1200:@Walter: For the fourth time: It is obvious that you can figure out the scenarios on the basis of the group tables. Why you keep repeating this point is puzzling, to say the least. Again, if the article consisted of not much more than detailed match reports, you could discern just about every facet of the tournament. So suppose someone argued that there should be nothing but a schedule of matches and match reports in the article. Then she would say pretty much exactly what you're saying. She would say of the group tables, "They say nothing that can't be deduced from the match reports". The right response to this ridiculous suggestion that the match tables be eliminated is that IT DOESN'T MATTER that it is possible to deduce what you want to know from the information provided. It would be possible to deduce what you want to know if the article were written in binary. So what? Note that it actually takes a bit MORE work to figure out the scenarios on the basis of the tables than it does to figure out the tables on the basis of the match reports. So, I'll say it yet again: By your rationale, there shouldn't be any group tables in the article.--
1075:@Walter: My little equation was just meant to indicate what I meant when I said "The scenarios make sense". I am quite aware that "makes sense" does not literally mean the same thing as "appropriate to include". But it is only if you want to be incredibly uncharitable and painfully pedantic that this point matters. The real point is that you have now made three complaints about including the scenarios. Again, the first two are based on claims that are demonstrably false. You have said nothing to indicate why you think otherwise. As has already been pointed out to you, the draw possibilities you mention have no bearing on qualification or elimination in the next round of play. Your third point is one that strongly suggests the tables themselves should not be included. If elimination of the tables is not a good idea, then doing away with the scenarios is not a good idea either. Ergo, the scenarios shouldn't be deleted. And when someone has suggested that something ridiculous follows from what you've said, just saying it again doesn't do much to make your case.--
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advance if they defeat Team B and Team C do not defeat Team D - "do not defeat" specifically includes the possibility of a draw. When a draw is not mentioned, it's because a draw would not lead to the noted team clinching or being eliminated. As far as the scenarios being trivial, that is your opinion and I doubt anything I say will change it. All I can address is the factual part of your objections, which hopefully I've done. By all means, if you notice a scenario in the article that is factually inaccurate or incomplete (within the scope of the next match day), please correct it.
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start - and it generally does). Within that context all eliminations and advancements are discussed - with no preference given (I'm not really sure what that is meant to mean - are you complaining we don't say how Canada might advance just because they can't, or that it is unfair to give preference to the teams that might advance by noting that?). These things have been worked out over a long perid of time. I think the problem here is you just don't get it.
1218:(this is obviously on the last match day rather than this early on). Sometimes the alternatives aren't obvious. This is even more true given that there are two (or even more by some ways of counting) different ways to determine who advances when teams are tied on points - something that isn't obvious "just from the tables". The scenarios help people to know what a given team needs to do to advance in a simple (and consistent) manner.
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participating, the stadium where each game is played, the leading goal scorers, the structure of the knockout bracket, and pretty much everything else about the tournament if the article consisted of nothing but semi-detailed match reports. But that would be a really crappy encyclopedia entry. Is that what you want the article to look like? --
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and preferential scenarios are just a waste of space. They should be eliminated until there's something important to write about. And not all of the scenarios as you mentioned are listed. There were usually only two per group. Not all eliminations. Not all possible advancements. Certainly no draw scenarios discussed. --
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Actually it's not. There are many that take longer to update. In fact, I would argue that it should not be updated during game play and only after full-time. As for other events, what's to update? Perhaps in
Virginia everything happens and then is instantaneously updated on Knowledge, but in the rest
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Actually, it's not like talking to wall. I'm listening, but you're not saying anything worth hearing. No the tables aren't trivial as they reflect the outcome of past matches. Anyone who knows how to read them can understand how the potential results of future matches will affect the teams. Sorry you
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In Group A Canada can NOT win the group with the next match so there is no mention about that, why should it as it covers only the next matchday, that´s described ahead of ALL scenarios, so please... It gives an overview of what can happen on this particular matchday. So i think we should put it back
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playing that can qualify/be eliminated will be listed. They are very standard features of all tournaments. They are also done this way (that is, show how each team can advance/be eliminated rather than list what each cominbation of results will imply) because it is a far more flexible way of doing
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What this all comes down to is should the scenarios stay or go. This encyclopedia is a collaborative effort and things are decided by consensus. Both sides have made the same argument numerous times and no one has changed there mind. All but one individual sees merit in the scenarios (and even that
