Talk:2023 Prague shootings

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person he will never be tried or convicted. But he was objectively and undoubtedly the shooter, even if his shooting was not formally a crime. If perhaps someone relevant would express doubt about perpetrator's identity, it is possible to add his POV to the article. If someone wants to hide verifiable and obvious facts, he/she should look for a genre other than encyclopedias. Another thing is that nothing verifiable about the shooter's motivation is known yet. Telegram account with his name was probably a fake. However, real verifiable biographical facts about the perpetrator are relevant, even if we do not yet know their connection to the act. --

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remembered. Violence is an easy way to ascertain a paragraph in the history books, recording it? Even better. Approximately 132 American commit suicide a day. Have you heard of them? Each 132 of them? Likely not. Their stories are not each individually spread in digitized formats for people to laugh or be shocked at. The names of these people will only circulate amongst those who knew them, not the internet and by proxy, culture at large.

917: 550: 529: 1909:. I would like to omit the name altogether in order to not draw undue publicity to the perpetrator, but perhaps the cat is already out of the bag on that one given all the mentions in the media used here. If there is consensus to include the name (which seems likely), then I think it should be in the article prose and not in the infobox or lead. Oppose including any contested information until this RfC has completed per 831: 261: 1567:. If readers really want to find the shooter's name, they will, so there's no point censoring it, but not featuring it as prominently is wise. A related question is what to call the shooter - "the gunman", "the shooter", "the perpetrator", or use his name? I prefer "shooter" or "gunman", not "perpetrator", since the latter seems very dry, removed, and clinical, but that is a very subjective view. For comparison, 639: 618: 728: 233: 707: 203: 1483:

up. While much of the population was struck with horror, terror, and concerns for social issues, those who empathized with the narrative of the shooters became increasingly inspired. Shooters who want to recreate the infamy Eric and Dylan received as ‘killing their bullies’ and ‘becoming famous’ for their clothes that are seen so prolifically in those ‘aesthetic’ fuzzy VHS tapes.

278: 1654:. Either we are censored or we are not. The perpetrator is the cause for the event, and so a substantive, well written Knowledge article will include relevant information to the shooting, in balance with the wider societal effects and consequences. Censoring his name when he is the reason the attack happened is useless, because the page is about something he did. 336: 309: 2420:: For the same reasons as others have stated. This article provides no information that could not be written in the article on the shootings. This page is too short and lacks too many references to justify its existence. This person is known only for this one event and has had no lasting impact on any other occurrence as of yet ( 2219:: Most of the information in the David Kozák article is trivial and non-important for this article, although relevant in that article. This will be even more true as information about the perpetrator and his life trickles in into the separate article. Also, it seems to be in line with practice to keep separate articles, see e.g. 1359:

You will notice that I am not using the killer’s name and I will try not to do that. Part of what motivates sick people to do this kind of thing is some twisted notion of fame or glory, and I don’t want to be part of that for the sake of the victims and their families, and so that other twisted minds

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Given that the victims of the double homicide are counted in the victim count, it would be appropriate to place information about the crime at the beginning of the page and the date of the crime in the infobox and not leave it as something secondary in the "events" tab, because it could be confused.

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After forwarding his social media accounts, photos of his weapons, and a link to his Facebook live - he carried out the massacre. 4,000 times it was viewed before being removed. While 4,000 sounds measly in the scope of the internet, the white supremacy movement thrives on propaganda and promises of

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The shooter's identity is fairly certain. No one seriously doubts it, many people know the shooter in that school. It's pretty obvious what happened without a doubt. Academically, one can hypothesize that this mass shooting was not a crime and that the perpetrator is not guilty because as a deceased

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no longer applies. The "don't name" camp cited a belief, supported by studies, that not naming a crime perpetrator can help prevent a contagion effect. That may well be the case, however, Knowledge aspires to be an encyclopedia, not the DARE Van. It is neither a guideline nor policy for this project

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We have no evidence that shifting the man's name slightly down the page will make things any better. Making things less informative and extremely awkwardly phrased for no appreciable benefit for no reason other than to pat ourselves on the back and say we did something about a worldwide crisis like

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Whilst it is easy to claim adding a name makes no difference, I do agree with Schischare as these events are most contagious right after it occurred. I mean, we’re here right now, no? I don’t really have a definitive answer on what to do, but I think that we could at least not swarthe the page with

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After the initial shooting, people who saw this ‘movie’ unfold were eager to eat up sequels. Each surge of information and the subsequent exploration of the shooters journals, recorded video tapes, security camera footage - even their year-book photos in which they posed with finger-guns were eaten

