Talk:City of Adelaide (1864)

71: 53: 1997:); I personally feel that the lead is too long, does read more like a promotional item than an encyclopedia entry and does not adequately summarise the article content. Secondly, some of the LEAD content could go in a new section discussing the ship's significance in the same style as a heritage assessment for, say, a building. Thirdly, I feel the article is dominated by the Rescue Project, particularly as the three of the six major headings concern the Rescue Project - can the three headings be merged together under one heading? Personally, I think the best long-term strategy would be to split the article in two - one for the rescue project which is notable in its own right and in principle, will be complete when the ship's hulk arrives in Adelaide, and one for the ship (including a summary of the project in 1858:

quick look finds "her" in the 1899 edition. These dates cover the entire merchant service of this ship. This is a good example of how this article is at variance with other sources. Whilst some would take the view that language changes and that change is good, the massively increased availability of historical material means that we need to consider retaining older usages so that these resources are easily understood. This certainly seems to be the view of modern authors - the blurb (I do not have the book to hand) on Eric Kentley's book on the Cutty Sark (published 2014) uses "she/her" as does the "maritime trivia" book in front of me, published in 2010.

2254:

person belongs to the Baby-boomers generation or Generation-X or Y. While arbitrary distinctions might be used by various journalists/authors, there is not a common socio-political definition used by all, and a person born in one person's definition of a Babyboomer might associate themselves more closely to Gen-X. Likewise, these things are generally judged in hindsight where people look backwards and notice different characteristics of different generations that can be used to set them apart, and then try to set up a classification of those generation differences.

928: 592: 1772:

no-one wants to offend the sensibilities of an editor who may have done a lot of work on a subject, but I an not sure what this "isolationist" view of style seeks to achieve beyond that. I think there is a compelling case for it reducing the readability of Knowledge (XXG). I am sure there are bigger problems than this one, but that does not remove the fact that the inconsistency with both (a) similar articles and (b) other sources (books, websites, historical material such as newspapers) detracts from the articles concerned.

397: 945: 2292:

where steam was not competitive. Windjammers were steel/iron because they were of that generation when those materials were replacing timber, but clippers were also made of steel/iron. The steel/iron meant that the generation of windjammers could be built much larger than the earlier generation of wooden or composite clippers, and hence carry much more cargo. Like Neanderthals and Homo-Sapiens, to use another analogy, they both co-existed but one breed outlasted the other.

518: 494: 802: 294: 273: 117: 161: 134: 411: 1264: 962: 953: 362: 171: 421: 636: 566: 2268:

could not use due to different metals being in contact ... but the hull material in this example just relates to speed and not the vessel classification of clipper/windjammer. Windjammers were generally the generation of sailing ships that succeeded clippers. They were high volume hull forms where sleekness and speed were sacrificed in order to be able to carry bulk cargoes. See also

1256: 937: 390: 542: 22: 1768:

power on deciding content than any consensus among other editors. I appreciate that there is a need to avoid edit wars - but I do not think that measures to resist bad behaviour by Wikipedians should damage the content of the encyclopedia. Clearly, gratuitous change of pronoun use should be avoided, but when there is an argument to make a change, it should be considered.

1077: 1070: 1091: 1444:

IE8 and Firefox. It also meant that, because of the constrained wrapping, some whitespace was created on the right beneath the photograph of the delegates. To me, that whitespace did not seem unnattractive. If it is that whitespace that you are tying to remove, then a better solution to moving the two images might be to place the four <ul: -->

611: 1084: 1454:

look towards the text, in my view there was previously some nice harmony on the page in that all of the photographs of individuals were on the left of the page. It also meant that all of the 110px and 220px images were vertically aligned. I thought that systematic approach added some elegance to the presentation.