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It's like talking to a wall, but I will try one more time: Do you think that the group tables are examples of trivia? If not, then I fail to see why you think the scenarios are trivia. You could figure out all of the qualification/elimination scenarios, the group standings, the list of countries
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Good grief. "The scenarios make sense" = "It is appropriate to include them". Your first two complaints were that the scenarios were incomplete and that they didn't take into account all the countries playing. But both of those claims are just false. Now your complaint seems to be that a reader
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Did I say they didn't make sense? No. It makes sense. I said they're incomplete, as waste of space, and "verbal diarrhea". Useless information. Better just to leave the matches to be played rather than suppose what is required to qualify or be eliminated, which is obvious to anyone who can read the
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The scenarios make sense, as anyone who has ever followed a tournament of this sort well understands. They are not "verbal diarrhea". They constitute useful and relevant information. The complaints above verge on the nonsensical, for reasons that Jlsa has explained. It's true that past matchups
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They're not false. All nations in a group, or are we simply concerned with the two with the highest point totals. For instance, in group A, it mentions Canada can be eliminated... as the only Canada-related scenario. Canada can also win the group if... was not at all discussed. Incomplete, partial,
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It seems to me your opposition to including the scenarios in the article has 2 basic parts: (1) they are incomplete (i.e., don't include all the teams and don't mention draw possibilities) and (2) they are trivial. As to whether they are incomplete, you are mistaken. They don't list every team
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No draw scenarios are discussed because no team can be eliminated/qualified with a draw. If you bothered to actually read the section properly (and not just jump in) you would note that there is a context to the scenarios - what can happen on the next matchday (it should say that in words at the
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which is all the scenarios focus on. It's not an exhaustive list of all the possible scenarios in all future matches. As far as the possibility of draws, they are certainly included where they would lead to a team either clinching or being eliminated on the next match day; such as "Team A will
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Are they needed? First, they're incomplete. They mention wins, but draws are a possibility. Second, they don't focus on all of the nations playing. We should simply not discuss scenarios until there's something concrete to discuss and should definitely mention all of the possible match outcomes.
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the teams that may qualify or be eliminated in the next match. So they DO cover all the concrete possibilities. If a match cannot see a team be eliminated or qualify then there is no scenario to mention, and if a team cannot advance or be eliminated then there is also no scenario - but
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So everyone can understand it? How do you know that? You have to make it easy for everyone so when someone looks this article up with not much knowledge of it, the scenarios surely help. Also if a Team only advance if a), b) and c) happen, it is better to know that.
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I did read it properly and it's not just about Canada. I honestly do get it: it's verbal diarrhea designed to use time and space by those with sporting interests. While it's frequently done and has no purpose in an encyclopedia (any more than a scoreboard does).
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could determine the qualification and elimination scenarios by reading the table. Sure, she could, but by that rationale, why even include the tables? After all, a reader could reconstruct the tables from nothing more than a list of the scores.--
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individual says that they are useful, just only when they think they are useful). That means the scenarios stay, unless someone can come up with a new reason, not already listed that gives validation to removing them and changes peoples minds.
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In the article, it states that " Several of the stadiums are officially referred to simply as "FIFA World Cup
Stadium", because FIFA prohibits sponsorship of stadiums unless the stadium sponsors are also official tournament sponsors. "
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It doesn't give an overview of what can happen on a particular match day. It doesn't describe the draw scenarios. I think you will put it back just like the rest of the nonsensical trivia that gets put back into most sports articles.
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between two teams don't have a lot to do with the next round of matches in the tournament, but how anyone could compare that to scenarios for qualification and elimination (limited to the next round of play) is beyond me. --
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Just keep saying that. Maybe if you repeat yourself enough times, you will suddenly and magically be right. Until then, could someone who knows how to reintroduce the qualification and elimination scenarios please do so?
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Unofficial sources cite at least 7 bidding nations, but I can only find specific mention of three: Australia, Canada, and France. Info on other candidates, especially links to their bid websites, would be most helpful.
