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religions, political and social views, and so on - coming together and peacefully demonstrating for their democracy and their rights. There is so far no term for something like that and it could be this term that defines these kind of people - a-political, not part of a political party or message but wishing to change the society to make it freer, more inclusive, respecting and protecting diversity in terms of religion, political, economic, and any other views and demonstrating for an environment where people can be as they wish to. Sorry for such a long comment, but I had time to think about this a bit longer
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discussing this, need to be wary of that. Now you say that this topic "will be relevant to future events" but, again I'm sorry to quote here, one thing "you demonstrably have no insight into" is the future. From what I can tell, this is not on a par with King's "I have a dream", instead its more likely to be a one time gaff that sparks a meme. Perhaps its more akin to the
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can be used to show something exists- and secondary sources for what it means and why it bears inclusion. (incidentally, there is an avalanche of primary sources- which presents a quandary: how do we document material that is part of the
Zeitgeist, but hasn't been address in print? The rule should promote- not thwart -our encyclopaedic efforts.)
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1035:. Knowledge should not have articles on neologisms that have only recently been invented. Knowledge is not a disctionary (unlike Wiktionary). It is impossible to assess if a term that has just developed during the last seven days will indeed become a permanent part of the Turkish vocabulary or will vanish as soon as it has emerged.--
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And I hereby retract that comment as "Chapulling", or "Chapuller" becomes a key term. The same arguments I used against fast deletion is still valid: it seems to be a key term to the movement and can become, over time, the definition of peaceful protests of people from across interest groups, faiths,
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don't need more citations; I'm alluding to
Knowledge's guidelines. There are currently four cites, all of which appear to be in Turkish, which is okay, but makes it difficult for some editors on English Knowledge to ascertain their reliability--they may be good, but one editor's say-so in that regard
1974:
NOT chapulling OR çapuling. What anally-retentive grammar-nazi on
Knowledge decided to insert two "ll"s? In longer texts when accompanied by regular Turkish words it might appear as "çapuling", or even return to regular Turkish, in forms like "çapulcunun" and so on. But as a stand-alone word, and in
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Having worked on protest driven articles before, I know how
Knowledge discussions can seem like a proxy for arguments going on in the streets, rather than a discussion of the merits of an article. That's what I think of when I see bolded comments like "CHAPULLING should go on!" and "we", the editors
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The first reference link is a government site, second is reputable news site with an actual video of that event, the third is a joke and might be removed yet wouldn't be considered unreliable but just not encyclopedic, fourth is another video proving its claim, same with the fifth video showing Noam
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Im Übrigen wurde in der Türkei das Wort çapulcu, mit dem
Erdogan die Demonstranten verunglimpfen und in die kriminelle Ecke schieben wollte, aufgegriffen und ist mittlerweile zur ironischen Selbstbezeichnung geworden. Wer zu den Protesten geht, geht nun chapulling oder, türkisch, çapuling und nennt
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I think this might wait separately for a few days until the momentary edits calm down to see how this article will turn up. I think that in the end it'll be added to the protests article but for now we can wait to see it's shaping and it might be provocative towards the pro and anti protest editors
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That's over reaching- context determines the reliability, not vehicle. A link out to the media being referenced (whether
Instagram or Twitter) is permissible as long as the reference isn't the basis of assessing or interpreting- that is where secondary sources are necessary. So, primary sources
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I live in Turkey, am a native Turk and I don't think it's notable. "Where's the beef" at least has some historical worth -- it has survived for nearly thirty years. Chapulling, on the other hand, is merely a few days old. It's easy to lose perspective when you're knee deep in the events. We'll see
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came out of the Wall Street protests in the US. And there were multiple attempts to get that article merged in the early days too. It's a waste of everyone time to keep having to go through discussions like this. There are already news articles directly about this subject. I say leave it as it is
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1) Who is this "we" you speak of? You demonstrably have no insight into my apprehension- so, in addition to yourself, who is the other confused person? 2)Turkish
Knowledge is not our standard of excellence. Should we also follow suit when Turkish Knowledge disdains references, or indulges in
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I think that (as of now anyway) the term is not notable enough to deserve its own entry, but it would definitely deserve a place (a sub-section, perhaps), when merged with the 2013 protests entry. It certainly deserves a place somewhere in the
English Knowledge, but nobody is sure where. We could
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I can agree that we need more citations, but the page is edited so fast that I can't even grasp what information to cite. Also I fear that there might not be enough sources in "English", there should be some reliable ones about the events but not much about the word itself. I believe putting the
1776:
Does TDK publish an official
Turkish to English translation dictionary or define a translation? In Tulaci's rather disreputable Comprehensive Turkish English Dictionary, which brown-nosed to the TDK to the extent that it contains no translations for words the TDK had "demonetised", çapulcu is
1736:) changed the definition of the word "çapulcu" from looter to rebel sometime between 04 Jun 2013, 6:37pm (the last time I personally checked in preparation of an e-mail to an English-speaking friend), and 05 June 2013, 11:35pm (the time newspaper soL woke up to the fact, and
671:- the word has been indelibly tattooed on Turkish culture the same way that the 'I have a dream' speech did American culture: in an instant. The word should have it's own article because it will be relevant to future events that may have no bearing on the past few days.
