the case in Colombia. In the end, one civil war should not be used to explain (let alone justify) another civil war. Attempts at such an analogy only obscure the facts of the situation. --(

3848:(we can't even know for sure if that would really happen) to modernize the country's (capitalist) economy to avoid economical collapse, and give some benefits to workers in exchange for political support. Hardly the Godless commie-lovin' dictator-wannabe anti-American bastard the supporters of the coup wanted the world to believe he was. -- 2079:

higher quality than the EN Knowledge version we have right now. Although the PT wikipedia version uses offline sources, it relies mainly on Elio Gaspari's account of the dictatorship years, which is arguably the benchmark with which all others are measured, and I'll try to corroborate with online sources where possible.--

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is anachrnism --he can´t say, after it happened (no revolution) that it would never have happened and it was just a military excuse. So, comparing my citation from Passarinho to the one from Page, Iam sure, it´s better to deal with facts: the kidnapping happened (and was just a feature of a real communist threat).

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One of your sources is the BBC. I don't know how anyone can argue they are not left wing. BBC is the state controlled broadcasting company in the UK, Around date that your source was published (2004), the UK parliament was Labour Controlled from 1997-2010. Completely non POV objective reasoning. I'll

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I'm flabbergasted, but encouraged. This was not your original contribution (far from it, this is, indeed, a literal translation with no original research or conclusion). You literally translated the same thing I did, but moved it to the middle of the article! There are several translation and grammar

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Segundo CPDOC: Entretanto, o golpe militar foi saudado por importantes setores da sociedade brasileira. Grande parte do empresariado, da imprensa, dos proprietários rurais, Carlos Lacerda e Cordeiro de Farias (1955). da Igreja católica, vários governadores de estados importantes (como Carlos Lacerda,

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The 1964 coup was fully supported by society: mid-class, entrepeneurs, media. A public manifestation, A Marcha da Família com Deus e pela Liberdade (The march of Family with God for Freedom) is one of the most remarkable ones. This march marked a social attitude against the imminnet communist threat.

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O golpe militar foi saudado por importantes setores da sociedade brasileira. Grande parte do empresariado, da imprensa, dos proprietários rurais, da Igreja Católica, vários governadores de estados importantes (como Carlos Lacerda, da Guanabara, Magalhães Pinto, de Minas Gerais, e Ademar de Barros, de

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Iam sorry, according to the source I´ve cited, the paragrapgh I worte describes the cousas of the coup. If you yhink these were not the cuses you have to prove. Teh burden is yours. And again you deleting all my paragraphs and editions. I asked you: why do you think artcile are all yours and you have

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Speaking of POV, I just finished reading Walter's autobiography, SIlent Missions, as well as the American Involvement section of the Knowledge article. Re the latter: I can't find in Kornbluh's article any mention of Walters' communication with LBJ. Indeed, Walters cites Amb. Gordon's testimony under

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events of 1964 that I could find. The article can't be POV because it only describes facts: it makes no conclusions or offers no analysis about them (with the exception of your analysis of Jarbas Passarinho at the bottom). I'm removing the tag until you can specifically mention what you feel is POV.--

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There's no need. He's only describing facts--not providing opinion. He's not (and neither is the article) saying the coup was good or bad, but describing the sequence of events. Unfortunately, I cannot find an online source which provides the same degree of depth as he does, so at this point he's not

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I propose the first citation, from Joseh Page (aome historian) should also be deleted. It states teh revolution that never was. I ask: how can he say that the revolution would never have happened? A reasonable answer is that: the revolution never happened because of the military intervention. So this

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all sought better ties with Brazilian leftists, they did not provide arms to the government (which, again, was populist socialist and not communist) or to civilian communist activists (who had no control within the federal government). The fact that the Brazilian government participated in diplomatic

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I take it you've already conceded the fact that Goulart was ousted by the congress, seeing how you've now resorted to moving the goalpost. Whether it's really a Coup or not it's a matter of POV entirely. The overwhelmingly left-oriented media sources calling it a Coup doesn't make that an historical

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I've edited the article with the following rationale: 1)"Coup" vs. "maneuver"/"revolution" - While it is perfectly reasonable to mention the dichotomy of coup vs. revolution between the different sectors of Brazilian society, the bottom line is that this was in fact a coup d'etat, whether one was in

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The perception of a "communist danger" in Brazil went by a process of growing "materialization", until reaching its climax with the Revolt of 1935. Like this, after the Russian Revolution of 1917, they had room in the country the creation of Communist Party of Brazil (then Party Brazilian Communist.