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Does someone know if this game has subsequently been amended to a win for
Columbia, due to North Korea having played with several doped players? Any results gained by doping are normally annulled, after all...
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Noone (DFB, Bundesliga, German
Newssites, ...) used Anonman before this Cup, so one can't say she is known by that. I think we should change it to Anonma, her correct name. Let's get some more opinions.
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It's like describing how many times two countries have played in past tournaments as if it has anything to do with the match about to be played. We'd all just be better off without the prose. --
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The men's WC page has a section for player of the match of each match - should we add it here? The information is in FIFA's website, would give a little more "oomph" to the page. Thoughts?
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don't understand why the scenarios are trivial: since they say nothing that can't be deduced from the results tables and coming matches, and without leaving any gaps in the statements. --
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Italy has not yet qualified for the World Cup. The azzurre have won their qualifying group and have advanced to the second round of UEFA qualifications, but have yet to qualify.
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I will change the map once the actual venues have been announced in
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Why didn't FIFA stick with the actual name of the stadium, "Commerzbank-Arena", instead of going ahead and calling it the "FIFA Women's World Cup
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Commerzbank is an official tournament sponsor, but on FIFA.com, the stadium is just referred to as "FIFA Women's World Cup
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Every source so far, club website, the dfb site, and every news site at least in germany called her Anonma. Anonman started just now. So, who know's. -
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Section 2 (Venues) needs some picturees (Wolfsburg). I am trying to get WikiCommons to approve some photos it the following days. Please help, thanks.
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She herself declared her name is Anonma, a buereu in her country mispelled a new passport, which is the source for the fifa website and the jersey. -
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I would even disagree with the "you can work it out from the table" point. In the last WC finals, people tried putting the scenarios together and
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A german newspaper pointed that out and said that the FIFA made a misstake and that she is called Anonma. The article was from a few days ago.
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1028:"It is appropriate to include them". Just because I understand them (hence they make sense) doesn't mean that it's appropriate to be included.
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So what do we do? I personally think it should be what she's known by, which is what's on her jersey, but I'm not getting into it anymore...
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This says by
Germany's bid that they're the only nation who competed in all editions and won. When exactly did the US team not play?
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to fulfill those conditions, the US isn't bidding to host this edition. Feel free to change the wording if necessary. Thanks, --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110712204353/http://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/destination/stadiums/stadium%3D5001653/index.html
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No repetition needed
Toronto, unless you want to convince yourself that this trivia is actually saying something important. --
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Say, I just changed it before seeing this. I noted it ends in 'n' on her jersey; it's also spelled that way on her FIFA page
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or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the
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because not every team has a possiblity of either clinching a spot in the next round or of being eliminated from contention
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Can someone edit it because it is linking to the men's team, not the women's team. I would but I am terrible at editing.--
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The "scenarios" say nothing that someone who can read the tables can't understand and as such are a waste of space. --
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110512032815/http://www.dfb.de/fileadmin/user_upload/2011/04/20110414172633301.pdf
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99:, a WikiProject which aims to improve coverage of women in sports on Knowledge. For more information, visit the
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http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500014&no_cache=1&tx_dfbnews_pi1%5BshowUid%5D=14063&cHash=c04eee2ef1
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https://web.archive.org/web/20110712191704/http://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/statistics/players/topgoals.html
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Notable for its bizarre novelty and uniqueness. But I doubt anyone would ever want it in this article. Shame.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100308070023/http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federation/news/newsid%3D625447.html
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Please give a reason why they don´t make sense instead of just saying that. Nothing else expected though...
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https://web.archive.org/20110722140456/http://www.fifa.com:80/womensworldcup/news/newsid=1476704/index.html
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There never were those, and not even the men have those. THey are uninteressing for spectators and teams. -
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Firstly, all the comments aobve are just false. The scenarios (when done properly as they are here) cover
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I don't think a list of all players receiving a card is needed here. One could of couse refer to it (
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Why the difference? Is being eliminated on the second day somehow less relevant than on the third?
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on
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http://www.espnmediazone3.com/us/2011/03/23/2011-fifa-women%E2%80%99s-world-cup-schedule-on-espn/
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This is the slowest-updated page I've ever encountered for a major sporting event on Knowledge.
