Talk:Costa Concordia/Archive 1

4310:

The anchors were found almost directly under the bow with lots of loose chain around them, i.e. they were dropped AFTER the ship had already grounded, resulting in an almost immediate starboard list. Although the chains had no tension on them, meaning they actually did nothing, the Captains intention MAY have been to keep the ship from sliding into deep water. The ship floated with only bare minimum power for over an hour, with ONLY rudder control to counteract any wind/current movement. During this time it was already listing 20 degrees & sinking. I'm not sure if the watertight doors would even close at 20 degrees, nor am I sure if they COULD be closed with no main power at all. Would that have even mattered with a 160 feet long gash, 1/5th of the whole waterline length of the vessel, up to 26 feet tall. The ship was dieing, the engine room was the FIRST major section which almost instantly flooded, killing the generators & engines. How do you plan on transferring fuel fast enough to equalize the helluvalot-per-minute of water gushing through 160 feet of the other side .... hand-pumps or battery-power? The CHIEF of the Italian Coast Guard stated that only a fortunate coincidence of wind, tide, & current grounded the ship near shore, rather than it sinking completely in deep water. But you're gonna keep it out there, 2/3d's mile from shore, at night, in January-cold water, with near 1/2 of lifeboats unlaunchable, and MAYBE 10% normal power, while your boat with 4,200+ souls on board is sinking like a fish with a cannon-hole in it's middle. Rather than 32 presumed dead & 64 injured, your plan will most likely result in at least 10X that many .... or worse. Would you stay inside your 1-story home on the coast during a Cat.5 hurricane IF you had over an hour to drive your bicycle to the top of a nearby hill? Might ought to re-read those manuals I mentioned at first. While you may have been great at welding, I'm not sure you quite understand the do's & don'ts of a near-dead sinking boat.

2511:

Empire" (again, whatever term you want to use)articles, that do include the term holed. A Reuters article which includes the term is not a sign that it is universally known, as that could have simply been submitted by a British news agency, with many of the people reading the article puzzled by just exactly what they mean by the term holed means. I also enjoy when people start making statements along the lines of "that line of reasoning is simply not.... elementary logic dictates..." etc. That often means their basic argument is running out of steam. If you can't figure it out I will spell it out for you- since your argument is that it is a term used outside of the "British Empire", you are not doing anything to prove that point by listing a British source. If you were able to list a number of sources from American for example, that used the term holed, that would be a smoking gun to prove that holed is in fact used universally outside of "british empire" circles, and that I am wrong. I really hope you were just sparring and didn't fail to realize that basic fact. I understand that it is a common term for you and you cannot probably imagine how someone wouldn't know what it means, but that really is the case. There's going to be a large contingent of people reading this article who stop and say huh? and they might figure out what it means, or they might not, and keep slogging through the article.

2378:

aground and capsized", which by the way was the original wording of that passage. You are technically correct in adding that term, but there are many details of the crash that are also highly relevant that have been left out of that summary paragraph. Your argument is that "respectable news sources stated that xyz event occurred during this incident, therefore I'm justified putting the fact into this opening paragraph." There are a lot of details omitted from that paragraph for the sake of brevity. I could say, "the captain was seen drinking at the bar earlier in the evening, bullocksed the turn, the ship ran aground, hitting a rock, was holed, water filled the ship, and then capsized", though "ran aground and capsized" is not incorrect, and in the spirit of an introductory paragraph which only briefly touches on the accident, referring readers to the full costa concordia disaster article for further info, I think it does the job.

3021:

struck a rock, had a huge gash torn, sailed to shallow water, grounded deliberately, and came to rest on the bottom, capsized, mostly out of the water, in shallow water. I have no particular fondness for the word "holed" but can't think of anything better for a section heading. So I propose (and will implement) "Holed and grounded 2012" ("January" is unnecessary for an encyclopaedia article). This is accurate and short. If anyone can find a better word than holed, great, but it does need to be accurate. "Damaged and grounded 2012" is correct but vague. "Holed, flooded, and grounded 2012" is a fairly complete description, a bit long.

3471:, so refloating and righting her will be difficult especially in shallow water. For sure the ship will be removed, but will it be in one piece? Surely that will be something that we will add to this article when it happens! If they can remove the ship more or less intact, the damage can quite likely be repaired and the ship can be returned to service after a long stay at a shipyard. As for the willingness of the passengers to return, this is not the first ship that has been involved in a serious incident. If there will be long-lasting effects, they will affect to the whole cruise industry. 4294:

control teams from getting to the damage area. since they can't get there, they can't seal the watertight doors and stop the flooding. the increse in weight compounded the problem. What the captain needed to do was before he lost power was get into deep water. He wouldn't have rolled, the flooding would have been lessened because the crew would have been able to do thier job. Fuel could have been transfered to the other side of the ship to counteract the extra weight. They may have sank but it would have taken hours and everone could have made a nice orderly evacuation.

2582:"fact" that the ship was holed (or had an aperture forcibly and unwantedly created in its hull due to impact with geological material of significant hardness concealed below water level but above the draught of the ship, or whatever wording) is highly significant; the holing, followed by displacement of water that entered through the bulkhead system, caused heeling (look up heeling if you don't know what it means) first in the direction of the hole, then heeling to the point of capsize in the opposite direction. 2458:"Citing The Telegraph, a British news source, only proves that point." That "reasoning" is nonsense, and against elementary logic. The fact that the word is used in Britain does not disprove that it is used anywhere else. I cited sources in Britain, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, large English-speaking countries. I don't want to trawl through references from India, South Africa, and so on, but here is an additional reference, this time from the United States, a newspaper headline from the New York Times: 778:

point. This is the "reef" circled by Repubblica on its chart — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.129.75.214 (talk) 03:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC) Because la Republica is reporting, as confirmed by the WSJ, that the impact rock is indeed the outcrop "Le scole", which is South of Giglio Porto, I have now entered that info into to main text of the article, with both citations. I have not yet "corrected" the article's assertion that "this reef was... north of...the harbour" Steve-O

3682:. There were 2 options considered in order to remove the Costa Concordia from the site. One would have been to cut her into 15 pieces and transport those pieces to salvage companies. It is believed that the process of cutting the ship to pieces will be a difficult task. Furthermore, the process of cutting her to pieces will litter lots of hazardous materials like debris and fluids from the ships systems into the surrounding sea, damaging the local eco system. 31: 4409:

the Propulsion section. This would explain how the captain could claim that he maneuvered the ship onto the shoreline where it now lies. If the Concordia had auxiliary or emergency electrical power, it would also have had some maneuvering capability. It hardly seems likely that a lucky combination of winds and tides would have placed the ship onshore. Grounding the ship is what saved so many lives and the article should reflect this.

3686:

position while they are in action. With this setup the Costa Concordia will be tilted back into an upright position without moving her closer to the deep water where she would simply sink. Then the hull breaches will be sealed where it is necessary in order to refloat the Costa Concordia and keep her in level. When she is stable enough, she will be moved either to a salvage company or to a dock where she can be repaired. --

4226:

together generate about 75,6 MW(e) electrical power and on the other side we have two "electric" propellers, each 21 MW(e), without any sourcing preference from the 6 power plants. If you write 6 × Wärtsilä 12V46C; 75,600 kilowatts (101,400 hp) combined and propulsion Diesel-electric; two shafts (2 × 21 MW), it looks like on board the Costa Concordia we had a total of 75,6 + 42 = 117,6 MW ...--

2278:(This para, and a few other additions, inserted later) Quoted text here is from an edit summary justifying deletion of "holed" from the article: 16:55, 22 January 2012‎ Steves615 "The problem with 'holed" is that it does not have meaning to non-British readers and only a handful of UK news articles describe the vessel as such. Hull damage can be inferred by listing/sinking after the grounding" 4048:

the recent disaster. The sentence simply reports and/or implies a view of the possibility such an event in the context of maratime culture, and does so in an unsensational manner. I am inclined, therefore, to leave it as read on the basis of its encyclopaedic value which demonstrates the cultural significance of the unbroken bottle in terms of 'maratime superstition', as stated.

3316: 4891: 4730: 91: 3138:" ... I consider to be the initial event that led to the disaster". That's where I disagree; and I think the facts have become clear and confirm that grounding was not the cause. Initial reports spoke of "grounding"; this may be why so many people prefer the term. It later became clear that the ship had hit rocks ( 2471:"that term appears nowhere in the Costa Concordia Disaster article itself. The intro paragraph for that article simply says 'partially sank... after hitting a reef... and running aground'." That article could do with attention; holing is relevant, and it wasn't a reef (but I don't think that point is so important). 305:

news release pages are in English. There are various versions, with some differing information (contact phone numbers) corresponding to different regions. Some page versions do not list phone numbers. As time passes there may be a possibility that some pages won't update, or will update later than others.

4309:

Did they have manuals in the Navy which you had to read to improve your job skills? The Army did through my entire 13+ year career, called Technical Manuals & Field Manuals. The reason I ask is because of the many inconsistencies in your remark, as compared with the wording of the article itself.

4257:

Yes for someone who knows how the diesel alectric arrangement works or someone with basic electrical knowledge (who can differanciate between "generator" and "load"), the description is ok. But for the rest of us it is not clear as printed. Since there is an "and" between the 75,6MW and the 2*21MW in

4225:

Britmax, diesel-electric is a transmission system that includes a diesel engine coupled to an electrical generator. Writing the power value of a diesel-electric system implies a power plant of the same power. On the Costa Concordia there is no such relation. On the one side, we have power plants that

3610:

As far as I know RINA does not have a public online database like e.g. DNV, so finding detailed information might be difficult. As for general arrangements or steel drawings, I seriously doubt that they can be found online. Doesn't hurt to look, though. You can probably find some information from the

3088:

Go ahead and change Holed to Grounded or whatever (I had already replaced "sinking"); for the record I have no objections at all, except to "sinking" or similar (though I continue personally to prefer holed & grounded). If the section is linked, an anchor could be added (very appropriate for this

2568:

As the originator of this thread and in answer to Steves615, while I've documented the word "holed" (whose meaning is really very obvious) around the Anglophone world I don't think the word used matters in the least and don't myself see any point in discussion further. Certainly wording understood by

1166:

sinking"? As for "sanitizing", I would also try to avoid using words that do not accurately describe what happened. Personally I will refer to the ship as "wreck" once it is certain that it can not be saved. We'll probably get some sources regarding the issue once the passengers have been rescued and

1113:

I think sinking could be a correct term. It is not run around, that is significantly less worse. A ship run around is not materially unable to float but rather hung up on the ground or reef etc. If it was wrecked in deeper water and just the funnels were visible then most people would say it sunk.

