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litany of the accusations that have been made against
Ballinger. Siwa is the most prominent person who has spoken out in defense of Ballinger, and readers of this article should be able to read what she said. Note also that many of Siwa's videos with Ballinger, both on Ballinger's channels and on her own have been viewed hundreds of millions of times, making Siwa probably Ballinger's most successful ongoing collaboration, so she is not a "random person". I still think the
1864:“ She has also been noted as a YouTuber who is "a good influence on kids". sorry but I don’t think moms.com is a reliable reference. Even worse the page is a 404 and the archived version is from 2019, way before all the controversy. maybe whatever moms.com is removed her being a “good influence” after reading or seeing the controversy about her. This good influence bit should be removed because it’s not a reliable source and it’s not even on the website anymore.
1332:, though I disagree. There was only two reversions, almost ten days apart. After the first reversion I asked the user to bring it to talk page so we could respectfully discuss it. After it was re-added without that having been done, I added the talk comment above before my second reversion. From my understanding of edit warring, that does not constitute edit warring, and I don't appreciate you threatening to block me over that.
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1567:"The substance of Ballinger’s alleged grooming ... has not been interrogated by media outlets reporting on the controversy. ... allegations of 'grooming' flexibly employ the term in a fashion not unlike how it's weaponized in right-wing circles against LGBTQ+ people; the described behavior does not approach the sexual exploitation or abuse that the actual definition of 'grooming' indicates.
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was asked about the situation on a random podcast, and gave her opinion. I also think you have selectively chosen the quote, as seen by the long ellipses you included. What you think of as "balance" is not really balance IMO, I think you just want to end the section on a positive word about
Ballinger. That's fine if you do, but find one that makes sense to put there.
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but you have not demonstrated any consensus to add this quote, and after how long it took for that section to reach balance, I would think you would be careful before trying to unilaterally act out again. Let me recall that it was you who was the center of that nonsense in BLP about this. There is no need for this to continue, just remove your biases please.....
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commented:" that flows better in the context of the full section, but that's just wording semantics. Perhaps citing the article author's name, or adding a phrase like "Later," to the beginning of the sentence to make when the article was presented from the timeline more clear. But on the substance, I
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article, together with a link to the podcast itself for anyone interested in listening to primary source. These are still currently in the text and are what
Criticalus wishes to delete. However, these are needed, at a bare minimum, to add some balance to this one-side discussion that otherwise is a
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I appreciate your response. I just want to make it absolutely clear that I have no campaign against any editors, and I apologize if my heated comment above gave off that impression. There are many discussions in the talk archives that show us all working constructively, and I welcome that dialogue. I
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I was unfamilar with Siwa and
Ballinger's past relationship, thank you for sharing that context. If there is a consensus to add these quotes, I have no objections of course. Vanity Fair was already attempted to be added and rejected by a consensus just a couple months ago, I think, but of course it
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Two notable individuals, one of whom was collaborating with
Ballinger at the time (and is therefore a source of knowledge and insight into the events) has valid knowledge and a key viewpoint on events that we should show here. (Despite what was claimed in one of the reverts, neither Mandel nor Siwa
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I have been watching this article since noticing the fuss and fully protecting it in July. Your edits are text book edit warring and the comments above are text book poking of opponents. You will be blocked if there are ever any further double or triple reverts on this article (apart from the usual
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For God's sakes, disagreing with you and asking to talk about it in the talk page is *not* edit warring. I can't believe how badly you guys want to run interference to prevent this article from being unbiased, it's insane. I frankly don't care enough to get into an engaged, protracted thing again,
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I have removed the JoJo Siwa quote again. Please do not add it back without demonstrated consensus. In this context, she is a random person. She is notable in the sense she has her own
Knowledge article, sure, but she is not relevant to the conversation about Colleen Ballinger, other than that she
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This misses the key idea that the media had misused the term "grooming", which is what caught their attention from McIntyre's videos, and their clear conclusion that
Ballinger's behavior "does not approach the sexual exploitation or abuse that... 'grooming' indicates". This is the shortest quote
1346:
Some quick thought will show that your scenario cannot be allowed at
Knowledge—how would it work if everyone waited a few days before continuing their campaign against multiple editors? At any rate, it would be better to ask for advice until you have more experience. It doesn't matter, but FYI, a
