Talk:2017 Barcelona attacks/Archive 1

3966:

attacks, Mossos being warned about imam prior to attacks, refusal by mayor of Barcelona to set up protective "bolardos", CIA warning Mossos of high risk of attack 2 months before... List goes on. All can be sourced. Just as was the case with the 11-M which became highly polarizing politically something similar is happening here - although not as extreme as the Madrid attacks which involved the government trying to cover up perpetrators until elections, government losing elections and a range of conspiracy theories being launched by major media outlets.

2862:, I know from past experience that the 'injured' numbers, both the 'nationality' and total numbers almost always become inaccurate and contradictory very quickly. Initial figures tend to be confused, but be based on 'ambulance' figures. Later, the follow-on figures tend to include people who 'walked away' on the day, but 'walked in' during the next few days. Just letting you know! Injured figures are often problematic, with little distinction between very major and fairly minor injury. 674: 31: 1130:. Listing every politician in completely unrelated countries who wrote on Twitter that they thought killing people is bad is just unencyclopedic. It's fine to just leave it as one sentence and have some examples in the reference. The only possible notable reactions are practical ones such as closing borders, sending aid, police raids and the like. We would not mention the reaction of Peru's Foreign Minister on 2670:(2) In any event, it is important to underline that the imam was no longer employed at his mosque, as it would adversely impact all of the people who currently worship there, don't you think? Or would an editor rather, by omitting this key piece of information, cast aspersions on the congregation? I, for one, don't think that would be fair to the mosque's worshippers, but hey, if you wanna take it out... 4440:, valid arguments rather than 'counting heads' is what establishes consensus here. I don't feel strongly about the name change, but do feel strongly about the, frankly amateur, 'closing', which makes no attempt to indicate WHY these changers had the best arguments. Of course 'van collision' was not serious. Keep 'as is' was serious, largely because it is still the commonname in Eng sources. 2611:"paragraphs" in the lead, most consisting of one sentence. The same issue can be found in a few sub-headers. For some reason, the "suspect" section is becoming a full-blown list of biographies containing inessential information -- what do we get from knowing a suspect quit his job "abruptly"? Like I said, I realize the facts are still emerging, but this is just sloppy and nonsensical. 353:

Avinguda Diagonal, two police officers were injured, and there was a chase that finished with the driver shot by the police. The police insist these two events might not be related but that the van ramming might be connected with an explosion that happened yesterday in a house in Alcanar (which happened to be followed with another explosion at the same place earlier today).

4702: 4316:(The purpose of Knowledge is to make information readily available to persons using the most common terms for the article .... The name should be that which a person using Knowledge would be most likely to use ... One of the three also has Ghits for the two terms demonstrating that 'Catalonia' is much less frequent in Eng sources) 3789:

objections your input should be discounted. If we are going to constantly ignore BLPCRIME instructions then they should be eraser and we can march bravely forward into calling 99% of celebrities rapists/traitors because some source makes the claim. Never mind conviction requirements, seems to be the line of thought here?

3297:, unless it's to hide redundancy and the lengthy table, we should be cautious about collapsing content, like a table, unless there's a good reason to collapse it. As a user using the desktop view, I just felt forced to click the "show" button to see number of deaths of various nationalities. Why not remove " 3609:. This was as much a "collision" as other Islamist attacks have been deemed to be "workplace violence" (USA) and "mental problems" (Germany). But moving forward, all terrorist vehicular attacks such as Nice, Stockholm, Paris, Barcelona, can be called "collisions" in Knowledge! Yeah! That's the ticket!. 4893:

and possible deletion and most of its content could be merged. The content relies heavily on Spanish language sources and needs thorough review and vetting by someone who speaks fluent Spanish. The article also relies heavily on twitter and other self published sources which need to be subjected to

3679:

Last I checked, that BLPCrime talks about living people, I have never heard about convictions for dead individuals, so your argument is mute. Most of the terrorists are dead, so unless they get a Ouija board, they are never getting one. The article you keep linking for mentions living people, so your

2945:

BLP also applies to the recently dead, but that isn't the main point, which is that it is no part of our function to even slightly act as judge or jury and it is a disservice to readers for us to do so. We don't try to follow these rules because we are stupid or naive, simply because what is possible

2909:

by the government a case of workplace violence, for which there is precedent in the U.S., or mental issues, for which there is precedent in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. One must always look at precedent. Or it could be that the people are freedom fighters, or scientists researching the chemical

2908:

Agree. Just because they had TAPT, which the NYT calls "the Islamic State’s signature explosive, TATP", and 120 propane cylinders at the Alcanar house, does not mean that the men at Alcanar were islamic terrorists in any way, shape, or form. For all we know, this could very well end up being deemed

2637:

I would point out that 'perpetrators' means 'people who did the crime', not accomplices and at present we only know that people have been arrested 'related' to the crime. That relationship may be trivial or serious and certainly doesn't make them 'perpetrators'. BLP certainly applies to the arrested,

2176:

My line of reasoning was that the table took up an excessive amount of vertical space (it really was enormous), looked a bit like a scoreboard which is kind of distasteful, and doesn't really contribute anything of value to the reader's understanding beyond what could be expressed in prose. I have no

940:

I saw that, after. Not where normally found. The American reaction is now the largest paragraph in the entire article, despite being one of the least important parts. It's just words from across an ocean. Makes no sense to have such weight in an article about actions, but in the article about related

925:

It's sourced next to the merica title. I really don't know why we need a "Reaction" article. I can understand until this article gets more in depth... But if I come to read about an attack in 2 years... I don't wanna click 16 different links to find out how my country responds... Ill work on cleaning

634:

If there are very notable reports of hostages might be appropriate to say something like "early reports mentioned that hostages had been taken, but this was not confirmed" or "...officials later stated there were no known hostages" as appopriate. If the reports are just the usual very early confusion

5359:

I believe this person may have had their life support turned off. The numbers have been updated, but not the text or refs. Strictly speaking, this person should not be described as having been killed at La Rambla on the day, as they were one of the injured who later died of their injuries. If anyone

5110:

There is currently a mismatch between infobox (15), casualty table (16), short text (16 but not reffed), and 'expanded text' (13+1+1). I suspect that the 15 figure is correct and that the 16 is 'synthed' from the casualty table figures. As I say elsewhere, it is very difficult to keep the 'injuries'

4804:

I don't know if I agree with using a map of all of Spain, there are reasons against and reasons in favor. BUT, I think we don't need to point out Subirats or the Alcanar explosion. They are not of particular importance nor do they constitute attacks. The map is too cluttered now - more so having the

3437:

guidelines that we not assert any living person has committed a crime unless they are convicted of that crime. I believe we should call this a collision until there is a conviction for that reason. Otherwise it violates BLP which should be of higher concern than what the media (who has no BLP policy

3242:

Is there a particular logic or standard to which locations should be included in the info map at the top right of the article? Right now it shows the sites of the Barcelona attack, Cambrils attack, and the Alcanar explosion. Now there is also an incident in Subirats, and Ripoll is mentioned often in

2415:

Alright, I've updated the translation as follows: «According to security forces investigators, the attacks perpetrated in Barcelona and Cambrils could be the work of a terrorist cell composed of 12 members, of which Abouyaaqoub might be the only one at large.» People are welcome to pitch in if they

2272:

Deaths are more important to friends and family, but there's no recurring effect on the dead themselves or their countrymen. The seriously injured won't soon forget why they can't move, look or think like they used to, and the public (even those who aren't born yet) will continue to see this event's

2243:

It's stupid here, and stupid elsewhere. Do you see this sort of point tallying in the reliable sources we're meant to reflect? Just wastes space and turns tragedy into a competition with arbitrary rules. Why should Spain be leading the pack when it buries five people and is done with them? Shouldn't

1752:

Sure it did. It referenced the call made to billions of strangers nearly three years ago. Makes it clear a living commander didn't phone these fuckers personally to ask a favour last week, as the vaguer "ISIS claims responsibility" might. Not sure where you saw anything about glory, marvel, winning,

1193:

That's fine (although I'm not sure why the US is being singled out), but offering support is still just talking, still routine and doesn't make any individual reaction doing the offering notable enough for inclusion on the main article (and there shouldn't be a separate reactions article for them to

5087:

in this article. In my opinion, the casualty table falls far short of either of those goals. By using primary sources (individual national reports of specific people or families) rather than an official centralised 'count', the table content is pure OR. Some casualties are citizens of more than one

3654:

requirements. I can see many objecting here on grounds of personal opinion and not policy. It seems like a coordinated attack to me too! I get it. But allowing this is a BLP violation. Our opinions do not matter, opinions of media do not matter, only whether a criminal conviction has happened where

2779:

Is there any explanation on why so many French people were injured? I know many French people visit Barcelona but it doesn't seem statistically likely unless they were a group and some light structure fell on them, especially if none of them were killed. It would be interesting to clarify 32 French

1857:

I don't think so. All media that I'm reading say 13 in Barcelona and 1 in Cambrills. -- I think the 16th victim mentioned in our article is a stabbed person in Barcelona (not on the Ramblas) supposed to have been stabbed by the ramming driver during his flight. But this is a mere theory and has not

3965:

I won't add it myself as of yet. But there are controversies regarding media coverage (e.g. Italian newspaper claiming terrorist was an independence activist), reaction of Catalan government in aftermath (Catalan and Spanish victims thing), CUP threatening not to attend rally and blaming King for

2836:

I didn't quite get your "thankful" comment regarding a terrorist attack on my country. Anyhow, turns out it was 28 French, 13 Germans injured. Other nationalities seem to hover around the 3 to 5 figure. I guess that sounds about right for Las Ramblas, and I assume Spaniards would be among the 28

2798:

France is Spain's northern neighbor and over 120,000 Frenchmen live in the country. There is nothing particularly peculiar about there being that many French injuries; be thankful that those are not deaths. Unless you have multiple RS analyzing this statistic, there is no reason to emphasize the

1164:

There are only two sorts of reactions that should be included. 1. Anything that is concrete real-world action, not just a quote or talking about taking action. 2. Any other reaction that is the subject of detailed commentary in reliable sources, about which we can write at least 2-3 sentences of