4380:

I admit removing the length between perpendiculars might have been a mistake, but in my opinion the distance from the fore of the stem to the rudder axis is more or less meaningless information for most people. What they need to know is the length of the ship, not some rule-based measurements. After

3514:

Furthermore, the successfully refurbished Cole was a warship, built for twice the speed and much worse open ocean meteo conditions and to take battle damage. The structure of a giga-cruise-liner cannot be compared to a ship of the line! (Not to mention the difference between the quality and strenght

3265:

It the tore in the hull is really 60 meters long, as reported, then it must have been a high-speed or high-powered collision. The keel is probably wrecked and the ship must be at least cut in half or three parts, before the individual pieces can be refloated and towed away for the breakers. If fact,

3020:

Now I don't think it's right to say that the ship is at the moment sunken. It may be technically correct (I'm not sure) as it's holed and rested on the bottom, but to someone scanning headings it looks as if it's down deep. I would say that the correct description (too long for a heading) is that it

3016:

I start a second section so nobody has to read through the discussion of whether the word is appropriate or not. The issue now is that "Holed by rock in 2012" has been replaced by "Sinking 2012". This heading is obviously a cause of trouble; it's been through several headings since the initial "2012

2585:

By the way, purely in passing and as a curiosity with no incidence on the article, you seem to be striving to find an expression for the English-speaking world that is not part of what you consider the UK (i.e., not Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc.; "what do you want to call it? British

2377:

Besides the fact that most readers not from the UK/NZ/AUS look at the term "was holed" and are puzzled by exactly what it means, a primary reason for eliminating the phrase is brevity of the intro paragraph, and style. "Ran aground, was holed, and capsized" is a little more awkward than simply "ran

879:

True, but it is routine to tow a ship that has grounded off the bottom or a sand bar. If you call on the radio "I have grounded on a sandbar" it is not an emergency. The vessel was materially wrecked and the Captian steered her into shallow water. Agound with an 80 degree list is much better than

304:

There doesn't seem to be a central list (like on a Costa-dedicated corporate site) but there are various versions in different languages. The news releases are available in English, Italian, Spanish, French, German, and Portuguese. Other regions may have websites in other languages, but the accident

4293:

in the Navy and damage control is something I'm well versed. Other than the obvious one of going to close to shore the mistakes were many. Dropping the anchor was a HUGE mistake. By trapping them in the shallow water the ship hit bottom and rolled on its round bottom. This roll prevented the damage

4047:

I agree concerning the superstitious focus of this sentence, noting that, in terms of maratime culture, the unbroken bottle is significant (at least for some). Importantly, the statement does indicate it was an 'omen' and does not suggest the validity of any direct metaphysical causal connection to

3706:

The ship still exists today, and no decision to scrap her has been made. Even should the decision to scrap her be made the ship will continue to exist until this is done. Therefore past tense will not be suitable for the forseeable future, and anything that implies that the ship has ceased to exist

3551:

Can anyone find details of the design of this ship, or any of its sister ships? It would help Wiki users understand some of the issues relating to this incident by reference to hull profiles, schematics of the construction (eg: bracing, ribs, use of watertight chambers, even hull thickness). I am

3111:

Someone would just change it back, so I'd rather discuss it here first. I propose "2012 grounding" because I consider that to be the initial event that led to the disaster. The ship was holed as a result of the grounding and subsequently partially sank close to the shore. Although I understand what

2581:

elicits over 100 uses of "holed". I remind you of your words: "If you were able to list a number of sources from American for example, that used the term holed, that would be a smoking gun to prove that holed is in fact used universally outside of "british empire" circles, and that I am wrong". The

2518:

From what I know of it now, holed might be a very apt word to describe what happened. You just have to realize that not everyone knows what it means. It may be technically correct, but so is the current statement without the word holed, and it doesn't introduce the potential for confusion depending

2502:

My assurance comes as a human being living in the United States who has never heard that usage in my life. That term confused me when I read it, and I'm sure many others were as well. The facts that support me are your inability to find any substantial references that use that term outside of the-

2385:

The original wording of that article did not include the term ",was holed,". I realize that you saw an opportunity where a particular term you know seems to fit in well, but the wording as it had been written is not incorrect from a technical standpoint, and that term is not universally known so it

2381:

Finally, that term appears nowhere in the Costa Concordia Disaster article itself. The intro paragraph for that article simply says "partially sank... after hitting a reef... and running aground". I don't think anyone reading that article would be confused as to why the ship started sinking after

2207:

This was a 21st century ship, it is all about technology, but this is not technology of mass consumers. An expert of big modern ship should tell what kind of technology and systems are installed to prevent navigation accidents. Sonar (for detecting other ships or obstacles at the sea level), ECDIS

1764:

I'd say the displacement is around 50,000 tons based on the main dimensions (Lwl ~270m * B 35.5m * T 8.2m * rho_w 1.025 kg/m3 * lambda ~1.006 * C_B ~0.6 approx 49000 tons). The block coefficient is probably larger, so 51k tons seems reasonable. As for QE2, I think the result would have been more or

796:

I have now removed the sentence "This reef was about 800 metres (870 yd) north of the entrance to the harbour of Giglio." It had no direct footnote and the next footnote, presumably by the same editor, cited la Repubblica, a newspaper which, as I cited, states the the "reef" was "le scole" which is

4408:

Most large ships have auxiliary propulsion that allows them to be docked without the need for tugboats. For docking operations main propulsion is shut down and auxiliary thrusters are used to maneuver the ship sideways against a pier. If the Concordia had this capability, it should be described in

4332:

I agree. If your boat is sinking like a brick your only chance is to ground it on shallow water. I have done it on my 32ft yacht back in 2001 and I saved myself, my passenger, my property and the shoreline from pollution. The same applies to any vessel of any size unless water intake is controlled

4162:

For my mind this ship is/has sunk (not, 'partial') in that it is totally disabled and no longer afloat. For me, the term 'sunk' relates to its loss of capacity to perform the task for which it was designed because it is no longer retains any bouyancy and does not have any capacity to recover that

3053:

It's not that big a problem as long as there are no incoming section links. Once they decide to write her off, we can call the section "Wrecked 2012". Should they decide to salvage her, then we should probably stick with "Grounded 2012". For now, let's just leave the section title alone. There are

1304:

The article distinctly said the reef was 800 m north and the vessel continued for another 1 km north of the harbour. What is this nonsense about the distance being 800 "yds" and 1000 "yds"? Why are you changing the quoted distances? Since it was officially measured in metres, leave it that way,

4444:

Maneuvering thrusters are not usually called "auxiliary propulsion". Also, the main propulsion is not "shut down" during docking since that's the only way to move the ship or maintain position in the longitudinal direction. Also^2, the power requirements of the bow and stern thrusters are so high

2549:

I am an American who has only ever lived in the United States and I can assure that "holed" is the correct and common word in American usage for this situation. I have never heard of an American who is unfamiliar with this term, which is the normal term that would be used in the United States for

1744:

The 51k tons of displacement in the data table looks excessive to me. Wasn't the 250 meter long Bismarck circa 50k tons, clad in 33cm thick Wotan armour and wide as a pregnant hippo, with four massive and a dozen smaller gun turrets on top? There the windguards were probably thicker than the hull

1315:

Because la Republica is reporting, as confirmed by the WSJ, that the impact rock is indeed the outcrop "Le scole", which is South of Giglio Porto, I have now entered that info into to main text of the article, with both citations. I have not yet "corrected" the article's assertion that "this reef

1277:

The Wikepedia description of the post-rock course seems impossible How can the ship be 800 yds North, then go another 1000 North and still be "just North"? Perhaps the "reef" was the one 800 yds South (not North) of the harbour? There are rocks SOUTH of the harbor that could have been the impact

1114:

If a ship is wrecked due to taking on too much water, hasn't it sunk because it was no longer floating? Even if it lying on its side? And this ship is certainly wrecked. The side of the ship lacks the structure to support the ship. The nonvisible side will certainly be crushed beyond repair.

777:

4087:

I am inclined to agree, Britmax, as the ships that sank list would be endless. Holed and capsized as you suggest, along with the filters of non-wartime, non-sail, and passenger vessels only would allow for reasonable comparison. Even then, post 1900 could be a reasonable limit, but that is quite

2648:

Yes, diesel-electric with traditional shafts. Since the total installed power is around 75 MW (six Wärtsilä 12V46 medium-speed engines), I would assume that the rating of the propulsion motors is closer to 21 than 34 MW, but of course we need a source for that. Unfortunately RINA does not have a

2510:

stretches. You find one NYT article from some unknown time written by an unknown news agency as proof that it is somehow used commonly in this country. I can show you tens of thousands of articles on the concordia that never once use the term holed, and I'll show you a couple dozen of "British

1990:

At minimum, it will take weeks to refloat the ship and get it off the bottom. The gash along the side would have to be fixed by underwater divers. Then it will need to be towed to dry dock, have the gash fixed plus all damage from resting on its side. Anything electrical will have to be fixed

634:

that deletion nominations should have any affect on proper summary style. The deletion nomination is frivolous and this sort of insisting that we duplicate effort is not helping to build an encyclopedia. If your deletion nomination for the largest passenger ship grounding in history with 14,200+

4006:

Not yet. The ship is still largely intact. As I understand it, the plan is to refloat her before a decision is made on repair/scrapping. Of course, it is entirely possible that she will sink at some point in the future. Until that happens, or she is scrapped, we stick with the present tense per

3685:

The other now seemingly preferred option is to weld so called "A-blocks" to the Costa Concordia and install hydraulic cylinders on the coast next to the ship. More hydraulic cylinders will be on the other side of the ship on a ponton which itself will be anchored so it can hold the cylinders in

3500:

The ship will probably be written off and scrapped, so the cruise line can cash in on the insurance money fast, for example to cover compensation and lawsuit expenses. On the other hand, the insurance company does not want to object too much and drag leg, so other customers having big insurance

1631:

That's obviously an error. Could someone check the draft from a reliable source and remove the incorrect one? Passenger ships rarely have more than one operating draught since they don't take that much "cargo" and the changes in draft due to consumed fuel etc. are usually compensated with water

4241:

What do you mean? The "installed power" lists the combined rating of the ship's power plant (six Wärtsilä generating sets), which provides power for all shipboard systems, and the "propulsion" lists the output of the two electrical motors turning the propellers. There is a clear distinction of

2569:

educated speakers in most Anglophone locations should be used, though from postings here the USA seems to use "holed". (My US example wasn't contrived, just the first I found; there are plenty of examples. I simply searched for "ship holed" on the New York Times website and selected an article

832:

A ship is said to founder when it fills with water and sinks. This ship meets this definition, but since it is in shallow water it is only partially submerged. The ship is not grounded as it is on it side. This ship could also be declared a wreck. Note that it is not a ship anymore since it

3529:

Yeah, naval ships and cruise ships can not be compared. The latter are generally much more complex and more difficult to design, as economical aspects must also be taken into account. As for US built quality, you might want to take a look at the most recent cruise ship your yards attempted to

3220:

can disagree with: "Allision and holing 2012". Example of use, 2007 report: "SAN FRANCISCO, Calf. – The Coast Guard Sector San Francisco responded to the Ferry Vessel Royal Prince of the Red & White Fleet after the vessel allided with some rocks south west of Alcatraz a little after 3pm."

