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subsequent
Constructors table and Driver and Constructor statistics tables also duplicate the same information. Should these also be removed, based on Falcadore's argument, because anyone looking at the drivers table alone, should also be able to work out, in their head, the constructors table and the statistics tables. I fully agree with F1Graphs that such a graph allows people to see at a glance when drivers have peaks and troughs in form, which in graphical form is much easier for the human brain to process than a table of numbers.
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something admittedly I didn't consider but as said before it would be trivial to regenerate. But I still maintain that they provide some useful compliment to the tables in the article (the little mistake above proves that the tables are not really adequate). Also its not entirely a duplication as the graphs shows the cumulative sum of the points something which is pretty much impossible to do in your head after say 4-5 races. Finally just to be clear on terminology currently there isn't a single
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enough for any and all readers, and any extra tables or charts are clutter. Like you, I question the presence of the extra grey tables in the "Statistics" section, since they are nothing but a repeat of information already given. Let's not have two repeats. The graphs cannot replace the tables, and they only add minimal extra information, or none at all.
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charts should not replace the tables, becuase as you say they do not present any extra hard information (in fact from a pure data perspective they if anything present less data). However this isn't really what the argument is about. It's about presenting existing information in a more user-friendly manner. But thank-you again for your help.
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Knows very little about F1 because I made a mistake regarding the rare occurance of half points...? I dont see any arguement here that changes my opinion against the matter, nor do I think the statistics section is completely necessary, but I do see the benefits of it. The graphs offer no benefits
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Having just entered (and had deleted) a similar chart to that posted by F1Graphs, before reading these posts, I have to say that I agree with all of the comments made above by F1Graphs. I fully accept the argument that it is repetition of data, however taking this argument to the extreme surely the
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nationality of these drivers (Jim Clark included)? To find out, look at their racing licenses, or the little flag on the waistband of the overalls (if you don't have these, see the drivers' articles, in the infobox beneath the photo and above the "Formula One World
Championship career" bar); I think
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The FIA would have to change the rules to let him race. They specifically state that any driver who does not take part on
Saturday is not eligible to race on Sunday. Not only that, Kobayashi has had zero dry running, and given the difficulty several of the other drivers had in adapting to running in
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Thank-you
Bretonbanquet. For the record, I do not question the inclusion of the statistics tables. Like a chart I consider these to present useful information in a user-friendly format, without the need for people to take the available data and siginifcantly manipulate it. I fully agree that the
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The colour coding allows at a glance for people to see how drivers have done in a particular race or two. It doesn't allow people to see, easily, how the strength of their position in the championship is increasing or diminishing in relation to that of their competitors. This is what the chart is
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My reservations about stats overload on this article page still stands. Widespread across motorsport season articles is that they are incredibly statistics heavy and short on actual text. Even then some text is presented in bullet point style, it's a major weakness, and these charts make that trend
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While technically they are redundant, I believe that the graphs present the existing information in the tables in a much better format for human viewing. They show a good summary of the seasons progression in terms of points, the relationship between different drivers/teams and how they change over
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This article is obviously the collective work of many many people, and the problem is that it shows. The structure is really poor - why is there a huge block of text about pre-season testing right at the beginning, yet the report about the actual season is not only smaller but hidden much further
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He can be shown in the drivers table once he's taken part in a race. Until then, he isn't eligible to be in that table, just like any other driver who hasn't raced. He has been edited into the table, but he's hidden for now, and will be 'unhidden' once his result in Brazil is known. Then he'll be
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Your lack of contribution here does not discount your knowledge of the subject, or your future contribution, but it does more or less discount your opinion of anyone else's knowledge. Thanks for striking that comment. To the subject at hand, I believe that the colour-coded tables are informative
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My opinion hasn't changed, this is an article already over-bloated with statistics. It is still a duplication of material already contained within the article. What the graph does show slightly differently who is in front of which driver in the points race during the season, but in keeping with
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I retract, and apologise for, my comments regarding F1 knowledge. I would note however that simply because I have not contributed here before does not discount my own knowledge of the subject. I disagree with your comment on the casual user, becuase once again a visual chart is much easier to
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Ok obviously people are getting hung up about the fact that they were generated in excel, while I personally don't think they look too bad they can easily be regenerated in MATLAB or any other graphing program on the face of the planet, the style is not that important. The licensing issue is
1241:. I would further note that Falcadore's opening comment is a matter of personal preference and should not be used in deciding whether to remove other people's posts. Is there some way of obtaining further consideration of this issue, given that it seems neither side is going to back down?