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After the second match day, the scenarios may make sense. After match day one, absolutely not. --
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Why aren't there any fifth- or seventh-place playoffs in the 2011 FIFA Women's World Cup? --
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The only thing that is demonstrably false is the idea that these are needed at all. --
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http://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/destination/stadiums/stadium%3D5001653/index.html
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shouldn't the article mention what countries/channels the games will be shown on?--
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http://www.gmx.net/themen/sport/frauenwm/aktuelles/107tdem-ich-heisse-anonma
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A comment by a person who has been editing Knowledge since October 28, 2010.
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should be moved as well. Please check and correct the locations! Thanks. --
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it - they can cover groups of any size, different match dates and so on.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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her name is Anonman, but your article says Anonma. Which is correct? --
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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http://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/statistics/players/topgoals.html
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http://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/news/newsid%3D1476704/index.html
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http://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/statistics/players/topcards.html
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What time zone are the soccer matches listed in? UTC, EST? Thanks,
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http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federation/news/newsid%3D625447.html
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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of the world, we wait for facts and references before updating. --
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On a humorous note, look at these monster tie breakers at the
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Germany was chosen as host on 30 October 2007 by the FIFA. --
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
1997:
for additional information. I made the following changes:
1707:
If they were, Germany would have participated in these. --
103:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
759:
has been established for this tournament and is reported
1578:
Nope. A reason is maybe that not a whole lot are given.
1990:
1875:
1870:
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
1233:
602:
The location map of the 2011 venues is not very good.
1236:
that arise if some best third placed teams advance. -
2125:
http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=504446&no_cache=1
445:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
276:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
2257:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
2147:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
1027:Good grief. "The scenarios make sense" <: -->
778:Exactly what does that have to do with the Cup?
2243:This message was posted before February 2018.
2133:This message was posted before February 2018.
2345:Automatically assessed Women's sport articles
1356:All times are in the CEST time zone (UTC+2),
8:
2370:High-importance football in Germany articles
1550:Is there a table of yellow and red cards?
2213:I have just modified one external link on
1985:I have just modified 16 external links on
391:
212:
47:
2380:High-importance Women's football articles
174:the Women's football / soccer task force
2375:Football in Germany task force articles
1012:in as you are the only one against it.
393:
214:
49:
19:
2330:High-importance Women's sport articles
200:
1655:Maybew empty your cache and history?
7:
2365:B-Class football in Germany articles
2340:Women's football task force articles
439:This article is within the scope of
270:This article is within the scope of
92:This article is within the scope of
606:, for example is much to far east,
367:Women's association football portal
166:Women's association football portal
113:Knowledge:WikiProject Women's sport
38:It is of interest to the following
116:Template:WikiProject Women's sport
14:
2360:High-importance football articles
2335:B-Class Women's football articles
2217:. Please take a moment to review
1989:. Please take a moment to review
1874:. Please take a moment to review
1381:, German Summer Time, Local Time
814:An not a notable. Keep it out. --
551:When will the host be chosen? --
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2103:Corrected formatting/usage for
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2059:Corrected formatting/usage for
2053:Corrected formatting/usage for
2037:Corrected formatting/usage for
2031:Corrected formatting/usage for
479:This article has been rated as
375:the women's football task force
310:This article has been rated as
133:This article has been rated as
2325:B-Class Women's sport articles
335:the German football task force
290:Knowledge:WikiProject Football
1:
2385:WikiProject Football articles
1856:21:55, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
459:Knowledge:WikiProject Germany
453:and see a list of open tasks.
372:This article is supported by
332:This article is supported by
293:Template:WikiProject Football
284:and see a list of open tasks.
171:This article is supported by
2400:WikiProject Germany articles
1973:08:32, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
462:Template:WikiProject Germany
2311:08:51, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
2215:2011 FIFA Women's World Cup
1987:2011 FIFA Women's World Cup
1872:2011 FIFA Women's World Cup
1826:18:29, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
265:Association football portal
2416:
2350:WikiProject Women articles
2274:(last update: 5 June 2024)
2210:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
2164:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1982:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1892:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
1867:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1722:Not a good troll attempt.