2514:

If this same discussion were happening around the word pram, what would it take to convince you that there are a lot of English speakers out there who would have no idea what pram means? Did you even know that already or did you think everyone knew what a pram was? If I found 10,000 British

2033:

Only present tense is appropriate. It still "has 1,500 cabins"! At some point it will be wrecked, at which point the tense should change. Don't go thinking anyone will salvage this boat by the way. It can't be "towed to dry dock and fixed". The superstructure is beyond repair. Even if it were

2726:

IEC 60092 is more specific just to propulsion and electric system on ship in general. The ship needs a clearance or authorization to seal and stay in the dock, and there are inspections to obtain it, and to be inscribed in Lloyd's register, RINA, DNV, etc. they are safety rules, prescription

2332:

We're speaking of holing letting water in, not hull damage in general. That it can be inferred is not true: if a vessel capsizes, water may enter through apertures above the waterline (even without capsizing this can happen, but it's doubtful that water would have entered through gunports or

2286:

Are you sure, it seems obvious that "holed" means having a hole made in it? I've checked a few non-British dictionaries (all US I'm afraid, no others in my normal reference places). Hole as a verb appears in American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language and Webster's 4th. Examples of

4071:

We now seem to have a "See also" list of random ships that sank, when the only thing they have in common with this one is that they were ships, and sank. Are we to link the Concordia to any other ship that happened to sink, or limit the list to those that were holed and capsized? Or what?

2309:

If it's indeed a British-only term, I didn't know that and thought it was general maritime usage; what terms are used in other English-speaking areas? This point in no way justifies deleting the fact; it should be worded more appropriately. I can't do it as I don't know usage everywhere.

341:

Page for (English-speaking) Malta and South Africa and (non-English speaking) Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Egypt, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Morocco, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey, and

3161:. I don't insist on the word, but I can't find a short accurate alternative. It's all very well to use a description of "something that makes the holes" instead; that was done in body text, but fit that in a section heading! Maybe "Hit rocks 2012"? "On rocks 2012"? "Hull breached 2012"? 2057:

is relevant, but will open that one up to discussion. If any editor has any strong opinions on those ships listed, or feels that there are better candidates for inclusion, please say so. The section should be kept as short as possible (say 4 max) as we can't list every shipwreck here.

2503:

what do you want to call it? British Empire? Have a field day picking my definition apart but the fact is you all share a common cultural and linguistic origin, I'm not going to spend the time here coming up with the perfect term to describe that sphere of linguistic influence.

3556:(showing engine placement, use of electric thrusters, and backup systems) would help temper some of the more extreme speculation. Do shipbuilders publish a list of the electronic navigation aids installed on these craft? Links to sources of information would be sufficient 3629:

The ship is a write-off, according to some analyst from Credit Suisse ? Seriously, those discredited racketeers who have almost wrecked the world economy twice, are the go-to experts on large ship repair now ? Cannot a reference be found which is more credible than a

2447:"And by UK I mean UK, Australia, and New Zealand." This is the Lewis Carroll school of linguistics: "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less." Virtually all Anglophone countries are such due to past association with Britain - how do 1157:

But then again grounding was the initial event that caused the incident. Evacuation was already well underway when the ship settled to the bottom without catastrophic consequences. If there was a fire on a passenger ship and it sank afterwards, would the article be named

3290:, you may think that it can't be refloated. I have no knowledge, but imagine that it'll be eventually cut up & removed for scrap value, to reduce any further potential environmental damage, stop people putting themselves at risk by visiting or trying to board the 1888:

that's a fascinating trace. Assuming the arrowheads represent regular updates, it looks to me as if a couple of readings have been removed - presumably for legal reasons. They are precisely the ones that would show how close the vessel actually came to the headland.

2515:

articles on prams, 50,000 American articles on baby carriages, and you found 2 articles from America newspapers that included the word "pram", would you then use that as proof that all Americans know what a pram is? That is really the argument we're having here.

2727:,specifications, and standards which apply in this case to the design, manufacturing, inspections and authorization processes. The power is generated with 6 diesel genrators with medium voltage in this case (6.6 or 11kV, not sure) and then driven to 2 engines. 909:") is actually a significant problem. It smacks of an article that has been processed through new-speak in order to remove commercially harmful language. It's really perfectly simple: this ship has sunk and is now a wreck. Please update the article accordingly. 1935:

Agreed. She still very much exists, so everything should still be in the present tense. If in the future she were to be scrapped, that would be the appropriate time to make these changes to past tense. I just changed a few occurrences back to present tense.

2904:

Thank you, I've added this information. I thought it would be interesting because some of the initial reports blamed the disaster on loss of propulsion, but more recent reports seem to be pointing to navigational errors. Still I think it's a good addition.

1748:

BTW, it would be interesting to know if a sturdier north atlantic ship, like the QE2 could have survived the same rock-scraping event? Reportedly the QE2 hull plating is 28mm steel, app. double of what's usual on Med-sea and Caribbean giant cruise ships.

2608:

This issue seems to be resolved: all concerned seem to agree that the holing is relevant. The use of the single word "holing" is objected to, but I personally don't think it matters (though I always prefer a single word to a phrase that can replace it).

282:"before a lifeboat drill starting in Savona and visiting Marseille, Barcelona, Palma, Tunis, and Palermo." This makes it sound as if the drill lasted the whole time the ship traveled between these locations. If that's not what you meant, reword this. 1560: 1245:

which could possibly be shallow enough. I guess we'll have to wait to find out. But, don't we know that many passengers were already disembarked on Giglio at the time of the accident, right? That implies she was at least close to port already.

4202:

HiLo48, my apologies, but I have corrected my OP to better reflect my query. With respect to you and your reply I shall refrain from responding to yours above in order to allow you to make any changes to your original response, if you wish.

4027:

Is it an encyclopaedic information? Furthermore, do we put such informations in articles about ships when the bottle failed to break but the ship would not had any trouble or when the bottle does break but the ship would had some trouble?

3153:"holed" is used extensively worldwide, though people are less aware of ships and nautical terms than in the past; references in a previous section of this discussion confirm this (including scores of references in a US Naval site; Google 2417:

written in British English. There may be some variety of American English (though clearly not the one used by news organisations or described in dictionaries) which doesn't use 'hole' as a verb but that's not the variety of English used

2121:

Did his ship have a proper citadel? A fully enclosed, thickly armoured box, that includes all critical machinery, bilge pumps, the central control room, comms, fuel for at least a few days, enough personnel to do drainage work, etc.?

1991:

along with all water damage. It might be fair to say it "was" a cruise ship. It may be a cruiseship in the future, but it is not now since it materially cannot serve its purpose of taking on passengers since it is 40% underwater.

1422:). I appreciate that there is a map of the port area showing where the ship came to grief, but the map I added showed the location of the wreck in relation to Italy. Should the map be reinstated or not? What do other editors think? 2373:

The fact that a term is in a dictionary does not mean it universally appears in common usage. "Lorry" appears in the Merriam Webster dictionary, and I'm sure I could find an American article written about a lorry somewhere.

3266:

these ships were originally built from modules, two or three of them, each one containing dozens of pre-fabricated "lego blocks" of several hundred tons of weight. Maybe the wreck should be left where it is to serve as a

3012:

There was recently a long discussion about the word "holed" in the text; to sum it up, one editor objected to it, others thought it OK; the outcome was that acceptable (and arguably better) alternative wording was found.

864:

in 2008. I wouldn't worry to much about such details at the moment, they can be sorted out once an official announcement is made as to the fate of the ship. For now, let's keep the article updated from reliable sources.

1745:

plating of the Costa. What could displace 51k tons of water on Costa, when the pre-fabricated cabins are mostly made of plaster and light metal frame and most of the interior space is indeed the empty space of atriums?

805:

So I get that the ship ran aground, but for all intents and purposes, she sank, and is now a wreck. If she had drifted into slightly deeper water, there would be nothing left to see. I think we can compare Concordia to

797:

south, not north, of the harbour. With respect, I let stand that editor's other statements about post-reef maneuvering, which now make more sense. Time will tell and this will all be much more certain in a day or two.

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portholes in this case!) Plausible scenario: ship grounds without damage, capsizes to lie on its side, water enters, ship is flooded and set to sink if water becomes deeper (tide, or slip into deeper water).

3424:

was quite extensive, yet it was repaired, and has since returned to service. The damage to this vessel looks very similar in nature. The real question is; Who would want to sail on the vessel after it was

2091:

See alsos should be limited to links that would be included in text of a comprehensive article on the subject. The subject here is the ship. None of these other vessels has anything to do with this ship.

1212:

The grounding area looks like it's marked as 6 fathoms (11 meters) but navigable (white) which generally means no reefs or rocks. Does anyone know whether she ran aground where she lies, or somewhere else?

4580:

This is written in the vernacular as opposed to an encyclopedic format. "...in recent memory..." and "She is..." is terrible prose. Please re-write this as a proper article; it reads more like fiction.

2533:

I've mentioned the hole being torn in the hull in universally understandable, "Americanized" terms. Hopefully this will be enough for everyone that wanted the hole mentioned, and we can just move on.

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Page for (English-speaking) India, Malaysia, Mauritius, New Zealand, Philippines, Singapore, and Sri Lanka and (non-English speaking) Indonesia, Oman, Qatar, Thailand, United Arab Emirates, and Vietnam

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and redirect it back to here for now. Also, if the details of the shipwreck continue to expand, the content can be pasted in there (since this article is primarily about the boat, not the accident).