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See the detailed discussion about this on this Talk page's archived discussions. This was discussed in detail and at length. Ballinger has never even been accused of (let alone prosecuted for) any crime, and the accusations of mildly inappropriate conduct against her are amply covered in the
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Siwa explains their relationship in the podcast video, the relevant 7 minutes of which, I suggest are worth watching. Plus, if one watches
Ballinger's videos over the years, I think they explain a lot about her relationship with her young audience that is missed by the news sources that have,
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Watch the segment. Mandel does not know anything about the facts or have anything else of value to add on this topic. What is of interest is that Siwa was willing to say anything at all knowing that McIntyre and his brigade would come after her on their social media, which they did. --
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I thought he was just doing his job as an interviewer: pushing his interviewee to give a more complete answer. I wouldn't characterise it as 'pushing back'. (And we shouldn't be trying to characterise it as anything of the sort: that's for secondary sources to do). -
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published allegations of "grooming" flexibly employ the term in a fashion not unlike how it’s weaponized in right-wing circles against LGBTQ+ people; the described behavior does not approach the sexual exploitation or abuse that the actual definition of “grooming”
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article points out, they are "racking up hundreds of thousands of views" for their channels by attacking
Ballinger. Indeed, McIntyre has posted at least a hundred videos to his YouTube channel attacking Ballinger. Here is what I think we should quote from
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that noted that McIntyre "rack up hundreds of thousands of views—by commenting on the hypocrisy of every move" and noting that his 3-year campaign against Ballinger finally "captured the attention of the mainstream press" with the salacious accusations.
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I saw a bit of the podcast video, but I will watch the full relevant portion of the podcast. From what I saw though, it seemed Howie Mandel was pushing back on Siwa a bit, would it be worth including any part of his comments from the podcast as well?
1391:
Let's back up a little: Almost all of the content that we painstakingly added in recent months regarding the accusations against Ballinger discusses the videos against Ballinger by former fans or friends. Previously, I suggested that, to add some
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think if there's an edit that is called into question, it's fair for editors to workshop it through the talk page before re-introducing it into mainspace, and the implication that my goal was to edit war or campaign against anyone is incorrect.
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is. As long as it is clear that the stance is one from VF (ie. clarified or quoted in the text and with the supporting citation), then this is OK. I think the shorter suggestion is a nothing quote that confuses more than enlightens. -
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1710:"The substance of Ballinger’s alleged grooming ... has not been interrogated by media outlets reporting on the controversy. ... he described behavior does not approach the sexual exploitation or abuse that ... 'grooming' indicates.
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exemptions for blatant vandalism or BLP violations). The article is now fully protected. Would someone please ping me or any other admin if consensus is reached so the previous indefinite auto-confirmed protection can be restored.
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No: Please read the comments from this page that are archived in recent months. It was agreed, basically, that the word "groom" does not accurately describe what Ballinger was actually accused of. The meaning of "groom" is
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unfortunately and uncritically, repeated the sensational allegations by a small number of disaffected ex-fans, ex-employees, and her ex-husband, all of whom are YouTubers who have monetized these attacks. As the
1995:. There is no dispute that she was never even accused of this, so the word "groom" as mentioned in the press is totally misused and was used simply for sensational and salacious purposes by the press and is
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I think the final quote suggestion you made (05:03, 14 October 2023) is well-balanced. My only suggestion would be to consider perhaps a different way to introduce the quote than "An article in
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Whether the behavior amounts to grooming or not is not one for an encyclopedia to determine, it feels like a weird quote to pull from that piece. I think we should avoid that latter sentence.
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can always be revisited now. If you have a proposed text re: Vanity Fair inclusion, it would be appreciated if you would put the proposed text in the talk discussion here first.
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are “A random person”: both are notable in their own rights) and Siwa, as a collaborator of Ballinger, is definitely relevant to the article. -
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Move the "Accusations of inappropriate conduct" content to the semi-standardized "Controversies" heading, instead of burying under "Reception"
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What the title says, the fact that her misconduct was with minors is an important piece of information that should be included in the lead.
