Talk:Chinese Democracy/Archive 3

452:

and online at Bestbuy.com and iTunes. A music video is in the works, and the band — in which Rose is the only remaining original member — is expected to tour in 2009, according to a source close to G N’ R. “The music is well worth waiting for,” says Gary Arnold, senior entertainment officer for Best Buy, which began negotiating the deal in 2007. “We’ve all heard the stories about this album, and now everybody gets to hear that it’s real.” The album’s 14 songs include the poppy “Better,” the industrial rocker “Shackler’s Revenge” (featured in the new Rock Band 2), the power ballad “If the World” (which plays in the new film Body of Lies), the anthemic title track and a song called “Scraped” that was previously unknown to fans. “It’s going to be a great rock Christmas,” Arnold says. “I just hope it doesn’t take 14 years for the next one.” Bestbuy.com has a listings page up that isn’t taking pre-orders yet but does suggest that there will be several different versions of the album available (or at least a few different covers).

256:

what's getting published. Why are people so hell bent to present this date as the real, no doubt about it, release date. It has not been confirmed. The sources all say it's not confirmed, and there has been a long history of bogus release dates. Yet some people are still hard about not having the word "unofficial" anywhere near this stupid date. Because Best Buy says so? I was trying to settle the dispute by finding ways to allow this erroneous date at all, but if that's not good enough for you, we'll just go back to "TBA" and fight it out. Please d not remove the word "unofficial again until there is an official announcement from GNR or Geffin.

1899:(near) future of the album. What I wanted to ask is that, when it says in the Billboard article about the 23 nov release date that: "As such, "Chinese Democracy" would not be eligible to chart on The Billboard 200 until the week of Dec. 1, according to Nielsen SoundScan". Obviously, this means that if they had wanted CD to follow billboards way of calculating - and still wanted to hit the charts at Dec 1, they'd have chosen Tuesday the 25th ("rather than the usual Tuesday"). I'm not really sure about whether I'm really correct on this, as I'm not American and therefor not used to your system, but fundamentally the point is that: 230:

course, we all know that release dates are subject to change. Look at the time it took AC/DC to release Black Ice and Metallica's Death Magnetic and everyone seems to forget that it's been over 10 years since we had any new material from Kiss. When Chinese Democracy is released on November 23, all the doubters will be eating crow and Billboard wouldn't print rumors. Chinese Democracy is going to be released because it's time for Axl to put up or shut up. Either he releases album or quits the record business. I'm tired of all the delays. He needs to put out the album already. I just wish it was the Use Your Illusion lineup.

31: 685:

station as an internet leak and Better was featured in a Harley-Davidson commercial that was subsequently pulled. I want this album- but I have wonder if I will actually get it- because nothing has been said about a Canadian release. I have to wonder if this album will be brilliant or a bomb? Time will tell if the album actually gets released on November 23, 2008. I'd still like to hear a single from the album or a music video.

3609:

buy. Okay, personal feelings aside, making an album over the course of 15 years isn't an experiment, and driving members away isn't experimental... Sonic Youth, Radiohead, Butthole Surfers, Xiu Xiu, Jay Reatard and so many others could be considered Experimental because they take chances and try something new in the hopes of creating something, where I say that there were zero chances taken here. --

323:

the excitement by officially confirming the deal and the date. Until then it is reasonable to tag the release date as at least unofficial otherwise, as Noit mentioned above, we can mislead people into believing that the date is officially confirmed and we wouldn't want to do that, right? Best Buy, like it or not, are not the official spokespeople for either Gn'R or Geffen.

2308:) 15:56, 18 November 2008 (UTC) its not a trilogy! its two albums. axl said it on the 1st or 2nd online chat. he said something like "we've recorded music for chinese and its follow up." he said in 06 that they had 32 songs. im guessing the next album will have 18. also, in the spinner interview, he said they didnt have 4 albums and baz was wrong. 615:

finally released on November 23 because Axl needs to stop talking about it and actually release the album. I have to wonder if Geffen will actually get the money back that it cost to make this trouble-plagued album. It is the album that I want more than any other album. Was it worth the wait and the countless lineup changes?

552:

trusted magazine. I know release dates are subject to change. The album will be released on November 23, 2008 and all the doubters will be eating crow. The album will be released on November 23, 2008 and there is no dispute about it. If I am right about the album being released on November 23, an apology is in order.

994:, with no announcement by Guns N' Roses or any verifiable news organisation in regards to a track list. This kind of thing generally isn't a reliable source, especially since the track list was just added to Best Buy's site with no other details or confirmation from Best Buy on the album's exclusivity, etc. 2591:

One final thing, can you guys get rid of SPIN's rating, the review itself is a joke. They give NO info on the album, took some cracks at Bush, told us of our obvious Economic position, and that was it. It is a joke review and does not belong on that. Read it for yourselves, it's the worst review ever

2295:

Baz didn't say that Chinese Democracy was the first of a trilogy of albums. He said that the general was part of a lyrical trilogy of songs, and that there was more in the region of 4 albums. he don't know anything abou these albums, they may be songs he doesn't want to release or anything, but their

1158:

so can we please make the tracklisting this :1. Chinese Democracy, 2. Shackler's Revenge, 3. Better, 4. Street Of Dreams, 5. If The World, 6. There Was A Time, 7. Catcher N' The Rye, 8. Scraped, 9. Riad N' The Bedouins, 10. Sorry, 11. I.R.S., 12. Madagascar, 13. This I Love, 14. Prostitute, seeing as

775:

Can someone who has edit permission on the page please change the Canadian release information? The article's first paragraph incorrectly states that the album will only be available through Best Buy in Canada. In fact, the Best Buy exclusive is ONLY for the United States. In every other market on

416:

is were I originally saw the information, and they were citing a specific RollingStone article. The link does not work there either. Also I tried searching on RollingStone for the article, and cannot find it. A retracted statement maybe? I don't know why it's gone, but it certainly was there earlier.

306:

Why are people so hell bent to present this date as the real no doubt about it release date. It has not been confirmed. The sources all say it's not confirmed. and there has been a long history of bogus release dates. Yet some people are still hard about not having the word "unofficial" anywhere near

158:

Yeah, but everything in the current status section has an official response to it, whereas this is an entirely unsubstantiated rumour. The first paragraph has a response from the band's then manager, Merck Mercuriadis; the last paragraph has a response from Eddie Trunk, who is the only person to have

3608:

There is nothing about this album that coincides with Experimental Rock. Well, there's one thing; much of the genre of Experimental Rock does suck... Unless this is a larger style of Experimental Rock as yet unknown, where the artist is running an experiment to see just how much crap the public will

3303:

Gutman adds: "The entire point of your campaign has been to use public interest in Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses as a lure to increase consumer awareness of Dr Pepper." He further states that "mocking undertones" in the online promotional content represent a "raw and damaging commercial exploitation of

1914:

B) the two days (I calculated it to 2, as I said, I'm not sure that's right, but the number really doesn't matter) BEFORE the week that is eligible for charting the 1st, DON'T COUNT AT ALL, seeing as they belong to the earlier week - where CD isn't eligible to chart, as it arrives too late - and not

829:

Since Travelling Tragition's has taken full ownership of this article and will be reverting all edits back to his own last contribution, I suggest that we all just leave it up to him to decide what is best for everybody. Please do not edit this article unless you want to enter into a revert war with

451:

It’s a day many Guns N’ Roses fans thought would never come: Chinese Democracy, the album Axl Rose has labored over for more than a decade, will finally hit stores on Sunday, November 23rd (a departure from the normal Tuesday record release day). The album will be sold exclusively in Best Buy stores

84:

Unless I'm missing some info, it seems that the consensus here is leaning toward calling November 25 the release date. Sure there have been official bogus release dates in the past, but that's not really for us to interpret. "TBA" means "To be announced" and if there has been a date announced, even

3850:

The second article you posted said nothing about falling out, just saying the first week sales were disappointing, and the first one said it'd drop out of the UK Top 5 on December 6th, well, it's the 7th where I live, and even later than that in the UK, and it's still at 2, so I guess it was wrong?

3292:

Rose did not take any action when, in March, Dr Pepper put out a press release offering free soda to any American if the long-awaited Guns N' Roses album came out before the end of 2008. However, Rose has reacted to the news that fans have been unable to get their soda following the Nov. 23 release

2640:

Yes, without wanting to sound annoyed or whining (cos' I'm not), some of the reviews that I suggested but which were turned down, were more professional than the Observers (obviously, since it isn't really a review). No blame to whoever added it, but it would make the most sense to have it removed,

2385:

The fledgling music review site onethirtybpm.com has reviewed the album and given it a very favorable 4/5 review. The review has been noted by fans on various Guns N' Roses web forums as one of the best-written reviews so far of the album, and therefore it should be added to the reviews section for

1908:

A) CD has the extra couple of days + the usual week to gather the sales that will place it upon the chart. By my - admittedly uncertain - calculation above, that means the 'week' starting the 25th PLUS the 23th and 24th. That is, in conclusion: CD will have two more days than any of its competitors

1898:

Note: anyone taking offense at my using this place to ask a question, should rather be flattered, since I'm doing it out of the serious belief that the best minds of the internet concerning matters of CD <are assembled here. Also, this is in a way relevant to the article, since it relates to the

1766:

I don’t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It’s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way.