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as per our infobox guide. Also, non-relevant fields may be removed (the ship had no ramps, just like it had no sail plan or ice class, or aircraft facilities!), not to mention that there isn't even a

3142:

grounded on them; if she had grounded her bottom, not side, would have been breached. The damage is consistent with sideswiping a rocky ledge just underwater). The rocks tore a hole, water rushed in.

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The "13 months" stated above is wrong. More like three weeks, if the given footnote reference (which incidentally does not cite Smit) is to be believed. This condensed re-write needs re-tweaking

1976:

If the ship is declared constructive total loss, I think we could safely change the tense from present to past. Until then it's still a ship that can potentially be saved and put back to service.

3312:. It's not our job to speculate on what may and may not happen, merely to report what reliable sources say has happened. If ya ask me, a bit of filler and some duck tape and she'll be a good-'un 301:

Here is a listing of the Costa Cruises news release pages about the Concordia, by language. The non-English languages are posted to assist with Knowledge (XXG) work on other language Wikipedias.

4260:"6 × Wärtsilä 12V46C; 75,600 kilowatts (101,400 hp) combined, driving two electric motors of 2*21MW for main propulsion. The remaining 33,6MW services all other electrical needs of the ship.". 2477:

Anyway, let's see what others say. By the way, I'm almost certain the ship didn't hit a reef (although this is widely reported due probably to a misunderstanding of what a reef is), but rocks.

4333:

AND you reasonably expect to keep on over it. This certainly wasn't the case to the Concordia, she was dead on the water and you can't scoop water out of such a vessel with your bare hands.

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If yes, was the citadel breached in the collision? I think it is rule that a ship must float for at least 24 hours if the citadel is intact, no matter how much the other spaces are flooded.

3146:, not grounded, otherwise she could not have sailed away. Then she was sailed to shallow water and grounded (perhaps deliberately; in any event if she hadn't been grounded she'd have sunk). 1037:

Are Google search results generally accepted as a benchmark when deciding which wording to use in the article, especially in today's world where everyone can say anything about everything?

4626:

On the other hand, the article was first written using "it". I thought that was supposed to count for something as well? At the moment the article uses both, which looks a bit rubbish. --

2183:

While I knew about "safe rooms", I didn't know that they were referred to as "citadels". Still, they don't prevent the ship from sinking. I'm not sure if 82.131.210.163 was even serious.

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Summary: some people don't like "holed", not because it's inaccurate, regional, or never used, but because they personally are not familiar with it. I don't like "grounded" because it's

2586:

Empire?"); could I suggest that you mean "the United States"? While the US was, like the others, associated with the British Empire, my guess is that that's what you're trying to say.

1650:

Draft is the American spelling, draught is the English spelling. I've removed the incorrect (unsourced) measurement, leaving the measurement sourced from the Fakta om Fartyg website.

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that emergency power alone is not enough to turn them on - you need the main generators to run them, and in that case you should've had at least some of the main propulsion as well.

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Might be good to add more detail on the propulsion system. It's apparently diesel-electric, with two motors of either 21 or 34 MW each, but I'm having trouble finding a good source.

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because with 14,200 Google News hits already and the largest cruise liner grounding in history, I believe it merits its own article and the section in this one should be reduced to

3847:

Fakta om Fartyg is a reliable source as far as I'm aware. Could it be that other sources are quoting what Costa Cruises say the ship will do, rather than what it actually will do?

2053:

This section has been removed twice now. As far as I can tell, the section is relevant, and three of the vessels mentioned are of direct relevance to this loss. I'm not sure that

3112:"holing" and "holed" mean, I have never seen them being used to describe this kind of accident — there's always something that makes the holes, and that has been used instead. 4847:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120116220935/http://www.wxyz.com:80/dpp/homepage_showcase/coast-guard-cruise-ship-runs-aground-off-italy-3-bodies-found-helicopters-rescue-others

3070:

If we're going to stick with "Grounded 2012" or something like that, should we also change the heading of the first incident to "Bow damage 2008" or even "Bow damaged 2008"?

4195:". That's accurate. Why not say that? Or something similar? We are not restricted to simple, one syllable words ..... unsigned post on 15 July 2012‎ by HiLo48 (per Benyoch) 4191:" cannot be used because it's obvious that to many people, and outside the context of this incident, it means covered by water. You described the state of the ship as " 3679: 3474:

Anyway, until official sources give a statement regarding the future of the vessel, the article should treat her "as is, where is" and not begin to speculate, as per

2760:

That's what I thought. I guess Kendall-K1 was asking for more information about this ship, i.e. the exact specifications of the generators and the propulsion system.

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say the ship is sinking. Considering the controversial nature, we shouldn't say the ship has sunk (which has the connotation of the ship's being irretrievable) until

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https://web.archive.org/web/20150709070321/http://www.italiantrivelle.com:80/it-blog/equipment-engineering/air-powered-drilling-machine-to-drill-under-water-598.html

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By the way, "Grounded 2012" was used when news reports said she had grounded, but it later became clear that the cause of the disaster was holing, not grounding. We

3036:. I suggest that the ultimate heading should be either "Holed and scrapped 2012" or "Holed and sunk 2012" (or "Sunk 2012"), but it's a little premature to choose. 2459: 1139:

also doesn't appear anywhere in the body text (it appears in a caption, and in links). This looks like an attempt to sanitise the article. This is clearly not a

2275:

It's highly relevant that the ship was holed. Water flowed in through the hole and due to the layout of bulkheads caused the ship to list to the opposite side.

2474:"I think it does the job." Wasn't the idea behind Knowledge (XXG) that it was to do with verifiable information and so on, not a soapbox for people's opinions? 2943:

http://www05.abb.com/global/scot/scot293.nsf/veritydisplay/c348ae87dd99ce5cc12574e30023fede/$ file/Maritime%20El%20Installations%20and%20DE%20Propulsion.pdf

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quotes Smit (salvagers) as saying it looks like a total constructive loss; Smit is more reliable than a banker, but the source doesn't look too reliable.

2370:

I assure you it is a UK thing. And by UK I mean UK, Australia, and New Zealand. Citing The Telegraph, a British news source, only proves that point.

74:

I think the current news notice needs to be added to this article. I would do it myself but I am not sure where to even begin looking for the right code

3943:

I am concerned that this section is becoming larger than it should be in the light of the incident's own article. Do other editors feel the same way?

3515:

of Bethlem Works made US structural steel and italo-russian steel, which any unfortunate FIAT 124 owner can attest to, versus those F150 rednecks...)

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https://web.archive.org/web/20120418212843/http://www.nypost.com:80/p/news/international/three_coast_several_missing_after_Ztwzh4pOyI28VzooFByOnM/2

1865: 857:

You are correct in that if it had been deeper water the ship would have sunk. Technically, she is aground with an 80° list. A similar situation to

4534:

be made gender neutral, but it doesn't have to be so. There's no good reason to change the article from the established, so leave as is, I say.

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field in the general characteristics section. Why do such minor stylistic fixes need to wait for "another round of editing in the coming months"?

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article that states "The 114,500-ton Costa Concordia is the largest ship ever to sink." I'm no longer opposed to including "sink" in the article.

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holed, there are respectable references. As it happens there are non-British ones; I will add one. There are also pictures of a massive hole.

1349:

Is it really necessary to point out it was Friday the 13th so explicitly? It seems rather sensationalist to flaunt superstition in this way.

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Take your point about bankers, though the way rescuers are drilling all through the ship doesn't make me optimistic about the ship's future.

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public database. Any change of finding maritime publications from the time the ship was delivered? The basic data should be in one of them.

951:

My mistake, but "wreck" is already established in the article. I just object to saying the ship has sunk when sources have not reported it.

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I know people call boats she/her, etc but it's an inanimate object, and there's not really a reason for it, can it be made gender neutral?

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some additional details, such as engine type, but the edit got lost in the process. If someone wants to re-add them, feel free to do that.

2465:

When I added to the article that the ship was holed I referenced it properly. Sourced information shouldn't be deleted without good reason.

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Agree. Cb likely .65 or more. QE2 perhaps finer for speed which would mean lower dp if the product of underwater dimensions is the same.

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is a news radio agency report current within the hour and quotes the Governor of Grossetto saying the missing persons count is down to 41.

3243:

It will be refloated surely ? Even if its an insurance write off to the current owner, surely someone will refloat it and repair it...

1189:. And yet the Herald while on its side was only partially submerged. MS Riverdance is not a good alternative as that ship was beached. - 579: 330:

Page for (English-speaking) USA, Canada and (non-English speaking) Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Mexico, Panama, and Venezuela

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If anyone has an opinion on whether the article should, or should not, report that the ship was holed when it ran aground, please say so

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AFAICT, she hit a "sandbar" some distance off the island and attempted to reach port there. All will become clear in the next few days.

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But I ll leave this edit to others because this specific article suffers from biased editors who keep on reversing any useful editing.

4159:

remain above waterline, and that some parts are underwater. Certainly it cannot be said to be partially afloat, or partially floating.

3273: 1998: 1873: 1121: 887: 849: 817: 283: 3680:

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/technik-motor/umwelt-technik/nach-schiffsunglueck-die-schwierige-bergung-der-costa-concordia-11620323.html

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I'm no shipping expert, but in the form of English I'm familiar with, sinking means ending up under water. So this ship hasn't sunk.

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True. We should find one ASAP as quite many sources already quote her displacement as 114,000+ tons i.e. mix it with gross tonnage.

1724:

and got the same answer. Hopefully, with the weekend over, an official announcement of the investigation being opened will be made.

757: 3159:"Characteristics of Ice Breakers: ... Hull divided by bulkheads into a series of watertight compartments in case it is holed." 2288: 3380:

21:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC). Seems like nobody read this. This discussion should take place in any of the many forums online and

2577:.) A Google (Google is a search engine which has stored and can search many web pages) search on an impeccably US site for string 2292: 4851:

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/homepage_showcase/coast-guard-cruise-ship-runs-aground-off-italy-3-bodies-found-helicopters-rescue-others

980: 570: 198: 4800: 4487:"During the fuel removal operation Smit reported that the ship had shifted 60 cm (24 in) in the 13 months since her grounding" 4349: 3958:

I agree. I also don't think we need two photos that are nearly identical except for zoom. Can we cut this section back please?