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To PARAKANYAA, I find that your primary concerns about reporting a mass killing that took 14 lives, and traumatized a countless amount of individuals is that it 'pains you to write something awkward', is rather confusing to me. These events are not fictional, and do require nuance when implementing

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The shooter ( which I will prevent name dropping due to the situation of this event ) had a prolific online presence and digital footprint on 4chan, alongside other corresponding digital forums if I’m correct. He was radicalized and close to the ‘degenerate’ comrades he shared his mutual theory of

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As the events unfolded, the incident was documented across live television as it occurred. The American population was struck with terror as they watched the boy in the window hang out from the Columbine campus, mystified and horrified by the ‘Trench coat mafia’ as misinformed details reached the

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a perpetrator's name, but there's also no need to slather the article with it -- it should be mentioned in a section about who the perpetrator was. It shouldn't be there, and also in the lead sentence, and also in two separate lead paragraphs, and also in two separate infoboxes, and also in three

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Recently a contagion effect, similar to a “copycat” effect, has been suggested in mass shootings. This effect suggests that behaviors can be “contagious” and spread across a population. In the example of mass shootings, a contagion effect would be said to exist if a single mass shooting incident

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After establishing this background, let’s understand that providing a name, ‘aesthetic’, and message behind a shooter provides an identity with future offenders to identify with. It happened with Columbine, and it happened with Christchurch. It provides a Saint for new ‘prophets’ to rally their

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I won’t waste too much time giving background on Breivik, as there remains an entire Knowledge article dedicated to him. Breivik had a substantially high kill count compared to the Christchurch Shooter, yet remains much less revered. While the contagious affect among his admirers was immensely

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Giving any "fame" to the killer is in my opinion deeply immoral and hurtful to many people. I believe that there should be a wikipedia-wide discussion about this. In the meantime, we should just keep in mind what damage naming him is causing, no matter whether it technically doesn't break the

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By strict head-counting, eight (8) editors supported naming the perpetrator, two (2) opposed naming the perpetrator, four (4) support some form of limited naming of the perpetrator (e.g. in the body but not the lead or by assigning a numerical maximal), and one editor expressed an inscrutable

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A man who was previously unknown gained prolific status for his suicide on a Facebook livestream. ( sound familiar? ) I’ve seen it, most people on the internet I’ve spoke to have seen it, and he even has a Knowledge article dedicated to his suicide. People want recognition. People want to be

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Honestly a bit depressed by this discussion - aside Lenka Hlávková who has an article, all other known victims of this attack - namely professor Jan Dlask, Lucie Špindlerová ("proofreader"), Klára Holcová ("shot putter") and Aneta Richterová ("volunteer firefighter") have been reduced to an

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when the information is widely available in reliable sources. As for confirmation of the Prague shooter's name, David Kozák seems correct with no real possibility of turning out to be wrong at a later date. Maybe he did want notoriety, but hiding his name in a pointy way isn't going to

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At the very least, the birth date should be sourced, and if the editor adding it is interested in following the same format a other articles, it should follow the specific manner of presentation (XX month XXXX - XX month XXXX). Simply adding it with no source is not acceptable.

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Seeing it, an entirely different one. It gives a face, a look, an image to replicate. With Breivik, there just isn’t much in the way of his publicity as Christchurch. No decked out guns with whites supremacist dog whistles, no sonnenrad, no collective of comrades and ‘frocking

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There's no reason not to, policy wise, except people don't like it. He's a deceased legal adult. If we want to remove all of the names from all the articles of all crime perpetrators living or dead then that's a discussion for another day but there really is no reason except

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reveled in at the time of his massacre, his lack of a digital footprint and notoriety made his influence vastly wane. He receives occasional resurgences of popularity when new incidents happen, but compared to the Christchurch killing his influence is mostly not comparable.

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or identity of the perpetrator having much to do with it, more that covering mass shootings at all will make some people decide to do them, whether attention is on the perpetrator or not. A relatively small number of shootings are done primarily for attention or

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the killer has much of an impact on the copycat effect, more that it happening at all will increase the rate. Previous attempts to lessen the reporting of shooter's names (as has been done in recent years) have not seemed to work as the rate is higher than ever

1952:, in the first paragraph and wherever needed and suitable. For the historical record and full proper information without any kind of soft hiding. He is not living matters of privacy and legal prejudicing don't apply so there is no good reason to not have it. 1092:

The article has gone back and forth on naming the perpetrator; he's dead, and his name has been reported by some media sources. Should we name him? Should he be totally anonymized, abbreviated, or fully named? Relevant policy here could be referenced at

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Article now has David Kozák referred to as "the perpetrator/gunman/shooter" leading to such nonsense as the police looking for "the gunman" of a shooting that hadn't happened yet. His name is reported in reliable sources so should be included here.