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Here is an article that examines the word through its semantic shift, explains how its linguistic construction became an identity through the myth of Robin Hood and compares it to the queer movement in the U.S. I think it would greatly improve the wiki page on the word:
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I noticed that there is a "This article needs additional citations for verification." template on this page, please point at which statements you see that requires a citation with a citation needed tag. So far there seems to be enough citations for a small page.
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Incidentally, the word çapulcu, with which
Erdogan wanted to denigrate the demonstrators and push them into the criminal corner, was picked up in Turkey and has become a self-ironic name. People going to the protests are now chapulling or, in Turkish çapuling
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This term became an important catch phrase for the Turkish Chapulcu, making it significant enough for it to be considered as important. Having a neologism spread so fast is remarkable and I would argue that merging a neologism in a crowded article is useless.
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Another point is that there is so much going on on social networks about this term (e.g. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc) that it becomes quite difficult to differentiate. Especially: is it possible to, for example, link a tag from Instagram? for example
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Good points all, especially the current events tag. Much of the editing appears to be motivated by parties interested either in promoting or deleting. If that continues page protection is an option, after which time neutral editors can work more freely.
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Yes - give it some time. The other article is already overloaded and it's not clear whether this has any real long-term significance. It will be much easier to merge later when things have become clearer (it might end up just being one sentence).
1229:: It's an absolute example of neologism in socioeconomic terms. It's in daily life, a part of daily language and even a part in economics at domestic level. There are many applications pending over the rights of the word for commercial purposes.
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down to size so merging the content of this page would be counterproductive. Second of all this is more than a common neologism; it is an important aspect of these highly notable protests, and is therefore notable enough for its own article.
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BTW, since the slogan is based on the "everyday I'm ...in" meme", technically it should be "Everyday I'm Chapulin", and in this form it does appear in an illustration on page 39 of the July-August issue of Turkish magazine "Express".
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I tend to concur that this term is important enough to have its own page, specifically for keeping the documentation readily to hand. Burying it in a larger page would make it hard for people to actually find and make sense of.
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is simply too long as is and will probably get longer as this is an ongoing event. It appears that page may be broken apart into sub-articles. I also think this term is notable enough to have its own article.
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As it seems, vagabond was removed from the description of çapulcu. That being said, an addition of "or" was forgotten, so it would look a lot better if we could add "or" in between "looter" and "marauder".
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The Talk page is a place for musing on how to address the article- especially for seeking guidance or consensus when information gaps are present... such as 'topics that <the author isn't familiar wit:
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The (as was) first reference is an automated translation page, the second is a news site covering Erdogan's original speech but not the neologism, and self-published YouTube videos (even from Chomsky) are
1071:. It's pretty foolish to try to merge an article into a massively long article - an article so long it will soon have to be split, and if merged, this would be a prime candidate for splitting!
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the accusations. Still, at the time of the objection, the noun "çapul" still means loot, yet the agent-noun "çapulcu" does not in any way mean looter, an inconsistency TDK cannot resolve.
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it's not needed to merge this page into another. this is a new word that Turks would like to put in English Dictionaries, meaning resisting against non-democratic movements by politics.
1319:- Knowledge is not a language dictionary. But I've edited the article to say that localised versions of the word are being used by people in other countries to support the movement. --
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This definitely deserves to have it's own page! It already started to have widespread global recognition with examples like , inheritance in the ongoing , etc... So long story short
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is just a long-winded way of saying that it needs coverage in reliable secondary sources. I count currently at least 5 mass media sources mentioning "chapulling" in a headline.
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I worry that we're confusing support for this article with support for the protesters. It's way to soon to see if this has a lasting impact in Turkey, and a short blurb on the
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It would be a lot better if someone could just remove the first "or" in that sentence, which is in between "looter" and "marauder", as there is no point keeping that.