1712:

the entire section talking about Slash and Duff recording/complaining about Axl etc should be removed. I think a distinction must be made between the old lineup's recording of music and the Chinese Democracy album/project that began with a different lineup at a later date because such a distinction

1270:

Why? This article is about Chinese Democracy, not songs that aren't on it. Besides, there are supposedly hundreds of songs that have been worked on for this album, and given that this article is already longer than most album articles -- and it hasn't even been released yet -- I don't see any point

322:

I agree. The phrasing in all of these sources is not conclusive beyond a reasonable doubt. So until we hear it from the horse's mouth it is prudent to label the release date as unofficial. I can't see the reason why Geffen wouldn't want to announce their alleged deal with Best Buy and contribute to

114:

Erm.. if you don't like reverting vandalism to the article, apply for page protection. A copious amount of unhelpful edits is not an excuse to put rumours into the article. Nothing has been confirmed in regards to its release date; if people want to find out the "latest flimsy promise," they can go

3285:

Gutman's letter makes clear his view that the original campaign was an "exploitation of my clients' legendary reputation and their eagerly awaited album" and "brazenly violated our clients' rights." He is also seeking an "appropriate payment... for the unauthorized use and abuse of their publicity

2584:

I've got two things. Since I can't edit the article I was wondering if someone can add in the Australia ARIA charting into the main Chinese Democracy article, it's bugging me, where the other three chart performances are. And underneath where it says the first single was released on October 22, in

1665:

Any sources? I think you're right that 98/99 was the time when they came up with the album title, remember reading somewhere the title track was written around that time (so prolly wouldn't have had that title before then). But just because the album didn't have a title, or had a different working

271:

How can the MTV article be used as a source when it uses language like, "more and more likely", "With the site reporting a firm release date, it seems Chinese Democracy is finally imminent, but without label confirmation, the report could just be the latest in a long string of rumors." and best of

255:

None of what you've said has anything to do with the published release date on Knowledge (XXG). It is not a fact that the album is coming out on Nov. 23. It is a fact that Billboard has tentatively hinted that they heard somewhere that that was a date the album may come out. That's the fact that's

4174:

Some people claim to have seen the album with a PA at one time or another. I, having been at Best Buy to get the album the first day it came out and not seeing the sticker on any copy whatsoever, strongly contest those claims! If anyone thinks the lack of a PA is original research, bring it up on

3658:

The article seems like some sort of tabloid newspapaer. It seems to hold no merit at all. The other articles that are linked to the article are silly, nonsense, and so incredibly stupid. Use this article if you want, but it seems like a bunch of crap if you ask me. It may be from a reliable, good

2669:

Don't know if I'll get in trouble for it, but I definitely removed that lame Observer review. I'll wait for a call on SPIN's... I just feel the review is from someone who has never heard the album and is judging it on the two singles, gave no details on any other songs. Also, anyone think there's

2358:

There will be a Follow-Up to Chinese Democracy, Axl himself said that he thoughts of Chinese Democracy as a "Double". This is as close to Official Confirmation as we'll get from Axl. It is a double, this implies that for the past 15 years or so, they have been working on more than just 14 songs.

1849:

I would again like to add that I think - since we are obviously not in agreement about the wording of the sentence and the factual accuracy of what it means - it would be best if the statement reads "Guns N' Roses began writing and recording new material in 1994", so as to stop this spilling over

551:

Oh ye of little faith. I have faith that the album will be released on November 23. The official track listing has been announced. There are 14 tracks on the album. The fact that there is a Guns N' Roses song, "Shackler's Revenge" and the fact that Billboard, which is the music industry's most

229:

When it comes to the release of new albums- there is only place that I trust for accuracy of release dates and that's Billboard magazine. I have been into music since I was kid and my tastes vary from Slayer to Garth Brooks. I believe that Guns N' Roses will release the album on November 23. Of

4764:

I am asking how to handle the disagreement between me and another editor over whether the reviews for the album have been "mixed" or "mixed to positive". The other editor says that "mixed" infers positive, like in a range or average, but I say a mixed review is one that is neither unfavorable or

1525:

This did not start in 1994, as this article currently states. The album (or rather just a set of songs, really) they had begun to work on was not part of the Chinese Democracy project, and the work they'd done was incomplete. Chinese Democracy as an album/project began in 1998/1999. I'd edit the

1044:

Would it not be worthy information to note that Best Buy has put up a release date, along with track information, although mentioning that nothing official has been said by the media or the band? This album has been 13 years in the making. A placeholder on Best Buy's website with cover art and a

614:

I have my doubts that it will actually be released on November 23, 2008. I'll admit that I have the "I'll believe when I see it attitude". The fact that the album is a Best Buy exclusive makes me wonder if the album is the masterpiece that Axl wants us to believe that it is. I hope the album is

4804:

According to the Billboard round up for the year 2009 Chinese Democracy sold more that Working on a Dream by Bruce Springsteen. Seen as this album sold in excess of 600,000 copies in 2009 is it not safe to assume that Chinese Democracy has sold more than the 600,000 quote on this page? Remember

4358:

Again, the point is moot regardless to what HexaChord is saying above. The lack of perceived censorship is not important information. Should it also have a sentence in the opening paragraph stating that this is the first GNR album without Slash and Duff as well since this is the first GNR album

1703:

I understand what you're saying, but the statement "Recording for Chinese Democracy began in 1994" is just incorrect and shouldn't be there. Nowhere has any band member said "we began recording for Chinese Democracy in 94". It's misleading and just not true. The name Chinese Democracy was never

684:

If the album is going to be released on November 23, 2008, why is there no single to promote the album? Why is there no music video to promote the album? Shackler's Revenge is included in Rock Band 2, but that's not the official single from the album is? I know I.R.S was a TOP 50 hit on a rock

1383:

The entire history and touring section and a lot of stuff from the current status section could be put into a 'History of Chinese Democracy' article, and we could replace it with just a few paragraphs for the main article. I'm definitely in favour of this idea. I think that, once the album is

3281:

Beverly Hills-based Alan Gutman has written to Dr Pepper Snapple Group Inc. president and CEO Larry Young, accusing the company of operating an online redemption scheme that was an "unmitigated disaster which defrauded customers." Gutman is demanding that Dr Pepper makes good on its offer by

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clear that this is a departure from the band's original sound. Making hard rock at one point in time doesn't mean their future albums will have the same style. Since it hasn't been released yet, and there are no sources to use for the album's genre, we should keep it as simple as possible.

3949:

I agree. If they can't even do a decent job of reviewing games, which is their supposed area of expertise, they shouldn't be taken seriously as music critics. I'm not a huge G'n'R fan, but Chinese Democracy was pretty good, and there were certainly MUCH worse albums that came out in 2008.

4311:

I think there's more significant things about this album to divide it from earlier releases than some sticker on the jewel case. If you have a good source for an analysis of the album's lyrics - maybe compared to the earlier albums - you might include it. A missing sticker is not.

3770:

not to long ago the album finally made it past the million mark. i'd like to change it but i don't know how to change the link. i'm sorry. still new to this. can anyone do it for me and find out how much it's sold globally as well? does anyone know if the record has gone gold yet?

2736:

OK here's the deal, i went to Sanity today (a music store) and in my hot little hands right now I have a copy of Chinese Democracy. Apparently according to the shopkeeper it came out a few days ago. Here's some pictures: Picture of the cd in its case, with the booklet beside it:

875:

If the travtrag is reading this I would suggest that he edits the 'ecstatic' word describing how the new york audience reacted to his performance at the mtv movie awards 2002. that is incredibly biased. i'm sure someone else will eventually edit it if it isn't done properly.

431:

The Rolling Stone article was taken down about an hour after its publication. Since it was removed, we can't really cite it as a source until it's posted to the Rolling Stone website once again (which it probably will be). Here's the entire article if anyone wants to read

3683:

I think we should remove that section, to be honest. It's all rumours; if it turns out to be true, we can integrate it into a section about its reception, since its poor sales are being blamed on his supposed disappearance -- it doesn't warrant its own section at all.

709:

hey jason just cuz your a canadian as well i suggest you go to your local best buy and have them search chinese democracy in their system , not their website, and it will come up and say its being released november 23rd :D cheers, Tyson Lee from Saint Catharines

1159:

best buy has officially made the album for preorder and this is stil the tracklist? it seems very silly keeping the leak table as the tracklist and not having some of the confirmed songs we should make this page have the track listing now for real. Tyson Lee

661:

Our local portland rock station KUFO confirmed the date as well and also said that in addition to the album cover displayed on best buys website, there will also be a vinyl version and 2 alternate covers... i think that sounds real enough to not be made up.