2752:

is when I can try to fix this mess, when edit conflicts are less likely. Readers (and the victims) deserve a coherent article which keeps speculation and useless trivial to a minimum. I apologize if you do not like the critique of what is partially your work but shabby edits deserve a level of

3788:

Neo-Jay, this is not to make a point, I legitimately think it should be renamed out of concern for the men who were arrested, abiding BLPCRIME. I hadn't read the article until it was pointed out at which point became aware if the problem. This is not a vote folks, if policy does not back your

847:

I've removed all the accumulated quotes and associated flagcruft from the international reactions section. We are here to write encyclopaedic prose about the event not host a list of quotes from all and sundry - Melinia Trump and Jeremy Corbyn aren't even world leaders. Quotes can be added to

352:

The section that describes the attacks mixes two events that have happened during the afternoon in different parts of Barcelona and the information provided is unclear. First there was the Fiat van attack down the Rambla; then during the police operations a Ford Focus ran over a checkpoint in

2710:

We've been down this road before XavierItzm. Being sourced is a necessary, but not a sufficient reason for inclusion, otherwise we would be recording every piece of trivia printed everywhere on the planet about this event. I'm not going to comment in detail, 'cos I haven't looked at the imam

2354:

The source text, in fact, proposes a hypothetical, i.e, «serían», which could be translated as "would be", "might be", or "could be." I agree that a native English speaker would probably not use "would be" twice in a row, but in Spanish the journalist chose to use «serían» twice in the same

1500:

I never had any problem with not calling it a jihadist attack, my problem was with you making it seem like it was because of his "supposed" conversion to Christianity. There is no proof of that, and changing your name to David proves nothing. David is more attributed to Judaism rather then

2210:

The thing that could be removed are the injuries table, but for the actual deaths of the people, you can go change every terror attack page then, since usually they have this sort of table on them. Yes, it looks distasteful, but this is about information, not about your feelings.

4135:

I think there has been an overlap in the discussions which you missed. I tagged you in continued discussion further up. It was agreed by a number of editors (the most active ones here) that there was no grounds for a move specifically to Catalonia attacks for various reasons.

717:) I don't have much knowledge about this. Is this equal to permanent residence in USA? Besides I think the statement calling him "Spanish citizen" should be changed, I don't think I have found it in the three I have searched. If there is a source, then please do add it there. 1382:

Also Pincrete, being a hypocrite since you stated that the Munich shooting was committed by a Christian convert, and there was no proof for that, so obviously you have a bias. You remember this? "The killer turned out to be a convert to Christianity, who was obsessed by mass

5088:

country - yet are are only listed under one - which? And how was the default sort order decided? Alphabetical is generally regarded as neutral, but there seems to be a weighting applied here - who decided that? The totals don't tally with the contents either - there are

5116:

I don't personally see what the table adds that would not be more clearly rendered in text. Death figures are usually accurate, but neither total nor nationalities are usually accurate for injured, especially when using sources from individual's 'local' area/country.

1715:

ISIS, third-person, not ISIS referring to itself. When ISIS releases a statement through official channels, it's far more poetic. Martyrs and glorious merciful Allah and whatnot. The full quote also makes it clear that the writer claims ISIS (via Adnani, who is dead)

2631:

is accused of having done what/where/when. I gave up. Basic copy edit and differences between may be/is/were thought to be need to be applied throughout. This is a confusing story with unfolding elements, but at the moment our account isn't very coherent and is

1293:, except you don't even need to even whisper "Allah Akbar". Mumble anything and unnamed witnesses, who probably wouldn't be able to hear the difference between "Allah Akbar" and the name of the Qatari goalkeeper's grandmother, will swear blind you shouted it! 1321:

Given everything we know, including the Amaq claim, the likelihood is that this is going to be Islamist, however no Spanish authority has stated this yet AFAIK. Therefore I am going to remove references to Islamism. We shouldn't be treating Amaq as a RS.

526:

The Alcanar explosion has been deemed by the police to be related. The explosion was initially thought to be an accident, it is now clear that is was the same jihadist terror cell as the attacks later in the day in the Ramblas and in Avinguda Diagonal.

758:

Melilla is an Spanish enclave on Moroccan territory in the African continent. It is more than probable that he has full Spanish citizenship while being visually indistinguible from the people on the other side of the Melilla border, hence the confusion

2357:

In any event, I am not sure I would characterize the quote as a mistranslation, even if the translation is probably subject to stylistically improvement. I thank you for scrutinizing these things and encourage you to raise any other issues you see.

4415:

There was no consensus to move - It should've been closed as "No Consensus" and I would've said this even if I !voted Support, There were good arguments on both sides and both sides went by one policy but in this case I'm not seeing a consensus.

3634:

If I hit you with a hammer, did you collide with the hammer or did I attack you with the hammer? This was a series of coordinated attacks done by the same individuals, which has been proven multiple times by sources straight from the police.

4463:

stated there was a huge amount of editors (over 30!) agreeing to move the article and giving very good reasons for the move. There were a small minority against - and they gave their reasons. It seems correct to therefore move the article to

1454:

Munich police chief Hubertus Andrä said that the shooting appeared to be a "classic shooting rampage" and not terrorism. Police said that the gunman was obsessed with mass shootings, and that written material on such attacks was found in his

2626:

I agree, text says 1 woman killed in explosion, infobox says 2, if you look down to 'suspects' you find an iman who AFAI can see MAY be a suspect and may be person 2. Different figures for injured all over the place and I can't work out who

2199:

This has been done for almost every terrorist attack in the recent years, and suddenly it's distasteful? Plus it seems out of line of other terrorist attacks, since it's on almost every one of them. Atleast the big Western terror attacks.

1478:

context, which is making the point that superficial 'proofs', prove nothing. Wanting to see sources for all important info is upholding policy on neutrality and accuracy, it is not "being a hypocrite" or "being biased". You should read

1269:

Close. Amaq will call you an ISIS soldier, SITE Intelligence will send this to Western news subscribers, then Western headline writers will spin it into "ISIS Claims Responsibility", because that's worth more than what really happened.

1149:

Countries offering help, or directly impacted should def have a spot. But again the leaders of the Free world (EU, US (insert corny trump isn't a leader of the free world), etc... France legit had the same type of attack a year ago...

1627:. Any editor (me in this case) can challenge a primary source. I invoke my right to challenge the ISIS primary source. Do the encyclopedic thing and provide secondary and tertiary sources, while paraphrasing them to avoid plagiarism. 1343:. I don't know about you, but when I read WP, I have little interest in notable political commentators speculating about motives, unless it is phrased as speculation. I have ZERO interest in your speculations being phrased as fact, 2352:"According to the investigation initiated by the security forces, the attacks perpetrated in Barcelona and Cambrils would be the work of a terrorist cell composed of 12 members, of which Abouyaaqoub would be the only one at large." 773:

You are making an assumption. The sources specifically state the guy is either "Magrebí" (African) or Moroccan. Besides, no Spanish person from Melilla is ever called a "Magrebí", unless the person actually has Magrebí ancestry.

512:"Firefighters found about 20 gas cylinders in the house after it exploded. One person was killed". If that many gas cylinders are there all the time because they are rented away etc. it was an accident. If not, it was an attack. -- 4252:

was barely touched upon in the debate, and the posters who did mention it (notably, yourself) only provided an assertion that "Barcelona attack" is the one, but did not provide much evidence. The title began as a descriptive one,

4515:

What is the procedure for contesting the move. Most of us are unhappy with it, no valid reasons were provided and it was done without consensus. I do think it would be easier if you just undid it but otherwise we will have to

2348:«Según la investigación iniciada por las fuerzas de seguridad, los atentados perpetrados en Barcelona y Cambrils serían obra de una célula terrorista compuesta por 12 miembros, de los cuales Abouyaaqoub sería el único huido.». 1818:

There was 1 dead in the explosion, 13 in Barcelona, and 1 in Cambrills. That's what you read everywhere. The article mentions a 16th victim, who was apparently stabbed in Barcelona after the ramming. Nobody's reporting this.

450:

There is no official conformation that these two incidents were connected. If there is an official conformation from the authorities in Catalonia that these two incidents are in fact connected, we can put in a move request.

195:

The legal definition of an establishment as a bar or restaurant is often the percentage of income from sale of alcohol versus the percentage of income from sale of food. What are the laws in Barcelona? Do the media know? --

1473:

Sonboly certainly was not a practising Muslim and therefore unlikely to have shouted 'God is great' as the single unnamed Kosovar CNN 'eye-witnesss' claimed (then went silent), so the description is pretty accurate in the

3200:

Ooops possibly not, "It was confirmed by Spanish police that Satty was among etc" suggests that his death might now be confirmed, I don't have time to check/fix, I hope someone will. This is happing a lot on this article

4994: 4890: 3585:

mhmm, and what is your response to the fact the "collision" was not the only component of the attack, and that there are connected attacks discussed in the article which have nothing to do with the van being used as a

1439:, then the text and source (Spanish PM) need to be in the article, readers and other editors are not mind-readers, they want/need/are entitled to know why a claim is made. It should not only be true, but be verifiable. 1090:

If you're trying to say "two" figuratively, best to go with "dozens", "thousands" or "billions". Sixteen sounds like a real number. If Knowledge was primarily written for people who enter tunnels during articles, it'd

2672:(3) The fact the imam quit his imam mosque job is relevant, as it raises questions as to the behavior of the suspect. To mention another terrorist example, in the San Bernardino islamist attack, Knowledge reads: « 2021:"Until now, Knowledge has largely avoided the spotlight" suggests they've never used Google. Googling their quote ""to improve coverage of Islam-related articles" finds no discussions on Knowledge, but "to improve 3538:- This was not a road accident but rather a vehicle ramming. Also, the ramming aspect was not the only part of the attack so there is no reason to make it appear as if it was by changing the title in this manner. 5316:

Agreed, and that's what I proposed at the top here, but I couldn't muster enough support to form a consensus to delete it all. So the compromise of deleting just the non-fatalities was the best I could get. --

5015:- Why is this discussion even taking place? There is growing consensus at AfD to delete this in unencyclopedic quote farm. This needs to be closed so we can follow the outcome of the AfD as we are supposed to. 3486:, whether or not this was accident or attack is decided in court not tabloids. It violates BLPCRIME for us to assert it was an attack. Instead we should be reporting which notable sources called it an attack. 4347:

I am happy to acknowledge that the discussion centres - or should have centred - on whether the second attack necessitates the more accurate 'Catalonia' or whether we go for the less accurate, but more used

3942:

Try adding one if you feel the material is strong enough. The criteria will be the same as any other content, ie whether there is sufficient coverage to justify it, certainly NOT what we assume MAY happen,

2327:

The use of 'would be' in both cases makes it hypothetical. Most likely correct Eng. is 'were' and 'was' for the first and 2nd uses respectively, but I'd rather a fluent bilingual person made the change.