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Chapulling became the catch-phrase of the peaceful demonstrators. You may or may not support them; but it this catch-phrase is worthy enough to have its own article.
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protests against that term. If it has staying power cannot be known the day or two after a quote is made, but lets review it in a month, even a week and see.--
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also wait and see whether this is going to be a short-lasting phenomenon and if not it would then and only then deserve its own entry.
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is already a large article, and has been split (today). Although it is a neologism, it is common enough to warrant its own article.
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capul is from Persian. But +cu is a Turkish. And Knowledge talk pages are not used for speculation of topics that you don't know.
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article? This doesn't seem notable enough for its own article and would be a better fit as a subsection within the other article.
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wiki page is only going to continue to grow and will most likely need to be separated into separate articles due to it's length.
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is not sufficient, especially since the Google searches turn up nothing yet. Per notability guidelines, there needs to be
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The website of one of the most popular newspapers in Turkey report about the Chapulling entry on the English Knowledge.
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http://thedailydirenis.com/2013/06/09/a-sociolinguistic-look-at-chapulcu-chapulcu-identity-utopic-robin-hoods-of-turkey/
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citation-needed tag on spots you notice might help the process a bit. We might need the current event tag on this too.
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First of all it's not Wikitionary and in my opinion capuling does not meet Knowledge's general notability guideline.
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is already quite long and dense as is-- no need to merge neologism content into the an already-crowded article. --
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It seems clear that this is going to be one of the defining terms to come out of the Turkey protests, much like
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to chapul inside: cannot remain calm and quiet against injustice, a storm to be breaking (within one's heart).
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I think that would make sense. Also, this might be considered as an entry for Wiktionary instead of Knowledge.
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I put in 1 sentence referring to Chapulling under protesters. Lets keep it separate, it's long enough already
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and, if in a month's time it hasn't gotten more coverage, then it would be appropriate to suggest a merge.
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Chomsky, and sixth is another reputable news source. Can you point out where you need more citations?
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how the word fares once the events subside, and then the correct judgement will be easier to make.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This stands to show how important a symbol this word has become. This may affect the notability.
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the "Everyday I'm Chapuling" slogan, it is almost always "chapuling" and ALWAYS with one "l".
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You must not be in Turkey if you think its not notable. For an example of Wiki-worthiness, see
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The Erdogan citation was translated in a very biased way instead of a verbatim translation.--
906:- then come back here and make your argument for why this usage does not raise to that level.
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sounds to a modern Turkish speaker as archaic as "vagabond" would to an English speaker? --
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sich chapuller, was auch im Ausland, beispielsweise von Noam Chomsky, aufgegriffen wurde.
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Auf Deutsch: tschapullieren: "Man muss jeden Tag für seine Rechte tschapullieren."
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seems fine, though, if a little brief. More sources definitely wouldn't hurt. --
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where protesters were called "slobs" but took up that as a theme, or to the
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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
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Should be changed to: (roughly translated to "looter" or "marauder")
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Tchapouleur: celui qui tchapoule Tchapouleuse: celle qui tchapoule.
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It's not clear which, if any, constitute reliable sources, per
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Turkish Language Association changes definition of "çapulcu"
1401:- these particular interpretations would need a source. --
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Edit request on 9 June 2013 - More on Chapulcu, Chapuling
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It doesn't seem like you've looked at the sources in the
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Original: (roughly translated to "looter", "marauder")
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and trigger unwanted spam of vandalism from both sides.
1806:'Chapulling': Turkish protesters spread the edgy word
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Small-edit request on the first paragraph, 07 06 2013
101:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1545:He does love to use Ottoman-Turkish, doesn't he.
1526:- is this last part trying to say that the word
1777:translated as "raider, marrauder, pillager".
1423:http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/39/39272/1.html
1093:. It is not an argument against the merger. --
718:seems fine for now. We should also watch the
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720:deletion discussion on the Turkish Knowledge
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1421:Please add following link to references:
1602:'. McGeddon's question is appropriate.
322:coverage by multiple reliable sources.
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1371:Derived phrase verbs of the term are;
1085:That's an argument for condensing the
1132:. First of all we are trying to keep
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2045:Pages in the Knowledge Top 25 Report
828:. It is remarkable linguistically.--
497:Why shouldn't this be a part of the
95:This article is within the scope of
1583:http://tr.wiktionary.org/%C3%A7apul
296:until someone reports on them. The
175:. The week in which this happened:
38:It is of interest to the following
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1417:2. Edit request on June 6, 2013
1091:WP:Knowledge is not a newspaper
533:I totally agree to Mavromatis.
