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fine with it being added to the lead as well. To speak to importance more broadly, I'm not overly familiar with Pro Era, but regarding Pomona, we're not talking about trivia — the affiliation with 47 is an officially endorsed, elaborately carried tradition that has persisted over decades and been well documented by secondary sources. -
1556:. And JJ Abrams almost certainly took the connection from Menosky, who took it from Pomona, so yes, there's an indirect connection. To just mention Star Trek in the intro without saying where Star Trek got it from would be incomplete and confusing to readers. I'll take a stab at creating an intro that includes both, and I'll add a
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connection. But I'll go ahead and revert to a version that includes only the more established cultural connections. If you have any thoughts on those, please feel free to share them (although I'd stress the need for arguments to be based in WP policy/evidence about sourcing, rather than gut reactions
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Sports players with jerseys numbered 47 are very common, and most of them aren't notable. (Andrei
Kirilenko might be due to also having the initials A.K., but otherwise, whatever.) And Norwood's missed field goal was obviously just sheer coincidence. All the other pop-culture references seem to be
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proportionate to the availability of reliable sources. That makes the reference I provided that you removed significant, since it's a full article in a national radio program about 47 and the Pomona/Star Trek connection. There aren't all that many articles in national publications specifically about
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It seems wrong to attribute Abrams' use of 47 to Star Trek - he was using it long before he directed the Star Trek reboot. The article even mentions how it was frequently seen in Alias, which began airing 8 years before Abrams' Star Trek was released. Also, Abrams was quoted as being more of a "Star
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to prove that claim. I also removed the list of athletes who have worn the number 47. There are only so many jersey numbers to go around; of course there will be some great athletes who happen to have that number. No references were cited to show that this was a particularly meaningful number to any
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as it is applied everywhere else, including due weight proportional to the attention given to the topic in the body (which itself is supported by available secondary references). Star Trek is just the most prominent example of a Pomona alum spreading 47, so I didn't initially include it, but I'd be
517:
Maybe. The international telephone code for Norway isn't too amazing but the 47 Ronin this is pretty neat. No, every appearance of 47 is a bit much but some of the more interesting things (the whole Star Trek thing and, hey! no one wants to mention Bach?) makes a lot of sense. Say, and why is this
510:
Maybe 47 "...occurs in nature with noticeably higher frequency than other natural numbers", but that's no excuse to cite every appearence of the number in film/TV/etc. as evidence of something odd going on. For example is it really remarkable that 47 is the international telephone code for Norway
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also requires that we "harmonize coverage in the lead with material in the body of the article," and Pomona/Pro Era both have their own sections supported by sources in the body. I'd also reiterate that the "stand on its own" provision you quoted supports adding a brief mention of Pomona, since
847:
Okay, I just removed a bunch of unreferenced trivia entries that seemed exceedingly insignificant to me. Many of these, for example, seemed to be instances in which the number 47 happens to appear very briefly and inconsequentially in a movie or television show. Granted, there are many of these
426:
I don't think this should be included but a curious opinion from the notable occultist
Aleister Crowley is found in "777" (LIBER DCCLXXVII.—Vel Prolegomena Symbolica Ad Systemam Sceptico-Mysticæ Viæ Explicandæ, Fundamentum Hieroglyphicum Sanctissimorum Scientæ Summæ) otherwise known as "LIBER
848:
movies I have not seen, so perhaps the number 47 is actually a vital part of the plot; if so, feel free to replace it, with an explanation of why it is important to the film. There may be other instances in which the occurrence of 47 is part of the "in-joke" described; if so, replace it, but
427:
DCCLXXVII.—A COMPLETE DICTIONARY OF THE CORRESPONDENCES OF ALL MAGICAL ELEMENTS" which is classified by the publishers as the result of "ordinary scholarship, enlightened and earnest". Under the heading "THE MEANING OF THE PRIMES FROM 11 TO 97" the following advice is offered for number 47:
666:
For some reason, ever since I became aware (and played) the game Hitman 47, I would often notice 47 in time. Most specifically 10:47. I'm not sure why, but after getting interested (this is a daily occurrence, very often I just glance at the time and the minute is 47, I thought it was just
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NBA star Andrei
Kirilenko wears the jersey number 47. His shoes are custom made by Nike and have "AK-47" embroidered on them. Scott Norwood's legendary missed field goal was from 47 yards out. North York Bluntz forward Tyler Madarasz wears number 47, and goes by the nickname, "Dusty
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I don't think that the connection stated between Lost's number series and 47 really should be included here, I imagine if you look hard enough you can make 47 out of an awful lot of series of numbers. Why not mention things like there being an initial count of 47 survivors instead?