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Secondly, there are far too many tables already in the season articles. These graphs, in my opinion, add little to the casual reader's understanding of the season, and add much to the general clutter. I appreciate that people have put considerable effort into them, but this should not be a
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The FIA has also allowed teams to let their third driver take a primary driver's place in Friday practice. It happened a few times in recent years, but this is the first time it's happened this season. It needs no mention here in the season article, it's easily covered at
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After a bit of reverting today, a reminder that Liuzzi is not yet classified in the WDC, as he hasn't been classified in a race yet. Yes, good old F1.com lists him as 24th as do the BBC, who copy F1.com, but none of the other usual sources do, e.g. Autosport
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The mistake carries no weight. I was simply going on memory, not based on the results table. The graphs are wholly redundant. If people want standings at certain points in the season, we have "Standings as of..." in each individual race article.
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Should the replacement of
Kobayashi for Glock in Practice 1 & 2 of the Japanese Grand Prix be classified under Mid-Season changes? I know that it was only temporary due to his fever, but it was a driver change, so shouldn't it be classified?
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Button becomes the 10th Briton to claim the honour, taking over from compatriot Lewis
Hamilton, who finished the race third. It is the first time in 40 years Britain has had back-to-back world champions since Graham Hill and Sir Jackie
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intended to do and I reiterate that this is a more user friendly presentation than a table of numbers. Again, is there a way of obtaining further opinion on this subject, given that neither groups seem willing to back down. Thanks.
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worse. The biggest problem though is it does not display any new data at all, it is just a re-interpretation of existing data already presented in the season results matrix, and even though only showing the top four.
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If people want to see when teams and drivers had bad runs, they can look at the results table. It should be pretty evident when teams and drivers have won races, and when they have failed to score points.
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interpret than a table of numbers. The effort put into the production of the chart is not the issue here. It's an issue of providing something in a format which is easy to interpret for the causal user.
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about
Formula One, and made a simple mistake. Curtholr, on the other hand, appears to have made no contribution whatsoever to any F1 article, hardly qualifying him/her to judge anyone else's knowledge.
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If the article text be amended to
English (for Hill) and Scottish (Stewart), the paragraph not only loses its significance but becomes incorrectly referenced and should therefore be struck out as
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looks pretty silly to be honest. I'm happy just to do away with the ING but I know that will cause issues seeing as they were 'ING Renault' for more than the first half of the year. -
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is most disingenuous, and I strongly suggest that an apology is in order. A cursory glance at his contributions to this wikiproject would have shown that the editor in question knows
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I agree, there is no table for season results, you cannot see standings, a very poor structure. It is very hard to read who is first or second in drivers or teams championships.
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given a position in the table accordingly. At the moment, he is not 25th, as some editors keep insisting. He has to be classified in a race before he's classified in the WDC.
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Knowledge (XXG)'s principles that can be far better represented in the text report on the season. Clear and well-written prose trumps tables and charts almost everytime. --
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Not only that, but the graphs simply seem to have been chewed out by
Microsoft Excel, which I don't think quite makes their licensing what you think it is.
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The table needs a tweak. Currently it is showing
Alguersuari, Coulthard and Hartley as test drivers for Red Bull and Toro Rosso! Or is this correct?
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I attempted to add them to the article but my contribution was undone pretty quickly so I thought I'd bring it up here to see what others think.
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Also, the data on them appears to be quite wrong. For instance, Button should have 20 points by Round 2, when your chart seems to show 15-ish.
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I know that this would really bother my Dad! Jim Clarke - clearly English. Jackie Stewart - clearly Scottish (Please also see helmet design)
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Except the article that the section was "spun off from" is now at AFD, so it may be an inevitability that it will get removed soon.
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the season and the graphs also reveal the 'bursts' and 'slow' patches experienced by drivers/teams which I think is interesting. --
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It would be helpful to know other people's views on this, if there is a way of doing so on Knowledge (XXG). Thanks again.
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It's incomplete and its duplication. From me, no in any form. I'm sorry, but it's not a worthwhile addition in my opinion. --
951:... it's 40 years since there's been a British champion back-to-back. I was that person, I took it over from Graham Hill ...
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992:"BOB was suspended from FOTA on the 27th May 2009" Sorry, I haven't a clue how to use wikipedia - but is this vandalism?
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clearly English?! Were you thinking of Damon Hill? Falcadore is correct, although if we're referring to these guys
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Neither raced in 2009, but all English, Scottish, Welsh, Guernsey Islanders like Andy Priaulx, are all British. --
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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This is because the previous article it was included in was deleted because it was not a stand-alone article.
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one of which clearly knows very little about Formula 1, given their mix up about the Malaysian grand prix
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their competitive career, then I would think calling them English or Scottish as appropriate would work.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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The Drivers' and Constructors' Championship tables are included in the "Results and standings" section.
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over either chart. Simple color coding on the chart easily identified highs and lows over the season.
