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encouragement to editors that there are active discussion and interest on the part of editors to achieve consensus by using the talk page - a common sense invitation to discuss any major content changes to develop consensus. Please see the Talk page archive for all the discussions that have led to the article as it is developing now, many of which I didn't participate actively, but read intently. If anything, I initiated some discussions that have led to major improvements on the page, and also implemented some of the discussed changes myself.
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specific importance in the context? A small example is in "Attribution" para: "Initially, some media reports had attributed these terrorist attacks to
Lashkar-e-Taiba...". This was the immediate media report, which has later been reported by many other government/intelligence/media sources and already included in the article. This sentence is perhaps of no sigficance any more as it is already reported by the Indian gov., US intelligence and in many more references... This could be considered in the next clean-ups...
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1100:. It stopped having a relationship with "casual" somewhere in the middle ages. In wikipedia, we have to be neutral in our presentation. Calling the dead and wounded "victims" breaks neutrality, in so far as there many military and security personnel among the casualties, and calling these people victims is a misuse of the word. Thanks!--
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and the talk page for the references and discussion. One reference says that it was a police mistranslation, the other says that it was police administrative enthusiasm to find a surname where no surname existed, but both agree that Kasav/Kasab/Qasab/Kamaal/etc. is not part of Ajmal Amir's real name.
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Nobody has done any edits to the page for the past 3 hours leading up to just before 00:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC). i'm unlikely to search for whoever put up the notice talking about a reconstruction effort, but it sounds like s/he wants to even reserve the page while s/he is sleeping, having lunch,
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In "Criticism of politicians and resignations" section, facts repeated from the table may be deleted. The news about Kerala CM using derogatoty terms against the martyr's family should NOT be deleted. I don't understand where the humanity has gone now-a-days! (regarding the politician's comment).
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I placed the tag a few days ago... and there seems to be some confusion on your part. The currently placed tag is not one that locks the page in any way: it is meant as a notice for readers that this page is constantly being changed and not yet in a more or less stable form - which it is- and an
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There are some initial information in the article which are later confirmed/corrected by many other sources. Those newer info have been already inserted in many parts of the article. That is making the initial info redundant. Can we think about cleaning up those- unless they seem to be of any
901:, because "guns" is too specific, and while sources quote to guns, the point the people are making is to be allowed to self-defend, guns being one way but not the only one advocated (ie private security forces, detectors, bulletproof vests etc)
570:
Maybe add a brief comment here as is required by the template you put on the page - maybe tell other wikipedians how long you expect to take (a few minutes, a few hours, a few days?), give a brief description of your reconstruction plan, etc.Ā ?
327:"Confessions of a Captured Terrorists" is a very important and integral part of the topic and should NOT be moved away. I am sure a bit more structuring of the texts (which I can see is already underway) will make the article compact and clear.
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Lulls in editing are nothing strange, and in fact it is about time that the article moves from the information collection phase and into the style editing and organization phase, which have different pacing in the way they are edited.
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Bhujangrao Shinde, deputy commissioner of Mumbai police, said that the two suspects were taken by taxi across Mumbai, just as the first attacks were launched on Nov 26. The taxi dropped the men at a bus stop in the north of the city.
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I don't like the current structure and headers. I think it is a bit convoluted (and the article itself is a mess IMHO, but we getting there). I know that there is a proposal already, but this is mine with comments afterward.
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is pretty much already a sub-article for the attack part.) Where would they fit in? I guess as sub-sections under
Attacks? Shouldn't the confessions go under Attribution? (I know, questions, questions, no answers!)
615:- which is rather ridiculous, but i think that's the sort of low reliability we can expect from something like CNN anyway. So i'll help out and recite three rather more serious references closer to the source here:
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but not strongly, and I do see your point... its just that I feel the published confession details more the plan, and sources on the confession are contradictory on attribution. Thanks!--
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sections, they were too narrow - even if they only contain the original text, one can presume that additional sources will be found that fit the categories listed. I also changed the
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That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. However, "casualties" is not a military euphemism, it a word used to neutrally describe a situation were there are dead and wounded:
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section; while civilians are victims, the police and military were doing their jobs and are casualties of war, I think the "Terrorist" section should be split and part merged into
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For the most part. We still need to split the attacks into the different places, and source some things. I created the subpage for the timeline. Also see my new comment. Thanks!--
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Detail about the political fallout in the "Criticism of politicians and resignations" section is already summarized in the table. No need to keep the rest of the text. Comments?
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for an explanation of the header style. In a heading called "Attacks" a sub-heading called "Nariman House" implies the "At the", so it is not necessary. Its all about context.
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I like succinct headers, the shorter the better. I made one exception for a flair of style that drew a smile: Confession of a captured terrorist. But I significantly cut the
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By doing the changes, you are part of the re-structuring, as I said already, the tag is not a call to slow editing, it is a call to comment and talk about your edits. Thanks!
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Two men, who opened fire at the city's main railway station, set off a timer to blow up the taxi which took them there in order to create confusion and cover their tracks.
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Confessions of a
Captured Terrorist clearly belongs in the Azam Amit Kasav article. You can leave a summary of any info u feel is necessary in the main article.