692:06:02, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
518:03:22, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
485:project's importance scale
316:project's importance scale
139:project's importance scale
2355:B-Class football articles
2201:07:18, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
1805:21:35, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
1780:21:33, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
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773:18:01, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
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716:Sure, start the section.-
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639:17:57, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
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1811:North Korea vs. Columbia
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541:22:53, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
527:22:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
2206:External links modified
1978:External links modified
1863:External links modified
1397:GERMANCEST+02:00UTC/GMT
561:(signature added later)
1181:on the next match day,
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97:(and women in sports)
2255:regular verification
2145:regular verification
1927:to let others know.
1878:. If necessary, add
1831:Player of the Match?
1673:Fifth-place playoffs
515:Supersexyspacemonkey
278:Association football
273:WikiProject Football
2245:After February 2018
2135:After February 2018
1923:parameter below to
1307:Well said, Chris.
798:2010 FIFA World Cup
796:had to do with the
442:WikiProject Germany
193:automatically rated
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1869:
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1838:— Preceding
1834:
1814:
1791:
1769:
1753:68.55.212.71
1751:
1748:
1744:
1741:
1706:
1676:
1620:— Preceding
1617:
1553:— Preceding
1549:
1420:
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1340:
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1180:
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1010:
876:
871:
853:
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735:
703:24.218.11.38
700:
674:
671:referee list
657:66.81.159.47
648:
616:89.61.112.91
601:
568:89.61.112.91
550:
533:
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101:project page
93:
40:WikiProjects
1358:Listed here
1202:70.26.89.45
1135:70.26.89.45
1106:70.26.89.45
1077:70.26.89.45
986:70.26.89.45
956:70.26.89.45
877:all nations
757:fruit flies
751:Fruit flies
651:—Preceding
590:present map
2319:Categories
2306:Report bug
2196:Report bug
1844:Tychomarxm
1546:Discipline
697:broadcasts
203:parameter.
105:discussion
2289:this tool
2282:this tool
2179:this tool
2172:this tool
1953:this tool
1946:this tool
1493:Smarkflea
1460:Smarkflea
1379:UTC+02:00
1337:time zone
1309:LarryJeff
1295:Chris1834
1187:LarryJeff
969:table. --
850:Scenarios
534:candidate
2295:Cheers.—
2185:Cheers.—
1959:Cheers.—
1882:cbignore
1852:contribs
1840:unsigned
1622:unsigned
1567:contribs
1555:unsigned
1423:fifa.com
653:unsigned
510:Thanks.
287:Football
224:Football
2219:my edit
1991:my edit
1969::Online
1921:checked
1876:my edit
1772:Ddog892
1694:Koppapa
1614:Updates
1598:Koppapa
1508:Koppapa
1479:Koppapa
1442:Koppapa
1238:Koppapa
718:Koppapa
684:Feroang
675:sourse
604:Dresden
483:on the
456:Germany
447:Germany
403:Germany
314:on the
229:Germany
137:on the
30:B-class
1890:nobots
1797:Kante4
1724:Kante4
1657:Kante4
1580:Kante4
1559:Bob305
1522:Kante4
1427:Fredde
1362:Kante4
1280:Kante4
1063:Kante4
1014:Kante4
612:Bochum
582:Venues
538:Gabbec
201:|auto=
36:scale.
608:Essen
195:by a
1925:true
1848:talk
1822:talk
1801:talk
1792:Done
1776:talk
1757:talk
1728:talk
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1483:talk
1470:...
1464:talk
1456:here
1446:talk
1431:talk
1405:talk
1395:Oh,
1387:talk
1383:Jlsa
1375:CEST
1366:talk
1347:talk
1313:talk
1299:talk
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1270:talk
1266:Jlsa
1256:talk
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990:talk
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916:talk
912:Jlsa
901:talk
886:talk
882:Jlsa
861:talk
834:talk
820:talk
806:talk
784:talk
769:talk
742:talk
732:Pics
722:talk
707:talk
688:talk
661:talk
635:talk
620:talk
610:and
572:talk
557:talk
547:Host
306:High
129:High
64:WOSO
2263:RfC
2233:to
2153:RfC
2123:to
2113:to
2091:to
2081:to
2047:to
2025:to
2015:to
2005:to
1912:to
1902:to
872:all
475:Mid
197:bot
2321::
2276:.
2271:}}
2267:{{
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