2409:

a US news organisation who are hardly going to be sloppy with their language, and is a source for the word if you want one. Or

1702:

says it would be the "Commissione Centrale di Indagine sui Sinistri Marittimi" CCISM - At www.guardiacostiera.it Is this true?

2444:

assure me it is a UK thing? I quoted references and supported what I said - please provide some facts supporting what you say.

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contracts do not feel FUD and hurt the business. A refloat-rebuild could take years and the result would be dubious at best.

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I'm not going to start and edit war, but it would be nice to get an explanation why my edit was reverted with the reason "

2208:(for submerged obstacles too?), AIS (transponder) (just telling the positin of the ship), GPS for knowing the position). 1419: 1243: 2960: 4928: 2336:

The hole is also relevant as the captain didn't tell the passengers about it (though the article doesn't mention this).

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http://www.italiantrivelle.com/it-blog/equipment-engineering/air-powered-drilling-machine-to-drill-under-water-598.html

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The order of events: hit rocks and holed (cause); flooding; list; sailed away nearby; beached (grounded if you prefer).

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IEC 60092-204 Electrical installations in ships. Part 204: System design - Electric and electrohydraulic steering gear

4290: 4287: 3829: 3645: 118: 79: 3199:, as in "the ship allided with the rock". I wouldn't argue for its use here, because it is not a widely known word. 2073:

It's definitely relevant in the article about the disaster, but not necessarly in the article about the ship itself.

1143:- groundings are solved by towing at high-tide or by adding floatation aids. That clearly isnt going to happen here. 4516: 2295: 1583: 463:

Non-English pages using English news releases, but can also be used as links in respective non-English Wikipedias:

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The matter of broken/unbroken bottle and troubled/untroubled ships is a good one and could be taken up elsewhere.

3418:

Well I think the ship could be re-floated, repaired, and returned to service. If you remember; the damage to the

2468:"A primary reason for eliminating the phrase is brevity of the intro paragraph." What? One, highly relevant, word? 4258:

the text, someone with no electrical knowledge will be confused to say the least. I would prefer something like:

2931:

Also consider that Costa Victoria, same concept, just smaller (6 DG 52.5MW, 2 ME 30MW), electric shematic at pg 4

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There's a little flurry of activity turning descriptions of the ship's amenities into past tense, e.g. changing "

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Lloyd's Register - General Information for the Rules and Regulations for the Classification of Ships - July 2011

1559:

Industry experts believe Costa will only be insured for 500 million dollars, which isn't enough to rebuild her.

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Although currently unused, this article is expected to undergo another round of editing in the coming months...

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http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/14/foto/le_scole_ecco_gli_scogli_sulle_carte_nautiche-28110610/1/

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http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/14/foto/le_scole_ecco_gli_scogli_sulle_carte_nautiche-28110610/1/

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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=149153108rg/templates/story/story.php?storyId=149153108

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is the remainder partial floating? The answer is obvious - No, it is not partially afloat because it lacks

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not a naval architect but would find more factual background useful. Perhaps access to a "Boy's Own" type

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Both maps are worth including with the focus being on the one which shows the site in relation to Italy.--

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reliable sources have reported it (such as Reuters, Associated Press, AFP, or other major news agencies).

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IEC 60092-501 Electrical installations in ships - Part 501: Special features - Electric propulsion plant

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-19/concordia-at-high-risk-of-sinking-italian-minister-says.html

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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Ship now showing on webcams as lying on her side. It is likely that she will be declared a total loss.

103: 4791:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 841: 399: 348: 319: 504: 498: 427: 376: 4881: 4827:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/three_coast_several_missing_after_Ztwzh4pOyI28VzooFByOnM/2

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https://web.archive.org/web/20121030040433/http://www.atc.fi/old/decks/Costa_Concordia_deck_plans.pdf

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Marine Traffic site using AIS information reports that the ship was going at approximate 15.5knots.

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power-producing and power-consuming components, so there's no danger of making a mistake like that.

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We need to have a Knowledge (XXG) article on the authority who will do the technical investigation

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AFAIK, naming the day is against the MoS. I've removed this a second time, and added an edit note.

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Please do not remove information from this article while there is a deletion discussion ongoing at

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As the bulk of the info on the grounding has been moved to that article, I've reinstated the map.

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It's quite likely they have asked some consulting naval architects before making that statement.

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might in fact muddy the idea of exactly what happened in peoples' minds rather than clarify it.

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This is not a US/UK issue - the verb "to hole" is indeed part of the US lexicon, see for example

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Terminology: If the ship is/has suffered a partial sinking, is the remainder partially floating?

3372:. "...bear in mind that talk pages exist for the purpose of discussing how to improve articles. 3369: 3017:

grounding" - I had looked them all up but managed to delete them while editing this paragraph.

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The following link is German, but there is a schematic drawing that explains it good visually:

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is justified as the previous Costa Cruises ship involved in an accident. The rest are cruft.

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IEC 60092-301 Electrical installations in ships. Part 301: Equipment - Generators and motors

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The only difference other than the phone numbers is one trivial misspelling in one of them...

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http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20050919/local/malta-on-new-liners-itinerary.77802

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should be used until we know the ship won't be hauling around people this time next year. --

3735: 3653: 3294:, and remove the 'eyesore'. It would be interesting to hear news on the owners' intentions. 3226: 3176: 3094: 3043: 2614: 2591: 2488: 2343: 2241: 1959: 1941: 1925: 1706: 1595: 1251: 1218: 1102: 1088: 1056: 752: 718: 687: 665: 640: 600: 534: 268: 4911: 4750: 4784: 4701: 4683: 4414: 3631: 3553: 3295: 2252: 1144: 966: 910: 615: 4425: 3592:

Thank you, much appreciated. I will investigate further. 22:01, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

3478:. Let's keep an eye on what happens and update the article when new information emerges. 2965: 1609:

Why are there entries for draft and draught in the specs column? Are they not the same?

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partially capsized which suggests she is not on the bottom and is floating on her own.

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The ship did not "capsize" as is mentioned in the article. The ship assumed a "list."

3901: 3833: 3824:. Can a private website be considered a reliable source? The same site states that the 3821: 3663: 3612: 3531: 3479: 3426: 3377: 3113: 3071: 2994: 2761: 2705: 2650: 2184: 2141: 2074: 1977: 1841: 1766: 1633: 1168: 1038: 987: 807: 4933: 4910:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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Consider this also for general diesel electric propulsion systems technology overview:

2914: 2897: 2871: 2855: 2769: 2742: 2713: 2676: 2658: 2642: 2618: 2595: 2559: 2543: 2528: 2492: 2429: 2395: 2364: 2347: 2264: 2245: 2223: 2192: 2170: 2149: 2134: 2107: 2082: 2067: 2043: 2028: 2006: 1985: 1971: 1945: 1929: 1898: 1881: 1849: 1827: 1802: 1774: 1758: 1733: 1714: 1681: 1659: 1641: 1624: 1599: 1572: 1544: 1529: 1502: 1481: 1467: 1453: 1439: 1391: 1377: 1358: 1331: 1293: 1255: 1237: 1222: 1176: 1152: 1129: 1106: 1092: 1060: 1046: 1032: 1003: 974: 960: 946: 932: 918: 895: 874: 825: 764: 726: 711: 691: 669: 644: 625: 604: 542: 291: 272: 255: 210: 187: 159: 142: 122: 107: 83: 4148:. Notably, the only thing preventing it from being totally submerged is the seabed. 2961:

http://www.industry.siemens.com/industrysolutions/global/en/marine/Pages/Default.aspx

2413:

that gives no indication that it's use as a verb is 'regional'. Finally, the article

1190: 858: 703: 2791:

https://www.leonardoinfo.com/leonardoInfo/LeoInfoLogInExternalServlet?ImoNum=9320544

2667:

I haven't found one that's available online. Might have to go to an actual library.

1514:

Nautical charts are much better that terrestrial maps at given info re coastlines.

4806: 4661: 4613: 4553: 4469: 4115: 4073: 4008: 3944: 3848: 3791: 3781: 3763: 3708: 3579: 3321: 3287: 3268: 3055: 2059: 1890: 1819: 1725: 1699: 1673: 1651: 1536: 1473: 1459: 1445: 1431: 1409: 1383: 1369: 1263:

I'm confused, where does it say anything about fathoms in the link you provided?

1229: 1024: 995: 952: 938: 924: 866: 587: 247: 202: 179: 151: 134: 4266:

Rewrote the description a bit to clarify how a diesel-electric power plant works.

3334:

Which is why such speculation is taking place on the talk page, not the article.--

2282:"The problem with 'holed" is that it does not have meaning to non-British readers" 4155:

as I at first stated), refers to the fact that some parts of the super-structure

3374:

Talk pages are not mere general discussion pages about the subject of the article

4602:

The use of the feminine gender for ships is encyclopedic. Many sources, such as

4530:- which specifically mentions the use of the feminine with regard to ships - it 4429: 4151:

It seems the use of the the term 'partial sinking' used in the article (and not

3731: 3649: 3222: 3172: 3090: 3039: 2610: 2587: 2484: 2339: 2237: 2234: 1937: 1921: 1591: 1247: 1214: 1098: 1084: 1052: 683: 661: 636: 596: 264: 261: 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

4466:

http://www.thestory.org/stories/2013-05/towing-away-costa-concordia-cruise-ship

4410: 3171:

not the cause of the disaster, but won't object if it's generally preferred.

197:

Following other precendent in wikipedia, it would be prudent to start a page

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Ship's Course: The location of the "Reef" and path of subsequent maneuvering

237:"Captain arrested amid growing anger after Italian cruise ship runs aground" 588:"Late on Saturday, two people were found alive trapped several decks below" 3896:

I admit my mistake. Costa themselves state that the cruising speed of the

2882:

at pg 19 pic 1 typical traditioanl diesel electric, (propeller + rudder)

1818:

The only problem I have with the displacement is that it is unreferenced.

3193:

FWIW, the verb that is used to describe a ship hitting a fixed object is

4698:

after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

432:

The Portuguese in the Brazil and Portugal versions has some differences!

4166:

So, what is the term that should be used to describe its condition? Is

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I think it will be scrapped on site. The salvage value is enormous.

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Hmmm, maybe. Let's see what others think. Not worth a war over though.