538:
An anon user created a sub-page to this talk page. Maybe I've done it wrong, but flagging the sub-page for deletion gives the incorrect impression that I'm nominating this whole talk page as well. If you know how to nominate only the sub-page, please let me know.
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because there should be no implication that anything those sections is "part of the joke". I don't necessarily mean to advocate for inclusion if there's consensus those sightings were too trivial. To me, they seemed on par with the remaining trivia. --
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Both the significance of the cultural entity with a 47 connection and the extent to which the entity is connected to 47 are considerations for whether and how much information to include in the body, and that translates to the intro per
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coincidence at first, but it happens so often, especially at 10). Reading here it says that this number occurs more than other numbers, and I think that is true, though only in time I can notice it's occurrence more than other numbers.
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JJ's use is almost certainly linked to a Star Wars reference; in the first season of Alias, there is a specific reference to "T-47s", in a line of dialogue that is something of a paraphrase of a line from Empire
Strikes Back.
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If the author releases it under a free license (GFDL, Creative
Commons by-sa, or public domain), that would be fine. We still call images nonfree if the license is exclusive to WP. It has to be a transferable license. — Carl
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You just reverted again, noting only that you consider the examples "unimportant." That's not a policy-based argument. Please engage on the talk page here if you wish to continue to oppose the inclusion. -
713:
I'm not experienced with the trivia issue but it seems as far as "style" goes, this section is fine (after a few minor gm edits). Someone experienced with handling out-of-control trivia should help here.
1388:? Really? Some in joke by a couple of college grads who have written scripts for Star Trek? Maybe it deserves a page at Memory Alpha, but not here. It's the sort of article that gives WP a bad name. --
826:
This list is ridiculous. Are we really assuming that every time the number 47 happens to show up anywhere it's part of a big in-joke that started in Pomona? How about some reliable references for
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Numbers are very much outliers among
Knowledge articles for often having intros so short (this one was previously just one sentence), and I think we ought to move toward consistency with
339:
being referenced, i.e. 42 plus inflation, not Berman's joke being referenced. If there's another way to word it so it's clearer that it's the explanation and not Berman, I'm all for it.
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It's in there, but it's not accessible to anyone on a text-based browser. Shouldn't someone write a longer more explanitory caption for it? I don't have the time myself at the moment.
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tag; although number leads are difficult, if we include culture connections, we should include the most significant connections, not the most established connections. By the way,
639:
In attempting to resolve the "citation needed" tag, I did a bit of web diving. I can find no references to 47 miracles in the New
Testament, even in fiction. Several sites (
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is not working as of this writing, but I've decided to give it the benefit of the doubt. Related, I'm unsure of the value of an external links section to this article.
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if we're being technical) needs to be "proportional to its treatment in the body of reliable, published material on the subject", and such material does exist for the
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when other nearby countries have nearby numbers (UK - 44, Denmark - 45, Sweden - 46, Germany - 49); or that New Mexico is the 47th state; or that there were 47 Ronin?
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776:" be made into its own section. Perhaps in a "Trivia" section? But then it becomes a free-for-all of trivial facts, which is not appreciated here at Knowledge. (See
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If I get the author's permission to distribute it, would it then not be Fair Use, and able to be used in the article? For me, I believe it would be easy to do that.
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That's the intro to the section; if you read down a few paragraphs, the way importance is calculated is established not by editors' intuitions but rather by
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the following sightings can be attributed to it. Rather, I believe they're meant as "naturally" occurring trivia (barring new evidence to the contrary).