1463:

Sonboly's parents told police that their son had possibly converted to Christianity, but that he was not religious. In May 2016, Sonboly had his name changed in all official documents from Ali to David.

1075:

Glad you're taking 16 literally. I'm riding the train to work, reading articles on my phone... I open this and go into the tunnel under the city with no service. Guess what I can't do? Click on useless

4805:

map of all of Spain. Just keep Las Ramblas and Cambrils. The rest is just pointless IMO. We don't need a map showing where an accident occurred nor where the last terrorist was found a few days later.

3243:

the article as where many of the perpetrators lived/grew up. I would consider these two places important enough to the events and far away enough from Barcelona to warrant their inclusion in the map.

5111:

figures accurate in these situations because of the reasons de Facto gives and because 'injuries' often double after the initial day's figures, with wide discrepancies in figures used by sources.

2931:

Once again, they are dead, hence there is gonna be no trial. BLPCrime does not apply. The living suspects are included in a seperate section and there are no references to them being terrorists

2497: 513: 420: 2244:

France be winning with 32 injured who retain French citizenship and potential to burden its health and social systems? Until the game has verifiable rules, it should be called off as synthesis.

3097:

this should be? Appears to be mostly UK spelling, but not wholly. Before anyone says, they speak Spanish/Catalan in Barcelona, so British English has NO connection to the subject what so ever,

4312:

was barely touched upon in the debate, and the posters who did mention it (notably, yourself) only provided an assertion that "Barcelona attack" is the one, but did not provide much evidence.

2748:

I actually fully intend to edit this article. One of the unfortunate inevitabilities about these kinds of articles is a large portion of editors stop giving a damn about them in a week or so.

4191:, not good enough, if you close a discussion, you should expect to offer some rationale. Your rationale appears to be 'counting votes', which is explicitly what these discussions are NOT. 1047:

Do encyclopedias have 16 different articles for 1 incident? Also the United States is the fore front of the free world and the fight against the Islamic state. People care what they say.

4207:

is ' Catalonia attacks' rather than 'Barcelona attacks'. Commonname IS the wider consensus, ignoring it because a second minor attack occurred outside Barcelona is the 'local' argument.

684:

I'd suggest this other picture which actually shows quite clearly the intersection from Plaça Catalunya from where the van got into the central promenade by the pedestrian crossing

5304:

That's half as bad, so twice as good. But still nothing a sentence couldn't cover in less space. The table doesn't even fit in its section, spills over to Suspects after two rows.

619:

There is no conformation of any hostages that have been taken. I think it should be removed until there is official conformation from authorities. Should mention of it be removed?

2076:

for removing your comment - Upon entering my !vote above instead of getting an edit conflict it decided to remove peoples comments ... no idea why but regardless my apologies. –

4046:

I have reverted the move. There was no consensus and eventually general agreement not to move the article, particularly to Catalonia attacks, the least valid of three options.

3927:

This is Spain we are talking about and there is enough material to create a controversy section, which we can all safely assume will grow exponentially over the coming weeks.

2977:

is not made in Knowledge's voice, is made by major reliable sources as cited, and thus Knowledge is not acting as "judge and jury" here as long as reliable sources are given.

2676:» Perhaps TheGracefulSlick would care to go edit that article, as perhaps he might not "get" anything from the terrorist looking at his phone before he started the attack? 2005:

The chumps at the Daily Mail simply don't understand the nature of Knowledge, nor what is meant by free speech and freedom of expression. The 'newspaper' is best ignored.

129:

Eventually pages like this always get protected by the anti-IP zealots. Just wait a while and some misguided admin, working against policy, will be along to do the stuff.

3049: 2277:

money). When ranking national impact rather than familial, the injured are far weightier. Even so, without knowing the seriousness of each injury, we can't give France

1904:). So yeah, it's still not safe and I think we should be careful, but at least it's out there now. At first, the whole thing wasn't mentioned anywhere except wikipedia. 4261:

descriptor for the "where" part. I did not feel that the close requires elaboration, as the consensus was so overwhelming. I shall explain further at the move review.

1501:

Christianity, so there is as much of a chance of him converting to Judaism. So no, you weren't accurate, you were applying your bias to the description of an event.

1015:

You know damn well that the reactions are meaningful. People want to know what country says what. Guaranteed the other articles will be more full in the coming days.

2913:. We just don't know at this point, and have no way of knowing. In any event, any survivors at Alcanar are mere suspects at this point, and if determined that 1210:

Again, Leader of the Free World offers their support. That is an important aspect. The Leaders of their overall union did aswell... Not many others offered help.

1061:

Where's sixteen coming from? People can either click the "main article" Wikilink once and scroll, or click the footnote once, scroll and click again. Two, tops.

3519:

a van hitting people, whether accidental or intentional, is very much a collision. These move discussions are by separate nominators and over separate issues.

3078:

They also found traces of the Islamic State's signature explosive, TATP, which is relatively cheap but highly volatile because it explodes at low temperatures.

2607:

I realize the aspects of this incident are still changing because of the investigation and search, but can we please tidy up this article? There are currently

1938:

Moussa Oukabir, Said Aallaa, Mohamed Hychami and two others are the ones shot dead in Cambrilis. As the attackers of Cambrilis, they are definitely the ones. (

2313: 5225:

I would propose then to remove the injuries part of the table, and stick to the deaths. If a very specific table is needed, there is also one on the Spanish

2468:

involving a citation to a non-English source, editors may request that a quotation of relevant portions of the original source be provided" (emphasis added)

1165:

sourced encyclopaedic prose (Trump's reaction to the Charlotteville violence is a good example of this latter). Everything else belongs only on Wikiquote.

4581:

and have it moved back (under a controversial move perhaps?) and then No Such User could reopen and relist the discussion for another week or 2, Thanks, –

1255:

They can take responsibility for anything. You can get on a train without tickets and scream "Allah Akbar", and ISIL will happily call you its warrior. --

3456:

This was not a road traffic accident. Unless clear evidence emerges to the contrary, someone did this thinking that their chosen deity was going to be

1879:

Yes, the 16th victim seems to be the stabbed person. It's now being reported that he was stabbed by the Ramblas attacker. So apparently 16 is correct.

1585:

Listen, there is no censoring. ISIS claimed responsibility and that is still in the article, twice. Making the article into an ISIS quotefarm is lazy.

1897: 2893:

By extension, referring to any of the men killer in Alcanar as terrorists seems like something to also avoid as that could impact trial of survivor.

79: 4660: 1882:

Is it? I still haven't heard anything about the Ramblas attacker doing that except for the sole source (the Australian) about it in this article.

815: 3650:

technically the hammer collides with me if you do that. Police are not juries, police statements do not qualify as convictions and do not satisfy

287: 100:

I'm new at editing Knowledge, but a user keeps vandalizing the page. Can they be banned or something? Also this page should be protected for now.

913:

Source that shit, at least. I don't see the point of having a reactions article if we're going to get verbose about uninvoled states here, too.

487:

Spanish police are saying a house explosion last night in Alcanar, Spain (100km south of Barcelona) is connected to todays attack in Barcelona.

899:

How about we not delete the reactions until people can finish them? thanks. Also Why do we have an entire 'nother page for only the reactions?

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and suggest speedy close as another rename discussion is open above. What is the logic, this wasn't only in Barcelona and wasn't a collision!

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It is okay. There is an option to show an overview map of Spain including the Canary Islands, with the location of Barcelona highlighted. --

4956:. We need to wait until a reliable secondary source interprets the data and assembles its analysis of world reaction, if one ever does. -- 3038: 2273:

consequences through them. Those who can't work still need to cover living expenses on top of their medical expenses, unlike the dead (who

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and it makes no sense at all to have both happening at once. I am probably entitled to close this myself, but would prefer that you do so.

2890:

we should not refer to this man accused of terrorism as a terrorist, only report which media police have done so, unless he is convicted.

3397:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

5034:

No consensus is a draw. In a draw, Keep wins by not losing. Now that everything's stayed as it was, everything should stay where it is.

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And the commonname being used in English media is? A naming discussion is explicitly NOT a ballot, so 100s of editors voting either way

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I wasn't implying that we were currently "acting as judge or jury", except in the sense of caring one way or another how much evidence

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I think that targets: "Civilian, tourists" is not correct. Tourists are civilians too, and maybe "pedestrians" would be more accurate.

2549:

The mother believes the imam may have radicalized her son but at no point does the source call him the leader of the terrorist cell...

2513:

The terrorist wrote on internet back in 2015: "I would kill all the infidels, would only allow the muslims who follow the religion".

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The article says the hostages are in a "Turkish restaurant", a lot of media are reporting it's a bar. Do we know with certainty yet?

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/a-mastermind-has-brainwashed-them-family-of-barcelona-terror-suspect-speak-out-1.3192201

2025:

coverage of Islam-related articles" is part of the WikiProject Islam template. I hope they're not wasting time trying to talk to it.

3360:

Can we add a "Suspects" in the fatality chart? It can add up the total actual casualties... Because its over 20 if you include them.

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One quote, that adds context, and illustrates the ISIS thinking - however vile that thinking is - does not constitute a quote farm.

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in 2015 about whether the magazine itself is a suitable external link. At the time of writing, this particular link is still up.--

1973: 1901: 3741:. The move obviously isn't going to happen, could an un-involved admin assess the consensus, and if they agree, close this now? 3167: 2380:, which makes no sense in context. The first use makes more sense, but looks improvable, since the attacks were not hypothetical. 2120:

on Knowledge as far as I can see, although it might be available via various citations and external links. There was a debate at

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Most editors editing here consistently seem to agree that there are valid grounds not to move the article to Catalonia attacks.