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618:{{cite news | first=Praveen | last=Swami | pages= | language =| title= Terrorist's name lost in transliteration | date=2008-12-06 | publisher=] | url=
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I changed "casualties" to "victims" because there is nothing casual about someone being killed. Please join me in rejecting military euphemisms.
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i think someone reverted back to the incorrect names which include "Kasav/Kasab/etc.". To whoever posted the reconstruction notice, please see
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630:{{cite news | first= | last= | pages= | language =| title=Cops called him 'Kasav' as dad was a butcher | date=2008-12-07 | publisher=] | url=
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Is this article still "being restructured"? It's been marked this way for several days now. Can we get rid of the template that says so?
503:
Where should we put the info about the warnings that the FBI gave to the Taj Hotel
Company about terrorists attacks that did take place?
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I am getting warnings that this page, at 124 KB, is too large. Some of the material seems like too much detail and could be moved out:
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page, rather than here. It is not an integral part of the
November 2008 Mumbai attacks. We need to be objective rather than emotional.
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section should be so prominent, it is more of a reference than an encyclopedic narrative, and as such belongs at the end. I added a
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3628614/Mumbai-attacks-police-admit-there-were-more-than-ten-attackers.html
688:. Experience shows that in high traffic, high interest articles such as these, discussion is the best way to quickly develop a
137:
Why are there no
British deaths in the fatalities table? I would add it myself but I get the feeling it is so for a reason.--
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Well, you'll need to have sections for the three main sites (Taj, Oberoi, and
Nariman House) with sub-articles for each. (
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That said, nothing keeps you from changing anything in the article, and in fact dozens of editors change it all the time.
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2) While I agree to describe the attackers as terrorists, because their actions were terrorism, in general I defend
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4) As explained, if a heading is empty, we should expand with narrative and link to a subpage or related article.
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Can someone update same in the article.., that some elements in
Pakistan soil is responsible for these attacks.
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Vile Parle is a long way north from VT south bombay, but what about this one, which talks of 2 more attackers:
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is this the unexplained taxi blast at Vile Parle? The ref for the blast being unexplained is way old (Nov 26).
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when speaking about groups. However, I do not object noting that States consider them terrorists, if sourced.
135:, a British yachting tycoon (of dual Greek Cypriot and British citizenship), was among those confirmed killed."
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There's a whole page for
Attribution of the 2008 Mumbai attacks. bostonbrahmin 16:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Cops_called_him_Kasav_as_dad_was_a_butcher/articleshow/3803542.cms
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Srimanta, I can understand your sentiments about the Kerala CM info, but frankly it should be on the
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I tried to move material into the Azam Amit Kasav article, but somebody reverted my changes.
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taking the dog for a walk, watching a movie, or whatever! Sounds a bit exaggerated to me.
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Revert the change back then... I will do so shortly if it still hasn't been restored.
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a new section i'd say. there's quite a bit to be written about all the warnings. --
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and expand the articles on the other sites.) I think confession belongs better in
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5) I agree with removing the subheadings in "Casualties", they proved redundant.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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This benefit concert was held to raise money for the victims of the attack:
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http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/394689/1/.html
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Still got a long way to go, but I think we are moving forward! Thanks!--
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i just saw that a CNN reference is presently used whose title starts
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http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticleID=1961
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An archive bot archived the discussion before I could post so:
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http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/08/stories/2008120850210100.htm
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On sites (I think we should follow the excellent example of
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http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/06/stories/2008120661211200.htm
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Great work guys! the article has really been cleaned up!
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TODO list for the person/people doing the reconstruction
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1) Please do not restore in this article the tables at
194:. They where moved because the article is too big.
916:issues. I also changed the Victims section to a
696:which is the goal all editors should strive for.
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300:--bostonbrahmin 17:25, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
8:
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402:bostonbrahmin 21:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
192:Timeline of the November 2008 Mumbai attacks
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613:Kasab is the son of Mohammed Amir Kasab...
156:though had dual citizenship, was British.
823:Criticism of the anti-terrorist operation
820:Criticism of politicians and resignations
682:, and in fact editors are required to be
931:I guess this is it. Discuss! Thanks!--
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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904:That said, I don't think the
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1041:unsigned
1019:Cerejota
987:Cerejota
933:Cerejota
906:Location
891:Reaction
872:See also
851:Recovery
804:Civilian
791:Timeline
704:Cerejota
653:WARNING:
547:unsigned
534:reaction
475:it says
419:contribs
407:unsigned
317:contribs
305:unsigned
245:Cerejota
219:Cerejota
1045:Vvarkey
983:Attacks
922:Attacks
760:Attacks
520:vvarkey
486:vvarkey
370:vvarkey
206:WP:HEAD
186:Changes
39:archive
16:<
1154:talk
1132:talk
1106:talk
1085:talk
1070:talk
1049:talk
1023:talk
1014:Done
991:talk
974:Done
937:talk
886:---
743:for
738:main
708:talk
662:talk
658:Boud
642:talk
638:Boud
603:talk
599:Boud
577:talk
573:Boud
555:talk
524:talk
509:talk
490:talk
415:talk
374:talk
337:talk
313:talk
272:talk
249:talk
223:talk
143:talk
117:talk
897:to
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