1939:

Just noticed the search string 'chinese democracy' goes to the 'chinese democracy movement' page rather than here. Would it make sense for this to be the default page as the album is about to be released, and the other is a different string of text anyway?

1915:

to the first week in which CD IS eligible to chart. Therefore the extra couple of days - the first days of release even, where we must suspect that the sales are strongest, will not be counted ANYWHERE and this will severely limit CD's chances on the chart

958:

Actually, Best Buy isn't cited anywhere in the article, and -- in both my opinion and according to previous consensus -- we shouldn't use it. In the past, we haven't used Amazon, Play, etc. as sources since the consensus is that online retailers fail

1919:

Sorry for the novel-size essay, but I'm not particularly fluent at English, so thought it better to describe my question at full length instead of just quickly putting it out and risking misinterpretation. Anybody has the answer? Thanks very much in

159:

interviewed Axl Rose in the past 8 years and regularly has contact with Ron Thal, and a quote from Axl's assistant/housekeeper. This is just another of literally hundreds of unconfirmed rumours and the only thing that adds fuel to this rumour is the

1067:

I don't like using this as a source since there was no article or press release by Best Buy or the band about the track listing, album art, etc. Although I personally think this is the correct track listing, I don't think this source satisfies

1816: 1707:

What would be more appropriate (in my opinion) would be to alter the Date recorded line to "1998-2007", and the article should read something along the lines of "The band began writing and recording writing and recording new music in 1994".

3180:

The free Dr. Pepper deal doesn't even mention Chinese Democracy on their page for some reason...and I think it should also be mentioned how their servers are unable to handle the volume of traffic attempting to get their free Dr. Pepper.

905:

01. Chinese Democracy 02. Scraped 03. Shackler's Revenge 04. Street Of Dreams 05. If The World 06. Better 07. This I Love 08. There Was A Time 09. Riad N' The Bedovins 10. Sorry 11. I.R.S. 12. Catcher 13. Madagascar 14. Prostitute

3296:

Dr Pepper's Web servers crashed under the demand for coupons that could be exchanged for free drinks. Dr Pepper extended the Nov. 23 promotion for an extra day, but the company's Web site was inaccessible for a substantial part of it.

4661:

if someone doesn't change the word 'ecstatic' in describing the reaction of the new york mtv crowd to GnR in 2002, I eventually will. it's totally out of order for an encyclopedic entry, and demonstrates a great deal of bias.

4190:

It's not a matter of it being a "controversy" or not, it's just not important. Other albums have a similar amount of "strong language" on them and don't have lines stating that they don't have parental advisory labels on them.

2702:

No. Whenever an album comes out there's usually like 10 reviews or something...This actually happens with anything; albums, movies, books, etc. Although soon usually what happens is they edit the reviews down to like 4 or so.

1384:

released, we'll struggle to keep a balance between pre- and post-release text, and this idea would certainly make it a lot easier to do this without deleting a lot of good information and making the article far too long.

4154:

Guns n Roses's music and image doesn't really seem like an alternative rock band. Alt rock tends to be heavily punk-derived and less commercial look and "polished sound" of glam metal. THink sonic youth, pixies, REM.

3115:

Yeah it would be interesting to know a little about them. I'd love to know if "This I Love" is in any way connected with the trio of "Don't Cry", "November Rain" and "Estranged". It was written back in 1994 afterall

307:

this stupid date. Because Best Buy says so? I was trying to settle the depute by finding ways to allow this erroneous date at all, but if that's not good enough for you, we'll just go back to "TBA" and fight it out.

3277:

Guns N' Roses' and Axl Rose's lawyer has castigated Dr Pepper, accusing the soda maker of failing to deliver on its "Chinese Democracy" (Black Frog/Geffen) free soda promotion, which the band was never involved in.

3236:

Well it was worth a free drink at least. That the company wanted to prevent too much free drinks by only allowing people to register on Sunday what had to slow down the website loading is another thing...

3591:

No sources have called it experimental rock, so no. Because... it, well, isn't experimental. Besides, taking a long time to make and having lots of line-up changes doesn't make something experimental...

3383:

I agree. Yes, there were too many reviews before, but the Klosterman in AVclub (or whatever the name was) should be one of those that stayed. The PopMatters one is far less informative than Klostermans.

1868:

People should understand the difference between "working on" (writing, discussing etc.) and actually "recording" - but also "recording" could mean recording ideas not really songs ending on an album. --

3037:

Canoe.ca is listed under Knowledge (XXG)'s accepted review sites and Darryl Sterdan is the top music critic for the Sun Media group in Canada. Definately seems fit to include in this article Thanks.

618:

geffen will be making all its money back through sales and the best buy exclusive has guaranteed it buy buyinga certain amount of copies giving them everything they paid into it plus money from sales

1468:

If anyone can help trim the current main article of some overdetailed sentences, and move them to History, that would help a lot. I am still cleaning up some refs, but most of the hard stuff is done.

1337:

According to rolling stone there is a music video in the works right now. And shouldnt we post that promo videos were taken from popflashproductions containing clips from one possibly two new songs?

941: 3791:

Since the article seems so quick to judge CD a failure based on US and UK charts, why not be a little more respectful of sales in other countries and note that CD is #1 in Europe AND #1 GLOBALLY?

192:

You're really going to save yourself a lot of grief by adding somewhere a speculative date section. I would do it, but since you've taken ownership of this page, I'll just wait for you to do it.

2832:

It should be noted that Robin Finck and Brain are no longer members of Guns N' Roses,they are not even listed on the Guns N' Roses official website or the official Guns N' Roses MySpace page.

749:

There's now a confirmed single from the album, the title track "Chinese Democracy", which will recieve airplay as of 6am Eastern Time on October 22nd, and will be released on October 27th

2556:

I see Billboard on that list. Will the Billboard review, I linked above, be added then? Thx (btw, I see your point in regards to other reviews, cheers for the good job on the article so far)

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Our local Portland, Oregon radio station "Rock 101.1 KUFO" stated that Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich would be featured in GNR's music video for "Better". Can anyone confirm/deny this?

2588:

Also, I notice all of the discussions about reviews on here, but none are on the album's page itself. You guys should make a section for "Reception" and post excerps from the reviews.

3224:

The Dr Pepper thing was nothing more than worthless trivia in the first place, we certainly don't need to mention something as unimportant as its website isn't working at the moment.

3074:

I think we should include a short paragraph about the songs with no articles on this page. These songs have been around since the 90s and I believe they each merit their own section.

4398: 2717:

I remember Black Ice was like that as well. 15 reviews and oh my god (no pun intended towards lost gnr track). It's better to edit them down slowly (like with removing the Observer)

943:

included? Even if not quite as certain as the list of songs we have, shouldn't it at least be shown as a possibility? I mean, we cite BestBuy elsewhere, why not trust them on this?

2161:

The radio station Q 104.3 in New York just added the track "Better" to their website and other radio stations are claiming they're going to start playing it at 11 AM this morning.

1089:? Since the current track listing table uses official sources -- Axl Rose, press releases, etc. -- I think it would be inconsistent to add Best Buy's track listing to the article. 1631:

began in the late 90s. To say that it began in 1994 is factually inaccurate because they hadn't been writing or recording for the sake of that album. Sorry, needs to be changed.

3465:

to promote this album? I've heard of no music videos, televised performances, upcoming tour dates, etc.? And why do they insist on releasing it exclusively through Best Buy? --

1101: 528: 3387:

I also enjoyed the ChartAttack one. I know the site may not be huge enough for the review to stay, but if it's possible, I'd like that review to stay here as well. cheers

1572:

There are sources that say Chinese Democracy (specifically) began its recording in 1994? That sounds interesting, never read that, can you give me a link or something?

4281:

Because GNR's other studio albums received Parental Advisory labels, BUT NOT THIS ONE! And the only place to find it is Best Buy if you're looking for it in retail. --

3088:

I agree. There's so much background info on all of these songs. From being in movies to sounds to extra musicians that were supposed to be/are featured on the song.

577:

I think you're missing the point of this discussion. It has nothing to do with one's own opinion regarding the release date; it's about the verifiability of sources.

4200: 1903:

Because of its odd release date, there goes more than a week before CD is eligible to chart. What I want to ask is: which of the following two scenarios then apply:

1767:

We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that’s the reason why that material got scrapped.

1301:

Isn't it confirmed that Rose, Buckethead and Costanzo are the writers/composers for the song Scraped it is on the BMI repertoire site listed as Lies They Tell? (

3746:

I clicked on the link and it says David Cook's album is at #3, it isn't on there anywhere, does the actual magazine get distributed before the website updates?

