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wallet, etc., but, rather the optimum protection of their continuing profit margin, through an ongoing form of CONSUMER FRAUD known as "Deliberate
Obsolescence"? (...NOT "Planned Obsolescence", mind you - that's a whole different animal, and a perfectly valid industrial concept. "Deliberate Obsolescence", on the other hand, is the malicious manufacture of "Landfill By Design": technology which flagrantly WASTES raw materials, energy, time, etc., and UNNECESSARILY destroys itself, just a little bit, every time you use it and/or every minute of every day, so that you have no choice but to give them "mo'money, mo'money, mo'money" nearly every time you turn around.)
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just minutes. The proper location is in the open air (away from corners and furniture) but also away from doors to outside, windows, bathrooms and kitchens. High or low is not relevant except for digital units which should be at eye level for ease of reading. As well, the lifespan of alarms is based on the specific manufacturer's technology to maintain a certain level of calibration, thus most alarms have a 5 year life with a current maximum of 7 years for CO alarms (although 10 years is coming soon in Canada). Added May 7, 2012 --- Comirelo
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to sound at higher levels of CO than with previous editions of the standard.The reasoning behind these changes is to reduce calls to fire stations, utilities and emergency response teams when the levels of CO are not life-threatening.This change will also reduce the number of calls to these agencies due to detector inaccuracy or the presence of other gases. Consequently, new alarms will not sound at CO concentrations up to 70 ppm. Note that these concentrations are significantly in excess of the
Canadian health guidelines.
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electrochemical cell I just found in my self-deactivated detector looks like it has a getter-chemical packet taped over its aperture. This is a consumable; and when depleted the cell can then start to degrade. The only near-permanent technology I can think of would be a 5-micron mid-IR laser with a resonant gas cell, stimulating faint acoustic resonance to be detected by microphone. Too expensive and too big for consumer alarms. Better sensing techniques may well turn up, but I'm not surprized they are not here yet.
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of 28 whereas air is slightly more than this. It is therefore almost neutral density. However in a normal room, thermal convection current dominate transport of gases in a room. The ceiling is a relatively good place to have a CO detector as long as air flow from convectional currents in not affected and any boundary layer is overcome.
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Not True! the two main standards for these detactors in
Euroipe and North America, EN50291 and UL, both make testing of the sensor for open circuit or short circuit faults mandatory. Ther test button will not ensure hat the sensor accurately detects CO (the only way to do this is by using a test gas,
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I wonder if the manufacturers have thought through the legal implications of intentionally disabling a piece of safety equipment. If a householder chooses to continue to use a detector past its advisory last-use date, that is their own decision and their own risk. However, time-bombing a detector to
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As an electronics technician for many decades, I'm a little skeptical any time industrialists claim an alleged "need" to periodically replace somewhat-expensive items that don't seem like they should even HAVE a "decay rate" - always reminds me of John
Lovetts' "Pathological Liar" character from SNL
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Most CO detectors have a test button that should be pressed once a week to confirm that the device is in operation. Detectors with displays can be tested with a known source of CO such as smoke from a cigarette or incense stick. Hold the CO source about 8-10 inches away and watch the digital display
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It should also be remembered that for a nearly neutral density gas such as carbon monoxide, in most normal rooms thermally induced air currents will be the dominant factor in the distribution of gas around the room. Although gas diffusion is a factor for the distribution of carbon monoxide, thermal
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Detectors with a digital display and a history option can provide the true CO concentrations in a house. A low-level display would be useful for people with existing respiratory problems or for those who like to spot evolving problems, rather than having to wait for the situation to become serious.
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The standards organizations of Canada (CSA) and the United States (Underwriter's
Laboratory or UL) have co-ordinated the writing of CO standards and product testing. The standards as of 2005 prohibit showing CO levels of less than 30 ppm on digital displays. The new standards also require the alarm
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I made the suggestion about not needing them on the ceiling into a stern warning. If you install them on the ceiling (unless they're specifically designed for it - most aren't) it could be deadly. = incorrect Carbon monoxide is not heavier than air - in fact it is slightly lighter as CO has the RMM
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Although it is better to install the detector high rather than low, the most important thing is to not install it in a "corner", where the air might not circulate adequately. Also, the detector should be installed between the most likely sources of CO (a furnace) and the sleeping area, so that it
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Currently there are few locations that require recycling nor are capable of it. As of May 2012, British-Columbia has a recylcing program but in the rest of Canada, only regular household garbage can handle them. That includes smoke?CO alarms with the ionization which contains
Americium241. ---
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Carbon monoxide weighs about 97% that of air, thus will eventually "float". However, almost all household alarms (the "detector" is but a component inside the alarm) use an accumulated effect for their detection and warning as CO at low levels over a long time is as dangerous as higher levels in
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I just discovered that my carbon monoxide detector has an "end of life" beeping mode, which sounds just the same as it's low battery warning mode. This raises the issue of disposal which is apparently subject to local code, likely a worthy topic to aid people in making the right choice on how to
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until recently, 100ppm/8hrs of work was acceptable. It's now 50ppm/8hrs (Ontario) In some factories, they have no choice. Propane tow motors can generate CO. Appliance (natural draft) venting only has to be below 100ppm. (condensing appliances often are higher) 35ppm takes a significant time to
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I would like to point out this article still incorrectly states that CO is denser("Heavier") than or equal in density to air. I agree "should be installed between the most likely sources of CO" and while I can't say anything about air currents, I think the best advice is to follow manufacturers
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Limited lifetime of CO sensors seems technologically plausible to me, so far. Considering a reaction-with-metal, color-changing sensor. If it reacts with CO, it will probably react with S, CN, or CNS _irreversibly_. Then ambient concentrations of those will degrade the sensor over time. The
1094:
I'm invariably left wondering: are manufacturers REALLY providing technology which "goes the limit" of what is ACTUALLY, practically "do-able" at this point in history, or have they simply "pulled-back" their research to a level which assures, NOT the optimum protection of my family, property,
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Isn't 35 PPM the point where bad stuff starts to happen? Pets dying, newborns dying, people with respiratory or heart/blood problems dying, etc. I know 25 PPM is the point where healthy individuals start having symptoms but it's less for others. If half your family is dead before a detector is
788:
There are CO detector test kits available, where CO detectors are sold, that provide a vial of high level of CO (1000 ppm) and a plastic tent to house the unit during the test. This test only proves that your detector will sound an alarm with a very high level of CO.