1232:. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out
113:
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after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add
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150:? I don't know) "infected" other Star Trek writers with it, and as a result the number occurs in a subtle hidden way in every episode of
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periods of 780 days each - Mars returns to the same position among the stars and is in the same relationship to the Earth and Sun. The
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Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Knowledge is a
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The Star Trek fan wiki "Memory Alpha" has some more details on it's article on 47 but itself doesn't reference much source material:
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points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article." (Emphasis added.) —
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of the entries in the list showing that they are in fact intentional in-jokes and not just a number chosen more or less at random? —
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more examples just for the purpose of making it even more cumbersome". Maybe a Star Trek fan, the previous example was 42? --
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The article may be confusing in regard to the scope of the "in-joke" popularized by Star Trek. When it says "From Star Trek,
479:
How come somew of the *s had spaces and some had none? We should be consistent. I changed them to all have spaces after them.
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with inflation involved.. Does anyone remember this comic, since I feel that it would rather be a big contribution to the
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didn't want to imply that the joke came from Berman. I worded it the way I did to try to make clear that it was the same
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331:, next to the Berman quote. Also, it was Tuvok, not Paris. I got a bit of flack for saying what I did, though, because
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Man, it's kinda awful that this article has more information about Pomona
College than the Pomona College article. --
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OR J.J. Abrams should be included in the lead either, as it seems like just happening to include them is borderline
880:) that include the number 47 in their titles, though I did delete references to some bands that were apparently not
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806:" etc are technically subsections. If they're to remain, they should be reorganized into stand-alone sections. --
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Thanks for chiming in, Erpert. Thinking about it a bit more, I'm actually somewhat on the fence about including
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and thanks for getting me to collect these because the latter also clarifies that the writer in question is
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I think the number of survivors used to be on the page. As for the numerology, many people get 47s out of
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the number 47, so
Marketplace's coverage is as good an indicator of importance as you're likely to find.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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otherwise it is impossible to explain why 47 appears in Star Trek, which readers will surely wonder. -
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to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
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47 was carried on into modern pop culture and nowadays appears frequently in...", that's not to claim
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survivors, but I assume that includes Ethan. I can't come up with any other example of 47 in Lost. -
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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for a centralized discusion as to whether Bingo names should be included in thiese articles.
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deliberate in-jokes by the writers, but these sports references look like just random chance.
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OK, I was going along with you until you said "47 is not a prime;" that's just plain stupid.
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Ahh, thanks, it's been awhile since I've read the comic since they've archived it away.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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in the Popular Culture section, where music was referenced. I recommend adding it in.
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where the claim may be applied. See the above linked policy for further elaboration.
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http://web.archive.org/web/20090429021701/http://www.allalias.com/guide/index.php/47
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A preview of the book is available on Amazon and Google. It's also available here:
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you think that this list of examples has become excessively long and boring...
647:) 47 is not a prime number it is proven to be composite by many investigators.
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to the list) are deliberate on the part of the writers or simply coincidences.
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To Timwi: Thanks for catching the errant video game citation -- nice job...
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The fourth reference in this article - "The Mystique of 47". Pomona College.
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have sufficient importance in themselves to be worth listing in the lead.
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of the athletes who wore it; it seemed to me to be just an example of the
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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Attempted to fix sourcing for //www.pomona.edu/welcome/trek/trek.shtml
980:. Retrieved 2010-01-12." - brings up a 404. Can someone update this?
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hoping this will make trivia unrelated to Star Trek easier to manage.
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Attempted to fix sourcing for //www.pomona.edu/welcome/trek/kyl.shtml
429:"The yoni as dynamic, prehensile, spasmodic, etc. Esprit de travail."
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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Numbers#List of British bingo nicknames
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Also deleted link to 47Movies.com, as this link was bad. link to;
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On that same note, I wonder whether each of the 47s spotted on
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Never mind. It got deleted correctly - and damn quick too.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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Sure, I just listed it. Thanks for making the suggestion.
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What about numerology? Anyone knows anything about this?
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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Moved from article, until we have a reference for it.