241: 2721:(first contributor) about a Sunderland built composite, that was renamed by a Greek royal with a British title using the words ... and all who sail in her- a boat that is the pride of a Australian City- we use EN-BR or EN-AU conventions. This change is merely reverting vandalism. She is so well documented- for 2211:, on the other hand, was built for carrying a bulk commodity, jute from India, and not high value commodities such as tea or opium. Although later under ownership by Shaw, Savill and Company she did carry passengers on the New Zealand run, according to Lubbock her fastest voyage was 100 days, compared to 2720:

is ludicrous, for an entire teaching career I would explain to children that 'ships' are always she even if they are named after a male- such as the Carl Vinnen or the George the fifth. That is the English Language. Perhaps there is obscure dialect where it is done differently- but in British English

2349:

was classed by Lloyds as 'Experimental' because they had not established rules for classifying (and insuring) composite ships. The same would be the case if she was a paddlesteamer made of composite construction. It has no bearing on the definition of clipper/windjammer. The same with sails ... there

2176:

is currently rigged in this way. City of Adelaide was rigged in this way before it was dismasted. Ships of iron or composite construction, built before 1867, were entered on Lloyds register as experimental, so neither ship would be described as a clipper when first registered. RTFM before commenting,

1974:

I've now partially rewritten the second half of the article in the sandbox, from 1999 when the SMM stopped work, through to the ongoing transportation effort. I've attempted to improve formatting and referencing. If there's no objection over the weekend I'll paste it back into the article next week.

1717:

I note, in particular, that there is no example of exclusive use of "it" to refer to a ship in any of these articles. Only 10% of the articles have "it" used somewhere within them. 96% of articles use "she/her", 93% predominantly use "she/her", 85% exclusively use "she/her". That would appear to make

1582:

I will respect your request not to change "it" to "she" when referring to a ship - but I have to protest that this is not an issue of being gender-neutral. This is exactly the same as languages where every word has a gender - for instance "la porte" for "the door" in French. This whole article really

2947:

work. Instead, there is a message on the home page of the website that says: "Sorry this website is offline. Due to financial difficulties and mounting debts the clipper ship 'City of Adelaide' website will be down indefinitely." Without a website, I don't see how they will raise any money - so this

2062:

There is an inaccuracy on this page which niggles me, because I am unable to find a source - the article states that there are only two clippers left from the age of clippers, but there is one more surviving clipper STILL SAILING in the USA (it just gives joyrides around the home port these days). I

1453:

I was also trying to follow the manual of style where people portraits are recommended to look towards the text rather than away from it. From this respect, the two portraits would look better on the left. Notwithstanding that the painted portrait of Capt. Bruce at the top needs to be on right, to

3029:

Thanks for that. Hopefully the material in the defunct website can be restored in some way - the most important element for this article being the diary transcripts. They need an official website a.s.a.p. - I spotted this when thinking I might visit the ship in a year or two, when some progress had

2267:

Clippers were distinguished by sleek greyhound hull forms which gave them exceptional speed characteristics. The hull material was not of primary relevance, but would affect speed due to overall ship's weight and composite ships could use copper-sheathing to keep down marine growth that steel ships

1771:

I find "we do not look to other articles..." a rather strange statement. This "stand alone" view of an article is not a realistic fit with the editing principles - if you follow a link within the overall subject, will you suddenly be reading material using a different style guide? I appreciate that

1767:

There are two main points here. I feel that the rule of sticking with the first pronoun choice made, presumably, by the person who creates an article, to be a strange interpretation of the principles by which Knowledge (XXG) works. To explain: here we have one editor (the article creator) with more

1443:

I had previously placed the text in the 'Duke of Edinburgh Conference' subsection inside of a table because there is a rendering problem (at least in IE8) with the Unordered List bullets not being properly indented when adjacent to the portraits. Using the table makes them render correctly in both

3006:

I've just had advice that the website is a personal one owned by one of the Trust's directors, and not the property of the City of Adelaide Clipper Preservation Trust itself - they don't yet have an official website of their own, and so no means of making an official statement. There appears to be

2171:

The fact that City of Adelaide is a composite hull vessel is not relevant, Bahudhara. A clipper could have a hull of wood,iron, or composite construction. The article on clippers defines a clipper as having three or more square-rigged masts, but many were converted to barque rigs with fore and aft

1857:

On the suggestion about Lloyd's Register - "she" is used in all the early editions that include the City of Adelaide - it appears at about word 27 in the 1865 edition and this certainly continues through to 1874. The series I am using is incomplete thereafter but "she" is used again in 1883 and a

2987:

The impression I've got is that the people involved with the City of Adelaide Clipper Preservation Trust have been quite successful at the corporate and engineering level, but perhaps less so on the community level in attracting and organising an effective volunteer base. I'll ask around. Cheers,

2120:

That appears to be the ship I was thinking of. It was re-rigged like a barque in 1901, and still retains that rig. Not an uncommon ocurrence, the same thing happened to the Ambassador, which was said to be much easier to handle as a result, and the City of Adelaide. In its original state, as the

2015:

Thanks Cowdy, useful suggestions. I have cut down the rescue section a lot, but it may be worth considering a separate article as you suggest. I also agree with a "significance" section as you suggested, and have moved the list from the lead under such a heading. Still needs to be de-listified. I

1939:

Anyone keen to assist me in making an effort to get this article to FA class, with a view to being Feature Article on the day the ship arrives at Port Adelaide early next year? It really is a fascinating story, extremely well sourced already and with many more available, and also many fair use or

2291:

Hence, windjammers pursued lower value bulk cargoes where getting it to market quickly was not an imperative. Whereas steamships were able to kill of clipper ships due to steamships' speed regardless of winds, windjammers were able to survive through to the 1940s and 1950s with cargoes on routes

2253:

Hi Bahudhara, you are heading down the wrong path thinking that sail plans, construction, and Lloyds Classification are the defining features of clippers versus windjammers. It is fair to say that the distinction is, as you suspect, not black and white. It is akin to trying to differentiate if a

2451:

This article was originally written with female pronouns ("she", "her") to refer to the ship. This style existed from 21 January 2006 until 19:28, 12 July 2010, when it was altered to the genderless "it" and "its". There was no preceding discussion on the talk page and the edit summary did not

1439:

Hi Mjroots, recalling that you are using Firefox, I suggest that you open the article in IE8 for a review. Your recent move of the HRH and Sir Julian Oswald images looks terrible when viewed in IE8. (Firefox not so bad with a relatively small amount of white-space.) As IE8 is the predominant

1358:

Yes, it appears to be browser related. The Heading lines run over in some, but not all, articles using these Infoboxes when viewed using IE8. I have tested this using Firefox too now, and yes, the page renders correctly without the lines overlapping. For better or worse, IE8, is most common

761:

has an exceptionally long, perhaps near unprecedented, career that covers 146 years - fourth oldest merchant ship in the world, much older than the two example WWII military ships. I made a conscious decision to repeat the 'ship name' inside the box each time due to the four different names

1377:. However, since I added images to this article the rendering problem with IE8 has gone away. Thuse there seems to be some sort of anomaly occuring between the code for the two types of boxes that creates or stops error depending on the sequence that the boxes render onto the page.-- 1567:

did make many pertinent changes to the article that included grammatical changes and different opinions on style. It was therefore not appropriate to fully undo their contribution; only those edits that partially changed the gender of the article and made it internally inconsistent.

1583:

grates with its use of "it" for "she", especially in the context of authoritative sources on sailing ships and the age of sail, who exclusively use "she". To me, it has the sense of reducing the authority of the article, which is unfortunate, given the amount of material in it.