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According to José Guilherme Merquior: "Government instability, disintegration of the system supporting, virtual paralysis of the capacity of the Legislative, misleading attitudes on the part of president Goulart, towards anything with regard to the succession; the threat acted by a land reform badly

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Entretanto, o golpe militar foi saudado por importantes setores da sociedade brasileira. Grande parte do empresariado, da imprensa, dos proprietários rurais, Carlos Lacerda e Cordeiro de Farias (1955). da Igreja católica, vários governadores de estados importantes (como Carlos Lacerda, da Guanabara,

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que o regime democrático instituído no Brasil após 1945 não fora suficiente para se contrapor a esse inimigo. Os militares, no entanto, sempre enfatizaram, com razão, o fato de que "não estavam sós", isto é, que o golpe de 1964 não foi de sua exclusiva iniciativa, e sim resultado da confluência e do

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Yeah, that's not how it works. When you're adding a POV tag, you need to mention specifically what you feel is POV in the article. You have to get off this whole "communism" thing--you're painting as if there's this huge conspiracy. I used Gaspari because he's the most comprehensive historian of the

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Yeah, there's a whole section missing about the newspaper headlines and how the CGT strike in support of Jango never happened. There's also the student protests on the 1st and the removal of Miguel Arraes. I'm gonna work on it later today, as well as integrate your contributions into it. The problem

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Em nota de redação, a Folha explicou que "O regime militar (1964-1985) passou por diferentes fases. No contexto da polarização da época, que dividia o país, a Folha aprovou a deposição do presidente Goulart. Esteve sob censura entre 1969 e 1983, quando a supressão das liberdades públicas atingiu seu

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That´s a question with no answer. The facts speak for themselves: they did it, and they were communits --so, the threat was real. The other fact is that as time went by, they kdinapped other embassador, and then by 1969 they had to stop because the army worked on it. It makes one think that if there

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include that, but I need to point out that I will provide citations which show that media outlets continued to exist under all of the juntas, and journals under all of the juntas (in Paraguay, in Argentina, in Chile and in Brazil) were shut down when they went to far in criticizing the government...

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a communist party. Goulart was a proud Catholic who, like Vargas and Quadros before him, promoted populist socialist social programs. Communism is absolute. For communists there will be complete "collective ownership" of the means of production; there will be the abolition of religion; there will be

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From my latest edit, I've only deleted the last two lines which are opinion and somewhat redundant. It's not that the article omits the causes of the coup: It gives ample mention to the events that preceded the coup, such as the sailor's revolt, Goulart's promise to nationalize oil, etc. You wanted

3663:. Castro further argues that the 1964 coup was supported by some important sectors of society: two conservative parties (PSD and UDN) the business class, land owners, the media and the Catholic church, as well as the governors of important states such as Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais and São Paulo. 3538:

1. "Instabilidade governamental, desintegração do sistema partidário, virtual paralisia da capacidade decisória do Legislativo, atitudes equívocas por parte do presidente Goulart, quando nada com respeito à sucessão; a ameaça representada por uma reforma agrária mal definida; inquietação militar em

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but you said conclusion are not allowe. Wow, you seem to be very confused. Bith surces talk abt a communist threat: locally an globally. The also mention teh appearence of communist party, sailor´s revolt, political instabiltity, Goulart´s social reforms. Both sources call it no longer a threat but

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As causas imediatas do colapso do regime da Carta de 1946 são assim resumidas por José Guilherme Merquior: "Instabilidade governamental, desintegração do sistema partidário, virtual paralisia da capacidade decisória do Legislativo, atitudes equívocas por parte do presidente Goulart, quando nada com

