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1678:. Also, consider that the editor's comment on Ray alyoum is conditional! Regarding the your suggestion; I'm in favor of adding the material without "diplomatic cover" accompanying it. I did check the sources, that's why I pointed out to the WP:OR issue. I'm not/should not be against "well-sourced fact"s, that's why I asked you for further details. You need sources that exactly show your point. --
42:
898:
1014:. Feel free to chime in. You still need to add the other sources and establish a more neutral viewpoint. The Iranians were not simply innocent diplomats wrongfully kidnapped (and presumably executed). Sources outside of Iran establish what those guys were doing and it needs to be reflected in the article.
1205:
Based on the four sources I pointed out, there appears to be more to the story. Motevaselian wasn't simply traveling through, he was there leading IRGC intervention in South
Lebanon which explains why they were likely executed. That's what those four sources make out. Until the article reflects the
1577:
but that term describes more concisely what she's saying. Do you have an alternate suggestion for how to describe what
Moteveselian, a military officer in command of IRGC forces in Lebanon, was doing using a diplomatic-plated vehicle to drive from the Iranian embassy in Damascus into Lebanon? The
1068:
You seem to be informed enough in this field as you said: "the
Iranians were not simply innocent diplomats wrongfully kidnapped." I'll reflect those sources "outside of Iran establish what those guys were doing," if you could find any. The last time I expanded the article, I searched for various
1633:
Crenshaw makes out that his assignment was military in nature (leading
Iranian intervention) in an undeclared war; the fact that the Iranian government sent him in a diplomatic vehicle is diplomatic cover. That's what it is. Why was a so-called "military attache" assigned to Damascus in Lebanon?
1606:
What I know is that we have to adhere to the reliable sources. We don't need to reflect our own understandings of the things. if sources have not explicitly said otherwise, I'm totally against adding such things. However, we can/should add that he was in command of a military unit, just how the
1728:
The sole reply, as I said, brings you a clear condition, i.e. "unless it's absolutely critical for GAN, and you think it will stand up there." Also, I've shown why the paper is reliable and your concern does not tarnish the reliability of the source. For the same reason we added your suggestion
1886:
Failing this article is an excellent choice. I have no investment in the outcome of this review beyond the fact that anything I put my name on has to be good. Perhaps you ought to consider what you think is more important: having this promoted or sticking by what I think is a weak source.
833:
After a long back and forth between myself and the nominator I've determined that further conversation will only serve to embitter me. This article suffers from real problems with NPOV and despite my efforts to find a reasonable compromise I find I am unable to call this a good article.
1638:
simply to compromise and move this review forward. I'm concerned that you seem to not be reading the source material. I pointed out the sources and you didn't notice them, then I mentioned it and you didn't understand why that content is important, and now you seem to resist the term
1155:
is "a military expert who is attached to a diplomatic mission" and that "this post is normally filled by a high-ranking military officer who retains the commission while serving in an embassy"? Yes, we know that he was a commander. What do you want to conclude? Thanks.
985:
and I'm not seeing that. My concern is that Shaker
Kasraee either wasn't really there or he's not a reputable journalist. I know nothing about Persian news outlets but a cursory search in Farsi didn't reveal anything showing "reliable third-party publication." However,
1177:"...Ahmad Motevaselian was the most well-known of the abductees because of his service in the Iran-Iraq war. The 27th Mohammad Rasoul-Allah Brigade, under his command, played an important role in Liberation of Khorramshahr, a "turning point" in the war."
1818:
doesn't impress me. (I don't trust much of what they publish, either.) If you want to substitute other sources to cover that material then go ahead. We'll wait for a second opinion, you can remove that content, or I can simply fail this nomination.
563:
I trimmed out a small piece where it mentions the Jewish camp being a heritage site. I removed that and it's reference since the whole paragraph is really
Iranian propaganda and that citation made it appear as if it were better sourced.
47:
942:
in the journey the diplomats were kidnapped. His narration of the events before the kidnapping is essential as a witness. 2- Ray al-Youm is an important Arabic news source, as far as I know. As you know, per
1708:. Since I'm the reviewer it's my call. Remove that citation and the content it supports or I cannot consider that this article passes 2B, in which case it fails. I can request a second-opinion, if you wish.