2746:

There are two primary criteria for the use of she or its in a ships article. It must be consistent throughout the article and the choice of the original editor must be respected. Clearly the second condition has been violated and the article should be restored to the original

2124:

One could argue that, as an experimental vessel, the Euterpe could not be described as a clipper, but the same argument would apply to the City of Adelaide, which was also technically experimental, built pre 1867 - and also destined to carry passengers to Australia and New

1558:

Andy Dingley, your assertion is not correct. You have overlooked that I have been working on this article for three years and largely brought it up to its present standard. During that time this article has been written as neutral-gender. It was a recent anonymous edit by

1878:

Perhaps I should have checked this first, but this article was started with the pronoun usage "she/her" on 21 Jan 2006. Therefore slavish adherence to the rules would compel restoration of this initial style choice. The major edit that changed "she" to "it" was

2764:. I have always created ship articles with "she". There was a discussion along these lines on the WP:SHIPS talkpage sometime ago regarding an editors belief that calling a ship "she" is out of date, I believe. I am not sure of the consensus, but it was heated. 2192:

I have no claim to expertise in these matters, and have no knowledge of Lloyd's classifications. Just comparing the scant data in the WP articles, it seems that it was not just the rigging and sail plan that were the distinguishing features of clippers - the

3389:

OK, peeps, I know that the ship is a very significant vessel and I read in another of these Talk sections that some cutting down of the Rescue section of the article had been done, in 2013 I think. But...really. I mean, come on. That section is just

2889:

Given the unanimity of the answers above, I plan to leave open for another 12 hours (thinking of editors in different time zones) and then (unless there is unexpected input) close off and start work on editing the article back to the agreed style.

1282:

Thanks Mjroots. That looks great. I will incorporate into the main page fixing up a few typos. Scottish devolution has played a role in the fate of the ship and so will use the country flags as they convey greater meaning (I am not Scottish btw).

1718:

the use of "it" in this article anomalous, certainly in the context of articles on very similar subjects (i.e. other clippers). Therefore there is a strong case to bring this article in line to match the style found elsewhere in Knowledge (XXG).

1445:

buletted paragraphs in this subsection inside of four separate tables. The text would wrap more that way and it is easy to implement. (Obviously this is a hack to overcome some underlying CSS shortfalls within Knowledge (XXG) globally.)

1616:

I thought I should add some statistics on the usage of "she/her" versus "it/its" when referring to ships. I looked at all the entries under Category:Tea clippers. You will see that this category consists of 29 articles. The usage is as

70: 52: 2472:

One could give particular emphasis to the usage employed in the diaries written by people who emigrated to Australia on this ship ("she") (see extended content) and the Knowledge (XXG) article on the only other surviving clipper

1749:

We do not look to other articles to decide what usage is appropriate here. Where one usage has been adopted, it should not be changed absent a substantial reason for doing so, and that is not an exception that swallows the

1399:

Hi Mjroots, I note your recent change reflecting Belfast. I agree that Belfast (or Dublin) seems very likely for the homeport from 1889-93 and so was appropriate. However, I have Lloyds Register for 1888-89 showing the

2452:

mention this change. This would appear to be a straightforward breach of the Manual of Style. It may be of note that the editor involved in this change now cites the relevant rule to defend the current choice of style.

2979: 2968:

That's news to me - although I'm not directly involved with the City of Adelaide Clipper Preservation Trust, through being involved with the Port of Adelaide branch of the National Trust of SA, I do know people who

2806:

by anyone with knowledge of nautical matters. Today its not quite so universal although those who work in the maritime industry generally refer to ships as being feminine and it grates to hear a ship referred to as

1791:

The Manual of Style, like other disagreements over policy, says to both sides "you're both right", and allows the person who started the article to set the style. If you want to change it this discussion should be

2662:

The following use "she"/"her" when referring to a ship, with one instance of "it" in the Nancarrow family diary, which uses "she"/"her" thereafter. The other diaries in the collection have no usage of either type.