3442:

They gave 4/10 to Chinese Democracy although the review is not on their website, it's on the issue of 19/11/2008. I think NME review score should be added. --

3051:

As well, Allmusic's review has been published under GNR'S discography page (as opposed to just their site's blog). A rating (4/5) has also been assigned. URL:

85:

if it is a promise that will soon be broken, I think anyone coming to the Chinese Democracy article is just looking for what the latest flimsy promise anyway.

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No, the album hit #3 last week. I hate to tell you this, but the album dropped all the way to #18 as of right now. This should be included on the main page.

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The New Yorker also incorrectly assumes that any music made was part of the Chinese Democracy project. As I've shown (and you ignored) this is not the case.

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I think we have alot of things that need to be edited like pronto like we now have a tracklisting the fact it will have three covers AND the release date

3924:

The article says that IGN placed Chinese Democracy as the worst album of the year but I certainly don't think IGN is a legitimate source for reviewing

3282:

extending the period for the offer; he also wants full-page apologies in The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, USA Today and The Wall Street Journal.

2585:

the Current Status section, can someone add info on when the leaks on the band's MySpace page came out and info on when Better was released (Nov. 17).

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I've seen a lot of promotion in my Rainbow Six Vegas 2 game. In the game there are billboards and posters in the mall advertising the album, no lie.

2296:

is no souce whatsoever for saying that CD is the first of a trilogy of albums. Here's the citation you linked to verify the comment in the article:

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our clients' rights," adding that the association is "even more damaging in light of your shoddy execution of your disingenuous giveaway offer."

4738:

Also "Dust In The Wind", which is an original song, not a cover of the Kansas song. I was able to download all of the above from Frostwire.com

2521:

I put a html comment about acceptable review sites (thanks Funeral). Also note I think the A.V. Club review should stay (even though its not on

3349: 3300:"Dr Pepper was completely unprepared for the traffic to its site," says Gutman in the letter, describing the promotion as a "complete fiasco." 4663: 3908: 3104: 2690: 2608: 883: 529:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9111016&st=guns+n+roses+chinese+democracy&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1925065

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into an unproductive argument and (in a sense) both parties are right and the statement doesn't conflict with what either of us is saying.

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Actually I wanted to name Slash being not there as one thing more significant than a missing sticker. But I guess we could set up a whole

3712:

has not shown up for months. Isn't he a stage hawk? We even argue - for about four weeks now! - whether Finck and Mantia are in or not. --

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Yes, but since Best Buy is offering the album exclusively, wouldn't they be more of a verifiable source in this particular situation? (

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The soda maker declined to comment. Dr Pepper was considering extending the promotion, according to a source close to the situation.

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You guys are crazy thinking the band is going to announce a released date. Besides, the band should be named Axl Rose and etc. today.

1124:

I'm pretty sure that's realiable. They're releasing it exclusively through bestbuy. Why would best buy purposely post false info? - -

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So yeah, why not? I feel this album is somewhat experimental, in the literal sense. As are the compositions, too, I feel. Opinions?

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Rollingstone.com review the album. And luckily it was worth the 17 year wait :) heres the link if anyone wants to make an article:

1976:

Why nothing about the leaked CD Booklet? Scraped, This I Love, Sorry and the new Catcher in the Rye have also partially leaked.

1138:

No one said anything about Best Buy "purposely post false info." Best Buy's online store – like Amazon, HMV, et al – doesn't meet

512:

As soon as I was asking what next. I simply can't believe it. Great find. I think this is the smoke. Now let's wait for the fire.

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So if we're saying that the observer should not be in here, then why the hell is it still here? Somebody delete the review then.

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due to containing the best of Guns N Roses instead of new material.) Surely this feat deserves SOME mention on the main page? --

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Actually, lower-case redirects generally go to the article which it's close to (i.e., 'Chinese democracy' will go to 'Chinese

3669:, a crappy tabloid paper. It is, however, reliable, I think,so I don't think it should be removed. I agree with you, though. 2826:

I agree, He left out the last minute of Chinese Democracy's (song) lyrics. Oh well. Im happy It finally came out at least ;D

1482:

I'm planning on putting creating a 30 second sample of "Chinese Democracy" to be used in this article, if that helps any. - -

849:

before making any additional edits and reverts. This also may be an instance where you might want to involve a mediator. See

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http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/11/17/a-look-back-at-1991-as-new-guns-n-roses-single-better-premieres/

208:

Hits daily double now says November 23rd giving it a release date to its self and a full 7 days before hitting the charts

4213:

doesn't count since in its early days it did carry a PA instead of a personalized warning from GN'F'N'R's, and neither do

963:. There has been no announcement of a track listing, and I don't think we should change that section until there is one. 455: 592:

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/10/17/with-best-buy-deal-in-place-guns-n-roses-album-finally-arrives

445: 4784:

I think that 'mixed' means in-between positive and negative because in-between is a 'mix' of positivity and negativity.

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But honestly, I don't think people upper case items they are searching for in most cases, I am sure many would agree.

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Shouldn't we have a section on songs that were recorded during the album but aren't making it to the final record? - -

3271:

Guns N' Roses’ Lawyer Blasts Dr Pepper November 26, 2008 - Legal and Management | Digital and Mobile | Rock and Pop

4044:

That's exactly what I kinda asked. It may exist, yes, but we also may wait several years for it to be released...--

3345: 902:

Gnrdaily.com posted today that best buy released the set track list for chinese democracy, and it goes as follows:

38: 3817: 3704:

promotion at all - be it concerts, interviews, video clips or a well designed and informative website. I think it

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shouldn't be mentioned in personnel section Axl plays guitar on a couple tracks... It says that inthe booklet.

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since its really more a "review" of Axl Rose than of the album and not even a particularly serious one at that

1815:

This has been discusses many, many times before, and the consensus is always that the correct year is 1994, as

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material, wether it made the album or not. because it was after Use your illusion, the next album is C.D. - -

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Yeah, but this is monumental as this is GNR's FIRST new album to be released without a Parental Advisory. (

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No. Know why? Because I don't know where it's located. I'd read it, if only you'd show me where to go. --

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and intellectual property rights," with the threat of further action if an acceptable offer is not made.

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From what I can gather from it, it backs up what I've just said, unless I've missed something. Have I?

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I think most of the History and nearly all of the leaks section could be split into a new article. - -

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should have its own article? It would shrink the main article down a bit (which it definitely needs).

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the release date, unlike many other sources claiming that November 23 is the rumored date that it is

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They have extended the deal to 6PM Monday. They had no idea so many people would register...nice.

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If you wanna have a discussion with the self acclaimed owner of all GnR related articles, please go

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I think adding Alt. rock to Chinese Democracy genres would be nice. I'm waiting replies to add it.

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The best Track on the album is "Prostitute", it will probably end up as the most demanded single.

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The best track on the album is "Prostitute", it will probably end up as the most demanded single.

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And also, we should probally have the genre as Hard Rock. GN'R is a hard rock band, after all. - -

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My recommendation is to only list the reviews by notable, music-specific magazines and websites.

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http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/146566-guns-n-roses-democracy-cover-tracklist-revealed

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will this album be sold only at bestbuy or can it also be purchased on itunes when it comes out?

135:

If we don't want to put it in the infobox, the 25 November date could possibly be accomodated at

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List of things different on Chinese Democracy compared to earlier studio albums by Guns N' Roses

2619:

The Observer review is 53 words long, not really a real review and should probably be removed.

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Being from BBC and The Sun, these reviews are obviously notable enough to warrant adding them

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without them? That's the path that Ryanasaurus0077 is going down with this line of thinking.

2340:

Since the page is protected would some of its protectors add Billboards (favourable) review:

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Who keeps changing this? No one cares about the movement when this album is about to drop!

1554:

Sources say 1994. find more sources that are more reliable that say 1998 and we'll do it. - -

1030:

That report's source is the Best Buy page whose verifiability is what we're discussing here.

776:

Earth, including Canada, it will be available at all retailers. Note second paragraph here:

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It is therefore clear that the 2 seperate projects should not be considered one and as such

1720:

considers that music/those recordings to be a seperate album or project. Read this article:

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This article is missing a big piece of information: when did the album title first appear?

3031:

Hey, just a head's up that Canoe.ca's review of the record has been published online. URL:

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and the link is wrong anyway. I think this should be completely removed. Any thoughts?

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Best would be for the next two or three months, way after the release and the holidays. --

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in which to gather sales and this will then obviously strengthen its arrival on the charts

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http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/G/Guns_N_Roses/AlbumReviews/2008/11/20/7476436-sun.html

2342:

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/reviews/album_review_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003892755

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According to Sanity, Chinese Democracy shall be released November 22 in Australia. Link:

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When the album officially releases, there are some major things to be updated, such as:

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Chinese Democracy was released in 2008 and had many sales before the turn of the year

4785: 3820:. And if you have a look on the latest news the album will fall like a bomb next week. 3409: 3075: 2797:

You won't be thinking that when you see all the mistakes and typos in the booklet. ;-)

2301: 835: 502: 312: 277: 261: 197: 90: 4769:, the reviews are shown to be mostly mixed and positive ones, with a couple negative. 2861: 1599:

Technically, anything Axl wrote after Slash and all them left the band constitutes as

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I put up the tracklisting; I'm 100 percent sure best buy would be a reliable souce..