241: 236: 231: 226: 149: 4898:

An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

4737:

An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

227:"Search Is On for Survivors From Italian Cruise Ship That Ran Aground" 113:

Thank you, that'ts the notice I was meaning. (Sorry forgot to log in)

4023:

the champagne bottle, released by model Eva Herzigová failed to break

3744:

The ship isn't yet a total constructive loss and and I don't believe

2455:

use UK I mean "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

2327:"Hull damage can be inferred by listing/sinking after the grounding" 635:

Google News hits succeeds, then the article can be folded back here.

4424:

Sounds reasonable, but we can't just speculate on it. Are there any

2704:

Are those general Lloyd's rules or documents specific to this ship?

2410: 1305:

otherwise you just corrupt the data. This is just plain ignorance.

400:

http://www.costakreuzfahrten.ch/B2C/CHF/Info/concordia_statement.htm

349:

http://www.costacruisesasia.com/B2C/PAO/Info/concordia_statement.htm

320:

http://www.costacruisesasia.com/B2C/AUS/Info/concordia_statement.htm

3820:

and her sisters is 23 knots, but this article uses 19.6 knots from

907:

the shipping line initially insisted there was no danger of sinking

505:

http://www.costacruisesasia.com/B2C/KR/Info/concordia_statement.htm

499:

http://www.costacruisesasia.com/B2C/JP/Info/concordia_statement.htm

428:

http://www.costacruzeiros.com.pt/B2C/P/Info/concordia_statement.htm

377:

http://www.costakreuzfahrten.ch/B2C/CH/Info/concordia_statement.htm

4706:

to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

2314:"... only a handful of UK news articles describe the vessel as ." 2019:

STOP WITH THE PAST TENSE SHE WAS NOT DELCARED A TOTAL LOSS YET! --

1696:

Who is going to do the technical investigation into the accident?

371:

http://www.costakreuzfahrten.de/B2C/D/Info/concordia_statement.htm

365:

http://www.costakreuzfahrten.at/B2C/A/Info/concordia_statement.htm

3900:

class vessels is 19.6 knots while the maximum speed is 23 knots.

3790:. Until it is officially announced, we stick with present tense. 3611:

maritime publications that came out when the ship was completed.

511:

http://www.costacroisieres.be/B2C/BD/Info/concordia_statement.htm

469:

http://www.costacroisieres.be/B2C/BD/Info/concordia_statement.htm

422:

http://www.costacruzeiros.com/B2C/BR/Info/concordia_statement.htm

314:

http://www.costacruises.co.uk/B2C/GB/Info/concordia_statement.htm

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Google the phrase "Costa Concordia sunk" and get 5,790 results.

450:

http://www.costacruceros.com/B2C/RA/Info/concordia_statement.htm

394:

http://www.costacroisieres.fr/B2C/F/Info/concordia_statement.htm

388:

http://www.costacroisieres.be/B2C/B/Info/concordia_statement.htm

3978:

Should this article say it "was" a ship not "is" one? (-----)

2935:

http://www.sam-electronics.de/dateien/pad/broschueren/1.001.pdf

2927:

http://www.sam-electronics.de/dateien/pad/broschueren/1.002.pdf

923:

Then where's your reliable source that says the ship has sunk?

905:

from this entire article (with the sole exception of the line "

702:

Um, the article says that the ship hit an Israeli submarine...

454:

Used for Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, Peru, and Uruguay

326:

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/Info/concordia_statement.htm

216:

Looks like you've already done it! 12:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

1430:

shows the wreck in relation to Italy in the top right corner.

810:

and consider changing the heading from Grounding to Sinking.

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reef. RS for that?) and the editor who did that edit, and was

529:

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/SE/Info/concordia_statement.htm

523:

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/RU/Info/concordia_statement.htm

517:

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/NO/Info/concordia_statement.htm

487:

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/FI/Info/concordia_statement.htm

481:

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/DK/Info/concordia_statement.htm

444:

http://www.costacruceros.es/B2C/E/Info/concordia_statement.htm

411:

http://www.costacrociere.it/B2C/I/Info/concordia_statement.htm

337:

http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/EU/Info/concordia_statement.htm

25: 1278:

point. This is the "reef" circled by Repubblica on its chart

493:

http://www.costachina.com/B2C/HK/Info/concordia_statement.htm

475:

http://www.costachina.com/B2C/RC/Info/concordia_statement.htm

174:

about the loss. Suggest that if this is used, a link via the

4866:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

4717:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

3578:, so you might be able to get some info from their website. 2840:

Engines for Electric Power Production : Total Power 76850

1765:

less the same. Those inch-thick plates are not that strong.

1590:

with an example taken from this article. Comments welcome.

3784:

would suggest that the decision has been made to scrap her

2951:

http://www.abb.com/industries/us/9AAC910035.aspx?country=US

2235:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/Special:Contributions/Rvongher

4817:

http://www.atc.fi/old/decks/Costa_Concordia_deck_plans.pdf

4795:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

1444:

No, it shows the wreck in relation to Tuscany, not Italy.

1167:

people have time to think what to do with the wr... ship.

4682:

I have just added archive links to one external link on

4286:

Mistakes made by the captain, not this artical. I was a

4110:

is justified as the previous Italian-flagged ship lost.

2034:

possible no-one wants to cruise the med on a shipwreck!

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Thanks, guys. Let's all keep an eye on this, shall we?

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http://www.rolls-royce.com/marine/products/propulsors/

580:"Some 42 are reported injured, two of them seriously." 3730:

if it sinks in deep water and is not to be salvaged.

3816:

Quite many articles state that the top speed of the

3194: 1368:

earlier. And I agree, including that was tasteless.

2956:

http://www.sam-electronics.de/dateien/pad/prop.html

2872:

http://diem.uniud.it/Conf_energia_navi_19-05-09.pdf

2140:Never heard of "citadel" in passenger ship design. 1097:Agreed, it's certainly "wrecked aground" not sunk. 4660:on her fateful journey. Is this worth mentioning? 3828:has a (top?) speed of 19.5 knots, but for example 739:clever at camouflage and disguised their sub as a 2923:For diesel electric propulsion see also this one: 2837:Number of Engines for Electric Power Production 7 242:"Cruise Ship Capsizes Off Italy, at Least 3 Dead" 3032:situation can be so described, but it's not the 1700:http://www.amem.at/pdf/AMEM_Marine_Accidents.pdf 232:"Nations hunt for info on Italy cruise accident" 4807:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16558910 3467:weighs some six-seven times as much as the USS 2460:"U.S. Navy Ship Is Holed In Crash at Vancouver" 2162:. I've never heard of the rule 81.* mentions. 3054:better things to be doing arguing over this. 1364:You may be looking at an old version. It was 8: 1210:(click on "(+) Visualizza la Tavola I.I.M.") 2462:.Anyway, if you have a better word, use it. 937:A ship doesn't have to sink to be wrecked. 4385:in the article, just information that has 3867:it looks like a personal hobby website. 2302:stated that "One Japanese cruiser ... was 1920:". I don't think this is appropriate yet. 801:Grounding vs Sinking vs Wreck vs Foundered 297:Costa Cruises notices pages about accident 4783:I have just modified 6 external links on 4106:I thought I'd raised this earlier. IMHO, 3832:states that her trial speed is 23 knots. 3722:Just thought I'd add another voice. Ship 2519:on what part of the world you're from. 1578:Better way of linking to disaster article 4608:, also refer to ships the same way. Per 2876:at pg 7 2 MMEE 42,00 MW, 6 DDGG 75,60 MW 1672:I've also corrected my typo in the ibx, 1458:Then the smallest box in the top right. 4140:suffered an alleged 'partial sinking', 1271:There is a better nautical chart here: 735:Not any more, (unless the Israelis are 4374: 4136:If she has, according to the article, 2575:a use (not in headline) on 22 Jan 2012 1242:Hm, there's nothing along the path at 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 4878:to let others know (documentation at 4193:totally disabled and no longer afloat 3216:That suggests a lovely heading which 2807:Propulsion Type Fixed pitch propeller 901:No, the complete absence of the word 7: 3313: 3157:). Here's an extra sourced example: 2879:at pg 23 Traditional diesel electric 2573:"holed" from the many hits - here's 4612:, the article will not be changed. 2947:And this ship components companies: 3707:should be reverted until it does. 1181:The most similar situation is the 386:Belgium (French site)/Luxembourg: 24: 4787:. Please take a moment to review 4686:. Please take a moment to review 3155:site:www.history.navy.mil "holed" 2579:site:www.history.navy.mil "holed" 2355:The American Heritage Dictionary. 2255:- you have very steady hands ! -- 571:"At least six people were killed" 4889: 4728: 3726:until scrapped. May also become 3314: 1316:was... north of...the harbour" 1208:There's a chart of Giglio here: 653:"the largest ship ever to sink." 199:Shipwreck of the Costa Concordia 178:machine or similar is provided. 89: 29: 4805:Corrected formatting/usage for 4799:Corrected formatting/usage for 4381:all, we do not need to include 1020:That article was actually from 4710:Attempted to fix sourcing for 4622:18:09, 19 September 2013 (UTC) 4597:22:52, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 4576:02:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 4562:20:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 4544:14:06, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 4521:13:38, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 717:Which one? That sounds odd... 467:Belgium (Dutch/Flemish site): 1: 4771:00:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 4399:20:14, 31 December 2012 (UTC) 4163:bouyancy on its own merits. 4042:07:45, 29 February 2012 (UTC) 4017:04:52, 24 February 2012 (UTC) 3999:00:32, 24 February 2012 (UTC) 2451:demarcate? For clarity, when 2296:Knowledge (XXG) article on a 2251:Thanks for this! Great work. 1692:Investigation - which agency? 1404:The Italy map was removed in 1193:, 16 January 2012, 19:01 CET. 983:that says the ship has sunk. 751:@ 02:17, 15 January 2012. - 4934:08:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC) 4636:17:26, 3 November 2014 (UTC) 4455:22:40, 6 February 2013 (UTC) 4438:21:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC) 4419:18:33, 12 January 2013 (UTC) 4326:00:24, 16 October 2012 (UTC) 4304:18:18, 11 October 2012 (UTC) 4252:13:38, 20 October 2012 (UTC) 3968:02:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC) 3953:22:37, 8 February 2012 (UTC) 3933:20:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC) 3910:08:27, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 3883:23:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC) 3857:19:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3842:13:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3800:06:45, 30 January 2012 (UTC) 3780:announcement has been made, 3772:22:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 3758:22:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 3740:19:20, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 3717:21:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC) 3696:21:34, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 3672:03:20, 25 January 2012 (UTC) 3658:23:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 3640:22:27, 24 January 2012 (UTC) 3621:06:43, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 3588:14:02, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 3566:11:10, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 3540:06:47, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 3525:00:18, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 3488:23:29, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 3435:23:12, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 3394:12:51, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 3364:22:35, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 3344:15:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 3330:13:05, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 3304:11:40, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 3282:10:32, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 3259:10:00, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 3231:12:17, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3208:12:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3181:11:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3122:10:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3099:10:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3080:09:47, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3064:09:12, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3048:07:24, 27 January 2012 (UTC) 3003:05:11, 26 January 2012 (UTC) 2983:18:09, 21 January 2012 (UTC) 2915:15:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC) 2898:13:47, 21 January 2012 (UTC) 2856:12:32, 20 January 2012 (UTC) 2770:09:44, 19 January 2012 (UTC) 2743:09:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC) 2714:08:38, 19 January 2012 (UTC) 2677:12:44, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 2659:08:36, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 2643:21:22, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 2619:21:33, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2596:09:08, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2560:06:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2544:05:51, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2529:05:03, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2506:The references you list are 2493:03:27, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2430:02:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2396:01:59, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2365:00:33, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2348:00:03, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2265:00:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC) 2246:21:29, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 2224:19:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC) 2193:13:20, 20 January 2012 (UTC) 2171:13:05, 20 January 2012 (UTC) 2150:13:46, 19 January 2012 (UTC) 2135:12:30, 19 January 2012 (UTC) 2108:14:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC) 2083:08:44, 17 January 2012 (UTC) 2068:08:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC) 2044:21:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC) 2029:19:44, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 2007:14:30, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1986:11:15, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1972:11:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1946:02:38, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1930:02:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1899:10:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC) 1882:00:33, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1850:13:30, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1828:13:12, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1803:01:10, 17 January 2012 (UTC) 1775:12:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1759:12:37, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1734:06:34, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1715:18:07, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1682:07:28, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1660:07:13, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1642:06:38, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1625:02:37, 16 January 2012 (UTC) 1600:17:24, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1573:17:18, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1545:11:52, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1530:04:08, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1503:21:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1482:19:48, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1468:19:45, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1454:19:38, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1440:19:33, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1392:07:49, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1378:19:11, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1359:19:08, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1332:04:59, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1294:03:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1256:18:43, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1238:17:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1223:17:20, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1183:MS Herald of Free Enterprise 1177:11:13, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1153:10:56, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1130:22:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1107:21:36, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1093:21:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1061:21:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1047:20:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1033:19:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 1004:19:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 975:19:35, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 961:18:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 947:18:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 933:18:01, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 919:17:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 896:16:31, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 875:16:22, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 826:16:12, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 765:03:10, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 727:02:26, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 712:02:20, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 692:03:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 670:02:35, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 645:02:17, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 626:02:10, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 605:01:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 543:23:21, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 292:22:24, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 273:21:19, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 256:20:42, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 211:10:15, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 188:08:41, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 166:Statement from Costa Cruises 160:09:08, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 143:07:13, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 123:07:32, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 108:04:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 84:03:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 4291:Petty officer, second class 4288:Hull Maintenance Technician 4236:12:59, 12 August 2012 (UTC) 4221:Diesel-electric or Electric 4142:is it also partially afloat 3028:say "Grounded 2012" as the 2834:Total Electric Power 68400 398:Switzerland (French site): 375:Switzerland (German site): 4949: 4780:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 4704:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 4679:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 4670:19:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC) 4354:15:33, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 4276:06:17, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 4124:15:08, 11 April 2012 (UTC) 4098:06:54, 14 March 2012 (UTC) 4082:12:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC) 2160:Safe_room#Citadel_on_ships 630:There is no indication in 324:USA/Canada/North America: 4501:15:07, 19 June 2014 (UTC) 4213:12:42, 15 July 2012 (UTC) 4182:03:38, 15 July 2012 (UTC) 4062:23:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC) 3144:The ship was still afloat 2203:Navigation safety systems 1720:I asked that question at 747:vandalising the page was 4478:14:41, 16 May 2013 (UTC) 3576:Registro Italiano Navale 2804:Total Engine Power 42000 2795:RINA naval registry says 1950:Still happening though! 