139:This article has been rated as
2035:Low-importance Turkey articles
1834:. Not sure we need it though.
1:
1738:published an article about it
113:and see a list of open tasks.
2040:All WikiProject Turkey pages
1730:Turkish Language Association
119:Knowledge:WikiProject Turkey
2030:Start-Class Turkey articles
1880:to reactivate your request.
1868:has been answered. Set the
1832:Thank you, my chapuller son
1365:to reactivate your request.
1353:has been answered. Set the
1335:Edit request on 6 June 2013
1283:to reactivate your request.
1271:has been answered. Set the
1253:Edit request on 5 June 2013
122:Template:WikiProject Turkey
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145:project's importance scale
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1519:Translation as "vagabond"
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967:Let's keep them separate.
669:support separate articles
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1154:merge. As it stands the
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984:Let's keep them separate
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826:Let's keep them separate
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810:Let's keep them seperate
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793:Let's keep them separate
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745:original research? Not!
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597:CHAPULLING should go on!
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1454:Roughly translated as:
1156:2013 protests in Turkey
1134:2013 protests in Turkey
1087:2013 protests in Turkey
1016:2013 protests in Turkey
847:2013 protests in Turkey
762:2011 Wisconsin protests
716:2013 protests in Turkey
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470:2013 protests in Turkey
1757:Later in the day, TDK
28:This article is rated
1830:this is quite sweet:
1499:Thanks, appreciated.
1951:Citation translation
298:Hurriyet news source
191:Citation Requirement
1811:The Express Tribune
1022:A Certain White Cat
1970:It is "chapuling"!
693:Knowledge can wait
535:Güzel günler yakın
98:WikiProject Turkey
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1313:
1278:
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1167:
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216:
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1976:
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1930:
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454:193.140.215.151
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193:
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124:
121:
118:
115:
114:
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32:on Knowledge's
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1971:
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1947:
1895:
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1881:
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1846:
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1826:
1816:78.177.176.119
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1798:
1797:
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1723:
1722:
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1418:
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1367:
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1289:For French :
1285:
1284:
1265:
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1249:
1224:
1207:We are the 99%
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1188:Chauahuasachca
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813:LardoBalsamico
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789:
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787:
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785:
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774:
739:
738:
728:
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685:
684:
683:
643:
642:
641:
626:
593:
592:
591:
562:
561:
560:
545:
484:78.176.166.119
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466:
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442:
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440:
439:
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437:
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434:
433:
432:
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273:
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192:
189:
186:
185:
183:
182:
176:
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157:
156:
153:
152:
149:
148:
141:Low-importance
137:
131:
130:
128:
111:the discussion
107:related topics
94:
93:
77:
65:
64:
62:Low‑importance
56:
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37:
26:
13:
10:
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3:
2:
2057:
2046:
2043:
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2038:
2036:
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2027:
2025:
2015:
2011:
2007:
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1996:
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1994:
1992:
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1984:
1980:
1969:
1967:
1966:
1962:
1958:
1950:
1946:
1941:
1934:
1933:
1923:
1919:
1911:
1910:
1909:
1908:
1904:
1900:
1896:
1893:
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1879:
1876:parameter to
1867:
1863:
1856:
1855:
1849:
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1841:
1837:
1833:
1829:
1828:
1825:
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1813:
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1754:
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1705:Appreciated.