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Also whenever people try to censor their names in practice it hasn't seemed to help with the copycat situation. The Christchurch shooting is the most copycatted shooting since Columbine even though most news outlets refused to say his name.

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Columbine remains well known ( and at the time was well-known ) due to the extent of information and media which remains of the shooters. There are other duo-shooter incidents that have occurred which many people barely know the name

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occupation or pastime, and Magdalena Křístková isn't mentioned at all, but boy are there some strong opinions going around that the murderer's name must be plastered all over the article. Lovely. Anyway I would agree with

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Two weeks after the Parkland school shooting on Valentine’s Day in 2018, 638 copycat threats targeted schools nationwide. These threats are often jokes or hoaxes that spread through social media, but they can still be

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guidelines. Side note - there are other instances, where some names are withheld from wikipedia for ethical reasons even though they are publicly known. Such as the former names of many trans people, living or dead.

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These typically run for a month, though that's not a hard and fast rule. This has run for a week less than that, but there has only been one !vote in the last eight days and a request for closure has been logged at

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as its stay consistent with other articles like this, the perpetrator is no longer alive so we don’t need to worry about using words like suspect or accused. Plus I highly doubt they’ll put a deceased person on

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There's some concern vis a vis copycats but there's also that over suicide and all crimes generally. It mostly applies to the news as well, and what research does exist is not very strongly favored towards the

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For those who believe that Columbine or Christchurch are merely products of ‘right place, right time’, and not the documentation of the identity of the killers, I want to take a look at the suicide of Ronnie

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People here should also just have more empathy and understanding of the events as a whole before making comments about not caring about societal implications and how using different language is a ‘pain.’

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brought up, especially regarding the contagion of a shooter and the period of time after an event, it could be useful to minimize the current information to make it less accessible when it could be most

1827:, although in retrospect, Klara Holcova would probably have had a better chance of inclusion since she already had prior notability. Feel free to include them and let the rest of the community decide. 1767:

True I'll stop. I just think there's a few very common comments that pop up on these kinds of articles over and over and it's a bit frustrating to hash it out over and over and over. Still, my bad.

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While Columbine has more appeal to more antisocial individuals with problems of bullying and isolation, Christchurch appealed to this category and internet white-supremacism which come hand-in-hand.

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Well, I think that the mere fact of the guy's name is a detail of the event just like anything else -- albeit a minor detail, not something that needs to be mentioned over and over and over.

2538: 347:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join 861: 857: 348: 2007:- (Brought here from WP:RFC/A) We have to put personal preference aside and execute according to policy, in this matter the perpetrator is deceased which is covered in WP:BDP policy. 2528: 406: 2367:), although their notability is tied to the mass shootings. Is there any guideline that would make it clear when it is appropriate to create a separate page in cases like these? — 1802:'s compromise solution and just because there isn't a guideline about this kind of thing doesn't mean there couldn't or shouldn't be (something for the RfC closer to consider). – 2608: 2573: 689: 679: 147: 1499:

the ‘great replacement.’ He wanted to elevate his status and do something, likely egged on and inspired by former perpetrators like Anders Breivik, who I will mention later.

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Why is this even a question? Is somebody going to do a mass shooting because they read his name on this article? If that's the case, I'd love to read the research.

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as an example, the perpetrator also killed a person a week before, however this victim is not counted in the information in the infobox or at the top of the page

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There is now evidence that when a mass shooting occurs, there is a temporary increase in the probability of another event within the next 13 days on average.

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is trivial, why even have a separate article? By debating this as a merger, we avoid debating just deleting his article, instead. Also it isn't a

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To summarize, the exposure of an event and the documentation of it from the killer's angle will influence those we are flocking to learn about it.

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to act as a crime prevention initiative. Ergo, for failure to cite any guidelines or policies, the "no" camp's arguments were disregarded.

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I agree with this generally but saying "the perpetrator"/"the shooter" over and over and over again is so, so awkward. Pains me to write.

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In evaluating the strength of arguments on the various sides, the "naming" camp observed that the perpetrator had been widely credited in

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features the shooter's name prominently and refers to him mainly by his last name throughout, which now seems to me like a bad choice.

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press. The event was contagious, simply put. Additionally, carrying much wider implications societally due to a vast range of issues.

