274:.. Well Maysara, firstly, the Copts did not want to marry people who were oppressing them, just because they didn't want to change their religion. I dont think you know that one of the MAIN reasons why the Copts exist today is because of the Abyssinians empire? Many centuries ago, when the Arabs tried to wipe out the Copts, the emperor of Abyssinia warned the Arabs that if they attempted to do this atrocity, he would block the Nile from Lake Tana to Egypt. Let me also tell you this, Arabic is one of the languages spoken by somalians, so are they arab? Obviously not. The Copts have their own language, but since they are minorities, (10%), what other choice do they have to fit in?. Arabic is the official language in Egypt. Listen, the Copts say that they are not Arab. Respect their opinion. Just for the sake of it, lets say they were arab. But they dont want to be arab anymore! I hope I gave you an interesting answer. Maysara. By the way Maysara, please respond on my talkpage
223:.. It is quite evident that the Copts are not Arab. Firstly, they did not accept the Arabization of their people. Secondly, they were not too keen on intermarriage with the Arabs. Also I would like to say that there are many countries that have lost their old identities because of the Arabs (such as Yemen). Another example of this would be the Yemenite Jews who faced so much persecution from the Arabs they had to leave their home land. The same goes for Jews and christians in North Africa.
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the end of the pharaonic age was estimated to be 10 millions (currently 79 million, in 1956 18 million). However, the population of the Arab peninsula as a whole is less than this. So, it is not possible that intermarriages between
Egyptians and Arabs could have changed the Egyptian ethnicity. The above link in this page to the CIA world fact book clarifies the matter.
359:
Amazigh, or a sister language of Arabic in Yemen is an considered now to be an Arab culturally. Especially that these native ancient languages are now *mostly* extinct. Do you dispute the fact that the native language of %100 of
Egyptian Christians today is Arabic (again, I'm not mentioning the extreme examples of families ideological emigrants in EU and US)
682:
iconography on
Knowledge (XXG), so it should feature at least one. Coptic icons figure strongly in the culture. And what about Pope Shenouda? Instead of restoring the tags, maybe I could replace it with the photo of the priests in the meantime. Also, the languages should be in the order they are used. —
470:
I am incredulous as to the idea that 'E-gyptus' is derived from a series of vaguely similar sounding ancient
Egyptian words. I have spent many years living and working in Egypt, and I have never heard this explanation of the derivation of Copt. Perhaps some more sources could be provided illustrating
210:
Somebody changed the latest Census date to 2005. I belive that CAPMAS (the egyptian census taking agency) runs decenial censuses and that the next one is scheduled for 2006 with results most likely not available until 2007. Numbers dated 2005 are therefore estimates and should be quoted as such. Feel
89:
Somebody changed the latest Census date to 2005. I belive that CAPMAS (the egyptian census taking agency) runs decenial censuses and that the next one is scheduled for 2006 with results most likely not available until 2007. Numbers dated 2005 are therefore estimates and should be quoted as such. Feel
507:
Actually, I agree with the person who edited this part out. Don't know why I didn't think of that before, but this section has been one of the most edited parts (back-and-forth). It's written in acrimonious language that invites polemical edits. What does it matter that some reactionaries claim this
440:
I have re-updated that section I initially added to reflect that it is not conclusive as to the origin of the Copts. The claim that most
Egyptians decend from the original native inhabitants is correct; my update reflects this, but that certain communities tend to reflect more closely the indigenous
370:
The often repeated argument of "nation X speak Arabic as one of their languages. Does that make them Arab!" serves no purpose. No one is trying to force the Arabic
Pennensulaic identity on Copts. It is the otherway round. It is the intent of some Egyptian Christians in here to exclude non-Christian
589:
I'm an
American Catholic and I'm just learning about Coptic Christianity (I thought it was pretty much a dead religion and didn't know there was any real Christian population in Egypt) and I'd like to find a Copt message board for discussion. I've found several but they're all in Arabic, so I was
422:
Changing the religion of a person does not mean that his ethnicity changed. When the
Egyptians embraced Islam, their ethnicity didn't change. Egypt is a very special country. For thousands of years there was no significant emigrations from or into Egypt. Please note that the population of Egypt at
358:
There are ethnic Arabs, those of Arabia, and there are cultural Arabs, those speaking Arabic language. This later concept sometimes overlaps with other identity vectors due to the fact the Arabic language and
Islamar have historically expanded hand in hand. A person whose ancestors spoke Aramaic,
336:
Okay, please give me a definition of what an Arab is. Also, what language do the
Egyptian priests have their church services in? Do you know why they didnt choose Arabic? If they wanted to be Arabs, they would have chosen Arabic. This question doesnt require sources but rather logic and common
106:
I strongly disagree with the passage claiming the rejection of the usage of term 'Copt' by nationalist Muslim Egyptians to signify themselves, and suggesting the exclusive use by Christian Egyptians. As such, I edited it. Nefertum17, what is your idea about the etymology of modern Egyptian Arabic
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there should be something about all the oppression and bad treatment that the government is doing to the copts. Arabs have conquered Egypt and are oppressing the copts in a similar way like they're oppressing all the other peoples of the middle east (like maroones in lebanon and jews in Israel).