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Notice that in writing this, I've kept it facts-only. No analysis. No "why it happened", just "what happened". I've retained the Jarbas Passarinho quote, as it provides an insider's perspective on things. "Context" is tricky, so let's just make sure any discussions we have are confined to a section

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section (although it will probably have to go through a few drafts before either of us are content with it). I object to the inclusion of Passarinho's views on (La Violencia), for the initial waves of violence took place between the Liberals and the Conservatives. The communists took advantage of a

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I have cut your new section (quoted at the bottom of my comment in full), and will explain point by point my reasoning. I have added a new sentence to the introduction which states: "Some historians, including Jarbas Passarinho, argue that the threat of both global and local communist movements was

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China and the Soviet Union are not in the neighborhood, and the Cubans wrested power through guerrilla warfare, not legislation which was promoted by democratically elected presidents or through Brizola's militias (as Brizola was quite openly in favor of the democratically elected president and the

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The same link: Passarinho talk sabt the need of taking a decison towards pro or against communism. There was no populist socialist, as we agreed Fernando Henrique Cardoso was considered a communist. There was use of "social something" by that time...You are or you are not communist. Well, I ask you

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I posted an article from the House of Representatives of Brazil, try to keep up. Do you seriously believe that a media source like the BBC or a history blog are more reliable source and more NPOV than an admission from the congress themselves that they ousted the president? you've already lost the

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I propose the elimination of the whole "Historical Context" section. It does not provide any meaningful "context" to the coup; instead, it repeats the pretexts offered by the gorillas in a rather acritical manner. Whether these people "believed" in a "communist threat" it immaterial; such "threat"

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Segundo JGM: "Instabilidade governamental, desintegração do sistema partidário, virtual paralisia da capacidade decisória do Legislativo, atitudes equívocas por parte do presidente Goulart, quando nada com respeito à sucessão; a ameaça representada por uma reforma agrária mal definida; inquietação

1901:). Assuming that the source shows that Jarbas Passarinho explicitly mentioned the kidnapping, then perhaps the best thing to do is to reword the section to clarify exactly what Passarinho said and to indicate somehow that it is only a speculation. Unfortunately I cannot read the Portuguese source. 1361:

was still working" is unscientific: a weakened congress continued to exist throughout Stroessner's 35 years of power in Paraguay, as well as Castro's 47 years of power in Cuba. This does not alter the fact that the citizens, the media and even the congresses themselves were subject to some form of

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I've reviewed the "Foreign involvement" since it had maintenance tags since 2021. I confirmed that the section had several problems, including original research and primary sources. I've placed inline tags, removed unsourced or repeated content and merged the section with the rest of the article.

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I think the important point to retain here is that Goulart was perceived as a left-wing alternative at a time when the Brazilian Communist Party was semi-clandestine. Unlike his opponents in UDN or PSD, he had the backing of the labour movement (whether trade unions in Brazil were free from state

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the democratic institutions of Brazil would not be enough to halt that. There's a world of difference between saying that the military rationalized their actions as such and your passage, which states as a matter of fact that this danger was real. The only point where the author agrees with ("com

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You make no rational arguments other than to say you don't agree, and revert even grammar corrections that I've made. And you've consistently attacked me personally, questioning my age and now, somewhat humorously, calling me a "communist". How can I take you seriously if you are oblivious to the

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I'm tagging this article as NPOV, as by removing Joseph Page, it becomes monolithic in its defense of the dictatorship. Tomorrow I'm re-writing the entire article, incorporating existing material where possible, with the help of the PT Knowledge version of this article, which is far larger and of

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It's obvious your intention is to push your viewpoint, and not to improve the actual article. It's an almost childish "tit-for-tat" where because you had a broken link (still do, in fact) and your paragraph fell apart structurally because of it, you feel inclined to remove the one paragraph which

