722:
your changes to the article, which have improved it considerably. I wrote the
Spanish version of this article about one year ago, based on the information here, and had a few problems with the terminology too, as well as feeling a bit uneasy about the lack of references. This is one of the main problems of the current article and its spin-offs in other wikipedias. You have added some references, but I am still a bit concerned about the mention of that 帝國郵電聯席會議. I have tried to find some information about that meeting, but all the information I have found on the Internet seems to reveal a certain circularity, as if it all comes from this Knowledge article, or from the unreferenced online text you have identified as the source of this one. I wonder if anyone knows of any reliable printed source in Chinese or in English where we can find more information about that meeting in Shanghai in 1906.
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1532:- ancient administrative divisions or capitals of prefectures; such information belongs into the articles about these administrative divisions. In one case - 西安 - the 府 may have had a reappearance from 1919 to 1947, according to our table, if that is even true. (The map given as reference just shows “西安市”, and our Chinese sister project, in its article
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Per my point on the template page a few days ago just “postal romanization” is unclear as a title, as it could be referring to any of a number of countries in theory, a reader would not know which without reading the article or finding out elsewhere. The sources mentioned above may not mention China
919:
I don't see a reason to call it anything else. From looking the discussion above, I gather that the current name is not based on
English-language sources, but is rather a loose translation of the Chinese name. This seems a poor way to pick a name. The Chinese version of the name doesn't use the word
721:
I think it could be good to refer to it as the "older postal system" or something like that in the actual text that links here from other articles. That would make it clear that such spellings, the usual ones until 30 years ago, are no longer common. Apart from that, I'd like to congratulate you on
1539:
Back to D'Anville: Was that even really a postal romanization? In that case, we would have to change the introduction, according to which they were not developed until the late 19th century. Otherwise, it probably can remain in the table, but it should be clarified that that's only for the sake of
492:
adopted for the system's
English name, instead of the more common English term "romanization"?--I'm assuming just as a parallel with usage in Hanyu pinyin, etc...but this almost establishes a false sense of relatedness, almost anachronistic. However, the answer to my question is probably even more
836:
I find this article dissatisfying in several ways. The most serious problem is that there is no image of the actual map. So what was on it? According to Harris, who is cited at the bottom of the article, postal
Romanization was based on a system called "Nanking syllabary" which was created by
762:
The references I added are just very basic references on romanizations, they don't say much about this conference as such. The
Internet is not a good sources either, as you have noticed. I think the only way to find something tangible is to browse the contemporary press in Shanghai, such as
735:
Thanks for the suggestion. The reason I rewrote the article is presisely because these articles tend to be translated into other languages and then spread further into cyber space, so I just had to fix this before the misunderstandings enter
Encyclopaedia Britannica! Just look at the
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did not exist when this "system" of romanization was invented. Instead people have been referring to these romanizations as based on the "Chinese postal map/atlas/guide" for a hundred years or so. So, I think there are good reasons for including the word "map" in the heading of this
841:(of Wade-Giles fame). Harris doesn't mention the French EFEO system, although this article does make an unsourced claim in this regard. Here is some more information I dug up that's not currently in the article: The first edition of the postal map was the
814:
needs tone marks, at the very least, if not characters; & an
English version of the title would certainly be useful! And the publisher should probably be translated as well: how on earth is a non-specialist reader meant to understand "chubanshe"?
710:
I have started to fix possible double redirects and I'm planning to replace "Postal system pinyin" interwikis with something shorter than "Chinese Postal Map
Romanization". I will probably use "Postal map" or "Postal map spelling". Any suggestions
579:
Great! As I see it now, "Chinese Postal Map
Romanization" is probably the most appropriate name for the article. "Imperial" only covers the Qing dynasty. I'll see if I can get more feedback and then I'll make a move in the next couple of days or
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among others. The general rule is to be as precise as necessary so someone reading the title can know what it stands for without reading the article. There are exceptions, such as for US place names, but this is not covered by any of them. See
1536:, says it was abolished in 1913. So I think we should delete that as well.) Still, conceivably an argument could be made for at least mentioning that one. At any rate, that's worth no more than a footnote.