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Re, the Vanity Fair quote, I disagree with the one you have selected, it's far too long. Here is a potential shorter version draft:
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Because they were only accusations on social media that were expressed in salacious terms, so they were picked up by the press. --
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The substance of Ballinger’s alleged grooming ... has not been interrogated by media outlets reporting on the controversy either.
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I agree that the quotes from "Us Weekly" magazine and "Vanity Fair" magazine should be included in the discussion.
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Late reply I apologize, but the fact that they were against minors in particular is an important detail.
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Why isn’t the fact that the accusations of misconduct were done with minors mentioned in the lead?
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analysis should be added back, as it is also necessary to add balance to this discussion. --
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I endorse the suggestion made by Ssilvers above. I believe this is the way forward
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discussed her long relationship with Ballinger, and included some quotes from the
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OK, I added the writer's name and added the material chronologically. --
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I know nothing about this topic but I think the above comments support
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to FA; Tag all articles you find with {{WikiProject Internet culture}}
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not been interrogated by media outlets reporting on the controversy."
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Late to the table, but for my two penn'orth I think the quotes from
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32:This is the
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1769:WP:CSECTION
1742:Vanity Fair
1708:commented:
1705:Vanity Fair
1563:Vanity Fair
1558:Vanity Fair
1490:Vanity Fair
1444:Vanity Fair
1421:Vanity Fair
1408:Vanity Fair
1399:Vanity Fair
1034:Substitute
326:check views
161:free images
44:not a forum
2117:Categories
2063:|answered=
2007:. Compare
1914:Aardwolf68
1885:Aardwolf68
1830:Criticalus
1728:Criticalus
1674:Criticalus
1535:Criticalus
1486:a fortiori
1417:indicates.
1414:HuffPost’s
1368:Criticalus
1334:Criticalus
1301:Criticalus
1271:Criticalus
974:Apply the
345:(pictured)
1945:WP:RECENT
1933:WP:GOSSIP
1931:but also
1602:this edit
1497:Tim riley
1482:Us Weekly
1439:Us Weekly
1435:JoJo Siwa
1426:Us Weekly
1263:Us Weekly
768:See also
519:Biography
464:Musicians
459:Biography
398:libellous
366:Knowledge
316:Main Page
292:consensus
101:if needed
84:Be polite
34:talk page
2100:Ssilvers
2013:Ssilvers
1949:Ssilvers
1900:Ssilvers
1844:Ssilvers
1807:SchroCat
1793:Jack1956
1773:Ssilvers
1747:SchroCat
1714:Ssilvers
1648:SchroCat
1633:Ssilvers
1606:Johnuniq
1585:contribs
1577:Ssilvers
1573:unsigned
1518:Jack1956
1464:SchroCat
1448:Ssilvers
1410:noted: "
1353:Johnuniq
1330:Johnuniq
1316:Johnuniq
1286:SchroCat
1002:Maintain
199:Archives
69:get help
42:This is
40:article.
1394:balance
1236:on the
1147:on the
991:Cleanup
897:history
870:on the
843:YouTube
834:YouTube
806:YouTube
761:YouTube
661:history
430:B-class
318:in the
236:30Â days
167:WPÂ refs
155:scholar
2005:WP:DUE
2003:, and
1941:WP:DUE
1929:WP:BLP
1765:WP:FAC
969:Assess
708:Expand
436:scale.
139:Google
2067:|ans=
2057:This
1947:. --
1771:. --
1484:and,
1027:Other
1015:Stubs
907:purge
902:watch
752:Other
739:Stubs
726:Photo
671:purge
666:watch
204:Index
182:JSTOR
143:books
97:Seek
2104:talk
2085:talk
2031:talk
2017:talk
1981:talk
1953:talk
1943:and
1918:talk
1904:talk
1889:talk
1870:talk
1848:talk
1834:talk
1811:talk
1797:talk
1777:talk
1751:talk
1732:talk
1718:talk
1678:talk
1652:talk
1637:talk
1610:talk
1581:talk
1539:talk
1522:talk
1502:talk
1468:talk
1452:talk
1372:talk
1357:talk
1338:talk
1320:talk
1305:talk
1290:talk
1275:talk
961:list
959:see
928:and
892:edit
862:High
746:here
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715:here
656:edit
508:and
175:FENS
149:news
86:and
2065:or
2025:Ok
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1228:Low
1139:Low
978:on
717:or
630:???
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