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For what it's worth, I did keep those items (such as
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777 And Other Qabalistic Writings of Aleister Crowley
78:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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Wars guy" before he signed on to direct Star Trek (
684:I think that just means your clock has stopped...
28:This article has not yet been rated on Knowledge's
1038:I think this section may be a little bit trivial:
112:This article has not yet received a rating on the
1600:: "The lead section should briefly summarize the
300:The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything
142:TV programme who graduated from Pomona College (
1173:http://www.startrek.com/database_article/abrams
978:http://www.pomona.edu/welcome/trek/47trek.shtml
1489:probably has more significance in itself than
1128:47-year cycle of Mars observed by the ancients
1009:http://www.pomona.edu/about/47/star-trek.aspx
187:http://www.pomona.edu/welcome/trek/trek.shtml
8:
197:. Moving the text back into the article. --
1106:The song Jailhouse Rock contains the line "
746:"rm things that can't possibly be in-jokes"
1647:I'm not convinced. Do you want to invoke
1225:The Knowledge community encourages you to
802:Thank you Staecker for pointing out that "
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21:
19:
1007:Refreshed link as this page had moved to
744:I undid the 1 Jan 2010 edits by Staecker
576:be used on disambiguation pages, only on
468:Many online copies exclude this material.
439:. Boston: Red Wheel/Weiser, LLC. p. xxv.
1108:Number forty-seven said to number three
911:are relevant to Pomona. (But kudos for
709:Replacement of copyedit with trivia tag
317:with Paris asking Janeway a question..
45:
1090:What does that have to do with 47? —
327:*pokes you* Look in the article. It's
1321:to let others know (documentation at
884:enough to have a Knowledge article. —
7:
1760:about what feels important or not).
182:http://www.47.net/47society/47story/
72:This article is within the scope of
1792:Unknown-importance Numbers articles
1505:have more significance than either
1244:New contributors are always welcome
772:". So I guess you'll suggest that "
34:It is of interest to the following
1252:many reasons why you might want to
768:" is a subsection of the section "
215:https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/47
14:
1278:. Please take a moment to review
1242:to try out your editing skills.
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1069:I couldn't find Elvis Presley's
635:47 Miracles in the New Testament
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1539:involvement with Star Trek. —
1146:discovered this cycle.<ref]
568:Please note that this image is
518:article so very small, anyway?
458:. Celephaïs Press. 2008. p. 134
153:Star Trek: The Next Generation
1:
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533:Confusing deletion nomination
92:Knowledge:WikiProject Numbers
86:and see a list of open tasks.
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764:I removed them because the "
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389:by computing number series.
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1560:to help justify Pomona. -
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1271:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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159:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
114:project's importance scale
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1535:? It certainly predates
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1246:. You don't even need to
1065:In Popular Culture, Music
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939:47 (number)#As an in-joke
662:Coincidence? I think not.
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1716:I actually don't think
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932:reorganized the article
290:I remember there was a
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729:Trivia and the in-joke
398:There were initially 4
1708:third opinion request
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286:Sev Trek/42 reference
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859:pigeonhole principle
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30:content assessment
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481:—The preceding
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416:47 - Numerology
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255:Law & Order
232:165.247.109.238
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1602:most important
1533:Pomona College
1507:Pomona College
1491:Pomona College
1453:, perhaps. —
1439:Pomona College
1437:I don't think
1427:
1426:Lead expansion
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1282:. You may add
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462:September 22,
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1706:Response to
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1653:Arthur Rubin
1606:Arthur Rubin
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1577:Arthur Rubin
1541:Arthur Rubin
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1234:
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1092:Arthur Rubin
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739:all (or any)
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716:Belovedeagle
712:
665:
638:
606:Admiral Memo
582:
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516:
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478:
460:. Retrieved
436:
428:
419:
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404:TheContralto
399:
391:Admiral Memo
386:
379:
366:
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341:Admiral Memo
336:
312:
310:
308:side of 47?