491:
In modern usage, the word "Copt" has become synonymous with the Christians of Egypt. Some Egyptian Christians claim exclusive, direct ancestry from the Egyptians of Pharaonic times, while claiming that Muslim Egyptians are descended from the Ottomans and from invaders from the Arabian Peninsula.
250:
has already said that "Egyptians, Copts or Muslims, don't have Arabic origins but many consider themselves Arab because of the language they all speak." So, first, how could you then say that the Copts "did not accept the Arabization of their people" if all Copts today, speak what's known as the
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have one, so it's probably helpful to have one here. The collage though should be replaced with one of more prominent Copts. Marianos of Faras was more likely a Byzantine monk, not Coptic. The postcard of the girl is obscure and still needs a reliable citation. There is no shortage of Coptic
508:
or that? Why invite this sort of argument if the article doesn't warrant it? I do find the article balanced without it--it describes members of the Coptic Church and explains the word's etymology. At any rate, I won't just delete it but will try rewrite it to make it more neutral —
302:
4. Please stop replying by starting a new title or header, just write your reply below the writings and replies of others. You certainly gave me an horribly boring answer; and I have absolutely no reason in replying in your talk-page. Discussions should continue in the
341:
Coptic Egyptians identify themselves as "Arabs", most merely as "Arabic speakers". They have their own language (which died out as a vernacular some 300 years ago) and have their own rites of Orthodox Christianity." and also "Many do not consider themselves Arabs"
740:
Excellent, then it shouldn't be difficult to cite that information. You're welcome to replace the picture of the priests with the collage again, but the tags will need to say for both Marianos and the postcard until reliable citations are provided. Thanks. —
255:?! Second, what makes you believe that the Muslim-Egyptians are Arabized then; couldn't they have changed their religion only without changing the properties of their bodies and physiology as well (or is Muslim a synonymous with Arab?) Again,
441:
inhabitants, which doesn't include the Copts. I've done research providing a citation of at least one Egyptologist who shows that the Copts are descended from Greeks who immigrated to Egypt during the early 4th Century
285:
1. Please provide academic or any published material supporting your arguments; Knowledge (XXG) is no place for personal openions and speculations, it is an encyclopedia where every statement aught be verified or
454:
Moustafa Gadalla is not a professional Egyptologist– a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering ordinarily does not qualify one for that position. Have his writings ever even been addressed by mainstream
531:. Instead, this article is about the word 'Coptic' itself and the natinality, not the faith. The political implications and existing, though unfounded, calims of racial purity are closely associated with it. --
570:
I just realized there are so many spelling variations of the name in English. However, under external links you will find the web site of the Coptic Museum listed. Semika Pasha is mentioned here specifically
526:
I find the subject section in its current form to be superior to the previous. However I don't agree with you that this article is about members of the Coptic Church as there is another article covering that:
562:
As a translator of the article to Norwegian (for Norwegian Knowledge (XXG)) I really need a reference to the person "Morcus Semika Pasha" and the "Coptic Museum", which can not be verified by using Goodle.
799:"The English word Copt is from New Latin Coptus, which is derived from Arabic qubṭi قبطي (pl: qubṭ قبط and aqbāṭ أقباط), an Arabisation of the Coptic word kubti (Bohairic) and/or kuptaion (Sahidic)."
398:
With all respect, I have to say that what I'm witnessing here is indeed emotional and not much different from the claims of Islamists, and in my opinion is a reaction induced by that pressure.
497:
This statement and that section were there since the major rewriting of the article last year and were removed recently by an anonyonous who didn't explain why they are not valid. --
444:. If you want the article to be Neutral POV, please do not completely cut the section as it expresses the fact that an indigeous idenitity of Copts is completely inconclusive.
723:
p.s Zerida, Bishop Marianus of Faras was not a Byzanian Bishop. He was Copt, however, he did had many contact with the Byzantine counrt and the church. Best Regards.