936:
but that is implicit in the “Encyclopedia of China” and the others. We are not just an encyclopaedia of China, so need to be more precise. I have therefore moved it to restore “Chinese” to the title.--
626:
Yeah, that is a possible name as well. The reason why I chose "postal map" is because the romanization is often referred to as "postal map spelling" or "postal atlas spelling" in the literature.--
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postal romanization. I cannot find any refs to any other romanizations that can be called "postal romanization". If editors oppose this move with a cited ref, then I shall happily withdraw it.
670:
I just moved the page, I have also changed the romanization template accordingly. Please let me know if this move has caused any double redirects or broken links, and I will take care of it.--
871:
Peking (Beijing), Canton (Guangzhou), Amoy (Xiamen), Foochow (Fuzhou), Woosung (Wusong), Soochow (Suzhou), Chinkiang (Zhenjiang), Shasi (?), Chefoo (Yantai), and
Chinwangtao (Qinhuangdao).
1571:
788:
I have located the original source for this article; there is a Chinese article on the "postal system spelling" in the volume on language and writing in the great Chinese encyclopedia,
1443:
and related template pages, don't use these templates in citations—you have to specify language in the citation itself. if you want to know how to do this, let me know. cheers!
879:
Tientsin (Tianjin), Shantung (Shandong), Kiangsu (Jiangsu), Shansi (Shanxi), Hupeh (Hubei), Kirin (Jilin), Heilungkiang (Heilongjiang), Honan (Henan), and Kansu (Gansu).
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534:. I believe a move to a more appropriate English term is urgent, because a lot of web pages apparently quote Knowledge as an authority, I will continue checking.--
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in Nanjing in 1933 and 1936. Any modern reference to a postal map likely refers to one of these two editions. Earlier editions are much harder to get access to.
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at the heading of this article for that very reason. It invites objections from character-by-character translation purists, who are numerous here on Knowledge.
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Can we remove this template from the top of the page? I believe that there is no remaining non-English content that doesn't use an appropriate template.
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I've heard "postal system" used before (never w/o the "system") so I think this should be moved to "Postal system pinyin" (capitalize?). --
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without the "Chinese." If you look at other romanization articles, they don't specify a country, at least not in the name itself. It's
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in 1918-1921. (I gather Harris went to the archive and found maps for other years as well.) The Nationalists published a
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Postal System Pinyin is not a good name for this page, I will go and check the library and get back with a suggestion.--
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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that this article ultimately is a translation of. It gives the impression that the primary name of the romanization is
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Ohh gotcha, now I understand what it was that I saw there — it was one of the parameters of the citation, wasn't it?
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But within Knowledge, article titles are out of context. It is useful to specify which Postal. The other systems in
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calls the spelling system "Imperial Post Office romanization". Please give feedback soon, or I effect a move soon.--
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Perhaps "Chinese Postal Romanization" would be the best? I don't see how this system is exclusive to maps only. --
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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self-evident than I thought: it's probably just a direct adoption of the Chinese term (Youzhengshi pinyin) --
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Fixing all broken redirects is the onus of the editor moving a page (though one almost always ignored).
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Yeah! In addition, and I'll fix this later in this article, titles in non-Latin scripts need to use
1221:"Postal romanization" is apparently Library of Congress usage since it appears in several issues of
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Another alternative would be "Chinese Postal Atlas romanization", a term which is widely in use.--
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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By the way, I think I saw somewhere that some people are machine translating the article on the
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and that an English term should somehow refect that name. I am actually against having the term
1236:(2017). I don't think you would consider either of these books as references for this article.
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There's a public domain copy of these books. They've been in the public domain for decades. —
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In contrast, I found only two Gbook sources that use "Chinese postal romanization." These are
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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If you google, the article title comes up together with the first four lines of the article.
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Incidentally, it would be a good thing if citation templates were used for the references.
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in the previous discussion. On the one hand, the argument is good that a Google search "
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The 1961 ROC book, which I take to be the finalized version of this standard, is titled
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interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to
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is the only book-length treatment of this subject that I am aware of. The title is
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of this article has circulated on-line for a while, and eventually ended up here.--
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I'm not even sure if "system" (式 "manner") should be translated out. Maybe just
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It should be Postal *Map* romanization and then, yes, it's the only one. —
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into English. No wonder some China-related articles look the way they look.