3173: 1955:

I think this is a fantastic idea. I was reading the article a couple of days ago and thought it needed some serious work - lots of piecemeal additions and repetition. I have moved some of the text into a sandbox:

2030:

Hi Jonathan Oldenbuck, the upgrade to date looks really good. Thank you. The only comment that I have at the moment is that the "significance" section needs some more citations; I also agreed with the need to

762:(CoA-HMS-Car-CoA) but that might be the sort of thing that could be consolidated to shorten the box when the name has not changed. This is certainly a good test for the standard Infobox template! Any ideas? -- 3094:

The Port of Adelaide branch of the National Trust of SA (PoANT) will be setting up a local community history wiki for Port Adelaide by the end of this month, so there is definitely scope for articles on the

1474:

I have implemented this change to make article render correctly in IE8 and Firefox. The wrapping fix was simpler that stated above as it was easier to just move the right-hand image inside of the invisible

1838:(a - or perhaps the - major contributor to this article) has stated (above) "If there is a compelling reason to change this entire article to female pronouns, please make the case on this Talk page first." 1404:

was still registered in London. Do you have LLoyd's Register records post 1889 to be certain that the Port of Registry changed away from London? I have doubts it changed, but don't know for sure. Regards,--

1993:. while I have not got any spare time in the next couple of months & therefore cannot help, I would like to make some suggestions. Firstly, the Lead Section needs a tidy up to match WP requirements ( 1775:

I take it that your final suggestion is not a serious one, as this seriously reduces the readability of an article (I have read some whilst gathering statistics to make my points on this subject).

3654: 556: 2201:′s, and she was built for carrying passengers and for speed. She was one of the fastest ships on the London-Adelaide run; according to Lubbock, her record of only 65 days was beaten only by 2128:

This matter requires someone more knowledgeable than either of us to pass an opinion. "Windjammer" is a catch-all term. Any iron clipper was a windjammer. Not all windjammers were clippers.

3659: 2422:. I've also added references for this information. I have deleted "displacement" as this appears erroneous - if there is a suitable reference for this, please reinstate with the reference. 2725:

to the Harold Underhills 1952 definitive work "Deepwater Sail" pp12/159/160 "she is one of two composite clippers remaining with us today". Indeed Underhills dedicates the book to her.--

1512:

Please note that this article has been written with neutral-gender language. Please do not change the style to partly use female pronouns as that would make it internally inconsistent.

2857:. Feminine pronouns are usual for ships; but we should follow Knowledge (XXG) guidelines, which prescribe staying with the original usage of the article – feminine, in this case. 3649: 3174:

https://web.archive.org/20110512184710/http://www.north-ayrshire.gov.uk/ChiefExec/ArchiveCommRA.nsf/e9ee67f48fbb9003802569d700533758/af19a496b7884bc5802569f100346aab?OpenDocument

3289: 551: 380: 3584: 3177: 2102:

page explains the difference and even mentions the often made error in thinking they are the same type of ship. (This template might help you if you want to search further:

255: 2350:

have been many classes of ships with the same/similar sailplans over the centuries. The sailplan defines them as barque-rigged or whatever, not what type of ship they are.

344: 3497: 3493: 3479: 3331: 3327: 3313: 3213: 3209: 3195: 3639: 2874:. We've been here before. My personal preference for "she" is irrelevant; either is acceptable - but the article started with "she", and that is how it should stay. 1252:

Comments here will have to be indent / outdent due to infobox. I've no objection to the Union Flags being changed, but if one is changed, the so must the other - i.e.

532: 3599: 1563:

that made a partial change to female gender "shes", that I reverted, and then spotted a half-dozen "hers" that I had overlooked and also reverted. Please note that

389: 334: 2063:

remember finding pages about it a couple of years ago, my memory says it is an iron hulled vessel dating from 1865, but I can find nothing about it currently.

250: 144: 3644: 813:

Owners, Messrs Wm Pile, Hay & Co. Builders & the Officers of the Ship this print is most respectfully dedicated by their obedient servant, Wm. Foster�?.