3988:

As a general rule, articles should not have criticism/controversy sections, because they often lead to a range of problems with

4387:

It's happened now and the world has not ended, but I'm sorry, what I see is 'counting heads', not weighing up valid arguments.

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is not the deciding factor. As I say above, it is the total absence of rationale above which is annoying, why did we bother?

2638:

besides this adds to the incoherence, when everyone is equally guilty of everything, nobody is actually accused of anything.

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pointed to them being terrorists. A ton of evidence on its own counts for nothing, an explicit statement from investigators

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2294:

If table height is a problem, table can be collapsed adding these values to CSS "class" parameter "collapsible collapsed".

439:

There has been a second attack confirmed where 2 police officers have been run over at a checkpoint from the first attack.

5070:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

4166:, with support of over 30 people. What happened later was an informal discussion between 4-5 editors. Feel free to open a 597:

meaningless platitudes. The only difference between the uttered ones and the unuttered is a location in place of a blank.

1029:

I know nothing of the sort. Curious people click the Reactions link in the Reactions section. It's prominently blue, and

5244: 1260: 380: 3947:. Sometimes these events spawn years of controversy, sometimes they fizzle out or become very peripheral very quickly. 3828:

ScratchMarshall, there is a difference between whether a 'crime' occurred and who, if anyone, was responsible for it.

2316:: "According to the investigation initiated by the security forces, the attacks perpetrated in Barcelona and Cambrils 2205: 1245: 681:

The picture used on the Attack section is from the southernmost part of La Rambla which was uninvolved on the events.

324: 283: 47: 17: 5357:(I have heard both and Gk sources often don't distinguish between citizenship and ethnicity, ie Pete Sampras is Gk!). 3163: 5375:

The tough one here is editing the lead to include this victim. I tried to earlier and gave up. Has it been done yet?

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the merging of this arbitrary collection of cherry-picked, primary-sourced comments into this article - it is pure

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Farook had been quiet for the duration of the event, and that he had been looking at his phone before his departure

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Are we sure this is a Islamic attack? If an American falls and scraps their knee, ISIL would claim responsibility.

1135: 119: 38: 4318:. There are others making similar, less explicit arguments about the greater familiarity of 'Barcelona' as a term. 4085: 3430: 3062: 1647:

How it is quote farming stating "ISIL has claim responsibility"? It should be added, and it should not be removed.

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has any relevancy here, it must be applied in full to the extent that it may apply. No exceptions of any sort.

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/aug/17/barcelona-attack-van-driven-into-crowd-in-las-ramblas-district

4629:

I'm relatively new to wikipedia. Would it be possible for you to do it for me. I gave it a shot and failed. :-(

3701:- and why has this move request been opened whilst another is still under discussion further up this talk page? 1768:

I see. You are referencing something that's not in the article. Do you have a problem with the current wording?

1623:

And, instead of using a secondary source to illustrates the ISIS thinking, you use a primary source and conduct

979:

And now, with Ireland and France, the Reactions section is the largest section in the article. Full of nothing.

816:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/national/spanish-police-shoot-kill-4-suspects-in-separate-alleged-terror-plot/594459885

5056: 4682: 4171: 2161:, and without discussion? It seems to summarise important and widely reported information in a compact format. 1127: 501: 185: 4358:, they were arguing that Sp or Cat WP had changed name. Not one supporter even addressed the commonname issue. 1294: 706: 5226: 2818: 1869: 764: 691: 114:

I'm not up for banning folks, but I just reverted some vandalism. I think the page should be protected, too.

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My apologies I didn't even know Move Review even existed!, So as such I've now struck the above, Thanks, –

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Can we get some consensus on what is and what is not a suitable inclusion for international reactions per

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http://www.newsweek.com/barcelona-attack-suspect-moussa-oukabir-posted-kill-infidels-social-media-652058

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/19/manhunt-van-driver-police-search-foryounes-abouyaaqoub-final/

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was in British English - or at least, not American English - so I would support sticking with that. --

2225:

I agree that the table for casualties should be reinstated. This is usually the case in these articles.

1942:) Younes Abouyaaqoub is supceted to be the driver and his documents were found in a second van in Vic ( 371:

Thanks, I was going to say the same. When editing slows down tomorrow this can be cleaned up properly.

5290:

The table now uses a single source, which removes OR and makes the table content fully verifiable. --

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ceased to be a core policy, and what in the discussion persuaded you that the common name in English

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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/17/barcelona-attack-suspect-identified-as-moroccan-man.amp.html

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term. Many people above are new editors, they are often arguing that there were many, many attacks

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It's in the article twice. Just not as a quote about "glorious winning marvelous soldiers of God".

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As discussion seems to have dried-up, I removed the casualties column, leaving the fatalities. --

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discussed in a separate section and it was agreed by most editors that the page should not be move

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on Knowledge, but it isn't this article. It's unclear which article(s) they are referring to, but

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I have no objection to the use of the word "inspired". But the quote did not make anything clear.

744:

Oukabir has been described by the major Spanish newspapers as "magrebí", i.e., of Moroccan origin.

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being the relevant convention, and most posters pointed out that Barcelona is not a sufficiently

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There were 13 victims in La Rambla, and 1 more by injuries. So total victims in La Rambla is 14.

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Two minutes after they're written they're meaningless platitudes. 08:24, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

565: 335: 197: 2045:) published "just six days ago". Not sure how that timeline works, but might narrow it down. 1919:

Might it be good to decide which form of the name we're going to use and then be consistent?

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mentioned so that other readers could understand the context and make their own judgments.--

3702: 3681: 3636: 3329: 3094: 2932: 2910: 2461: 2299: 2216: 1978: 1946:). I think this needs to be added and adequate changes made to the article to reflect this. 1844: 1828: 1508: 1436: 1401: 1384: 624: 456: 303: 105: 5376: 5355:

I believe there is now another victim, possibly a Greek person or a German of Gk ancestry

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Only logic I am aware of is that the map should remain clear/readable on all screen sizes

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means NO OR, not "only a little OR when the answer is as plain as the nose on your face".

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I did not say that this was to make a point. I just provided a link for the content that

1940:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/barcelona-attack-terror_uk_5996fedde4b0e8cc855d4676

5095:

I propose we delete this table from the article and record just the verified totals. --

4162:

One last comment before I go: I closed the formal, widely advertised, debate to move to

3855:

Though everyone notes the absurdity of the move, I point out here that reliable sources

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Says the content was added "just 12 days ago" and includes stuff al Qaeda (presumably

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The Prime Minister of Spain, called it a jihadist attack, so that ends that argument

1365: 1361: 1323: 1298: 653:. They say there was no hostage-taking, so I think the sentence ought to be deleted. 577: 404:, not the Islands. I would correct it myself but it seems automatically generated. -- 361: 157: 2116:

The DM article is, as ever, sloppily written. None of this material is/was actually

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Then they must be Jehovah Witnesses. Really people, name the things what they are.

465:

There is however confirmation that this is related to a bombing the day prior....

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and my reverts. Other opinions required here, I think (see the edit summaries).

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

4659:"Catalonia attacks" is actually getting some usage in English media. Examples: 4199:.... ?????? We wait with baited breath. Perhaps you would care to address when 3290: 1858:

been confirmed. The confirmed death toll seems to be 1 + 13 + 1 = 15, not 16.

4855:

Afd Concensus was keep by default I am informed since there was no concensus.

3912:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

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The injuries are not that important, but deaths are, and need to be included.

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Look the bottom line is that going by what editors "get" instead of what the

1720:

the attack, not planned, funded or directed it, as "responsibility" implies.

4108:#Change name of article from 2017 Barcelona attack to 2017 Catalonia attacks 2469: 1545: 550: 401: 356:

Just writing it down here to keep things clear and help people's editing. --

707:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/17/driss-oubakir-barcelona-suspect/

435:

Change name of article from 2017 Barcelona attack to 2017 Barcelona attacks

5360:

knows about this or has access to sources, I can't seem to find anything.

4000:

and some of the mudslinging that has occurred as a result of the attack.--

2320:

the work of a terrorist cell composed of 12 members, of which Abouyaaqoub

2104:. Allegedly for copyright violations, not fear of the British government. 2946:

or even what is probable is different from what is known. XavierItzm, no

2177:

objection to summarizing the key points of the table in text form in the

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summarily deletes all translations of sources cited in foreign languages

5389:

Not AFAIK, but I don't have a source on which to base/back up changes.

3028:

http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2017/08/18/5996ab4aca474100368b460d.html

2535:

The leader of the terrorist cell was an imam... any more questions...?

715:

http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2017/08/17/5995d32d468aeb0d4c8b45b7.html

2376:

In English, this use begs the question "would be .... if what?" eg he

2281:

Spain the gold medal with any certainty and shouldn't hazard a guess.

2094:

All good. It's happened to me, too. Back on topic, the same user also

1457:

There was also a lot of speculation about Sonboly being obsessed with

3178:

Fixed "is believed" is correct, date is correct, Alcanar is correct.

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removing injuries and keeping just fatalities, as a good start. --

4314:

I suggest you revisit remarks by Davey2010, - de Facto, - Collect

863:

Can we start to elaborate on it then? Instead of "multiple nations"

576:

Ditch them. Two months from now they'll be meaningless platitudes.

4828:

is a way of having 'scalable' maps, but I don't know how to do it.

3063:"Spain Looking for Moroccan Man in Barcelona Attack Investigation" 672: 5229:

of this page (which seems to be way more accurate then this one.

3433:– I believe titling this an "attack" is presently a violation of 3289:

to collapse the statistics table just for desktop view. However,

2656:«what do we get from knowing a suspect quit his job "abruptly"? » 788:

The Melillan is the second guy arrested, I'd assumed. Maybe not.

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Understood. Wasn't blaming you, just appraising what remained.

5075:

Non-neutral and original research casualty table needs deleting

334:

Tourists are typically some other country's civilians, though.

4080:

but I don't see it. Just before that, I closed the concurrent

2780:

injured and zero deaths unless the initial figures were wrong?

1179:

I added "have offered support" then to the reactions section.

25: 4028:

Who has moved the article?? There was no consensus to move it

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Knowledge:Move_review/Log/2017_August#2017_Catalonia_attacks

2059:

1,221 bytes of "inappropriate external links" yoinked today.

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amount of injuries French people suffered in this incident.