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Harris calls it "Postal Romanization" right in the title of his article.
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Chinese Postal Map Romanization seems like the best name to me as well.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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The Chinese Writing System in Asia: An Interdisciplinary Perspective
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War and Occupation in China: The Letters of an American Missionary
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Looks good to me—I had a bit of fun as well—thanks for the help!
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published in 1903. This was followed up in 1907 and 1919 with a
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1214:"Names of cities, however, follow usual postal romanization."
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The most appropriate English term that I have found so far is
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If it's still the way I left it, I'll go undo that. Thanks!
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Does anyone off Knowledge call this subject "Chinese postal
1187:, such as Wade-Giles, are less in need of such labelling.
907:(2013), Perkins calls it "postal system of romanization."
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Examples of irregular spellings given on the postal map:
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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I think one source of confusion is the Chinese language
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You can put more information into any title. Where is
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to the page this article is a sloppy translation of.--
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This is such a good article, good work everyone 🙏🏻
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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101:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1524:to the city names in the D'Anville column of the
1378:for phonetic transcriptions, with an appropriate
1572:C-Class China-related articles of Mid-importance
1435:actually, just so you know, like it says on the
1204:Here are some usage examples from Google Books:
856:was an enclosure published as part of an annual
651:The basic problem, of course, is that the word
1149:" has the word "Chinese" as part of the name.
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1223:Quarterly Journal of the Library of Congress
1045:, after much-extended time for discussion.
740:, this needs to be fixed before it spreads.
431:Hmm...this title sounds a bit weird. How's
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566:Good idea. Thanks for looking into this.—
1230:Made in Taiwan: Studies in Popular Music
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200:This article falls within the scope of
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1587:Mid-importance Writing system articles
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956:anyway? Shouldn't it be Xi'an, China?
1567:Mid-importance China-related articles
228:Knowledge:WikiProject Writing systems
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1216:Guide to the Romanization of Chinese
313:This article is within the scope of
231:Template:WikiProject Writing systems
95:This article is within the scope of
38:It is of interest to the following
1368:for transliterated languages, and
1348:of its non-English content, using
437:Postal system Chinese romanization
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1597:Low-importance Philately articles
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998:for more details and examples.--
771:. I'll look for other sources.--
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875:Examples of regular spellings:
693:I know and I'm working on it.--
361:This article has been rated as
341:Knowledge:WikiProject Philately
248:This article has been rated as
135:This article has been rated as
1562:C-Class China-related articles
1518:Can I remove the additions of
1384:multilingual support templates
1246:06:10, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
1197:03:49, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
1159:03:26, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
1061:18:38, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
344:Template:WikiProject Philately
1:
1474:Kilvin the Futz-y Enterovirus
1472:) 00:57, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
1466:Kilvin the Futz-y Enterovirus
1433:Kilvin the Futz-y Enterovirus
1400:Kilvin the Futz-y Enterovirus
1324:Remove cleanup lang template?
1300:02:09, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
1281:02:09, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
1126:22:43, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
1108:14:14, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
1020:Requested move 29 August 2020
498:20:18, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
335:and see a list of open tasks.
109:and see a list of open tasks.
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801:15:32, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
776:12:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
727:10:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
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1172:Chinese Postal Romanization
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1066:Chinese postal romanization
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115:Knowledge:WikiProject China
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1577:WikiProject China articles
1548:14:32, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
1514:Remove foo-lish additions?
1504:00:58, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
1482:00:57, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
1457:00:18, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
1427:23:50, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
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545:Cambridge History of China
484:00:17, Aug 20, 2003 (UTC)
367:project's importance scale
254:project's importance scale
141:project's importance scale
118:Template:WikiProject China
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427:Some questions on naming
218:and/or leave a query at
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1147:Romanization of Chinese
474:Pinyin of Postal System
234:Writing system articles
220:the project’s talk page
1218:by David Jordan, 1971.
991:Durham, North Carolina
806:Encyclopedia reference
784:Source of this article
532:Postal Spelling System
121:China-related articles
28:This article is rated
1078:title, since this is
905:Encyclopedia of China
794:Unsourced transcripts
316:WikiProject Philately
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478:Postal System Pinyin
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854:Postal Map of China
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903:romanization"? In
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847:China Postal Album
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