303:
289:
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266:
262:
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251:The Simpsons
250:
236:
229:
212:
208:DJ Clayworth
204:
172:DJ Clayworth
170:
163:
157:
151:
137:
134:
73:
36:WikiProjects
1623:MOS:LEADREL
1407:Please see
1325:Sourcecheck
1276:47 (number)
989:Terrorist96
983:—Preceding
686:—Preceding
572:and should
520:75.48.30.93
376:47 and Lost
337:explanation
329:right there
269:(and I add
206:Good work.
195:Joe Menosky
144:Rick Berman
1781:Categories
1751:(actually
1529:J J Abrams
1503:J J Abrams
1451:J J Abrams
1386:WP:NOTABLE
1380:Notability
561:Regarding
1757:Star Trek
1753:WP:BALASP
1745:Star Trek
1718:Star Trek
1598:MOS:INTRO
1554:MOS:INTRO
1499:Star Trek
1468:MOS:INTRO
1447:Star Trek
1355:this tool
1348:this tool
1166:JJ Abrams
1149:</ref]
972:Dead link
937:I notice
909:sightings
907:of these
804:In sports
778:WP:TRIVIA
774:In sports
766:In sports
552:Astronaut
541:Astronaut
487:47 Numb3r
387:Star Trek
333:Sevilians
305:Star Trek
259:NYPD Blue
140:Star Trek
1749:WP:UNDUE
1722:WP:UNDUE
1361:Cheers.—
1286:cbignore
1132:I added
997:contribs
985:unsigned
943:WP:POINT
878:47 Ronin
786:Staecker
688:unsigned
578:Sev Trek
570:Fair Use
495:contribs
483:unsigned
435:(1986).
292:Sev Trek
1511:Pro Era
1495:Pro Era
1443:Pro Era
1371::Online
1311:checked
1280:my edit
1240:sandbox
1228:be bold
1140:synodic
1052:Lurlock
882:notable
583:~Kylu (
354:DrWho42
319:DrWho42
314:Voyager
131:Sources
89:Numbers
80:Numbers
55:Numbers
1727:Erpert
1656:(talk)
1618:WP:DUE
1609:(talk)
1544:(talk)
1497:, but
1458:(talk)
1319:failed
1294:nobots
1259:(talk)
1254:). —
1248:log in
1095:(talk)
951:do not
915:). --
271:Scrubs
32:scale.
1651:? —
1649:WP:3O
1558:WP:RS
930:I've
901:(O_o)
886:Bkell
863:Bkell
832:Bkell
456:(PDF)
263:Alias
239:Coll7
218:KaiRo
199:Timwi
1766:talk
1762:Sdkb
1669:talk
1665:Sdkb
1643:Sdkb
1632:talk
1628:Sdkb
1588:talk
1584:Sdkb
1566:talk
1562:Sdkb
1527:the
1501:and
1477:talk
1473:Sdkb
1449:and
1441:and
1433:Sdkb
1417:talk
1394:talk
1390:Ef80
1315:true
1217:wiki
1199:talk
1181:talk
1157:talk
1136:Mars
1116:talk
1081:talk
1056:talk
1044:47."
1025:talk
993:talk
963:talk
953:add
921:talk
905:none
890:talk
867:talk
861:). —
836:talk
812:talk
790:talk
780:and
755:talk
720:talk
696:talk
673:talk
622:talk
524:talk
491:talk
464:2009
441:ISBN
368:TRiG
298:was
267:Lost
265:and
222:talk
162:and
1537:his
1509:or
1493:or
1329:).
1317:or
828:any
784:.)
735:the
645:two
641:one
618:CBM
574:not
108:???
1783::
1768:)
1724:.
1711::
1671:)
1634:)
1590:)
1568:)
1525:is
1521:}}
1515:{{
1487:47
1479:)
1419:)
1396:)
1327:}}
1323:{{
1292:{{
1288:}}
1284:{{
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1183:)
1159:)
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1058:)
1027:)
999:)
995:•
965:)
955:47
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923:)
892:)
869:)
838:)
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757:)
722:)
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675:)
643:,
620:·
595:)
526:)
506:BS
497:)
493:•
296:47
261:,
257:,
253:,
224:)
168:.
156:,
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