1345:(even though they are likely to be proven right in X hours) 3460:

proud of them, like many similar incidents of this kind.--

549:

No condolence quotes, please. They aren't encyclopedic. --

5092:

15 deaths itemised in the table, but the total gives 16.

732:

I've called him a Moroccan-born Ripoll resident for now.

705:

The Telegraph calls Oukabir a "legal resident" in Spain (

221: 2442:

And it all becomes utterly moot, as WWGB goes ahead and

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The full quote makes it clear that someone is talking

877:

If you can write some prose and not just a list, yes.

3902:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

3863:

use the term "attack" and that this does not involve

2813:

French border is just about 150km north of Barcelona

1823:

The stabbed woman is the 1 person dead in Cambrills.

926:

them up slowly, just fix any crappy grammar mistakes

814:

4 Suspects were show and killed in a follow up raid?

489:

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/898292500363792384

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I have to go now, but I point to your attention the

1896:

Some media still treat it as a theory (for example,

651:

https://twitter.com/mossos/status/898250170139373568

3401:. No further edits should be made to this section. 4110:, where the proposal got an overwhelming support. 4081: 4069: 3916:. No further edits should be made to this section. 3733:- I believe the editor only opened this to make a 3147:the accidental explosion in Alcanar on 16 August. 3099:(apart from being inherently superior of course !) 2389:"Could be" would make more sense in both uses (ie 848:Wikiquote and that page linked from this article. 669:Picture of "Promenade where the attack took place" 396:Currently the infobox offers to show a map of the 3320:It was just a suggestion to concerns raised here 2682:say, we get into this sort of I "get", you "get". 4913:was no consensus. Merge Discussion reinstated. 4824:was clearer and that present has too much info. 2378:would be the only one at large ... if he escaped 4995:There is already a deletion discussion underway 4717:can reopen and relist the discussion, Thanks, – 4577:- Just a suggestion but you could always go to 4542:Most are happy with the move. Why did you say: 4248:I do not close based on headcounting. However, 3996:. This article isn't the best place to look at 3552:any evaluating admins should note that this is 3000:, is rendered verbatim without question by us. 156:. Please discuss any page moves here first. -- 4068:How so? As an uninvolved editor, I closed the 3655:the government has decided they are at fault. 1033:know damn well it doesn't take sixteen tries. 709:). Fox News calls him as a Moroccan citizen. ( 4350:(and more likely to be remembered in X years) 3556:, I proposed we use COLLISION, not ACCIDENT. 2711:material. BTW, I think TheGracefulSlick is a 2668:say, not by what editor may "get" or not get. 2314:this source is almost certainly mistranslated 1540:, and a not-at-all subtle difference between 1424:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40975552 1095:be on one page. All sixteen megabytes of it. 713:) El Mundo says he has a residence dcument. ( 8: 5173:15 is correct figure and 16 must be synthed. 4193:Here you say "I will address the issue soon" 3222:OK fixed, Es Satty's death is now confirmed. 4975:as for the reasons listed in the proposal. 1354:"Gaditano23 says it's not likely to be IRA" 1238:ISIL has claimed authorship of the attack. 75:Good source for live updating on this story 5230: 3718:simply because of the other move request. 3387:The following is a closed discussion of a 3305:" while retaining the show/hide button? -- 1859: 1502: 1461:, some of which was true, some not. Plus : 818: 491: 273: 175: 5079:As we know, we are obliged to maintain a 3438:as strong as Knowledge's) is calling it. 3303:wikitable sortable floatright collapsible 2577:Yes, quite sure. 100% sure it is Islamic. 4072:where I see a wide consensus to move to 3859:call the event a "collision", that they 3203:(people only changing one piece of text) 2837:categorized as "unknown" for the moment. 2206:November 2015 Paris attacks - Casualties 649:The Catalan police addressed this here: 3160:at the same section, only one paragraph 3020: 1900:), some treat it as fact (for example, 1695: 1416: 635:though, then straight removal is best. 564:I plead with you all, do as John says. 5051:- Just let this one go and move on. - 4911:Reactions to the 2017 Barcelona attack 4887:Reactions to the 2017 Barcelona attack 4883:Reactions to the 2017 Barcelona attack 4846:Reactions to the 2017 Barcelona attack 4780:- I decided to move the discussion to 4077: 2498:2001:569:7911:C900:E0E5:6CA7:C471:F57D 514:2001:A62:11E9:4C01:AD8A:5BA0:C499:6F7D 421:2001:A62:11E9:4C01:AD8A:5BA0:C499:6F7D 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3138:· two incompatible affirmations, here 2882:Alcanar survivor accused of terrorism 2122:Talk:Dabiq_(magazine)#Issue_Link_list 677:Promenade where the attack took place 7: 5169:nb mismatched numbers are now fixed 4872:The following discussion is closed. 4197:here "the matter is being discussed" 3406:The result of the move request was: 3321: 3154:the initial Alcanar house explosion. 3061:RAPHAEL MINDER; RUKMINI CALLIMACHI. 1532:There's a subtle difference between 941:words, it makes perfect sense. Just 483:Related attack in Alcanar, Catalonia 149:The page has been moved back to the 3324:. You can remove it, I don't mind. 2684:I for one, propose we stick to the 1934:Moussa and others dead in Cambrilis 4885:be merged into this article. The 4488:(many of whom are new editors btw) 24: 4889:article is currently flagged for 4084:because it was apparent that the 5066:The discussion above is closed. 4881:Suggestion that the contents of 4700: 3301:" to turn class parameter into " 2202:2016 Brussels bombings - Victims 2158:Why has this table been deleted 348:Mixed events in "Attack" section 29: 3293:doesn't collapse it. Also, per 2464:, "As with sources in English, 4993:, please close this proposal. 4544:Most of us are unhappy with it 4438:There was no consensus to move 4082:#Requested move 19 August 2017 4070:#Requested move 18 August 2017 2391:it's possible, but not certain 2350:The quoted text as of now, is: 1352:Would you care to add as refs 593:Those two months from now are 1: 3380:Requested move 19 August 2017 1408:) 17:52 18 August 2017 (UTC) 4086:2017 Barcelona van collision 3680:argument is especially mute. 3431:2017 Barcelona van collision 5399:18:56, 27 August 2017 (UTC) 5385:18:52, 27 August 2017 (UTC) 5370:17:48, 27 August 2017 (UTC) 5339:23:12, 25 August 2017 (UTC) 5327:15:14, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 5312:02:08, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 5300:11:39, 22 August 2017 (UTC) 5285:11:10, 22 August 2017 (UTC) 5266:18:44, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 5247:) 2017-08-21T18:36:14 (UTC) 5183:16:52, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 5127:13:04, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 5105:10:56, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 5061:01:44, 27 August 2017 (UTC) 5042:01:23, 27 August 2017 (UTC) 5025:18:26, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 5007:09:29, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4985:17:42, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4966:20:45, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 4942:20:24, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 4923:00:07, 27 August 2017 (UTC) 4904:20:23, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 4865:04:10, 27 August 2017 (UTC) 4838:10:59, 25 August 2017 (UTC) 4815:10:40, 25 August 2017 (UTC) 4794:01:06, 25 August 2017 (UTC) 4772:21:38, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4752:02:05, 25 August 2017 (UTC) 4731:20:11, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4688:19:55, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4639:19:10, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4595:19:05, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4556:19:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4526:18:30, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4500:17:54, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4478:17:39, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4450:16:46, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4430:16:29, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4397:08:18, 25 August 2017 (UTC) 4271:07:21, 25 August 2017 (UTC) 4217:17:13, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4184:15:32, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4170:, but I don't think that a 4146:14:52, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4120:14:50, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4098:14:39, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4056:14:35, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4042:14:31, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 4018:10:08, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 3976:09:45, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 3957:09:35, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 3937:09:12, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 3894:20:45, 22 August 2017 (UTC) 3877:11:25, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3838:18:21, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3824:04:07, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3799:19:28, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 3781:04:38, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 3751:02:58, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 