3700:

notable that this "truly epic project" and "best album of the decade" does not have

3360:

I added it in, the book says he plays guitar on "There Was A Time" and "Madagascar"

2107:

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/24024297/review/24161281/chinese_democracy

909:

that was as of october 16, 2008, and here is a link to the artical i got this from:

476:

Links that don't work anymore, retracted articles. What next? This is like a movie.

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applied to that lineup or that time - to have it in the article is very misleading.

1210:. The Geffen website lists the tracklisting as pointed out by the person above. - - 855: 418: 384: 4016:

axl said the video would be out in december....its march and were still waiting.

3876: 3823: 2002:

So if this article is semi-protected, why can it be edited by IPs all the time? --

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For reception I've added it's placing in Rolling Stone's Top 50 Albums of 2008.

3825:

If it's due to a lack of quality or no promotion at all is another question... --

3545:, I think, is the main genre to bring up about the album; but I also think maybe 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

2674:

many reviews? All other albums I've seen have about 1-4, this one has like 7.

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somewhere else, somewhere that doesn't care about accuracy and verifiability.

337:

Has an official source announced a release date for this album yet, or is it

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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081022/entertainment/music_guns_n__roses

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a notable critic? He certainly does have an article on Knowledge (XXG).

4765:

favorable (but inbetween), like a 2 and a half out of 5 star review. At

4717:

What about Livin' Loud, Shadow Of Your Love, Silkworms, and Strip Bar?

3792: 3406:

Here let's include some of this new information in it's section people:

1722:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=82

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Not really a "big piece of information", but it's definately relevant!

2470:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article1933110.ece

1224:

Whatever. An online store isn't a reliable source; Geffen is, however.

2441:

will have a lengthy review, and there isn't enough room for everyone.

1180:

just another thing to add its also on the geffen site for the release

940:

Why isn't the track list updated to show the songs claimed by BestBuy

4685:

shouldnt we add that awsome "hand" cover for the rock band version?

2751:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/TheSolidSnake12/100_0624-1.jpg

1666:

title, from 94 to 98/99 doesn't mean it's a whole other project???

100:

Good point. It would also save us the pain of all these reversions.

2747:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/TheSolidSnake12/100_0623.jpg

2743:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/TheSolidSnake12/100_0622.jpg

2739:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e161/TheSolidSnake12/100_0621.jpg

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http://onethirtybpm.com/2008/11/18/guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy/

3634:

I stand by my point, but fair enough; thanks for the opinions :)

2868:

first or do a little research on the history of some articles. --

2298:

http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/32634/2005390166215235814_rs.jpg

2232:

emocracy movement,' whereas 'Chinese Democracy' will come here.)

845:

I would suggest both individuals stop edit warring and come to a

3402:

A new very interesting article about the recent banning in China

3053:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kcftxzwkldje

1271:

in filling it with crufty, irrelevant references to other songs.

375:

was released today on RollingStone.com stating that November 23

3264:

Apparently Axl Rose and his lawyer are upset about Dr. Pepper:

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http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/chuck_klosterman_reviews

2437:

It's a decent review/history lesson, but once the album drops

2132:

The rolling stone review is linked in the article already. - -

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site, but from what I just saw it's quite a ridiculous site.

1627:

No, sorry, it just doesn't work like that. Chinese Democracy

1410:

OK. Should the other sections (like Leaks) go in there, too?

2419:

I agree, it's not crap, it's a real review, should be added

4501:

Unfortunately, my attempt to create such a list fell apart

3148:"Riad n' The Bedouims" should read "Riad N' The Bedouins" 1182:

http://www.geffen.com/artist/releases/default.aspx/pid/2691

449:

Guns N’ Roses Album Finally Arrives, Set For November 23rd

780:

Thanks! (Oh and full disclosure, I work for the label)

688:

Jason Hutton, Brantford, October 20, 2008. 3:27 PM EST.

3368:

What he hell happened to those? Put the back in please.

1510:

Can the RfC be removed now? It appears to be resolved. —

796:

http://www.sanity.com.au/product/product.asp?sku=2117963

353:

This is the mother of all "to be announced soon" sagas.

3001:

correct Personnel and writing credits using liner notes

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due to being a condensed version of the UYI albums or

2163:

http://www.q1043.com/pages/news/gunsnroses/better.html

1006:

The tracklist has been revealed and so has the cover.

3289:"Now is the time to clean up the mess," says Gutman. 1791:

recording for Chinese Democracy did not begin in 1994

3553:

It has been made after a massive historical change (

3410:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7747815.stm

2932:I say 'yes', too (see Other Reviews thread above). 2202:

Chinese Democracy linking to the movement on search

1045:

track listing are pretty big news (in my opinion).(

3439:is one of the most popular music magzines, right? 3563:It has been made over a prolonged period of time; 2055:This needs to be protected until the end of Nov. 398:Is it a coincidence that the link does not work? 2783:Thank god Axl didn't skimp on a lyrics booklet. 2541:http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20241280,00.html 911:http://www.gnrdaily.com/news_detail.asp?id=1655 2947:Okay well can somebody please include him in? 3816:Those charts are not reliable if you believe 8: 4555:Always, have you ever read my newsletter? -- 4505:. Got any more brilliant ideas, hexaChord?-- 3566:It features a mass of different lineups; and 2386:the article. The review can be viewed here: 1454:If you need any help; just holler at me. - - 2995:update Production section with liner notes 1322:No upcoming music videos for the album? -- 990:Perhaps, but I don't think we should cite 4834:http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=945537 3851:It's impossible to tell what'll happen. 2508:Here's a list of acceptable review sites. 4845:http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=16697 3004:create Reception section with quotations 2962:His review is already in the article... 2911:Anyway I say yes, as we like to include 2467:http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/release/pdjw/ 1894:when it is eligible for chart appearance 139:where other rumours are also mentioned. 4826: 3875:It's fallen to 11 in the UK, actually. 3483:First time Chinese Democracy was named? 1142:, so it shouldn't be used as a source. 1072:and we should leave the section as is. 163:of an exclusive release with Best Buy. 4656: 3991:Can anyone confirm a "Better" video?-- 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 4243:Why do you think that's important? -- 3793:http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums.htm 1396:I Agree. A split would work well. - - 493:Best Buy now has a pre-order page up 7: 4105:Some songs are more Alt. rock than 1521:Recording for Chinese Democracy... 1208:SINCE THEY ARE THE ONES SELLING IT 24: 555:Jason Hutton, October 16, 2008. 2539:Entertainment Weekly review: B- 1935:default "chinese democracy" page 1716:I also think its important that 1526:article, but it seems I can't. 272:all "If the report is true..." 176:I see. Let's leave it out then. 137:Chinese_Democracy#Current_status 29: 732:Try and stay on topic, please. 3506:a "big piece of information"? 2525:), because its by Klosterman. 734:Knowledge (XXG) is not a forum 497:. Release date is Nov 25th. 1: 3913:18:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 3818:Knowledge (XXG):Record charts 3765:17:27, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 3600:13:40, 29 November 2008 (UTC) 3586:10:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC) 3516:10:16, 29 November 2008 (UTC) 3497:01:21, 28 November 2008 (UTC) 3475:02:32, 27 November 2008 (UTC) 3461:Does the band have any plans 3452:02:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC) 3423:19:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC) 3397:11:56, 25 November 2008 (UTC) 3378:07:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC) 3354:19:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC) 3323:20:38, 26 November 2008 (UTC) 3257:21:08, 25 November 2008 (UTC) 3232:13:23, 24 November 2008 (UTC) 3218:11:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC) 3197:03:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC) 3169:02:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC) 3137:22:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC) 3109:02:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC) 3084:01:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC) 3065:12:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC) 3047:12:14, 23 November 2008 (UTC) 3022:04:04, 22 November 2008 (UTC) 2970:00:28, 22 November 2008 (UTC) 2957:00:22, 22 November 2008 (UTC) 2942:21:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2927:20:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2888:06:35, 25 November 2008 (UTC) 2853:01:02, 25 November 2008 (UTC) 2819:21:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2805:20:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2793:14:49, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2776:07:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2727:12:38, 22 November 2008 (UTC) 2713:20:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2695:20:12, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2665:19:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2651:10:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2635:06:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2613:02:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2566:10:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2552:01:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC) 2535:20:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC) 2517:18:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC) 2503:15:05, 20 November 2008 (UTC) 2487:14:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC) 2451:15:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC) 2429:14:25, 20 November 2008 (UTC) 2412:09:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC) 2375:09:23, 20 December 2008 (UTC) 2354:21:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC) 2285:09:28, 20 December 2008 (UTC) 2261:02:25, 18 November 2008 (UTC) 2240:22:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC) 2222:21:27, 17 November 2008 (UTC) 2192:21:38, 17 November 2008 (UTC) 2174:09:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC) 2149:18:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC) 2144:Share the Love with Barnstars 2124:08:22, 12 November 2008 (UTC) 2089:18:53, 11 November 2008 (UTC) 2065:16:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC) 2051:16:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC) 2022:16:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC) 1930:10:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC) 1888:06:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC) 1515:23:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC) 818:12:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC) 639:JCHUTTON, OCTOBER 17. 2008. 4794:10:39, 21 January 2010 (UTC) 4779:10:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC) 4127:I am waiting for sources. -- 4011:06:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC) 3985:06:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC) 3960:19:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC) 3885:13:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 3867:03:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC) 3845:23:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 3810:13:58, 5 December 2008 (UTC) 3732:23:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC) 3692:16:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC) 3679:06:41, 3 December 2008 (UTC) 3644:18:28, 1 December 2008 (UTC) 3619:15:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC) 3530:22:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC) 3070:Individual song descriptions 2905:here's his A- review on it: 2741:Middle page of the booklet: 2179:RS pretty much confirms it: 1992:20:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC) 1966:02:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC) 1950:02:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC) 1860:17:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1845:15:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1827:15:06, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1803:11:47, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1682:11:21, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1647:10:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1613:03:36, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1593:00:42, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1564:20:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC) 1547:11:58, 28 October 2008 (UTC) 1492:22:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1478:17:03, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1464:03:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1450:03:41, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1434:03:31, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1420:03:10, 29 October 2008 (UTC) 1406:20:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC) 1392:18:09, 25 October 2008 (UTC) 1378:16:58, 25 October 2008 (UTC) 1366:History of Chinese Democracy 1364:Does anyone else think that 1353:15:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC) 1332:19:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC) 1311:21:03, 25 October 2008 (UTC) 1292:21:03, 24 October 2008 (UTC) 1260:19:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC) 1246:19:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC) 1232:11:06, 24 October 2008 (UTC) 1220:01:44, 24 October 2008 (UTC) 1200:16:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC) 1175:15:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC) 1150:15:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC) 1134:23:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC) 1119:04:42, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 1097:16:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 1080:15:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 1055:21:44, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 1038:18:49, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 1025:18:44, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 1002:18:17, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 985:17:53, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 971:14:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 