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James Comey, director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, followed a similar strategy in describing the 2016 shooting in Orlando:

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

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advises against writing a separate biography about the person if there is an existing article. The detailed biography about

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sainthood through violence. It was recorded, spread across the internet, and cemented as a catastrophic and infamous attack.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Would be better to have it as a separate article, merging those two articles together might make everything too cramped.

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very detailed copying of the perp's suicide note's decription of movement around the forest during the 15 Dec murders

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Perhaps the mention of Ronnie McNutt is a false equivalence, so to weigh this point I want to mention Anders Breivik.

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I posted the RfC because people have been editing it back and forth all day, and a similar RfC was posted for the

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as nom. Given that he is dead, his notability will always be tied to this single event, a even stronger case of

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also applies, and his biography should therefore be included in the article about the crime he committed. -

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is trivia that should not be in the article. I'd like to get some second opinions before deleting though.

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The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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Contagion has been documented across a variety of other behaviors, including airplane hijackings,

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I support a considerable trimming /summarizing the description as non-encyclopedic trivia. --

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The date of the double homicide should be added at the top of the page and in the infobox

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has his biography incorporated into the main article about the shootings. I think

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increased the likelihood of other instances of mass shootings in the near future.

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Proposed deletion of detailed description of perp's movement around the forest

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They're dead, so no pressing BLP concerns, and sources are picking up on it,

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I'll say the same thing here I always say, which is that there's no need to

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Christchurch, draws many parallels to Columbine, yet is distinctly unique.

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subculture. There is an argument that he is notable for other reasons. -

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A news item involving 2023 Prague shootings was featured on Knowledge's

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C. The correlation between notoriety and documented violence.

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You make two comparisons to the most 'copy-catted' shootings.

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When I inserted it, I was not sure whether it would violate

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Include his name in the ibox & body, but not the lead.

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flocks behind, laying the foundations for future violence.

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body paragraphs about the incident, et cetera, et cetera.

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Reading about his killings is one thing to his admirers.

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don’t think that this is a path to fame and recognition.

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There's no policy based reason for doing that except

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5296697/

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and has been well researched in relation to suicide.

739:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 650:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 561:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 1632:. Avoid any further use of his name in the article. 1162:. BLP doesn't even apply here so that's irrelevant. 1055:. They also noted that the perpetrator is dead, so 2151:doesn't justify having it as a separate article.-- 357:Knowledge:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography 2539:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles 2290:adding the perp's picture to this article though. 2191:he will either be merged via this process, or at 360:Template:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography 2263:perpetrator of the Christchurch mosque shootings 1398:You can read a bit more about this effect here: 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 2447:: nothing else is of note about the person. -- 1630:Use name only once in the "perpetrator" section 1404:https://www.center4research.org/copy-cats-kill/ 1427:. Also, what you have said does not show that 2529:Low-importance Serial killer-related articles 174: 8: 2253:If the information in the article about the 1335:This is an encyclopedia, we document facts. 2609:Knowledge articles that use British English 2574:Low-importance Disaster management articles 2393:perpetrator of the 2014 Isla Vista killings 2461: 2147:: Aside from BLP1E, the current length of 1539:his name and information about who he was. 1450:I'm of the stance that the name should be 1128:: This discussion has been linked to from 929:, which has its own spelling conventions ( 794: 701: 612: 523: 418: 303: 1029:Request for comment on naming the shooter 664:Knowledge:WikiProject Disaster management 2261:practice to have separate articles. The 667:Template:WikiProject Disaster management 344:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography 2599:Low-importance Law enforcement articles 1741:, is it really necessary to respond to 796: 703: 614: 525: 420: 305: 275: 2549:Low-importance Czech Republic articles 2524:B-Class Serial killer-related articles 2519:Low-importance Crime-related articles 961:, this should not be changed without 870:Knowledge:WikiProject Law Enforcement 7: 2604:WikiProject Law Enforcement articles 2569:B-Class Disaster management articles 2554:All WikiProject Czech Republic pages 1907:specific murder weapon not mentioned 1083:The following discussion is closed. 873:Template:WikiProject Law Enforcement 733:This article is within the scope of 644:This article is within the scope of 555:This article is within the scope of 486:Knowledge:WikiProject Czech Republic 466:This article is within the scope of 341:This article is within the scope of 1245:Fully named, but only where needed. 489:Template:WikiProject Czech Republic 294:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 2359:), some actually do (for example, 14: 2395:, is due to his influence on the 2045:attack at the Dendermonde daycare 1565:Use full name but not in the lead 2594:B-Class Law enforcement articles 2584:Low-importance Firearms articles 2026:The discussion above is closed. 976: 915: 829: 819: 798: 726: 705: 637: 616: 548: 527: 453: 443: 422: 334: 307: 276: 231: 201: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 2544:B-Class Czech Republic articles 2187:Because he is a likely case of 890:This article has been rated as 777:This article has been rated as 684:This article has been rated as 647:WikiProject Disaster management 595:This article has been rated as 506:This article has been rated as 377:This article has been rated as 320:Serial, mass, and spree killers 2514:B-Class Crime-related articles 2509:Knowledge In the news articles 2494:21:20, 29 September 2024 (UTC) 2480:12:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC) 2456:21:17, 29 September 2024 (UTC) 757:Knowledge:WikiProject Firearms 1: 2589:WikiProject Firearms articles 2564:Low-importance Death articles 2466:I am of the opinion that the 2391:, is a sub-article about the 2057:20:06, 10 February 2024 (UTC) 1969:. Knowledge is not censored. 1962:18:46, 28 December 2023 (UTC) 1945:17:17, 27 December 2023 (UTC) 1927:15:12, 27 December 2023 (UTC) 1896:08:49, 25 December 2023 (UTC) 1874:20:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC) 1856:15:50, 24 December 2023 (UTC) 1837:01:27, 24 December 2023 (UTC) 1819:21:03, 23 December 2023 (UTC) 1793:16:17, 23 December 2023 (UTC) 1777:04:02, 23 December 2023 (UTC) 1763:03:58, 23 December 2023 (UTC) 1726:19:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1701:Christchurch mosque shootings 1690:18:42, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1664:23:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1646:18:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1623:23:08, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1608:23:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1585:15:18, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1554:15:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC) 1442:23:00, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1420:11:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1345:11:23, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1328:04:07, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1308:04:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1284:04:07, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1257:04:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1238:03:41, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1224:03:39, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1197:03:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1172:03:32, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1150:03:29, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 1120:03:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC) 760:Template:WikiProject Firearms 658:and see a list of open tasks. 569:and see a list of open tasks. 480:and see a list of open tasks. 399:This article is supported by 351:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 2021:21:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC) 1076:01:22, 15 January 2024 (UTC) 670:Disaster management articles 402:the Serial Killer task force 354:Crime and Criminal Biography 315:Crime and Criminal Biography 1996:04:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC) 1979:00:57, 2 January 2024 (UTC) 1703:. This is not in line with 996:Charles University shooting 849:WikiProject Law Enforcement 842:This article is within the 575:Knowledge:WikiProject Death 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 2625: 2313:notable only for one event 2085:14:05, 30 April 2024 (UTC) 783:project's importance scale 690:project's importance scale 601:project's importance scale 578:Template:WikiProject Death 512:project's importance scale 469:WikiProject Czech Republic 383:project's importance scale 2579:B-Class Firearms articles 2434:23:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC) 2409:19:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 2376:13:43, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 2346:23:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC) 2325:08:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC) 2300:17:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC) 2279:23:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC) 2140:10:26, 12 July 2024 (UTC) 1950:Full name should be added 889: 814: 776: 721: 683: 632: 594: 543: 505: 438: 398: 376: 329: 302: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 2534:Serial Killer task force 2365:2014 Isla Vista killings 2241:12:47, 8 July 2024 (UTC) 2205:09:50, 8 July 2024 (UTC) 2183:06:27, 8 July 2024 (UTC) 2169:10:13, 7 July 2024 (UTC) 2118:10:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC) 2028:Please do not modify it. 1085:Please do not modify it. 1008:, 14 January 2024, from 876:Law enforcement articles 2104:notability tied to the 1263:2023 Lewiston shootings 994:, 23 December 2023, to 492:Czech Republic articles 2559:B-Class Death articles 2229:Usman Khan (terrorist) 2221:Anders Behring Breivik 1800:User:Cimmerian praetor 1569:Virginia Tech shooting 1365: 395: 363:Crime-related articles 284:This article is rated 265: 75:avoid personal attacks 2357:2019 El Paso shooting 2106:2023 Prague shootings 2096:2023 Prague shootings 2062:Birth date of shooter 1903:Not mentioned in lead 1357: 1195:(she/they 🎄 🏳️‍⚧️) 1014:2023 Prague shootings 461:Czech Republic portal 394: 263: 195:Auto-archiving period 100:Neutral point of view 25:2023 Prague shootings 1743:every single comment 1010:2023 Prague shooting 959:relevant style guide 955:varieties of English 736:WikiProject Firearms 105:No original research 1932:Yes and fully named 1844:Yes and fully named 1745:on the other side? 1673:use name in infobox 1064:a consensus to name 957:. 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