3726:20:34, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3711:20:19, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3690:20:47, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3665:20:42, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3645:18:31, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3619:18:13, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3596:18:23, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3566:17:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3548:17:38, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3529:17:33, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3515:17:23, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3496:17:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3478:16:59, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3448:16:44, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 3420:09:23, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 3370:16:05, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 3348:21:45, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 3334:21:37, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 3315:20:37, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 3271:08:07, 22 August 2017 (UTC) 3253:07:18, 22 August 2017 (UTC) 3232:22:58, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3215:22:49, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3188:22:39, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3172:22:01, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3152:is believed to have died in 3129:18:41, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3110:18:12, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 3010:12:51, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 2987:11:28, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 2960:08:49, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 2941:21:55, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2927:21:55, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2903:19:34, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2872:09:47, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 2847:09:05, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 2823:08:34, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 2809:07:04, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 2790:03:22, 21 August 2017 (UTC) 2763:22:52, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2725:18:41, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2698:18:16, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2648:11:57, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2621:04:17, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2587:14:30, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2573:03:56, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2559:03:25, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2545:02:53, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2523:13:46, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 2506:20:59, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 2478:13:59, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2456:13:20, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2426:12:07, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2403:11:37, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2368:11:20, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2338:10:59, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 2304:21:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2289:23:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2267:21:04, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2252:20:26, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2235:18:12, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2221:17:40, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2191:13:10, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2171:13:03, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2142:19:53, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2112:19:44, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2090:19:43, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2068:19:36, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2053:19:33, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2033:19:24, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2015:18:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 2000:15:34, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1956:13:40, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1929:12:00, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1892:04:21, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1874:01:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1849:17:43, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1833:17:30, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1800:18:57, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1784:03:55, 19 August 2017 (UTC) 1764:23:49, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1753:God or primary sources; it 1748:23:30, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1728:21:11, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1677:17:17, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1657:11:59, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1643:08:29, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1619:08:24, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1601:08:20, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1580:08:18, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1556:22:14, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1521:21:50, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1493:20:39, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1393:17:54, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1374:18:34, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1332:17:54, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1307:17:43, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1278:00:55, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1265:23:17, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1250:21:00, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1220:14:51, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1204:13:58, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1189:11:49, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1175:08:22, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 1160:23:27, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1144:23:08, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1103:23:28, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1086:23:22, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1069:23:20, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1057:23:13, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1041:23:09, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 1025:23:03, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 987:23:01, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 953:22:52, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 936:22:47, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 921:22:44, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 909:22:40, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 887:19:20, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 873:18:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 858:18:22, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 837:12:08, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 796:20:56, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 784:10:57, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 769:08:50, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 754:04:53, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 740:01:28, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 727:00:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 696:08:39, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 663:08:34, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 645:18:40, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 629:18:31, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 605:20:53, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 586:02:39, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 572:23:55, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 559:23:29, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 537:05:26, 18 August 2017 (UTC) 522:21:49, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 506:21:31, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 475:23:23, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 461:20:17, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 429:22:45, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 414:21:54, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 386:22:03, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 366:21:47, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 342:22:38, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 329:22:02, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 308:16:23, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 292:21:32, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 206:20:38, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 190:16:42, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 165:17:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 139:21:00, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 124:19:19, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 110:17:15, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 91:17:17, 17 August 2017 (UTC) 18:Talk:2017 Barcelona attacks 5417: 4709:- I've now listed this at 3765:Talk:Unite the Right rally 3739:Talk:Unite the Right rally 3338:Thanks. It's been done. -- 2998:(with or without evidence) 2446:! Yippee ki-yay! Wowza! 2416:see room for improvement! 4088:was inappropriate title. 145:Please discuss page moves 5068:Please do not modify it. 4874:Please do not modify it. 4205:(not Catalan or Spanish) 3909:Please do not modify it. 3394:Please do not modify it. 2994:(eg gas canisters, TAPT) 2309:Translation from Spanish 2072:Unrelated but apologies 1566:Please see the edits by 1194:be included in either). 3482:not interested in your 2324:the only one at large. 