1325:, that is outright speculation (after all a civil war did not take place: it turned out that the populist socialists were not organized at all, and that the communists were only capable of carrying out isolated acts of terrorism), and, as such, should not be inserted into an encyclopedic article; 1173:

Secondly, my recent cited additions regarding the mobilization of the left (by Brizola and others), explain that this mobilization was openly taking place in order to protect the left-wing President Goulart (and therefore the federal government and the constitution) from a military rebellion or a

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The new merger debate is over: the old page was deleted, and that page was redirected here (this was done by another user, but I am in complete agreement with the decision). I revised your latest edits; tinker with them at will, and let me know what you think. I also added a {huh} template (which

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The article writes:"The friction between the military and João Goulart boiled over with his intervention in a revolt by sailors of the Brazilian Navy led by José Anselmo dos Santos, historically known as Corporal Anselmo, and later exposed as an agent provocateur. On March 25, 1964, nearly 2,000

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There in the first line...I know Goulart is populist, but do populist=left-wing in English? He was capitalist n' lovin' it, from what I know, being friends with Vargas (fascist sympathizer populist). He wasn't even a social-democrat! He fully supported the United States government diplomatically

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there is the need to offer details to the global view, as you suggested. The article is abt Brasil and a world threat. Those who want to know abt Cold War, Castro, etc. should clikc on link and search these articles. You can provide, yes, citations abt media´s resistence. The citation I provided

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Hello Ptah, Well, as for "explaining" may be once we talk abt Passarinho, as you yourself said, we have to provide quotations and citations just as I did --just as you want to provide from your historian, from liberals xx democrats (this also requires quotations and citations), etc. Passarinho´s

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While he contributed articles to a communist sponsored journal, he was never a communist party member. Both he and his father were members of the Partido Trabalhista Brasileiro who worked in coalition with the communist party at a legislative level when they needed to, but that was the extent of

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Within two years, in accord with concessions promised to the U.S. government for its financial support of the overthrow, foreign companies gained control of about half of the Brazilian industry. This type of foreign intrusion was often accomplished through combined fiscal and monetary measures,

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The threat was real, yes, for teh authors cited, for the militaries, for me, for the americans --and they all based thsion local guerillas, Cuba, Soviet Union, China, etc... A real threat. The issue here is that whether ot not you wnat to make of all these articles a "wonder land" of communism,

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However, the military blow was greeted by important sections of the Brazilian society. Great part of the business community, of the press, of the rural proprietors, Carlos Lacerda and Lamb of Farias (1955). of the Church Catholic, several governors of important (as Carlos Lacerda, of Guanabara,

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2) military insubordination was tied to the populist socialist, not communist, politicians. If you disagree with this point, I would like to see a direct and explicit quotation which identifies the ties these insubordinate soldiers and naval officers had with communist politicians or activists;

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to back the claim. The source says "The National Congress approved, early this Thursday (21 November 2013), cancellation of the session of the Congress of 2 April 1964 that declared vacant the office of the President João Goulart". According to the chronology presented in the article, the coup

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Ptah, I read your citations concerning the last paragraph of the article: there is no citation on FHC as a socialist or populist. He consideres himself a social-democrat today --but he was widely considered a communist, not a socialist or populist. These words were not used. As Passarinho said

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section (it is already included in one of my block quotes), but, at the same time, avoid stating it in a way which equates insubordination with communism. The globalsecurity source explains that "Goulart carried his populism too far when he backed proposals for noncommissioned officers to hold

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3)Lincoln Gordon's history and further details about the dictatorship - This article is related to the events that immediately preceded and immediately followed the military takeover. We should keep information about persons and future events to their respective articles (which are already in

3704:?), so I'm merging both and placing them in the analysis section, as again, there's a narrative which you're breaking by inserting a random section named "The historical meaning of the words "threat of communism" in the middle of a narration that describes the specific events that happened. -- 1079:

Hello Ptah, Can you please explain to me how come a conutry with democratic left-wing presidents could have also faced widely social democratical movements? I also want to know who are these left wing democratic presidents? As far as I know, Lula da Silva is the first left-wing to governe the

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need to stop questioning my motivations and getting personal--it doesn't further discussion and you're already one step away from arbitration for your past behavior. I'm not going to be as patient this time as I was in the past. As always, we can bring in a third-opinion to weigh in if you'd

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It indeed look better, in my opinion, to say the names of those socialist presidents. Janio QUdros offered a medal to Che Guevarra at his office, which caused much shame to the majority of brazilian society. Although I stiil believe that they are not left-wing, but had "more" social worries.