1779:
Thanks but unfortunately you failed to show that the source is not reliable. You alleged that it's a biased source and apparently don't pay attention that reliable sources don't have to be neutral per
1229:: As far as I know, IRGC had left syria for Iran at the time they were kidnapped. However, I really like to have a drafted version of your suggestion. I'm willing to add all the main points, too. --
1851:, meaning that the paper has an editorial board. The fact that the source is referred to by other reliable sources adds weight. Besides the sources I mentioned in my previous comments, see how
1783:. As a reviewer, you are expected to explain why the source is not reliable. Your report at RSN led to a conditional response accompanied by my detailed explanation proving the reliability. --
126:
1922:
comment where I tried to show the reliability? Do you have things to say against them? Please read them carefully, as a reviewer. By the way, some parts of the material is republished by
1750:"from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged"
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substantiates everything in that sentence including
Akhavan's employment with IRNA, his attendance on the trip, and the fact that he departed from Damascus. We don't need the blog.
1464:
I think that provides the necessary explanation while identifying a difference in point of view. Will that work for you? These are changes you should be making as the nominator.
107:
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mentions that the group was in a car with diplomatic plates when they were stopped. With how many
Iranian sources you're using, you need every non-Iranian source you can find.
1674:
Your repeated RSN topic opening without referring to the background and with standing on merely one opinion is not really acceptable. That would be find if you could refer to
749:
There are no images, yet. That's not an issue for this article to pass but it would be awesome if we had something we could include. I'll offer suggestions if I see anything.
1369:
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apparent
Iranian deception involved it doesn't cover the main points and isn't neutral enough to pass GA standards. If you need suggestions on what I would add, please ask.
1634:
Since when do military attaches who work in embassies assist partisans in guerrilla wars? If it rankles you, I'd be fine adding the material I suggested without the phrase
99:
1643:. I hope you can edit this subject free of any nationalistic conflict of interest. I cannot pass this as a GA with such a glaring omission of well-sourced fact. Also,
1856:
1141:
I checked you're sources. Do you want me to add that
Motevasselian was "in command of the 27th Brigade" or something like this? So, what? Do you know that he was a
212:
80:
1752:. I have, therefore, asked for a second opinion. It may be a few days. If an answer is not quickly forthcoming I'll fail this nomination and you can try again.
2065:). I did based on the admin's suggestion, as the material was important enough to be included here. In spite of this, the reviewer demanded another opinion. --
947:, "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective." But, if you are questioning the reliability of the source, we may discuss it at
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the second opinion by one of the admins, suggesting a solution to the concern raised by you. So, I changed the wording, made appropriate attributions and
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The good news is, there's no original research because the text sticks to what the sources say. The bad news is, the sources aren't very neutral.
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Qureshi, Muhammad A (December 4, 2014). "Understanding the Iran-Hezbollah Nexus from the Perspective of Operational Art" (Document).
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that the material could be removed, if it was not important. The second user, who's an admin, on the basis of RSs' pointing to
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This article has a pro-Iranian bias mostly due to the heavy reliance on Iranian sources. I understand some have to be used but
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367:; it looks horribly slanted which I could allow at least from Iranian media but this looks not much better than a blog.
2039:
Most of the issues with the article were resolved. However, the first reviewer raised concern over the reliability of
1042:(Islamic Republic News Agency), Shaker Kasraee was there! Anyway, I changed the source, thanks for that UPI source. --
1298:
Indeed, he had been chosen to lead the Iranian expeditionary force in Lebanon because of his success in crushing the
738:
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sources to maintain the required neutrality. However, please present "those" sources, if you know them. Thanks. --
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sources say. By the way, can I know how you reached to the term "diplomatic cover" from "what she was saying." --
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seems to indicate the Rai al-Youm source needs to go, so please remove that content with the citation as well.
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to my eyes, unless you can show that sources are explicitly saying that (or something like that). Thanks. --
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agrees. There has to be some balance in this article to reflect that this wasn't just a kidnapping/murder.
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twice, and received feedback the second time. No one said that the source was unreliable. The first user
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I provided four sources in section 4 (WaPo, DTIC, AEI, and JCPA) six days ago. Didn't you see those?