1972:has found something to 271:Telenotícies Vespre TV3 4466:2017 Catalonia attacks 4164:2017 Catalonia attacks 4074:2017 Catalonia attacks 3260:(ie not too much info) 1459:Anders Behring Breivik 1132:Attack on Pearl Harbor 678: 5081:neutral point of view 4973:Stronly support merge 4174:beats the wider one. 3427:2017 Barcelona attack 3277:Casualties statistics 3238:Locations on info map 2664:(1)We go by what the 1915:La Rambla/Las Ramblas 1341:Have you heard of RS? 1136:Anarcho-authoritarian 810:More Suspects killed? 676: 247:Local Twitter updates 154:2017 Barcelona attack 42:of past discussions. 4711:RM (Uncontroversial) 3923:Controversy Section? 3285:: I appreciate your 2346:The source text is: 2179:"Casualties" section 1755:clearly wasn't here. 1450:2016 Munich shooting 701:Spanish or Moroccan? 253:EmergènciesCatalunya 4909:The Afd result for 3998:Catalan nationalism 3554:arguing a straw man 3164:PLA y Grande Covián 2886:Out of concern for 2466:if a dispute arises 2096:yoinked 1,094 bytes 1982:is a possibility.-- 1548:, if anyone cares. 1317:Islamic terrorism ? 4875: 3786:WP:ASSUMEGOODFAITH 3759:For the nominator 3136:Abdelbaki Es Satty 3067:The New York Times 2658:Cited by multiple 1291:TonyaJaneMelbourne 1257:TonyaJaneMelbourne 679: 400:. Barcelona is in 216:Spanish newspapers 170:Bar or restaurant? 96:Protect this page? 5351:Additional victim 5248: 5235:comment added by 5085:original research 4873: 4848:into this article 4357: 4172:WP:LOCALCONSENSUS 3867:at all as such. 3763:'s discussion at 3093:Anyone know what 1974:make a fuss about 1876: 1864:comment added by 1523: 1507:comment added by 1242:Buran Biggest Fan 1128:WP:INDISCRIMINATE 839: 823:comment added by 508: 496:comment added by 321:Buran Biggest Fan 298:Some references. 294: 280:Buran Biggest Fan 278:comment added by 192: 180:comment added by 72: 71: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 5408: 5017:TheGracefulSlick 4932:- as per above. 4800:Changing the map 4749: 4744: 4728: 4723: 4708: 4704: 4703: 4627: 4622: 4592: 4587: 4427: 4422: 4353: 4305: 4247: 4076:. You mentioned 4067: 4013: 4011: 4010: 3911: 3809: 3678: 3633: 3588:TheGracefulSlick 3584: 3540:TheGracefulSlick 3473: 3471: 3470: 3396: 3322:#List of victims 3304: 3300: 3081: 3080: 3075: 3073: 3058: 3052: 3047: 3041: 3036: 3030: 3025: 2911:Acetone Peroxide 2834:TheGracefulSlick 2801:TheGracefulSlick 2755:TheGracefulSlick 2747: 2613:TheGracefulSlick 2551:TheGracefulSlick 2137: 2135: 2134: 2087: 2082: 2057:Indeed it does. 1995: 1993: 1992: 1979:Dabiq (magazine) 1782: 1775: 1746: 1739: 1703: 1700: 1675: 1668: 1641: 1634: 1599: 1592: 1562:Censoring quotes 1426: 1421: 1236:official sources 1230:ISIL Involvement 449: 383: 379: 375: 116:MechanoidWarhead 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 5416: 5415: 5411: 5410: 5409: 5407: 5406: 5405: 5353: 5077: 5072: 5071: 4991:Octoberwoodland 4950:strongly oppose 4934:Octoberwoodland 4915:Octoberwoodland 4896:Octoberwoodland 4878: 4869: 4868: 4867: 4857:Octoberwoodland 4850: 4802: 4745: 4740: 4724: 4719: 4701: 4699: 4685: 4623: 4618: 4588: 4583: 4423: 4418: 4299: 4241: 4061: 4030: 4008: 4006: 4004: 3925: 3920: 3907: 3886:Octoberwoodland 3806:ScratchMarshall 3803: 3791:ScratchMarshall 3761:ScratchMarshall 3675:ScratchMarshall 3672: 3657:ScratchMarshall 3630:ScratchMarshall 3627: 3581:ScratchMarshall 3578: 3558:ScratchMarshall 3521:ScratchMarshall 3488:ScratchMarshall 3468: 3466: 3464: 3440:ScratchMarshall 3410:, snow oppose. 3392: 3382: 3302: 3298: 3291:the mobile view 3279: 3240: 3140: 3091: 3086: 3085: 3084: 3071: 3069: 3060: 3059: 3055: 3048: 3044: 3037: 3033: 3026: 3022: 2895:ScratchMarshall 2884: 2777: 2741: 2629:(dead or alive) 2605: 2494: 2311: 2156: 2154:List of victims 2132: 2130: 2128: 2083: 2078: 1990: 1988: 1986: 1966: 1948:MonsterHunter32 1936: 1917: 1816: 1771: 1769: 1735: 1733: 1708: 1707: 1706: 1701: 1697: 1664: 1662: 1630: 1628: 1588: 1586: 1564: 1431: 1430: 1429: 1422: 1418: 1319: 1232: 1134:, for example. 945:, not sixteen. 845: 812: 719:MonsterHunter32 703: 671: 617: 547: 485: 443: 437: 394: 381: 377: 373: 350: 315: 213: 172: 147: 98: 77: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5414: 5412: 5404: 5403: 5402: 5401: 5352: 5349: 5348: 5347: 5346: 5345: 5344: 5343: 5342: 5341: 5273: 5272: 5271: 5270: 5269: 5268: 5222: 5221: 5220: 5219: 5218: 5217: 5216: 5215: 5214: 5213: 5212: 5211: 5210: 5209: 5208: 5207: 5206: 5205: 5204: 5203: 5202: 5201: 5200: 5199: 5198: 5197: 5196: 5195: 5194: 5193: 5192: 5191: 5190: 5189: 5188: 5187: 5186: 5185: 5130: 5129: 5113: 5112: 5076: 5073: 5065: 5064: 5063: 5053:Knowledgekid87 5045: 5044: 5028: 5027: 4988: 4987: 4969: 4968: 4945: 4944: 4926: 4925: 4879: 4870: 4854: 4853: 4852: 4851: 4849: 4842: 4841: 4840: 4801: 4798: 4797: 4796: 4775: 4755: 4754: 4735: 4734: 4695: 4694: 4693: 4692: 4691: 4690: 4686: 4681: 4652: 4651: 4650: 4649: 4648: 4647: 4646: 4645: 4644: 4643: 4642: 4641: 4604: 4603: 4602: 4601: 4600: 4599: 4598: 4597: 4565: 4564: 4563: 4562: 4561: 4560: 4559: 4558: 4533: 4532: 4531: 4530: 4529: 4528: 4505: 4504: 4503: 4502: 4481: 4480: 4453: 4452: 4433: 4432: 4412: 4411: 4410: 4409: 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3218: 3192: 3191: 3156: 3155: 3148: 3139: 3133: 3132: 3131: 3090: 3087: 3083: 3082: 3053: 3042: 3031: 3019: 3018: 3014: 3013: 3012: 2969:Not a case of 2967: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2963: 2962: 2883: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2874: 2852: 2851: 2850: 2849: 2828: 2827: 2826: 2825: 2776: 2775:French injured 2773: 2772: 2771: 2770: 2769: 2768: 2767: 2766: 2765: 2732: 2731: 2730: 2729: 2728: 2727: 2703: 2702: 2701: 2700: 2683: 2677: 2671: 2669: 2663: 2657: 2651: 2650: 2634: 2633: 2604: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2598: 2597: 2596: 2595: 2594: 2593: 2592: 2591: 2590: 2589: 2528: 2527: 2526: 2525: 2493: 2490: 2489: 2488: 2487: 2486: 2485: 2484: 2483: 2482: 2481: 2480: 2433: 2432: 2431: 2430: 2429: 2428: 2408: 2407: 2406: 2405: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2381: 2371: 2370: 2356: 2353: 2351: 2349: 2347: 2342: 2310: 2307: 2292: 2291: 2255: 2254: 2240: 2239: 2238: 2237: 2223: 2208: 2194: 2193: 2155: 2152: 2151: 2150: 2149: 2148: 2147: 2146: 2145: 2144: 2055: 2036: 2035: 2018: 2017: 1965: 1959: 1935: 1932: 1916: 1913: 1912: 1911: 1910: 1909: 1908: 1907: 1906: 1905: 1902:the Daily Mail 1877: 1852: 1851: 1836: 1835: 1815: 1812: 1811: 1810: 1809: 1808: 1807: 1806: 1805: 1804: 1803: 1802: 1705: 1704: 1694: 1693: 1689: 1688: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1684: 1683: 1682: 1681: 1680: 1679: 1604: 1603: 1568:User:Abductive 1563: 1560: 1559: 1558: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1524: 1468: 1467: 1466: 1465: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1428: 1427: 1415: 1414: 1410: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1395: 1377: 1376: 1358: 1357: 1349: 1348: 1318: 1315: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1283: 1282: 1281: 1280: 1231: 1228: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1224: 1223: 1222: 1208: 1207: 1206: 1120: 1119: 1118: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1109: 1108: 1107: 1106: 1105: 1073: 1072: 1071: 1045: 1044: 1043: 1000: 999: 998: 997: 996: 995: 994: 993: 992: 991: 990: 989: 966: 965: 964: 963: 962: 961: 960: 959: 958: 957: 956: 955: 943:click one link 892: 891: 890: 889: 844: 841: 811: 808: 807: 806: 805: 804: 803: 802: 801: 800: 799: 798: 702: 699: 670: 667: 666: 665: 647: 616: 613: 612: 611: 610: 609: 608: 607: 574: 546: 543: 542: 541: 540: 539: 498:108.210.202.88 484: 481: 480: 479: 478: 477: 436: 433: 432: 431: 398:Canary Islands 393: 392:Canary Islands 390: 389: 388: 349: 346: 345: 344: 314: 313:Change targets 311: 296: 295: 266: 265: 261: 260: 255: 249: 248: 244: 243: 235: 227: 218: 217: 212: 209: 182:82.132.218.128 171: 168: 146: 143: 142: 141: 97: 94: 76: 73: 70: 69: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 5413: 5400: 5396: 5392: 5388: 5387: 5386: 5382: 5378: 5374: 5373: 5372: 5371: 5367: 5363: 5358: 5350: 5340: 5337: 5334: 5330: 5329: 5328: 5324: 5320: 5315: 5314: 5313: 5310: 5307: 5303: 5302: 5301: 5297: 5293: 5289: 5288: 5287: 5286: 5282: 5278: 5267: 5263: 5259: 5255: 5252: 5251: 5250: 5249: 5246: 5242: 5238: 5234: 5228: 5224: 5223: 5184: 5180: 5176: 5172: 5168: 5167: 5166: 5165: 5164: 5163: 5162: 5161: 5160: 5159: 5158: 5157: 5156: 5155: 5154: 5153: 5152: 5151: 5150: 5149: 5148: 5147: 5146: 5145: 5144: 5143: 5142: 5141: 5140: 5139: 5138: 5137: 5136: 5135: 5134: 5133: 5132: 5131: 5128: 5124: 5120: 5115: 5114: 5109: 5108: 5107: 5106: 5102: 5098: 5093: 5091: 5086: 5082: 5074: 5069: 5062: 5058: 5054: 5050: 5047: 5046: 5043: 5040: 5037: 5033: 5030: 5029: 5026: 5022: 5018: 5014: 5011: 5010: 5009: 5008: 5004: 5000: 4996: 4992: 4986: 4982: 4978: 4974: 4971: 4970: 4967: 4963: 4959: 4955: 4951: 4947: 4946: 4943: 4939: 4935: 4931: 4928: 4927: 4924: 4920: 4916: 4912: 4908: 4907: 4906: 4905: 4901: 4897: 4892: 4888: 4884: 4877: 4866: 4862: 4858: 4847: 4843: 4839: 4835: 4831: 4827: 4823: 4820:I agree that 4819: 4818: 4817: 4816: 4812: 4808: 4799: 4795: 4791: 4787: 4783: 4779: 4776: 4774: 4773: 4769: 4765: 4761: 4757: 4756: 4753: 4750: 4748: 4743: 4737: 4736: 4733: 4732: 4729: 4727: 4722: 4716: 4713:, once moved 4712: 4707: 4697: 4696: 4689: 4684: 4680: 4678: 4674: 4670: 4666: 4662: 4661:NY Daily News 4658: 4657: 4656: 4655: 4654: 4653: 4640: 4636: 4632: 4628: 4626: 4621: 4616: 4615: 4614: 4613: 4612: 4611: 4610: 4609: 4608: 4607: 4606: 4605: 4596: 4593: 4591: 4586: 4580: 4576: 4573: 4572: 4571: 4570: 4569: 4568: 4567: 4566: 4557: 4553: 4549: 4545: 4541: 4540: 4539: 4538: 4537: 4536: 4535: 4534: 4527: 4523: 4519: 4514: 4511: 4510: 4509: 4508: 4507: 4506: 4501: 4497: 4493: 4489: 4485: 4484: 4483: 4482: 4479: 4475: 4471: 4467: 4462: 4458: 4455: 4454: 4451: 4447: 4443: 4439: 4436:I agree that 4435: 4434: 4431: 4428: 4426: 4421: 4414: 4413: 4398: 4394: 4390: 4386: 4385: 4384: 4383: 4382: 4381: 4380: 4379: 4378: 4377: 4376: 4375: 4374: 4373: 4356: 4351: 4346: 4345: 4344: 4343: 4342: 4341: 4340: 4339: 4338: 4337: 4336: 4335: 4334: 4333: 4317: 4313: 4311: 4310:WP:COMMONNAME 4303: 4298: 4297: 4296: 4295: 4294: 4293: 4292: 4291: 4290: 4289: 4288: 4287: 4286: 4285: 4272: 4268: 4264: 4260: 4256: 4251: 4250:WP:COMMONNAME 4245: 4240: 4239: 4238: 4237: 4236: 