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Again, the situation was completely different from Colombia. The vast majority of leftists were members of Partido Trabalhista Brasileiro, and, while Brizola claimed that he had mobilized 200,000 to defend the federal government from the conservatives, this proved false (admittedly, through

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intervention is a totally different matter). His government had the support of many a left-wing intellectual, many of them from the Brazilian Communist Party. And his "basic reforms" were the brain child of social democratic economists such as Celso Furtado and Maria da Conceição Tavares.

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was still open and operating. This public support, which lasted until mid seventies (1974), was extended to entrepreneurs, business people, mid class, who also supported the ARENA, the situationist party . Thus throughout Brazilian history , one observes a steady tradition of conservative

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I agree that it is a very important part of history, that is why the second sentence of the article explains it. Insubordination is indeed very important, but, unless there is specific information which has not been translated into English, the military and naval officers involved were

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defined; military inquietude in face of the tolerance of the government to the sergeants' mutinies; and growing radicalism, as much of the right as of the you are, everything this complemented by the inflation in discharge and, for the frightening ghost of the Cuban revolution". .

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real." I included your citation... If we are going to bring up Castro, Guevara, Mao or Stalin and/or Khrushchev, we will need to explain each inclusion specifically. If you think a paragraph should be dedicated to explaining this, I think we could easily make room for it in the

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I do not see how the junta's censorship was any softer than Stroessner's censorship, nor does it make a difference that various media outlets supported his coup (Stroessner was as well). Every dictatorship or junta allows some media to thrive--the outlets that agree with them.

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Do not remove, revert nor delete this section. Source provided are very good and there are many like this. The burden fo proof is yrs if you don´r agree, since sources are there. Keep the tag there as well, you haven´t provided diverified sources, only gapari´s. That´s POV.

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PCB) in 1922; the conversion of the leader "tenentista" Luís Carlos Prestes to the communism, in May of 1930, and his/her departure for the Soviet Union, the following year; and the appearance, in March of 1935, of the National Alliance Libertadora, ruled by communists.

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You've been adding analysis on why the coup happened. That's fine, but as I've said before, you need to adhere to the policies I've mentioned countless times, which you don't. When I edit your contributions, I check them to see if they adhere to policies such as

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supported by society. Is the whole of society composed by the middle class, entrepreneurs and the media? What about the lower ranks of the military, the poor and the disenfranchised? I don't know if they opposed the coup, but the source doesn't mention it.

3428:

1. Entretanto, o golpe militar foi saudado por importantes setores da sociedade brasileira. Grande parte do empresariado, da imprensa, dos proprietários rurais, Carlos Lacerda e Cordeiro de Farias (1955). da Igreja católica, vários governadores de estados

930:

Ok, then. I didn´t know it should be there because of a single {citation needed}. I thought only when there was plenty tags like that. How long it wil ltak to decide the merger? I think this article can be developed even more, there is a lot os history

3459:

da Guanabara, Magalhães Pinto, de Minas Gerais, e Ademar de Barros, de São Paulo) e amplos setores de classe média pediram e estimularam a intervenção militar, como forma de pôr fim à ameaça de esquerdização do governo e de controlar a crise econômica

4159:

was a motivator for their actions is fact. That the threat was or was not real is an opinion--one may agree or disagree. It's not necessary to violate NPOV to make the same point: that the military did what they did because they saw a threat. And you

3716:

You said I could not conclude anything, so I only translated. An dyou deleted. Yr artcile does not explain teh causes --it omits the causes of the coup --you don´t want to tell the truth: communists are to blame and omit history. Wikipédia is a fun!!