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I just came here, looking for emergency advice because my CO detector is beeping. It makes me think that
Knowledge (XXG) topics that are about emergency devices should begin with emergency instructions, in large type of what to do immediately. My two cents - David.
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It seems relevant to mention that the main makers of domestic detectors for the US market seem to be Kidde (brand
Nighthawk) and First Alert. But I don't know if or how it might be proper to add this info to the article.
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specification. What I was taught is that CO's should be in the area of outlet to your waist on the wall in *GENERAL*. I wont push that though as I see it as being very much an opinion, with no real scientific backup.
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So, how do they work, and is there some kind of makeshift one that one could construct from household items in a situation where a commercial one is not an option? That would be good info to include here.
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Early designs were basically a white or beige element which would fade to a brownish or blackish color if carbon monoxide were present. As carbon monoxide related deaths rose during the
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830:*allowed* to go off are they really worth buying? How do you find a detector that displays low level amounts given this regulation? I want to troubleshoot why my family feels sick.
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Low-level CO detection products are becoming commercially available. They will not be certified to CSA or UL standards, as these standards currently prohibit low level displays.
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The legal situation is only discussed in two states in the US. Does anybody know the current legislation about these else where. I'm particularly interested in Europe.
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A ceiling mounted CO detector would have to be very sensitive in relation to a normal "near the floor" detector. NOT TRUE Does anyone have any examples? I've never even
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cause a noise nuisance at a specific date and thus force the owner to remove the battery, could be seen as a felony if it leads to an otherwise avoidable death. --
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So far, my (admittedly limited) ransacking of the web hasn't turned up anyone even ASKING the most important question, let alone answering same:
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2. Smaller concentrations can be harmful over longer periods of time while increasing concentrations require diminishing exposure times to be
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air currents normally dominate. The positioning of the carbon monoxide detector should therefore reflect this. -(someone wrote sometime)
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https://web.archive.org/web/20160506200010/http://www.menlofire.org/pdf/Updated%20Smoke%20Alarm%20Requirement%20IB%20September%202014.pdf
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This very impressive website not only reviews CO detectors, it has a serious, considered overview-review of reviews, Updated July 2007:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Here and now, in the second decade of the twenty-first century, is 7 measly years REALLY as good as this technology can get?
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Yeah the density of CO is less than that of air, therefore its lighter than air (but not by much), this article is incorrect.
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on
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02:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC) Actually though co is lighter than air, its diffusivity is high so it mixes in air rapidly.
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The article says there are four, but only lists chemical strips, electrochemical cells and semiconductior types.
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of course), but it will pick up 95% of sensor faults, if the detector is approved to one of these standards.
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respond to the presence of even a small amount of CO. BUT an alarm will most likely not sound with this test.
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1. Smaller concentrations can be harmful over longer periods of time while increasing concentrations
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https://web.archive.org/web/20070814020213/http://www.mudomaha.com/naturalgas/COdetect.html
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affect people and is unlikely to stay that low if an appliance is generating CO.
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I'm confused--the article on carbon monoxide says it's lighter than air! --
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For some unknown reason the sections got removed - I've reinstalled them
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Has anyone seen a salient, believable answer to this point?
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663:Matt McIrvin
660:
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605:— Preceding
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468:
444:Firefighting
435:project page
431:firefighting
423:
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401:Firefighting
371:
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200:project page
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80:
40:WikiProjects
1255:Sourcecheck
1013:172.2.68.87
946:—Preceding
919:—Preceding
579:—Preceding
208:Electronics
196:electronics
152:Electronics
1600:Categories
1587:Report bug
1477:Report bug
1325:Report bug
983:Grimley517
439:discussion
265:Toxicology
1570:this tool
1563:this tool
1460:this tool
1453:this tool
1308:this tool
1301:this tool
1228:dead link
1194:dead link
966:Comirelo
887:Companies
673:Mr Bungle
601:GTBacchus
1576:Cheers.—
1466:Cheers.—
1364:Jack6128
1314:Cheers.—
1048:contribs
1036:unsigned
1009:unsigned
991:contribs
979:unsigned
948:unsigned
921:unsigned
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607:unsigned
581:unsigned
572:Untitled
325:Medicine
260:Medicine
1500:my edit
1390:my edit
1241:checked
1232:tag to
1198:tag to
1160:my edit
1134:jimswen
1118:Anteaus
777:Testing
471:on the
352:on the
235:on the
127:on the
30:C-class
1249:failed
1224:Added
1190:Added
1068:jones
1040:Testem
970:Legals
87:health
36:scale.
878:1990s
635:heard
1368:talk
1357:safe
1245:true
1138:talk
1122:talk
1106:talk
1044:talk
1017:talk
987:talk
956:talk
929:talk
857:talk
836:talk
743:talk
739:Magu
615:talk
589:talk
463:High
89:and
1544:RfC
1514:to
1434:RfC
1404:to
1352:or
1282:RfC
1259:).
1247:or
1218:to
1208:to
1184:to
1174:to
1064:Ron
549:???
344:Low
227:Low
119:Mid
1602::
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42::
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