4235: 4234: 4233: 4232: 4231: 4230: 4229: 4218: 4214: 4210: 4206: 4202: 4201:WP:COMMONNAME 4198: 4194: 4190: 4187: 4186: 4185: 4181: 4177: 4173: 4169: 4165: 4161: 4160: 4159: 4158: 4157: 4156: 4155: 4154: 4147: 4143: 4139: 4134: 4131: 4130: 4129: 4128: 4127: 4126: 4121: 4117: 4113: 4109: 4105: 4104: 4103: 4102: 4099: 4095: 4091: 4087: 4083: 4079: 4075: 4071: 4065: 4060: 4059: 4058: 4057: 4053: 4049: 4044: 4043: 4039: 4035: 4027: 4019: 4016: 4015: 4014: 3999: 3995: 3991: 3987: 3986: 3985: 3984: 3983: 3982: 3977: 3973: 3969: 3964: 3963: 3962: 3961: 3958: 3954: 3950: 3946: 3941: 3940: 3939: 3938: 3934: 3930: 3922: 3917: 3915: 3910: 3905: 3900: 3899: 3895: 3891: 3887: 3883: 3880: 3878: 3874: 3870: 3866: 3862: 3858: 3854: 3851: 3850: 3839: 3835: 3831: 3827: 3826: 3825: 3821: 3817: 3813: 3807: 3802: 3801: 3800: 3796: 3792: 3787: 3784: 3783: 3782: 3778: 3774: 3770: 3766: 3762: 3758: 3757: 3756: 3755: 3752: 3748: 3744: 3740: 3736: 3732: 3729: 3727: 3724: 3721: 3717: 3714: 3712: 3708: 3704: 3700: 3697: 3696: 3691: 3687: 3683: 3676: 3671: 3670: 3669: 3668: 3667: 3666: 3662: 3658: 3653: 3646: 3642: 3638: 3631: 3625: 3622: 3620: 3616: 3612: 3608: 3605: 3604: 3597: 3593: 3589: 3582: 3577: 3576: 3575: 3574: 3573: 3572: 3567: 3563: 3559: 3555: 3551: 3550: 3549: 3545: 3541: 3537: 3534: 3530: 3526: 3522: 3518: 3517: 3516: 3512: 3508: 3504: 3501: 3497: 3493: 3489: 3485: 3481: 3480: 3479: 3476: 3475: 3474: 3459: 3455: 3452: 3451: 3450: 3449: 3445: 3441: 3436: 3432: 3428: 3422: 3421: 3417: 3413: 3409: 3402: 3400: 3395: 3390: 3385: 3384: 3379: 3371: 3367: 3363: 3359: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3355: 3354: 3349: 3345: 3341: 3337: 3336: 3335: 3331: 3327: 3323: 3319: 3318: 3317: 3316: 3312: 3308: 3296: 3292: 3288: 3284: 3276: 3272: 3268: 3264: 3261: 3257: 3256: 3255: 3254: 3250: 3246: 3237: 3233: 3229: 3225: 3221: 3220: 3217: 3216: 3212: 3208: 3204: 3198: 3197: 3195: 3194: 3190: 3189: 3185: 3181: 3176: 3175: 3174: 3173: 3169: 3165: 3161: 3158:Both, today, 3153: 3149: 3146: 3142: 3141: 3137: 3134: 3130: 3126: 3122: 3118: 3114: 3113: 3112: 3111: 3107: 3103: 3100: 3096: 3088: 3079: 3068: 3064: 3057: 3054: 3051: 3046: 3043: 3040: 3035: 3032: 3029: 3024: 3021: 3017: 3011: 3007: 3003: 2999: 2995: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2984: 2980: 2976: 2973:here, as the 2972: 2961: 2957: 2953: 2949: 2944: 2943: 2942: 2938: 2934: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2924: 2920: 2916: 2912: 2907: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2900: 2896: 2891: 2889: 2881: 2873: 2869: 2865: 2861: 2858: 2857: 2856: 2855: 2854: 2853: 2848: 2844: 2840: 2835: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2829: 2824: 2820: 2816: 2815:83.60.242.139 2812: 2811: 2810: 2806: 2802: 2797: 2794: 2793: 2792: 2791: 2787: 2783: 2774: 2764: 2760: 2756: 2751: 2745: 2740: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2726: 2722: 2718: 2714: 2709: 2708: 2707: 2706: 2705: 2704: 2699: 2695: 2691: 2687: 2681: 2675: 2667: 2661: 2655: 2654: 2653: 2652: 2649: 2645: 2641: 2636: 2635: 2630: 2625: 2624: 2623: 2622: 2618: 2614: 2610: 2602: 2588: 2584: 2580: 2576: 2575: 2574: 2570: 2566: 2562: 2561: 2560: 2556: 2552: 2548: 2547: 2546: 2542: 2538: 2534: 2533: 2532: 2531: 2530: 2529: 2524: 2520: 2516: 2512: 2511: 2510: 2509: 2508: 2507: 2503: 2499: 2491: 2479: 2475: 2471: 2467: 2463: 2459: 2458: 2457: 2453: 2449: 2445: 2441: 2440: 2439: 2438: 2437: 2436: 2435: 2434: 2427: 2423: 2419: 2414: 2413: 2412: 2411: 2410: 2409: 2404: 2400: 2396: 2392: 2388: 2387: 2386: 2385: 2379: 2375: 2374: 2373: 2372: 2369: 2365: 2361: 2345: 2344: 2343: 2340: 2339: 2335: 2331: 2325: 2323: 2319: 2315: 2308: 2306: 2305: 2301: 2297: 2290: 2287: 2284: 2280: 2276: 2271: 2270: 2269: 2268: 2264: 2260: 2259:HampsteadLord 2253: 2250: 2247: 2242: 2241: 2236: 2232: 2228: 2224: 2222: 2218: 2214: 2209: 2207: 2203: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2192: 2188: 2184: 2180: 2175: 2174: 2173: 2172: 2168: 2164: 2163:HampsteadLord 2160: 2153: 2143: 2140: 2139: 2138: 2123: 2119: 2115: 2114: 2113: 2110: 2107: 2103: 2102: 2097: 2093: 2092: 2091: 2088: 2086: 2081: 2075: 2071: 2070: 2069: 2066: 2063: 2060: 2056: 2054: 2051: 2048: 2044: 2043: 2038: 2037: 2034: 2031: 2028: 2024: 2020: 2019: 2016: 2012: 2008: 2004: 2003: 2002: 2001: 1998: 1997: 1996: 1981: 1980: 1975: 1971: 1963: 1960: 1958: 1957: 1953: 1949: 1945: 1941: 1933: 1931: 1930: 1926: 1922: 1914: 1903: 1899: 1895: 1894: 1893: 1889: 1885: 1881: 1880: 1878: 1875: 1871: 1867: 1866:79.201.14.185 1863: 1856: 1855: 1854: 1853: 1850: 1846: 1842: 1838: 1837: 1834: 1830: 1826: 1822: 1821: 1820: 1813: 1801: 1798: 1795: 1791: 1787: 1786: 1785: 1780: 1776: 1774: 1767: 1766: 1765: 1762: 1759: 1756: 1751: 1750: 1749: 1744: 1740: 1738: 1731: 1730: 1729: 1726: 1723: 1719: 1714: 1710: 1709: 1699: 1696: 1692: 1678: 1673: 1669: 1667: 1660: 1659: 1658: 1654: 1650: 1646: 1645: 1644: 1639: 1635: 1633: 1626: 1622: 1621: 1620: 1616: 1612: 1608: 1607: 1606: 1605: 1602: 1597: 1593: 1591: 1584: 1583: 1582: 1581: 1577: 1573: 1569: 1561: 1557: 1554: 1551: 1547: 1543: 1539: 1535: 1531: 1530: 1522: 1518: 1514: 1510: 1506: 1499: 1496: 1495: 1494: 1490: 1486: 1482: 1477: 1472: 1471: 1470: 1469: 1464: 1460: 1456: 1451: 1447: 1446: 1445: 1444: 1438: 1435: 1434: 1433: 1432: 1425: 1420: 1417: 1413: 1409: 1407: 1403: 1394: 1390: 1386: 1381: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1375: 1371: 1367: 1363: 1360: 1359: 1355: 1351: 1350: 1346: 1342: 1339: 1336: 1335: 1334: 1333: 1329: 1325: 1316: 1308: 1304: 1300: 1296: 1295:as this shows 1292: 1289: 1288: 1287: 1286: 1285: 1284: 1279: 1276: 1273: 1268: 1267: 1266: 1262: 1258: 1254: 1253: 1252: 1251: 1247: 1243: 1239: 1237: 1234:According to 1229: 1221: 1217: 1213: 1209: 1205: 1201: 1197: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1186: 1182: 1178: 1177: 1176: 1172: 1168: 1163: 1162: 1161: 1157: 1153: 1148: 1147: 1146: 1145: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1129: 1125: 1104: 1101: 1098: 1094: 1089: 1088: 1087: 1083: 1079: 1076:sub-articles. 1074: 1070: 1067: 1064: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1054: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1039: 1036: 1032: 1028: 1027: 1026: 1022: 1018: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1009: 1008: 1007: 1006: 1005: 1004: 1003: 1002: 1001: 988: 985: 982: 978: 977: 976: 975: 974: 973: 972: 971: 970: 969: 968: 967: 954: 951: 948: 944: 939: 938: 937: 933: 929: 924: 923: 922: 919: 916: 912: 911: 910: 906: 902: 898: 897: 896: 895: 894: 893: 888: 884: 880: 876: 875: 874: 870: 866: 862: 861: 860: 859: 855: 851: 842: 840: 838: 834: 830: 826: 822: 817: 809: 797: 794: 791: 787: 786: 785: 781: 777: 772: 771: 770: 766: 762: 761:83.41.191.169 757: 756: 755: 751: 747: 743: 742: 741: 738: 735: 731: 730: 729: 728: 724: 720: 716: 712: 708: 700: 698: 697: 693: 689: 688:83.41.191.169 685: 682: 675: 668: 664: 660: 656: 652: 648: 646: 642: 638: 633: 632: 631: 630: 626: 622: 614: 606: 603: 600: 596: 592: 591: 589: 588: 587: 583: 579: 575: 573: 570: 567: 563: 562: 561: 560: 556: 552: 544: 538: 534: 530: 525: 524: 523: 519: 515: 511: 510: 509: 507: 503: 499: 495: 490: 482: 476: 472: 468: 464: 463: 462: 458: 454: 447: 442: 441: 440: 434: 430: 426: 422: 418: 417: 416: 415: 411: 407: 403: 399: 391: 387: 384: 376: 370: 369: 368: 367: 363: 359: 354: 347: 343: 340: 337: 333: 332: 331: 330: 326: 322: 318: 312: 310: 309: 305: 301: 293: 289: 285: 281: 277: 272: 268: 267: 263: 262: 259: 256: 254: 251: 250: 246: 245: 242: 239: 236: 234: 231: 228: 226: 223: 220: 219: 215: 214: 210: 208: 207: 203: 199: 193: 191: 187: 183: 179: 169: 167: 166: 163: 159: 155: 152: 151:WP:COMMONNAME 144: 140: 136: 132: 128: 127: 126: 125: 121: 117: 112: 111: 107: 103: 95: 93: 92: 88: 84: 83:Peace peddler 81: 74: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 5356: 5354: 5333:InedibleHulk 5306:InedibleHulk 5274: 5253: 5231:— Preceding 5171:(not by me!) 5170: 5094: 5078: 5067: 5048: 5036:InedibleHulk 5031: 5012: 4989: 4972: 4949: 4929: 4880: 4871: 4803: 4777: 4759: 4758: 4746: 4741: 4725: 4720: 4715:No such user 4705: 4698: 4624: 4619: 4589: 4584: 4543: 4513:No such user 4487: 4465: 4461:No such user 4457:Support move 4456: 4437: 4424: 4419: 4354: 4349: 4315: 4307: 4302:No such user 4263:No such user 4204: 4189:No such user 4176:No such user 4133:No such user 4112:No such user 4090:No such user 4045: 4031: 4002: 4001: 3926: 3908: 3901: 3881: 3860: 3856: 3852: 3812:Power~enwiki 3743:Power~enwiki 3730: 3720:InedibleHulk 3715: 3698: 3649: 3623: 3606: 3535: 3502: 3462: 3461: 3457: 3453: 3424: 3412:No such user 3407: 3405: 3393: 3386: 3295:MOS:COLLAPSE 3280: 3259: 3241: 3202: 3199: 3196: 3193: 3177: 3157: 3151: 3144: 3098: 3092: 3077: 3070:. Retrieved 3066: 3056: 3045: 3034: 3023: 3015: 2997: 2993: 2974: 2968: 2892: 2885: 2778: 2749: 2712: 2673: 2628: 2608: 2606: 2603:Organization 2495: 2465: 2390: 2377: 2341: 2326: 2321: 2317: 2312: 2293: 2283:InedibleHulk 2278: 2274: 2256: 2246:InedibleHulk 2157: 2126: 2125: 2117: 2106:InedibleHulk 2099: 2084: 2079: 2074:InedibleHulk 2062:InedibleHulk 2047:InedibleHulk 2040: 2027:InedibleHulk 2022: 2007:86.153.24.78 1984: 1983: 1977: 1969: 1967: 1961: 1937: 1918: 1898:the Guardian 1860:— Preceding 1817: 1794:InedibleHulk 1772: 1758:InedibleHulk 1736: 1722:InedibleHulk 1717: 1712: 1698: 1690: 1665: 1631: 1589: 1565: 1550:InedibleHulk 1503:— Preceding 1462: 1453: 1419: 1411: 1399: 1353: 1344: 1320: 1272:InedibleHulk 1240: 1233: 1121: 1097:InedibleHulk 1092: 1063:InedibleHulk 1035:InedibleHulk 1030: 981:InedibleHulk 947:InedibleHulk 915:InedibleHulk 846: 819:— Preceding 813: 790:InedibleHulk 734:InedibleHulk 704: 686: 683: 680: 655:79.70.163.54 618: 599:InedibleHulk 594: 566:InedibleHulk 548: 492:— Preceding 486: 438: 395: 355: 351: 336:InedibleHulk 319: 316: 297: 274:— Preceding 238:Europa Press 198:Naaman Brown 194: 176:— Preceding 173: 148: 131:86.153.24.78 113: 99: 78: 60: 43: 37: 4255:WP:NCEVENTS 3994:WP:COATRACK 3914:move review 3865:WP:BLPCRIME 3731:Snow oppose 3703:Jim Michael 3682:HeinzMaster 3652:WP:BLPCRIME 3637:HeinzMaster 3435:WP:BLPCRIME 3399:move review 3150:. 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