1704:
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1352:
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1270:
1266:
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1227:Keep separate
1225:
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1204:
1203:Keep separate
1201:
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687:I agree with
686:
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660:
656:
652:
648:
644:
640:
636:
632:
627:
623:
619:
618:99.149.85.229
615:
610:
606:
602:
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594:
590:
586:
582:
577:
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563:
559:
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426:
422:
417:
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415:
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407:
406:99.149.85.229
403:
401:As seen here
400:
398:
394:
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389:99.149.85.229
386:
385:
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383:
382:
378:
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359:
355:
354:99.149.85.229
350:
349:
348:
344:
340:
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334:
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325:
324:99.149.85.229
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316:
313:
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311:
307:
303:
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295:
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288:
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283:
279:
271:
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263:
262:99.149.85.229
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228:
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174:
173:Top 25 Report
170:
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146:
142:
136:
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129:
112:
108:
104:
100:
99:
91:
90:Turkey portal
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78:
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66:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
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2006:93.97.143.19
2000:— Preceding
1983:93.97.143.19
1977:— Preceding
1973:
1954:
1925:
1917:
1897:
1894:
1889:
1885:
1877:
1866:edit request
1809:
1785:93.97.143.19
1779:— Preceding
1756:
1742:
1728:
1707:Bora Aydeniz
1681:
1662:Bora Aydeniz
1660:
1657:
1654:
1650:
1624:93.97.143.19
1618:— Preceding
1561:Bora Aydeniz
1527:
1523:
1522:
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1448:
1447:
1429:— Preceding
1426:
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1378:Ozgurozansen
1373:
1370:
1362:
1351:edit request
1315:
1294:
1291:
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1269:edit request
1226:
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1161:
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1129:
1068:
1028:
1011:
992:— Preceding
983:
953:Bora Aydeniz
948:
929:88.250.177.3
923:— Preceding
881:
851:HectorMoffet
842:
825:
809:
792:
711:
668:
646:
612:— Preceding
596:
496:
478:— Preceding
474:
448:— Preceding
445:
319:
314:
274:
239:
227:76.173.219.1
221:— Preceding
218:
200:— Preceding
194:
140:
96:
40:WikiProjects
1184:Own article
1139:Philpill691
797:Azirlazarus
468:Merge into
320:substantial
258:WP:RELIABLE
30:Start-class
2024:Categories
1870:|answered=
1800:A citation
1501:Imdatsolak
1460:Imdatsolak
1355:|answered=
1273:|answered=
1109:chapulling
689:Mavromatis
581:Imdatsolak
566:Imdatsolak
521:Mavromatis
373:Imdatsolak
339:Mavromatis
294:WP:PRIMARY
278:Mavromatis
243:Mavromatis
219:Idiotic.
1918:Not done:
1836:Podiaebba
1604:Mavigogun
1186:please.--
1113:Podiaebba
1111:article.
1073:Podiaebba
1054:Podiaebba
1050:WP:NOTNEO
1033:WP:NOTNEO
908:Mavigogun
747:Mavigogun
673:Mavigogun
655:Triesault
601:Agnichuck
550:Podiaebba
421:Mavigogun
2002:unsigned
1979:unsigned
1922:WP:BLOGS
1781:unsigned
1687:McGeddon
1620:unsigned
1547:NeoRetro
1532:McGeddon
1485:McGeddon
1431:unsigned
1403:McGeddon
1398:Not done
1321:McGeddon
1316:Not done
994:unsigned
989:Goutlard
969:Sbasturk
925:unsigned
867:NeoRetro
766:SlutWalk
614:unsigned
480:unsigned
450:unsigned
302:McGeddon
223:unsigned
202:unsigned
1528:çapulcu
1239:Umi1903
770:Patrick
724:Patrick
503:Capscap
143:on the
1759:denied
1585:-: -->
1296:Ilkerz
1213:Silver
1160:Martin
1152:Oppose
1012:Oppose
697:Nimuaq
667:I too
116:Turkey
103:Turkey
59:Turkey
36:scale.
1957:Homei
1939:Meep?
1899:Xorba
1874:|ans=
1864:This
1808:from
1763:Okans
1745:Okans
1588:Kavas
1359:|ans=
1349:This
1277:|ans=
1267:This
1218:seren
1029:Merge
886:Kavas
882:Merge
712:Merge
2010:talk
1987:talk
1961:talk
1924:. --
1920:per
1903:talk
1840:talk
1820:talk
1789:talk
1767:talk
1749:talk
1711:talk
1691:talk
1682:Done
1666:talk
1628:talk
1608:talk
1592:talk
1565:talk
1551:talk
1536:talk
1505:talk
1489:talk
1480:Done
1464:talk
1439:talk
1407:talk
1382:talk
1325:talk
1300:talk
1243:talk
1192:talk
1175:talk
1143:talk
1117:talk
1099:talk
1095:RJFF
1077:talk
1058:talk
1041:talk
1037:RJFF
1031:per
1002:talk
973:talk
957:talk
933:talk
912:talk
890:talk
871:talk
855:talk
834:talk
817:talk
801:talk
751:talk
701:talk
677:talk
659:talk
635:talk
622:talk
605:talk
585:talk
570:talk
554:talk
539:talk
525:talk
507:talk
488:talk
458:talk
425:talk
410:talk
393:talk
377:talk
358:talk
343:talk
328:talk
306:talk
282:talk
266:talk
247:talk
231:talk
210:talk
105:and
1931:Hef
1872:or
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1734:TDK
1601:-->
1357:or
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135:Low
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1878:no
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1363:no
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1281:no
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1235:,
1232:,
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1177:)
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1137:--
1119:)
1101:)
1079:)
1060:)
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1019:--
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1004:)
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147:.
42::
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