604:
There are many Coptic forums online. One of the most active is www.freecopts.net/forum It is mainly in Arabic but has sections in English, French, Italian and German
479:
Zerida, I don't see how removing the paragraph about modern use and nationalists, both of which are true, will stop the edit wars while it will make it unbalanced!
374:
Can you please tell me what do you call a person who once was Coptic Orthodox and stopped being so, or comes of a family who is so but he himself is no longer so?
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3. There is no such thing as "Listen, the Copts say that they are not Arab. Respect their opinion." I respect only verifiable information. YOU don't know that
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salamaleikum Zerida, how are you? That photo of 19C Copt girl was purchased on ebay. Its a very old post card depicting medival copt. All the best.
259:
that Muslim-Egyptians ethnically belong to the Arab race?! It will indeed be interesting to know the answer of all these questions. Thank you, __
319:
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Copts believe so. ALL your openions so far are unverifiable. Please stop arguing and try to provide useful material for the encyclopedia.
323:
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What do you call an Egyptian person who was not born in an Egyptian Christian family but then converted in Coptic Christianity?
326:, and don't stop looking for further information about Knowledge (XXG) after these, really, I beg you read these and more! __
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Egyptians from the Coptic identity and to force a religious dimention to it instead of the national identifier which it is.
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574:. I think the name should reflect the most commonly used spelling. I'll change it once I find out what that is. —
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It and the next sentence suggests that kubti (Bohairic) derived form the Greek. Shouldn't it be that the Arabic
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The article is still lacking in information on Coptic human rights. I've included a brief on the topic at
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Or are you going to do like the Egyptian government and say that there is not such a thing happening? :)
363:"Do you know why they didnt choose Arabic? If they wanted to be Arabs, they would have chosen Arabic."
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Some Egyptian nationalists use Copt in a its original generic sense to signify any native of Egypt.
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did you know that the Copts "were not too keen on intermarriage with the Arabs"? 2.
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before attempting to plunge so deeply in the solid! These pages might be helpful:
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The article might not need this type of infobox because it's already covered at
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Do you have any sources to back this up? Otherwise, it won't be allowed in.--
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wondering if there are any English Copt boards for American Copts or whatnot.
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I think that this paragraph should be put in the article but be well written.
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2. Copts may or maynot be Arab, but this applied to Muslim-Egyptians as well.
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Will someone please revert this page to before (10:50, 29 Jan 2005 Afanous)
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What kind of logic is this! Will you please rephrase what you meant to say.
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I have elaborated my thoughts and arguments more on this subject there
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sense Maysara. Also if you read the arab christian article it says "
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I replaced the images. All the photos on that image are of copts.
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was derived from the Greek and subsequently this Arabised word (
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Might it be more apt and helpful to describe groups like the
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5. Please try to know more about some Knowledge (XXG)
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Copts are not Arabs, they even say they are not Arabs
818:being dropped through influence from the Arabic.
354:"please give me a definition of what an Arab is"
130:with Arabic حط ḥṭ or محط mḥṭ, meaning place of
126:and taking the layman's liberty of identifying
638:, but I think it should be elaborated here. —
471:proof of this somewhat tenuous connection...?
404:, which has insightful opinions by others too.
114:Also, I'm not an Egyptlogist, but when I read
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608:Arab Egyptians performing Genocide on copts
418:The Copts are not of a different ethnicity
90:free to correct me if am wrong on that.
489:and the section about modern use says: "
211:free to correct me if am wrong on that.
320:Knowledge (XXG):Policies and guidelines
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
324:Knowledge (XXG):Neutral point of view
198:? Which is more precise and neutral?
142:, I find it should be translated as "
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395:, what does "Coptic Christian" mean?
585:Anywhere I can dialogue with Copts?
482:The line about nationalists sayd: "
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242:, 1. Could you tell us please,
194:groups within their respective
624:10:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
517:Edited and expanded section —
475:On modern use and nationalists
347:20:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
331:21:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
279:20:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
264:06:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
96:User_talk:Afanous#Coptic_et_al
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780:17:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
759:03:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
728:18:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
713:15:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
700:19:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
668:15:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
654:10:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
553:02:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
492:These claims are non-factual.
460:10:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
449:22:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
431:10:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
412:20:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
231:20:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
205:19:52, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
708:Good job Zerida! :) Cheers.
436:Identity as Native Egyptians
144:Place of the Spirit of Ptaḥ
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102:11:57, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
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