2446: 1498: 691: 484: 3604: 3579: 1309:

has a Ship Characteristics Infobox that runs over multiple Headings without the clash. Perhaps there is a problem with the Ship Careers Infobox Template??--

1798:

I was serious in my final suggestion. It is possible to write a readable article while avoiding pronouns. Try it; you may find it easier than you think.

310: 231: 927: 87: 3669: 3614: 474: 2975: 3634: 3624: 3574: 2482: 508: 221: 3594: 527: 376: 3664: 3589: 2419: 666:

City of Adelaide (1864) A link to a major source of information has been created by the Adelaide, Australia based Action Group set up to save the

301: 278: 3455: 3629: 1419:

Hmm, If my change was incorrect, feel free to correct it. Was just going by what was said on SMM website, but LR would trump that in any case.

3290:

https://web.archive.org/web/20131005020348/http://www.headlandarchaeology.com/Services/consultancy/maritime_case_studies/city_of_adelaide.html

3100: 780:

I'll work on a new infobox and post it here for discussion. I'm used to dealing with ship that have several changes of name, owner, flag etc.

197: 3445: 1832:

OK, stepping back, for the moment, from whether the rules need reviewing, we have two linked points in this discussion that need addressing.

1328:

article but for the Ship Characteristics Infobox - and so 'Career' and 'Characteristics' Inoboxes both have the problem - but not always??--

3564: 3178:

http://www.north-ayrshire.gov.uk/ChiefExec/ArchiveCommRA.nsf/e9ee67f48fbb9003802569d700533758/af19a496b7884bc5802569f100346aab?OpenDocument

1218: 1150: 1125: 1056: 1029: 919: 897: 866: 830: 1840:(2) the Manual of Style says "...articles should not be changed from one style to another unless there is a substantial reason to do so." 1541: 1735:

uses "she/her" - surely another reason for this page to be consistent with other sources/persons interested in this and similar subjects.

3609: 2486:

I propose that the "ship pronoun style" be changed back to the original style in which this article was written, namely "she" and "her".

1564: 1560: 711: 396: 647: 91: 3619: 3569: 3293: 2469:(3) virtually all the historical material on this and similar vessels, including diaries, newspaper reports, Lloyd's Register, etc. 2216: 1509:

As with all optional styles, articles should not be changed from one style to another unless there is a substantial reason to do so.

450: 437: 367: 3475:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

3309:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

3299: 503: 372: 184: 139: 3435: 3163: 3559: 1515:

If there is a compelling reason to change this entire article to female pronouns, please make the case on this Talk page first.

33: 95: 1714:

You can check these figures quite easily for yourself. It just takes a bit of time (unless your speed-reading is very good).

78: 58: 2103: 3540: 3374: 2354:

was originally a square rigged (ship rig) clipper until 1881 when she became a barque-rigged clipper. I hope this helps.

2021: 1980: 1965: 746: 2561: 1990: 1506:

Either usage is acceptable, but each article should be internally consistent and employ one or the other exclusively.

1957: 1359:

browser used today and so I suspect most visitors are seeing this problem when looking at WikiProject Ships pages. --

3060:

with a portal to the diaries. I wonder if contact could be established and a little cooperation be put in place. --

3035: 2958: 2927: 2901: 2581: 2493: 2427: 1914: 1894: 1863: 1780: 1740: 1723: 1588: 2722: 1998: 2639: 2632: 2233:

does suggest the the dividing line between clippers and windjammers was not strictly defined in his day. Cheers,

3496:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

3330:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

3212:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

2914: 2837: 1373:

I discovered the same browser problem occurring on another non-Wikiships pages too - eg. the Beau Geste image on

3459: 39: 3456:

https://archive.is/20131212013656/http://www.wavy.com/news/local/norfolk/19th-century-clipper-ship-in-norfolk

3531: 3427: 3419: 3365: 3281: 3273: 3135: 2752: 2589: 2017: 1976: 1961: 1114:

Archaelogical deconstruction or removal to Sunderland, UK, or Adelaide, South Australia, under consideration

715: 3446:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130505024154/http://cityofadelaide.org.au/paxwiki/Diary_of_Frederick_Bullock

3423: 2700: 2601: 2577: 2371: 2203: 2111: 1573: 1549: 1520: 1480: 1462: 1409: 1382: 1364: 1333: 1314: 1306: 1288: 767: 671: 2782: 3515:

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

3503: 3349:

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

3337: 3251: 3231:

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

3219: 3031: 2954: 2923: 2897: 2651:

There are no articles in this category that exclusively use the neuter pronoun “it” to refer to a ship.