953:14:16, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 934:01:58, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 870:18:06, 14 October 2008 (UTC) 840:17:13, 14 October 2008 (UTC) 790:15:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC) 765:01:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC) 744:17:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC) 726:16:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC) 704:19:24, 20 October 2008 (UTC) 678:19:57, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 655:19:14, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 634:04:40, 18 October 2008 (UTC) 609:16:38, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 585:15:24, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 571:22:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 546:12:40, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 522:01:12, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 507:00:17, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 486:21:01, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 469:20:46, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 427:20:34, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 408:20:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 393:18:13, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 363:17:54, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 349:09:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 333:07:25, 14 October 2008 (UTC) 317:05:30, 14 October 2008 (UTC) 299:20:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC) 282:21:19, 11 October 2008 (UTC) 266:05:30, 14 October 2008 (UTC) 249:22:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC) 4754:00:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC) 4733:00:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC) 4165:11:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC) 3944:21:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC) 3572:(This one is just joshing.) 3549:should appear to. Reasons? 224:16:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC) 202:22:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC) 186:16:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC) 171:16:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC) 149:18:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC) 123:18:44, 3 October 2008 (UTC) 110:17:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC) 95:16:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC) 4863: 4631:20:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 4577:20:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC) 4515:00:29, 26 April 2009 (UTC) 4465:19:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 4423:19:09, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 4369:18:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 4334:18:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 4291:18:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 4265:18:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 4231:18:07, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 4201:17:56, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 4185:00:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC) 4090:03:25, 28 March 2009 (UTC) 4066:19:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 4037:19:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2329:18:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC) 2099:Rolling Stone Album Review 1439:I'll start on it tomorrow. 4821:10:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC) 4713:Other non-album GnR songs 4706:00:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 4657:'Ecstatic' New York crowd 4211:"The Spaghetti Incident?" 4149:22:50, 9 April 2009 (UTC) 4122:21:57, 9 April 2009 (UTC) 3781:01:24, 9 April 2009 (UTC) 2894:Chuck Klosterman's review 2749:The back of the Cd case: 2439:everyone and their mother 412:Hm, that is interesting. 4672:07:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC) 3710:His Imperial Strangeness 3293:of "Chinese Democracy." 892:11:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC) 3274:By Andre Paine, London 1277:Chinese Democracy#Sound 1103:that is the tracklist 4175:this talk page, OK? -- 3654:Disappearance article. 3012:pieces that are done. 2893: 341:soon? Just wondering. 233:JCHUTTON, Brantford, 18:Talk:Chinese Democracy 2745:Sorry's lyrics page: 2732:Stores breaking dates 2592:written by mankind. 1645:comment was added at 42:of past discussions. 3965:"Better" Music Video 3881:Travelling Tragition 3688:Travelling Tragition 3596:Travelling Tragition 3228:Travelling Tragition 2998:update Sound section 2966:Travelling Tragition 2915:'s reviews on here. 2801:Travelling Tragition 2513:Travelling Tragition 2336:Add Billboard Review 2236:Travelling Tragition 1823:Travelling Tragition 1388:Travelling Tragition 1288:Travelling Tragition 1228:Travelling Tragition 1146:Travelling Tragition 1093:Travelling Tragition 1076:Travelling Tragition 1034:Travelling Tragition 998:Travelling Tragition 967:Travelling Tragition 825:Travelling Tragition 740:Travelling Tragition 581:Travelling Tragition 465:Travelling Tragition 345:Travelling Tragition 167:Travelling Tragition 119:Travelling Tragition 3570:It is experimental! 2381:Onethirtybpm review 4558:Avant-garde a clue 4503:almost immediately 4404:Avant-garde a clue 4315:Avant-garde a clue 4246:Avant-garde a clue 4130:Avant-garde a clue 4047:Avant-garde a clue 3993:Avant-garde a clue 3538:Experimental rock? 3267:source billboard: 2976:Sunday update work 1817:The New York Times 1629:as a project/album 4811:comment added by 4744:comment added by 4723:comment added by 4709: 4692:comment added by 4560: 4406: 4317: 4248: 4215:Use Your Illusion 4170:Parental Advisory 4132: 4049: 4040: 4023:comment added by 3975:comment added by 3934:comment added by 3916: 3899:comment added by 3857:comment added by 3800:comment added by 3755:comment added by 3742:US Chart Position 3547:experimental rock 3357: 3340:comment added by 3313:comment added by 3208:comment added by 3187:comment added by 3172: 3155:comment added by 3140: 3123:comment added by 3112: 3095:comment added by 2856: 2841:Hollywood Vampire 2839:comment added by 2779: 2762:comment added by 2698: 2681:comment added by 2625:comment added by 2616: 2599:comment added by 2477:comment added by 2415: 2398:comment added by 2365:comment added by 2332: 2315:comment added by 2275:comment added by 2251:comment added by 2212:comment added by 2114:comment added by 1982:comment added by 1972:Leaked CD Booklet 1672:comment added by 1601:Chinese Democracy 1596: 1579:comment added by 1550: 1533:comment added by 1343:comment added by 1190:comment added by 1165:comment added by 1109:comment added by 1015:comment added by 937: 920:comment added by 882:comment added by 821: 804:comment added by 755:comment added by 716:comment added by 694:comment added by 668:comment added by 645:comment added by 624:comment added by 599:comment added by 561:comment added by 536:comment added by 460: 459: 239:comment added by 214:comment added by 77: 76: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 4854: 4847: 4842: 4836: 4831: 4823: 4756: 4735: 4708: 4686: 4681:New RB Cover Art 4571: 4566: 4556: 4457:Darwin's Bulldog 4417: 4412: 4402: 4361:Darwin's Bulldog 4328: 4323: 4313: 4259: 4254: 4244: 4193:Darwin's Bulldog 4143: 4138: 4128: 4100:Alternative rock 4088: 4084: 4081: 4078: 4075: 4060: 4055: 4045: 4039: 4017: 4005: 4000: 3987: 3946: 3915: 3893: 3883: 3869: 3839: 3834: 3812: 3767: 3726: 3721: 3690: 3598: 3356: 3342:Something Aweful 3334: 3325: 3251: 3246: 3230: 3220: 3199: 3171: 3149: 3139: 3117: 3111: 3089: 2968: 2913:Robert Christgau 2900:Chuck Klosterman 2882: 2877: 2855: 2833: 2803: 2778: 2756: 2755:Your thoughts? 2697: 2675: 2637: 2615: 2593: 2515: 2489: 2414: 2392: 2377: 2331: 2309: 2287: 2263: 2238: 2224: 2126: 2083: 2078: 2045: 2040: 2016: 2011: 1994: 1882: 1877: 1825: 1684: 1650: 1595: 1573: 1549: 1527: 1390: 1355: 1290: 1230: 1202: 1177: 1148: 1121: 1095: 1078: 1036: 1027: 1000: 969: 936: 914: 894: 866: 861: 858: 820: 798: 767: 742: 728: 706: 680: 657: 636: 611: 583: 573: 548: 467: 443: 383:to come out on. 347: 251: 226: 169: 121: 73: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 4862: 4861: 4857: 4856: 4855: 4853: 4852: 4851: 4850: 4843: 4839: 4832: 4828: 4806: 4802: 4762: 4739: 4718: 4715: 4687: 4683: 4664:124.191.120.158 4659: 4623:Ryanasaurus0077 4569: 4564: 4507:Ryanasaurus0077 4415: 4410: 4326: 4321: 4283:Ryanasaurus0077 4257: 4252: 4223:Ryanasaurus0077 4177:Ryanasaurus0077 4172: 4141: 4136: 4103: 4082: 4079: 4076: 4073: 4071: 4058: 4053: 4018: 4003: 3998: 3970: 3967: 3929: 3922: 3901:KILLER BOB11694 3894: 3878: 3852: 3837: 3832: 3827:Say Headcheese! 3795: 3789: 3750: 3744: 3724: 3719: 3714:Say Headcheese! 3685: 3656: 3593: 3540: 3485: 3467:Crackthewhip775 3459: 3457:Album promotion 3433: 3404: 3366: 3335: 3331: 3308: 3249: 3244: 3239:Say Headcheese! 3225: 3203: 3182: 3178: 3150: 3146: 3118: 3097:KILLER BOB11694 3090: 3072: 3029: 3027:Canoe.ca review 2978: 2963: 2896: 2880: 2875: 2870:Say Headcheese! 2834: 2798: 2757: 2734: 2683:KILLER BOB11694 2676: 2620: 2601:KILLER BOB11694 2594: 2582: 2510: 2472: 2461: 2393: 2383: 2360: 2338: 2310: 2293: 2270: 2246: 2233: 2207: 2204: 2159: 2147: 2109: 2101: 2081: 2076: 2071:Say Headcheese! 2043: 2038: 2033:Say Headcheese! 2029:expired on 11/9 2014: 2009: 2004:Say Headcheese! 2000: 1998:Semi-Protection 1977: 1974: 1937: 1920:anticipation :) 1896: 1880: 1875: 1870:Say Headcheese! 