4034:

a threat. And I'm not disputing the latter: My point is we don't need to justify or condemn the coup according to whether the threat was real or not. All we need to do is what what happened and how the military justified it. This is a clear case of

1874:

was not a military action they would have continued --as they were in fact planning. And make one guess that if there was no military government, Brasil would now be like Cuba, S. Union or China. It´s not up to me to guess anything, only to write.

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1) the military's belief in a supposedly imminent communist threat is already mentioned in the second sentence of the article. An additional citation is welcome, but should be added to the citation already present at the end of this sentence;

3452:

militar em face da tolerância do governo aos motins dos sargentos; e radicalismo crescente, tanto da direita como da esquerda (...), tudo isto complementado pela inflação em alta e, naturalmente, pelo fantasma assustador da revolução cubana"

4102:

seria endossar a posição americana de que há de fato uma ameaça, o que não é necessário--independentemente se está correto ou errado. No caso do golpe, não precisamos abrir uma discussão sobre se a ameaça era real ou falsa. Basta dizer que

1399:

Please respond below to any of my points which you would like to contend, and do not feel the need to rush (after all, this article is a work in progress, it does not matter how long it takes for us to resolve any of our disagreements)...

1190:

But I´d like to maintain because this is a very important part of history, no one denies the communist threat; your citation talks abt a revolution that never happened, but my citation talks abt insubordination and a world reality that is

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1174:

right-wing civil insurrection. I also pointed out, with a citation, that these pro-government left-wing militias failed to form and resist when the right-wing civilians and the military came together for the '64 coup we are discussing. --

3127:

democracy was generalized. No matter how much it was exaggerated, the perception of a "communist threat" in Brazil was not just a phantasmagoria: there was real intention of the communists of arriving to the power for revolutionary means

3625:, the perception of a communist threat in Brazil became increasingly tangible until it reached its climax with the 1935 Revolt. He cites events leading to a growing anti-communism in the armed forces, such as: the Russian Revolution ( 5478:, "Phyllis Parker was a graduate student at the University of Texas, doing research for her master’s thesis, when she stumbled across recently declassified documents at the LBJ library detailing U.S. support for the Brazilian coup". 4237:. It would be nice to include some more left-leaning historians, but I tried really hard to write that section in a way that it does not endorse those historians' points of view. I'll actually go ahead and remove Jarbas Passarinho.-- 3617:; military restlessness towards government tolerance to insubordination; and a growing radicalism, by both left and right wings (...) all compounded by high inflation and, naturally, the frightening phantom of the Cuban Revolution. 1370:

I don´t agree, still a soft censorship, and brazilian media, tv, newspapers such as, Rede Globo, Estado de S. Paulo and Folha de S Paulo supported the coup. They were against censorship --but not against militaries. They were also

3868:

By the way, I have edited the first half of this article last week only to find all my changes and additions completely scraped off. And I don't believe I have added anything controversial that would justify such a harsh measure.

3539:

face da tolerância do governo aos motins dos sargentos; e radicalismo crescente, tanto da direita como da esquerda (...), tudo isto complementado pela inflação em alta e, naturalmente, pelo fantasma assustador da revolução cubana"

5448:), which is much broader than Brother Sam. Asking this in article talk wouldn't be necessary if you could just be patient enough to read a little more. If you want a recent, open acess, English-language secondary source, there's 5429:, "Because the lead will usually repeat information that is in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material". 3350:

Imaginavam xx No matter how much it was exaggerated, the perception of a "communist threat" in Brazil was not just a phantasmagoria: there was real intention of the communists of arriving to the power for revolutionary means.

2997:

2566:

5445: 4801:

was never president elect. He was a loser in the 1960 election. It just so happened that in the 1960s electoral process, the runner up in presidential elections would occupy the vice presidency. But after President elect

3857:

From your reasoning I reckon nobody can be a left-winger AND believe in a market oriented economy at the same time. We're not sticking to Soviet orthodoxy here, are we? Or are we equating "left-winger" with "Bolshevist"?