1740:Displacement mis-quoted? 1588:Template:Current related 1555:Could be declared a loss 612:Costa Concordia disaster 557:Costa Concordia disaster 550:Costa Concordia disaster 4776:External links modified 4675:External links modified 4461:new source: "the story" 4007:established consensus. 1911:has four swimming pools 1185:. That article says it 566:Here are some updates: 448:Spanish South America: 3463:Keep in mind that the 2810:Number of Tailshafts 2 2049:The "See also" section 1605:Why draft and draught? 1009:Actually I just found 698:Hit by an Israeli sub? 347:Asia/Oceania English: 148:Sadly, I think it is. 221:Sources with new info 42:of past discussions. 4725:to let others know. 4690:. If necessary, add 4404:Auxiliary propulsion 2230:Pictures on Commons! 170:Costa have issued a 18:Talk:Costa Concordia 4870:parameter below to 4721:parameter below to 4428:that discuss this? 3702:Past tense for ship 3384:in this talk page. 3288:slideshow of damage 2801:Number of Engines 2 1918:four swimming pools 4922:InternetArchiveBot 3574:was classified by 2382:hitting a reef. 619: 491:Hong Kong/Taiwan: 70:Current News Alert 4769: 4587:comment added by 4357: 4340:comment added by 4316:comment added by 4002: 3985:comment added by 3923:comment added by 3873:comment added by 3598:comment added by 3420:USS Cole (DDG-67) 3354:comment added by 3249:comment added by 2973:comment added by 2888:comment added by 2846:comment added by 2733:comment added by 2440:What do you mean 2423: 2287:non-British use: 2214:comment added by 2098:comment added by 1997:comment added by 1968: 1872:comment added by 1793:comment added by 1615:comment added by 1520:comment added by 1508:this is the best 1322:comment added by 1284:comment added by 1120:comment added by 1022:expertcruiser.com 886:comment added by 854: 840:comment added by 816:comment added by 784:comment added by 761: 617: 115:Magnum Serpentine 76:Magnum Serpentine 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 4940: 4932: 4923: 4896: 4893: 4892: 4885: 4838: 4765: 4764:Talk to my owner 4760: 4735: 4732: 4731: 4705: 4697: 4599: 4513:Bumblebritches57 4426:reliable sources 4376: 4356: 4334: 4328: 4168:'partially sunk' 4153:'partially sunk' 4001: 3979: 3935: 3885: 3782:this news report 3607: 3366: 3319: 3318: 3317: 3261: 3206: 3205: 3156: 2985: 2900: 2858: 2745: 2685:Could this help? 2580: 2550:this situation. 2419: 2363: 2362: 2226: 2169: 2168: 2110: 2009: 1966: 1957: 1884: 1805: 1627: 1532: 1334: 1296: 1132: 898: 853: 834: 828: 793: 759: 623: 620: 555:I'm updating at 473:Mainland China: 97: 93: 92: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 4948: 4947: 4943: 4942: 4941: 4939: 4938: 4937: 4926: 4921: 4894: 4890: 4879: 4832: 4793:this simple FaQ 4785:Costa Concordia 4778: 4768: 4763: 4733: 4729: 4699: 4691: 4684:Costa Concordia 4677: 4658:smuggle cocaine 4656:CC was used to 4654: 4582: 4509: 4485: 4463: 4411:Virgil H. Soule 4406: 4363: 4361:Infobox cleanup 4335: 4311: 4284: 4223: 4134: 4069: 4025: 3980: 3976: 3941: 3918: 3875:174.253.139.157 3868: 3822:Fakta om Fartyg 3818:Costa Concordia 3814: 3704: 3600:109.148.167.163 3593: 3572:Costa Concordia 3554:cutaway drawing 3465:Costa Concordia 3349: 3315: 3286:If you see the 3244: 3241: 3201: 3200: 3154: 3010: 2968: 2883: 2841: 2728: 2631: 2578: 2552:HarryHenryGebel 2428: 2358: 2357: 2273: 2232: 2209: 2205: 2164: 2163: 2119: 2100:174.253.154.206 2093: 2051: 1992: 1951: 1907: 1867: 1862: 1795:174.253.151.107 1788: 1742: 1694: 1610: 1607: 1580: 1557: 1515: 1402: 1347: 1345:Friday the 13th 1317: 1279: 1206: 1115: 881: 835: 833:doesn't float. 811: 803: 779: 775: 700: 621: 616: 553: 548:WP:SUMMARY for 299: 280: 223: 195: 168: 131: 90: 88: 72: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 4946: 4944: 4916: 4915: 4908: 4864: 4863: 4855:Added archive 4853: 4845:Added archive 4843: 4829: 4821:Added archive 4819: 4811:Added archive 4809: 4803: 4777: 4774: 4761: 4755: 4754: 4747: 4715: 4714: 4676: 4673: 4653: 4652:Drug smuggling 4650: 4649: 4648: 4647: 4646: 4645: 4644: 4643: 4642: 4641: 4640: 4639: 4638: 4508: 4505: 4504: 4503: 4484: 4481: 4462: 4459: 4458: 4457: 4441: 4440: 4405: 4402: 4362: 4359: 4330: 4329: 4283: 4280: 4279: 4278: 4255: 4254: 4222: 4219: 4218: 4217: 4216: 4215: 4197: 4196: 4138:partially sunk 4133: 4130: 4129: 4128: 4127: 4126: 4101: 4100: 4068: 4065: 4050: 4049: 4024: 4021: 4020: 4019: 3975: 3972: 3971: 3970: 3940: 3937: 3915: 3914: 3913: 3912: 3891: 3890: 3889: 3888: 3887: 3886: 3860: 3859: 3826:Costa Favolosa 3813: 3810: 3809: 3808: 3807: 3806: 3805: 3804: 3803: 3802: 3703: 3700: 3699: 3698: 3683: 3676: 3675: 3674: 3660: 3627: 3626: 3625: 3624: 3623: 3549: 3548: 3547: 3546: 3545: 3544: 3543: 3542: 3507: 3506: 3505: 3504: 3503: 3502: 3498: 3497: 3496: 3495: 3494: 3493: 3492: 3491: 3490: 3472: 3448: 3447: 3446: 3445: 3444: 3443: 3442: 3441: 3440: 3439: 3438: 3437: 3405: 3404: 3403: 3402: 3401: 3400: 3399: 3398: 3397: 3396: 3386:217.216.30.226 3346: 3251:60.242.147.167 3240: 3237: 3236: 3235: 3234: 3233: 3211: 3210: 3190: 3189: 3188: 3187: 3186: 3185: 3184: 3183: 3166: 3165: 3163: 3162: 3148: 3147: 3129: 3128: 3127: 3126: 3125: 3124: 3104: 3103: 3102: 3101: 3083: 3082: 3067: 3066: 3009: 3006: 2987: 2986: 2963: 2958: 2953: 2948: 2945: 2940: 2937: 2932: 2929: 2924: 2919: 2902: 2901: 2880: 2877: 2874: 2868: 2867: 2866: 2865: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2860: 2859: 2838: 2835: 2832: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2816: 2815: 2814: 2813: 2812: 2811: 2808: 2805: 2802: 2799: 2796: 2793: 2779: 2778: 2777: 2776: 2775: 2774: 2773: 2772: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2747: 2746: 2719: 2718: 2717: 2716: 2699: 2698: 2695: 2692: 2689: 2686: 2682: 2681: 2680: 2679: 2662: 2661: 2630: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2624: 2623: 2622: 2621: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2598: 2584: 2583: 2563: 2562: 2500: 2499: 2498: 2497: 2496: 2495: 2479: 2478: 2476: 2475: 2473: 2472: 2470: 2469: 2467: 2466: 2464: 2463: 2457: 2456: 2446: 2445: 2433: 2432: 2424: 2421:JohnBlackburne 2368: 2367: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2317: 2316: 2315: 2284: 2283: 2272: 2269: 2268: 2267: 2257:195.137.93.171 2231: 2228: 2204: 2201: 2200: 2199: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2176: 2175: 2174: 2173: 2153: 2152: 2127:82.131.210.163 2118: 2115: 2114: 2113: 2112: 2111: 2086: 2085: 2055:Express Samina 2050: 2047: 2017: 2016: 2015: 2014: 2013: 2012: 2011: 2010: 1906: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1861: 1858: 1857: 1856: 1855: 1854: 1853: 1852: 1833: 1832: 1831: 1830: 1813: 1812: 1811: 1810: 1809: 1808: 1807: 1806: 1778: 1777: 1751:82.131.210.163 1741: 1738: 1737: 1736: 1693: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1684: 1665: 1664: 1663: 1662: 1645: 1644: 1617:71.190.168.160 1606: 1603: 1586:on the use of 1579: 1576: 1556: 1553: 1552: 1551: 1550: 1549: 1548: 1547: 1491: 1490: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1486: 1485: 1484: 1401: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1395: 1394: 1351:67.163.102.158 1346: 1343: 1342: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1336: 1335: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1298: 1297: 1275: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1258: 1205: 1204:Nautical chart 1202: 1201: 1200: 1199: 1198: 1197: 1196: 1195: 1194: 1111: 1110: 1109: 1081: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1075: 1074: 1073: 1072: 1071: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1067: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1035: 1006: 808:MS Sea Diamond 802: 799: 774: 771: 770: 769: 768: 767: 730: 729: 699: 696: 695: 694: 650: 649: 648: 647: 594: 593: 585: 577: 552: 546: 532: 531: 525: 519: 513: 507: 501: 495: 489: 483: 477: 471: 461: 460: 459: 458: 455: 446: 436: 435: 434: 433: 424: 414: 413: 403: 402: 396: 390: 380: 379: 373: 367: 357: 356: 355: 354: 345: 344: 343: 333: 332: 331: 322: 316: 298: 295: 279: 276: 245: 244: 239: 234: 229: 222: 219: 218: 217: 194: 191: 167: 164: 163: 162: 130: 127: 126: 125: 71: 68: 65: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4945: 4936: 4935: 4930: 4925: 4924: 4913: 4909: 4906: 4902: 4901: 4900: 4899: 4887: 4883: 4877: 4873: 4869: 4862: 4858: 4854: 4852: 4848: 4844: 4842: 4836: 4830: 4828: 4824: 4820: 4818: 4814: 4810: 4808: 4804: 4802: 4798: 4797: 4796: 4794: 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4214: 4210: 4206: 4201: 4200: 4199: 4198: 4194: 4190: 4186: 4185: 4184: 4183: 4179: 4175: 4171: 4169: 4164: 4160: 4158: 4154: 4149: 4147: 4143: 4139: 4131: 4125: 4121: 4117: 4113: 4109: 4108:Achille Lauro 4105: 4104: 4103: 4102: 4099: 4095: 4091: 4086: 4085: 4084: 4083: 4079: 4075: 4066: 4064: 4063: 4059: 4055: 4046: 4045: 4044: 4043: 4039: 4035: 4034:79.31.208.108 4031: 4022: 4018: 4014: 4010: 4005: 4004: 4003: 4000: 3996: 3992: 3988: 3984: 3973: 3969: 3965: 3961: 3957: 3956: 3955: 3954: 3950: 3946: 3938: 3936: 3934: 3930: 3926: 3925:71.217.26.216 3922: 3911: 3907: 3903: 3899: 3895: 3894: 3893: 3892: 3884: 3880: 3876: 3872: 3866: 3865: 3864: 3863: 3862: 3861: 3858: 3854: 3850: 3846: 3845: 3844: 3843: 3839: 3835: 3831: 3830:this document 3827: 3823: 3819: 3811: 3801: 3797: 3793: 3789: 3788: 3783: 3779: 3775: 3774: 3773: 3769: 3765: 3761: 3760: 3759: 3755: 3751: 3747: 3743: 3742: 3741: 3737: 3733: 3729: 3725: 3721: 3720: 3719: 3718: 3714: 3710: 3701: 3697: 3693: 3689: 3684: 3681: 3677: 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2080: 2076: 2072: 2071: 2070: 2069: 2065: 2061: 2056: 2048: 2046: 2045: 2041: 2037: 2036:94.101.120.73 2031: 2030: 2026: 2022: 2021:Yankeesman312 2008: 2004: 2000: 1996: 1989: 1988: 1987: 1983: 1979: 1975: 1974: 1973: 1970: 1969: 1963: 1962: 1956: 1955: 1949: 1948: 1947: 1943: 1939: 1934: 1933: 1932: 1931: 1927: 1923: 1919: 1916: 1912: 1904: 1900: 1896: 1892: 1887: 1886: 1885: 1883: 1879: 1875: 1871: 1866: 1859: 1851: 1847: 1843: 1839: 1838: 1837: 1836: 1835: 1834: 1829: 1825: 1821: 1817: 1816: 1815: 1814: 1804: 1800: 1796: 1792: 1786: 1785: 1784: 1783: 1782: 1781: 1780: 1779: 1776: 1772: 1768: 1763: 1762: 1761: 1760: 1756: 1752: 1746: 1739: 1735: 1731: 1727: 1723: 1719: 1718: 1717: 1716: 1712: 1708: 1703: 1701: 1697: 1691: 1683: 1679: 1675: 1671: 1670: 1669: 1668: 1667: 1666: 1661: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1648: 1647: 1646: 1643: 1639: 1635: 1630: 1629: 1628: 1626: 1622: 1618: 1614: 1604: 1602: 1601: 1597: 1593: 1589: 1585: 1577: 1575: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1565:Yankeesman312 1562: 1554: 1546: 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383: 378: 374: 372: 368: 366: 362: 361: 360: 352: 351: 350: 346: 340: 339: 338: 334: 329: 328: 327: 323: 321: 317: 315: 311: 310: 309: 306: 302: 296: 294: 293: 289: 285: 277: 275: 274: 270: 266: 262: 258: 257: 253: 249: 243: 240: 238: 235: 233: 230: 228: 225: 224: 220: 215: 214: 213: 212: 208: 204: 200: 193:Redirect page 192: 190: 189: 185: 181: 177: 173: 165: 161: 157: 153: 150: 147: 146: 145: 144: 140: 136: 128: 124: 120: 116: 112: 111: 110: 109: 105: 101: 96: 86: 85: 81: 77: 69: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 4920: 4917: 4897: 4888: 4875: 4871: 4867: 4865: 4782: 4779: 4756: 4736: 4727: 4722: 4718: 4716: 4681: 4678: 4655: 4603: 4583:— Preceding 4550:WP:SHE4SHIPS 4531: 4510: 4486: 4464: 4407: 4386: 4382: 4379: 4370: 4366: 4364: 4336:— Preceding 4331: 4312:— Preceding 4285: 4259: 4256: 4224: 4192: 4188: 4172: 4167: 4165: 4161: 4156: 4152: 4150: 4145: 4141: 4137: 4135: 4112:Costa Europa 4111: 4107: 4070: 4051: 4026: 3981:— Preceding 3977: 3974:Decommission 3942: 3919:— 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It 2318: 2308: 2303: 2297: 2285: 2277: 2274: 2233: 2210:— Preceding 2206: 2124: 2120: 2094:— Preceding 2054: 2052: 2032: 2018: 1999:68.144.18.96 1993:— Preceding 1965: 1960: 1953: 1917: 1914: 1910: 1908: 1874:84.92.151.21 1868:— Preceding 1863: 1789:— Preceding 1747: 1743: 1704: 1698: 1695: 1611:— Preceding 1608: 1581: 1558: 1516:— Preceding 1492: 1416: 1403: 1348: 1318:— Preceding 1303: 1280:— Preceding 1262: 1207: 1186: 1164:Unlucky ship 1163: 1160:Unlucky ship 1159: 1140: 1136: 1122:68.144.18.96 1116:— Preceding 1013: 1008: 992:high-quality 991: 906: 902: 888:68.144.18.96 882:— Preceding 860: 842:68.144.18.96 836:— Preceding 818:76.18.43.253 812:— Preceding 804: 795: 780:— Preceding 776: 758: 753: 744: 740: 736: 701: 676: 657: 652: 651: 595: 590: 582: 573: 565: 554: 533: 462: 437: 416:Portuguese: 415: 404: 381: 358: 335:EU/English: 312:UK/Ireland: 307: 303: 300: 284:4.249.201.74 281: 259: 246: 196: 169: 132: 94: 87: 73: 60: 43: 37: 4882:Sourcecheck 4375:|ship flag= 3646:A reference 3517:91.82.36.49 3425:repaired?-- 2975:80.182.3.74 2890:80.182.3.74 2848:81.118.90.5 2735:81.118.90.5 2253:0.8 seconds 1905:Past tense? 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