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https://web.archive.org/20081207073914/http://www.iht.com:80/articles/2008/10/16/sports/motmagny16.php
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Is there really any point in having a tyre column for years in which there is only one tyre provider?
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This is clearly a contentious matter and seems to be an argument between three (now four) individuals
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Scratch the error part, I forgot about the Malaysian half points. The other problems stand however.
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Should Kobayashi be included in the Drivers table and given a 'PO' under the Japanese Grand Prix?
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Is there a better solution for the name of the Renault team in the teams and drivers table? Having
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https://web.archive.org/20090621045826/http://www.formula1.com:80/news/headlines/2008/12/8773.html
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https://web.archive.org/20090621045826/http://www.formula1.com:80/news/headlines/2008/12/8773.html
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https://web.archive.org/20090212073608/http://planet-f1.com:80/story/0,18954,3213_4907252,00.html
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https://web.archive.org/20091228021606/http://www.formula1.com:80/news/headlines/2009/4/9266.html
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https://web.archive.org/20090428112524/http://www.formula1.com:80/news/headlines/2009/3/9009.html
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https://web.archive.org/20071015040241/http://www.formula1.com:80/news/headlines/2007/2/5604.html
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https://web.archive.org/20090903204734/http://www.formula1.com:80/news/headlines/2008/7/8098.html
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https://web.archive.org/20090616034421/http://www.formula1.com:80/news/features/2008/11/8741.html
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https://web.archive.org/20100108081439/http://www.formula1.com:80/news/features/2008/10/8472.html
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https://web.archive.org/20090212073608/http://planet-f1.com:80/story/0,18954,3213_4907252,00.html
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Fair enough. I've added a †note to explain it as it will confuse those unaware of the change. -
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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in this article only tables of data (some people seem to be confused as to the difference) --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090322113601/http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=45299
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Obviously if he races tomorrow then yes it should be mentioned. If he doesn't then no. -
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http://www.fia.com/EN-GB/SPORT/CHAMPIONSHIPS/F1/Pages/ChampionshipClassification.aspx
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I have created two graphs which I believe could be useful to include in this article
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https://web.archive.org/20100804193201/http://www.formula1.com:80/results/team/2009/
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I was simply saying in the small possibility that he might race having read
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For possible further comment, it might be worth taking the discussion to
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
948:(ii) In the same article Jackie Stewart himself is quoted as saying:
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Can we say that Jackie Stewart is Scottish rather than English?
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Yes it was. I have reverted it. Thanks for flagging it up. -
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/16/sports/motmagny16.php
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http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4907252,00.html
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http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4907252,00.html
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/10/10106.html
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/12/8773.html
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I have just added archive links to 15 external links on
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that you'll find they were all registered as British.
2099:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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1507:below? Can someone do something about this? --
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775:Toyota have withdrawn the car. Dead issue. --
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1401:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Formula One
882:Could we say that they were both British?
676:No. Practice doesn't count for anything. --
450:, motorsport.co.uk, gp.com, even Manipe F1
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2023:. Please take a moment to review
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1283:(e/c)Firstly, saying things like
493:That pretty much trumps the lot.
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18:Talk:2009 Formula One season
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2016:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
2007:11:39, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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91:Be welcoming to newcomers
1586:Official Race Edit Songs
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621:Teams and Drivers table
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116:No original research
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1945:parameter below to
1840:parameter below to
640:Yes it is correct.
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994:—Preceding
884:—Preceding
805:—Preceding
389:Formula One
377:the project
350:Formula One
304:Formula One
159:free images
42:not a forum
2161:Categories
2148:Report bug
1566:DH85868993
1071:They look
923:outside of
535:DH85868993
2131:this tool
2124:this tool
1987:this tool
1980:this tool
1870:this tool
1863:this tool
1528:QueenCake
1469:Falcadore
1244:Thanks.
1218:Falcadore
1077:Falcadore
970:Redrose64
919:Jim Clark
906:Falcadore
777:Falcadore
705:Falcadore
678:Falcadore
368:task list
366:View the
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
2137:Cheers.—
1993:Cheers.—
1914:cbignore
1876:Cheers.—
1669:cbignore
1612:contribs
1600:unsigned
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517:Plugwash
245:deletion
197:Archives
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
2025:my edit
2003::Online
1943:checked
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1886::Online
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1663:my edit
1509:Noikeee
642:272812A
627:Mjroots
420:on the
375:Discuss
275:B-class
165:WPÂ refs
153:scholar
1951:failed
1922:nobots
1677:nobots
1524:Gilsta
1289:plenty
958:racing
442:Liuzzi
281:scale.
137:Google
1628:Zappa
1522:Well
1152:chart
966:WP:OR
511:Tyres
202:Index
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
1947:true
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1638:Mati
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253:keep
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173:FENS
147:news
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