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232:, I think you ought to remove the bolding in the first sentence. It doesn't make much sense, as is.
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is biased but many consider it reliable because it does have some sort of editorial oversight.
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See my comments under NPOV. The reason why the Iranians were in Lebanon needs to be addressed.
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A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
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I have made the change as agreed. I think the sole reply at RSN agrees with my concern about
610:. This wasn't just two innocent diplomats, their driver, and a journalist getting kidnapped.
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that the website is described as "the Arab world’s first Huffington Post–style outlet." --
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has any editorial board or fact-checking. This is independent of the source being BIASED.
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983:"in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications"
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is the list of their columnists). How about keeping those supported by these sources? --
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It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
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looks like some guy's website to post whatever. That other outlets like NYT call it a
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Failing this nomination after the energy and time put on this is not a good choice.
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This is not a point I'm negotiating. I have already explained that I don't believe
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A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
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WaPo establishes the group was there in Lebanon under the aegis of the IRGC
2055:, suggested to use the material based on the narration of the RSs and not
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I'm the reviewer and I say it fails the requirement that citations come
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It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing
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US and Israeli sources explicate that Motevaselian, operating under
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I'm putting this on hold for you to make corrections. Meanwhile,
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reason why is very much part of the story about the kidnapping.
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I'll be looking at the sources to ensure there's no plagiarism.
874:
Thanks for the precise review. I'll handle with your points. --
692:
Editing has not been brisk recently, so there's no issue here.
1729:(which already thanked), we need the points by Ray al-youm. --
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WP:SPS says using the blogs of experts requires their work
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is the source for the claim. She doesn't use the term
1512:: Thanks for the suggestion. However "operating under
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I have since added content to fix this, as discussed.
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I have since added content to fix this, as discussed.
938:
is by shaker kasraee, a journalist who had been with
1448:"Brigadier General Qassem Suleimani: A Biography"
1370:"U.S. a 'stubborn' child, Iranian President says"
1175:It's already mentioned in the background that
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551:without going into unnecessary detail (see
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1953:I'm content waiting on a second opinion.
1284:to fight against the Israeli invasion.
1010:As for the other matter, I posted to RSN
612:JCPA says Motevasselian was the commander
439:This passes the automated COPYVIO check.
18:Talk:1982 kidnapping of Iranian diplomats
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1389:Shapira, Shimon (November 18, 2013).
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1412:School of Advanced Military Studies
1396:Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs
1115:Oh! I should have noted that...! --
716:Is it illustrated, if possible, by
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1368:Boustany, Nora (May 4, 1990).
1300:1979 Kurdish rebellion in Iran
614:of the IRGC force in Lebanon.
322:scientific citation guidelines
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1453:American Enterprise Institute
253:You have already fixed this.
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2088:'s also noteworthy. --
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391:no original research
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1427:Unknown parameter
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81:Instructions
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1857:his article
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1706:Rai al-Youm
729:with their
104:visual edit
1855:has based
1676:my comment
1414:. pp. 1–2.
1348:. p. 586.
1326:References
429:plagiarism
282:verifiable
48:Authorship
34:GA toolbox
1924:Fars News
1781:WP:BIASED
1700:Mhhossein
1629:Mhhossein
1565:Mhhossein
1431:ignored (
1278:Hezbollah
1251:Mhhossein
1201:Mhhossein
1091:Mhhossein
1038:Per this
977:Mhhossein
945:WP:BIASED
936:This blog
810:this book
312:are from
144:Reviewer:
71:Templates
62:Reviewing
27:GA Review
906:Unbloded
773:relevant
682:edit war
169:WP:WIAGA
157:contribs
76:Criteria
2098:hossein
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1984:removed
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794:Overall
591:neutral
308:B. All
213:fiction
127:history
108:history
94:Article
2045:WP:RSN
1980:Here's
1040:source
949:WP:RSN
733:, and
727:tagged
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675:stable
673:Is it
588:Is it
482:Is it
337:WP:SPS
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176:Is it
2084:This
1853:MEMRI
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902:Done
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123:edit
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1865:see
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