3160:

razão") is that the military were not alone in this (and it is properly addressed in the text with the march reference). My point is: it is not for you or I to decide whether the danger was real or not. We cite sources,

4748:, Congress then came in support of the coup (that had already happened) and legalized it by declaring vacant the office of the presidency. But, as the article and the sources say, the president had already been ousted. 2217:, by the way. The second paragraph contains useful info I'll be moving into the analysis section: again, let's keep any justification or analysis to its own section. I want to stick to the facts as much as possible.-- 291: 181: 2665:

I've copyedited for grammar, style and NPOV. I've moved this section as it is justifying or describing the motivations for the coup in a global sense (IE: not talking about events that transpired during the actual

2338:

oath in 1977 that the coup was "100% Brazilian" (p.389(. Walters adds that the first he heard of "Brother Sam" was in 1977, and in the same chapter dismisses all US moves as routine military contingency planning.

990:

I've reinstated the {huh} (clarify) template within the sentence regarding Diretas Já, as I think that readers who are unfamiliar with the movement will need more information to understand its role and purpose.

3731:. So now we've added sources both of us find reliable, are properly cited and are identified at the end of the article, addressing the causes of the coup. Is there anything else you feel we should discuss?-- 2704:

Again, it's not just because they talk about "causes of the coup" that you're allowed to say whatever you want: he needs to say exactly what you're saying, and you're not allowed to synthesize conclusions.

5241:

Any other source other than the book? I don't think it's actually true, but I might me wrong, someone should be able to check it quite easily. It may just be the result of a more liberal policy and not an

4196:, we should strive to keep personal analysis out of the text. The same goes for the last portion of Historical Context, which while may very well be true, does not meet any of the criteria for inclusion. 4697:

The military overthrew the standing government and replaced it with a military government and rewrote the constitution. For 20 years, successive military presidents were chosen by and from the military.

4834:

Just to correct an unhistorical statement for anyone who may read: Goulart never lost the Presidential election because he never run for Presidency. He ran for Vice Presidency and was elected as that.

2181:

Looks good. I´d like to see more commets on the social support: as it was mentioned on the previous article, society (media, mid-class, entrepenerus wanted the coup in order to avoid communis threat).

4233:

That section was inserted in order to acommodate a long-departed editor with a very particular viewpoint. However, I think that with the exception of Jarbas Passarinho, both historians mentioned meet

3613:"governmental instability, disintegration of the party system, erroneous attitudes by president Goulart (if not none at all) towards presidential sucession; the threat represented by a poorly-planned 5599: 296: 2737:

specific points I bring up. If you'd like, I can ask for a third opinion yet again, but considering the last one disagreed with you and blatantly ignored him, I fail to see what good that will do.--

1911:

You bring up a good point. The link for the Jarbas Passarinho quote is dead, apparently, and it accounts for half of the paragraph. Without that half sourced, the rest of the section falls apart. I

1106:

were all populist left-wingers. As the intent of the statement was not clear, I have rewritten it: "As the political climate had become more divisive under the populist left-wing administrations of

1094:

First off, I think you may have misunderstood one edit. The original statement, "as the nation had been democratically governed by a string of populist left-wing Presidents," is, in fact, correct:

35: 1802:

and that Brasil could have had the same fate if it was not the military government. He also point out that although censorship was severe, it was Latin America's softest since media supported the

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threat" of communism. In the former, you are implying that the threat was real, in the latter, you're not judging whether or not it was real, but you are merely stating that people at the time

4151:

Well, my point is saying it's real doesn't add anything in explaining why the military did what they did. Saying it was real would be tantamount to defending the coup and a grave violation of

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and that Brasil could have had the same fate if it was not the miliary government. He also point out that although censorship was severe, it was Latin America´s softest since media and the

1213:

tied to the communist party or communist activists. That link was never proven. Therefore, it is very important that we mention the effect of this insubordination on the military within the

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state what they say (no more, no less), and let the reader decide. You're jumping to conclusions by misquoting sources and adding your own interpretation, or are you going to tell me that