1820: 1667: 1640: 1574: 1528: 1523: 1385: 1362: 1338: 1324:Crackthewhip775 1320: 1285: 1225: 1185: 1160: 1143: 1104: 1090: 1073: 1031: 1010: 995: 964: 915: 900: 884:124.191.120.158 877: 864: 859: 856: 827: 799: 750: 737: 711: 689: 663: 640: 619: 594: 578: 556: 531: 462: 342: 339:to be announced 234: 209: 164: 116: 82: 69: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 4860: 4858: 4849: 4848: 4837: 4825: 4813:92.237.136.218 4801: 4798: 4797: 4796: 4761: 4758: 4714: 4711: 4682: 4679: 4677: 4658: 4655: 4654: 4653: 4652: 4651: 4650: 4649: 4648: 4647: 4646: 4645: 4644: 4643: 4642: 4641: 4640: 4639: 4638: 4637: 4636: 4635: 4634: 4633: 4598: 4597: 4596: 4595: 4594: 4593: 4592: 4591: 4590: 4589: 4588: 4587: 4586: 4585: 4584: 4583: 4582: 4581: 4580: 4579: 4534: 4533: 4532: 4531: 4530: 4529: 4528: 4527: 4526: 4525: 4524: 4523: 4522: 4521: 4520: 4519: 4518: 4517: 4482: 4481: 4480: 4479: 4478: 4477: 4476: 4475: 4474: 4473: 4472: 4471: 4470: 4469: 4468: 4467: 4438: 4437: 4436: 4435: 4434: 4433: 4432: 4431: 4430: 4429: 4428: 4427: 4426: 4425: 4382: 4381: 4380: 4379: 4378: 4377: 4376: 4375: 4374: 4373: 4372: 4371: 4345: 4344: 4343: 4342: 4341: 4340: 4339: 4338: 4337: 4336: 4300: 4299: 4298: 4297: 4296: 4295: 4294: 4293: 4272: 4271: 4270: 4269: 4268: 4267: 4236: 4235: 4234: 4233: 4204: 4203: 4171: 4168: 4152: 4151: 4102: 4096: 4095: 4094: 4093: 4092: 4014: 4013: 3977:71.237.175.111 3966: 3963: 3952:142.177.57.122 3921: 3918: 3890: 3889: 3888: 3887: 3848: 3847: 3788: 3785: 3743: 3740: 3739: 3738: 3737: 3736: 3735: 3734: 3655: 3652: 3651: 3650: 3649: 3648: 3647: 3646: 3626: 3624: 3623: 3622: 3621: 3603: 3602: 3574: 3573: 3567: 3564: 3561: 3539: 3536: 3535: 3534: 3533: 3532: 3484: 3481: 3458: 3455: 3432: 3429: 3427: 3403: 3400: 3385: 3384: 3365: 3364:two A- reviews 3362: 3330: 3327: 3315:76.235.223.249 3270: 3262: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3177: 3174: 3145: 3142: 3071: 3068: 3028: 3025: 3006: 3005: 3002: 2999: 2996: 2993: 2984:change tense ( 2977: 2974: 2973: 2972: 2945: 2944: 2895: 2892: 2891: 2890: 2864:. Please read 2829: 2824: 2823: 2822: 2821: 2807: 2733: 2730: 2701: 2627:121.45.127.144 2581: 2578: 2577: 2576: 2575: 2574: 2573: 2572: 2571: 2570: 2569: 2568: 2460: 2457: 2456: 2455: 2454: 2453: 2432: 2431: 2382: 2379: 2337: 2334: 2292: 2289: 2266: 2243: 2242: 2203: 2200: 2197: 2195: 2194: 2158: 2157:Second single? 2155: 2154: 2153: 2152: 2151: 2141: 2116:71.237.175.111 2100: 2097: 2096: 2095: 2094: 2093: 2092: 2091: 1999: 1996: 1973: 1970: 1969: 1968: 1958:The Spooky One 1936: 1933: 1917: 1916: 1911: 1910: 1905: 1904: 1895: 1892: 1891: 1890: 1865: 1864: 1863: 1862: 1847: 1830: 1829: 1813: 1812: 1811: 1810: 1809: 1808: 1807: 1806: 1805: 1778: 1777: 1776: 1775: 1774: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1769: 1754: 1753: 1752: 1751: 1750: 1749: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1745: 1733: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1729: 1728: 1727: 1726: 1725: 1724: 1714: 1705: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1656: 1655: 1654: 1653: 1652: 1651: 1620: 1619: 1618: 1617: 1616: 1615: 1605:The Spooky One 1567: 1566: 1556:The 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2724: 2720: 2719:62.107.24.213 2715: 2714: 2710: 2706: 2699: 2696: 2692: 2688: 2684: 2680: 2673: 2667: 2666: 2662: 2658: 2653: 2652: 2648: 2644: 2643:62.107.24.213 2638: 2636: 2632: 2628: 2624: 2617: 2614: 2610: 2606: 2602: 2598: 2589: 2586: 2580:Chart/Reviews 2579: 2567: 2563: 2559: 2558:62.107.24.213 2555: 2554: 2553: 2549: 2545: 2542: 2538: 2537: 2536: 2532: 2528: 2524: 2520: 2519: 2518: 2514: 2509: 2506: 2505: 2504: 2500: 2496: 2492: 2491: 2490: 2488: 2484: 2480: 2479:62.107.24.213 2476: 2471: 2468: 2464: 2459:Other Reviews 2458: 2452: 2448: 2444: 2440: 2436: 2435: 2434: 2433: 2430: 2426: 2422: 2421:62.107.24.213 2418: 2417: 2416: 2413: 2409: 2405: 2401: 2397: 2391: 2387: 2380: 2378: 2376: 2372: 2368: 2364: 2356: 2355: 2351: 2347: 2346:62.107.24.213 2343: 2335: 2333: 2330: 2326: 2322: 2318: 2314: 2307: 2303: 2299: 2290: 2288: 2286: 2282: 2278: 2274: 2267: 2264: 2262: 2258: 2254: 2253:76.235.195.60 2250: 2241: 2237: 2231: 2227: 2226: 2225: 2223: 2219: 2215: 2214:76.235.195.60 2211: 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718:67.68.36.199 708: 687: 683: 638: 626:69.159.58.84 617: 613: 590:Story link: 589: 580: 554: 550: 526: 492: 464: 461: 450: 439: 380: 376: 371: 344: 338: 305: 270: 232: 228: 206: 166: 160: 157: 118: 83: 80:Release date 70: 43: 37: 4807:—Preceding 4740:—Preceding 4719:—Preceding 4694:Rocknroll47 4688:—Preceding 4025:Rocknroll47 4019:—Preceding 3971:—Preceding 3930:—Preceding 3895:—Preceding 3853:—Preceding 3796:—Preceding 3773:Rocknroll47 3751:—Preceding 3696:I think it 3663:It is from 3336:—Preceding 3309:—Preceding 3204:—Preceding 3183:—Preceding 3151:—Preceding 3119:—Preceding 3091:—Preceding 3057:Gettheshade 3039:Gettheshade 2835:—Preceding 2758:—Preceding 2677:—Preceding 2621:—Preceding 2595:—Preceding 2473:—Preceding 2400:Seanhighkin 2394:—Preceding 2367:72.50.74.47 2361:—Preceding 2317:Rocknroll47 2311:—Preceding 2277:72.50.74.47 2271:—Preceding 2247:—Preceding 2208:—Preceding 2134:' The Spook 2110:—Preceding 1978:—Preceding 1718:Axl himself 1668:—Preceding 1641:—Preceding 1575:—Preceding 1529:—Preceding 1339:—Preceding 1303:82.5.59.155 1186:—Preceding 1184:Tyson Lee 1161:—Preceding 1105:—Preceding 1047:Drlecter491 1011:—Preceding 977:Drlecter491 916:—Preceding 878:—Preceding 800:—Preceding 751:—Preceding 712:—Preceding 690:—Preceding 670:24.22.69.37 664:—Preceding 641:—Preceding 620:—Preceding 595:—Preceding 557:—Preceding 538:65.93.56.93 532:—Preceding 291:Douglasr007 235:—Preceding 210:—Preceding 36:This is an 4767:Metacritic 3920:IGN review 3431:NME Review 3415:Neverfades 3370:Neverfades 3176:Dr. Pepper 3014:StevePrutz 2949:Neverfades 2934:StevePrutz 2919:Neverfades 2811:StevePrutz 2785:StevePrutz 2705:Neverfades 2657:Neverfades 2527:StevePrutz 2495:StevePrutz 2443:StevePrutz 2184:StevePrutz 2057:StevePrutz 1962:talk to me 1956:fixed. - - 1609:talk to me 1560:talk to me 1488:talk to me 1470:StevePrutz 1460:talk to me 1442:StevePrutz 1430:talk to me 1412:StevePrutz 1402:talk to me 1370:StevePrutz 1256:talk to me 1242:talk to me 1216:talk to me 1130:talk to me 1085:How about 898:Track list 373:An article 216:65.93.63.4 4786:Martarius 4760:consensus 4107:Hard rock 3560:leaving); 3543:Hard rock 3329:mentioned 3125:Discoh8er 3076:Superior1 2302:Casino321 1744:Axl says: 1512:MDCollins 922:Tuck19841 851:WP:MEDCAB 847:consensus 782:Lungflook 71:Archive 3 65:Archive 2 60:Archive 1 4809:unsigned 4742:unsigned 4721:unsigned 4702:contribs 4690:unsigned 4674:Bernard 4109:itself. 4070:Ouch. -- 4033:contribs 4021:unsigned 3973:unsigned 3932:unsigned 3909:contribs 3897:unsigned 3855:unsigned 3798:unsigned 3753:unsigned 3671:Andre666 3636:Andre666 3578:Andre666 3522:Lies5150 3508:Andre666 3502:Is that 3444:Rogscorp 3350:contribs 3338:unsigned 3311:unsigned 3206:unsigned 3185:unsigned 3165:contribs 3153:unsigned 3133:contribs 3121:unsigned 3105:contribs 3093:unsigned 2849:contribs 2837:unsigned 2772:contribs 2760:unsigned 2691:contribs 2679:unsigned 2623:unsigned 2609:contribs 2597:unsigned 2523:the list 2475:unsigned 2408:contribs 2396:unsigned 2363:unsigned 2325:contribs 2313:unsigned 2291:Trilogy? 2273:unsigned 2249:unsigned 2210:unsigned 2166:Sadistik 2112:unsigned 1980:unsigned 1670:unsigned 1589:contribs 1577:unsigned 1543:contribs 1531:unsigned 1341:unsigned 1279:make it 1188:unsigned 1163:unsigned 1107:unsigned 1013:unsigned 930:contribs 918:unsigned 880:unsigned 814:contribs 802:unsigned 753:unsigned 714:unsigned 692:unsigned 666:unsigned 643:unsigned 622:unsigned 597:unsigned 559:unsigned 534:unsigned 237:unsigned 212:unsigned 4114:Robfbms 4098:Adding 3666:The Sun 2986:will be 2544:Jlnfrtn 1713:exists. 1643:undated 419:Fezmar9 385:Fezmar9 39:archive 3558:et al. 3504:really 3463:at all 3435:Surly 3157:Mdg629 2764:Noskap 1952:Jamie 1819:says. 913:```` 830:him. 806:Noskap 381:likely 161:rumour 4800:Sales 4771:Dan56 4570:Chord 4455:LOL! 4416:Chord 4327:Chord 4258:Chord 4142:Chord 4059:Chord 4004:Chord 3926:music 3838:Chord 3725:Chord 3611:Xinit 3555:Slash 3250:Chord 2881:Chord 2809:Doh! 2082:Chord 2044:Chord 2015:Chord 1881:Chord 514:Dr.K. 478:Dr.K. 400:Dr.K. 355:Dr.K. 325:Dr.K. 178:Dr.K. 141:Dr.K. 102:Dr.K. 16:< 4817:talk 4790:talk 4775:talk 4750:talk 4729:talk 4698:talk 4668:talk 4627:talk 4565:hexa 4511:talk 4461:talk 4411:hexa 4401:? -- 4365:talk 4322:hexa 4287:talk 4253:hexa 4227:talk 4197:talk 4181:talk 4161:talk 4137:hexa 4118:talk 4054:hexa 4029:talk 3999:hexa 3981:talk 3956:talk 3940:talk 3905:talk 3863:talk 3833:hexa 3806:talk 3777:talk 3761:talk 3720:hexa 3675:talk 3640:talk 3615:talk 3582:talk 3526:talk 3512:talk 3493:talk 3471:talk 3448:talk 3419:talk 3393:talk 3374:talk 3346:talk 3319:talk 3245:hexa 3214:talk 3193:talk 3161:talk 3129:talk 3101:talk 3080:talk 3061:talk 3043:talk 3018:talk 2953:talk 2938:talk 2923:talk 2876:hexa 2866:this 2862:here 2845:talk 2815:talk 2789:talk 2768:talk 2723:talk 2709:talk 2687:talk 2661:talk 2647:talk 2631:talk 2605:talk 2562:talk 2548:talk 2531:talk 2499:talk 2483:talk 2447:talk 2425:talk 2404:talk 2371:talk 2350:talk 2344:thx 2321:talk 2306:talk 2281:talk 2257:talk 2218:talk 2188:talk 2170:talk 2138:TALK 2120:talk 2077:hexa 2061:talk 2039:hexa 2010:hexa 1988:talk 1946:talk 1926:talk 1876:hexa 1856:talk 1841:talk 1799:talk 1678:talk 1637:talk 1585:talk 1539:talk 1474:talk 1446:talk 1416:talk 1374:talk 1349:talk 1328:talk 1307:talk 1281:very 1196:talk 1171:talk 1140:WP:V 1115:talk 1087:this 1070:WP:V 1051:talk 1021:talk 992:this 981:talk 961:WP:V 949:talk 926:talk 888:talk 857:Quar 836:talk 832:noit 810:talk 786:talk 761:talk 722:talk 700:talk 674:talk 651:talk 630:talk 605:talk 567:talk 542:talk 518:talk 503:talk 499:Froo 495:here 482:talk 423:talk 414:Here 404:talk 389:talk 359:talk 329:talk 313:talk 309:noit 295:talk 278:talk 274:noit 262:talk 258:noit 245:talk 220:talk 198:talk 194:noit 182:talk 145:talk 106:talk 91:talk 87:noit 3702:any 3437:NME 3055:. 2988:to 2898:Is 2672:too 1639:) 432:it: 4819:) 4792:) 4777:) 4752:) 4731:) 4704:) 4700:• 4670:) 4629:) 4513:) 4463:) 4367:) 4312:-- 4289:) 4229:) 4199:) 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