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not need dozens of examples to get the idea. And if the reader then wishes to decide that someone, who otherwise is not in the list, because no reliable source has mentioned them, is a member, well, who cares? There is no official factual list, there is no standing that can be falsely appropriated by a "false" member. --
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On
Saturday, Amy Winehouse passed away and became the latest member of Club 27—an exclusive club you don’t want to be in. Club 27 is headlined by musicians Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain, and Brian Jones, who all died of a drug overdose, suicide, or accident at that young age.
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I've just removed some entries sources to a 'Listverse' source on similar grounds; poor quality source, source just says they are notable deaths, not that they are club members. What is particularly distinguishing is that two of these people were not notable prior to their death, they were notable
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Most of the time the answer would be; "Nothing." We do not need an every growing list of people matching an increasingly loose definition, in the opinion of maybe one source, to fully illustrate to the reader what the "27 Club" is. It's not as if the concept is difficult to grasp, the reader does
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At this point in the discussion it looks like there is no consensus to keep the mentalfloss.com source and its unusual list of people who died at age 27, including a pope. Goffman82 and
Amakuru want to keep it, Escape_Orbit changed from keep to neutral, possibly leaning remove. Mudwater and I are
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the famous musicians, but I think there's a strong implication that the others named are also to be considered in said Club, only that they're not the headliners. This sort of analysis is a bit on the silly side anyway, given that the Club isn't a real thing anyway. But I'd be inclined to include
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of mine, with the edit summary of "the source says some people were in the 27 Club, and some other people were not". I thought that was very clear. The mentalfloss source starts by saying some people are in the 27 Club, then it says that other people have also died at age 27. It DOES NOT say that
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an article listing every famous person who died at age 27. It is only about those who have been described as belonging to the "27 Club", which must be named explicitly in a cited source. If the term "27 Club" doesn't appear in the cited source, the person's name doesn't belong
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I don't understand your revert edit summaries. Please elaborate on the rationale for reverting 1) my edit of the
History section that was under active discussion here between me and the other editor, 2) my edit of the members list which has valid references? —
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Agreed, and I think this illustrates the problem with reliable sources forming the basis of who should be in a list. Some reliable sources are free and easy about including other people, which is fine, but we really should be asking;
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Andy Bowen (May 3, 1867 – December 15, 1894) was an
American lightweight boxer best known for fighting the world's longest boxing match. He died at the age of 27. Would he meet the criteria to be added to this list? Just a thought.
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Arlester "Dyke" Christian, Roger Lee Durham, Wallace "Wally" Yohn, Zenon De Fleur, Dimitar Voev - don’t have an article anywhere at all, but they are on the list. Yung Trappy has an article in
Russian Knowledge (XXG)
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that they are not. As I said above, this issue just illustrates the almost arbitrary nature of our inclusion criteria. A slight rephrasing by one writer (Stacy
Conradt in this case) can change if someone is in or
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I did indeed provide a rationale for removing the names you added. I noted that the mentalfloss source did not explicitly place the additional names in the 27 Club. Failed verification is the problem here.
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In my view, the Mental Floss article does not say that those people are members of the 27 Club. In fact, the article strongly implies that only rock musicians are club members.
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You stated this, but from the comments in this section so far, nobody here agrees with you. The names are in an article about the 27 club, and the article doesn't say they're
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you haven't provided a rationale for reverting my edit of the
History section that was under active discussion here between me and another editor. Is there one? —
766:: celebrities who die at 27. It's hard to imagine they decided to write an article about the 27 Club simply to inform us about 10 famous people who died at 27 who
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I think it's reasonable to assume that the article's author has the same definition of Club membership as the one stated in the lead of
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Agreed. While I continue to follow the existing inclusion criteria, I strongly agree that they need to be updated. —
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But the list contains many hyperlinks to articles in other languages, or even a couple of people without articles.
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But the musically inclined aren't the only ones who die at 27. Here are 10 other people who didn’t live to see 28.
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Since no one else has spoken up in favor of this revert, I'm going to reinstate the list additions for now. @
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on
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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of value to the article, or makes the slightest difference to how these people are regarded. --
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On reading the source more carefully: being pedantic (as we must) the mentalfloss source does
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I don't know if it's significant, but your 10,000th day of life happens when you're 27.
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after. That does not fit with the criteria described at the top of the article. --
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in the club (as if that even means anything anyway) so they are valid entries. —
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1066:, Why did you cancel the dispatch? In the news, they added him to the 27 club.
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say these people are in Club 27. Indeed, it could be read that it is actually
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I think the article is actually a bit ambiguous on this point. It says that
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these people are also in the Club. That's why I removed Pope John XII, etc.
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Agreed. My reply below is in response to
Binksternet's message above. —
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which would certainly result in the Mental Floss names going away.
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I'd also re-emphasis; the inclusion of these people does not add
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Please do not add names of people who happened to die at age 27.
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Entries there must have their own article to be notable. -
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What does including all these people add to the article?
651:. Seattle Post-Intelligencer. 2007-02-27. Archived from
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Published accounts must name the "27 Club" explicitly.
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578:and see a list of open tasks.
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716:"Club 27 is headlined by..."
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125:if needed
108:Be polite
58:talk page
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880:Mudwater
399:inactive
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864:Amakuru
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608:on the
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339:B-class
268:90 days
191:WP refs
179:scholar
62:27 Club
896:saying
345:scale.
163:Google
1017:Tupac
581:Death
572:Death
544:Death
206:JSTOR
167:books
121:Seek
41:here.
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