905:

The unsourced articles category will remain until all of the {citation needed} templates have been removed. I plan to address the last citation needed template by the weekend. Regards, --(

843:: However, since Brazilian 1964 Revolution is completely POV and inacurate I think it would best be deleted, not merged. Revolution is a term used by the coup supporters, and only by them. 780: 315: 185: 3497:

That's it? You're saying I'm wrong? No rational argument? No justification pointing out what you wrote and what the source wrote? Give me a comparison of what you wrote and then show me

3219:

It shoudn´t be moved to Analyis section. It fits better under a "The meaning of the words threat of communism". it´s not a mere analysis --it is the only reason why the coup happened!!!

2866:

It shoudn´t be moved to Analyis section. It fits better under a "The meaning of the words threat of communism". it´s not a mere analysis --it is the only reason why the coup happened!!!

2435:

It shoudn´t be moved to Analyis section. It fits better under a "The meaning of the words threat of communism". it´s not a mere analysis --it is the only reason why the coup happened!!!

1788:. Jânio Quadros's tribute to Che Guevara (August 19, 1961), Goulart's trip to China, and the reestablishment of diplomatic relations with Soviet Union were among possible threats to the 820:. However, all of my sources are English texts, so it would be interesting to receive some input from a Brazilian citizen or anyone with a strong command of the Portuguese language. --( 5594: 4862:

By trying to disqualify a source by simply calling it "left-wing" (without showing any solid/valid source of your own that would contradict the article) already show a POV intention.

967:

needs to be explained in greater detail... I completely agree with you that this page needs quite a bit more work, and I also plan on adding and editing more when I have the time. --(

4280:

There's a random anonymous editor who is trying to whitewash this article. You just caught one of his edits. Look up the history of the article and you'll see the original. Cheers.--

3137:

Os militares que apoiaram o golpe justificaram seus atos afirmando que seu objetivo era restaurar a disciplina e a hierarquia nas Forças Armadas e destruir o "perigo comunista" que,

3095:

São Paulo) e amplos setores de classe média pediram e estimularam a intervenção militar, como modo de pôr fim à ameaça de esquerdização do governo e de se controlar a crise econômica

2251:

I´d like to see Gaspari´s citations all deleted or diminished, since he is a communist supporter. Can you find a more diversified range of citations, not only frm one single author.

894:

No worries about the merger: the debate has already ended, and the statements above regard an earlier merger request regarding a different article which was deleted per a CfD debate.

5684: 5292: 5238:"constructive bankruptcy" that caused the choice of selling out or going broke. By 1971, of the 19 of Brazil's 27 largest companies that were not state-owned, 14 were foreign-owned 2725:. When I'm able to incorporate them (such as the Jarbas quote), I do. Otherwise, I delete them, and (as I've done above) I justify it by specifically citing what I believe is wrong. 1883:

You're bending yourself backwards to defend the dictatorship. You're arguing that they were planning the kidnapping in 1964. Again, my point stands: causality is the problem here.--

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Trying to rubbish the BBC (which you clearly don't understand) as a source is not the same thing as providing a reliable source to support your highly personal view of history.

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The 1964 Brazilian coup d'état occurs during the Easter Octave of 1964 because its Easter Sunday was a 29 March and its Low Sunday (Quasimodo) was a 5 April. Injust reversion!

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and that Brasil could have had the same fate if it was not the miliary government. He also point out that althoug censorship was severe, it was latin america´s softest since

3166:"the perception of a "communist threat" in Brazil was not just a phantasmagoria: there was real intention of the communists of arriving to the power for revolutionary means" 1691:

states a letter from Folha de S. Paulo on which it acknowledges support to militaries until freedom of speech was threathned --then they supported democracy and Diretas Já.

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Well, Diretas Já, gathered 1.5 million people claimming for democracy: "finally respond" means that they would get what they wanted after so many years fighting for it!!

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renounced, Goulart never had popular support or congressional support. He was seen as a communist threat by a majority of the brazilian population as well as congress.

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