2617: 2585: 2545: 2541: 2516: 2489: 2458: 2423: 2313:(1863 windjammer = early Homo-Sapiens). The beams of the vessels were about the same, and the length of 1945: 1910: 1890: 1859: 1795:

If we are going to look elsewhere for guidance on the use of gender for ships, why not Lloyd's Register?

1776: 1736: 1719: 1584: 1374: 309:

on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

196:

on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

3426:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 3280:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 1503:

Ships may be referred to either using female pronouns ("she", "her") or neuter pronouns ("it", "its").

801: 3465: 3400: 3068: 2980:

Tours inside the City of Adelaide clipper resting in Port Adelaide will be offered for the first time

2845: 2824: 2733: 2646: 2628: 2525: 2081: 1325: 591: 21: 3294:

http://www.headlandarchaeology.com/Services/consultancy/maritime_case_studies/city_of_adelaide.html

3108: 3030:

been made and wanted to see a restoration plan (I live in the UK, so this would not be a day trip).

3012: 2993: 2609: 2593: 2397: 2238: 2155: 3449: 2455:

The result of this undiscussed change is that this article no longer follows the style adopted by

2178: 2129: 2064: 3300:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060208111227/http://www.historyscotland.com/features/svcarrick.html

2879: 2748: 2613: 2036: 2006: 1803: 1758: 446: 3500:

before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

3334:

before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

3216:

before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

652: 601: 3516: 3350: 3232: 2477:(also using the feminine pronoun). The usage ("she") by the director of the project to restore 3145: 2862: 2790: 2696: 2668: 2621: 2565: 2557: 2367: 2269: 2182: 2133: 2107: 2068: 1835: 1753:

There is a third option: eliminate the use of pronouns entirely. It is not that difficult.

1611: 1569: 1545: 1516: 1476: 1458: 1424: 1405: 1378: 1360: 1348: 1329: 1310: 1284: 1273: 1245: 785: 763: 735: 193: 3436:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100429101609/http://cityofadelaide.org.au/devitt-and-moore.html

3164:

https://web.archive.org/20100730034804/http://www.scottishmaritimemuseum.org:80/adelaide.html

2918: 1994: 1305:

Anyone have ideas on why the Heading lines are running over the InfoBox in the article? The

3247: 2769: 2597: 2569: 2553: 2549: 2467:(2) the majority of specialist books on similar ships, both newly published and older books 1941: 1224: 903: 810: 703: 426: 3523: 3357: 3239: 745:

I am not certain what to do about this issue. The Infobox follows the advice given in the

3395: 3153: 3063: 2841: 2820: 2728: 2533: 2529: 1846:(b) non-Knowledge (XXG) sources on (i) City of Adelaide and (ii) closely related subjects, 493: 176: 3303: 2016:

would further suggest that the "Ownership" section be merged into the "Service history"?

517: 3482:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 3316:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 3198:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 3104: 3008: 3007:

some sort of dispute going on between this director and the rest of the Trust. Cheers,

2989: 2812: 2664: 2481:

in the journal of the Royal Institute of Naval Architects may also have some authority.

2393: 2234: 2151: 2147: 293: 272: 3522:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

3489: 3394:

long (as are others). Is it *really* necessary to have soooooooooo much detail?

3356:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

3323: 3238:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

3205: 3167: 2673: 3553: 3439: 2875: 2677: 2573: 2032: 2002: 1799: 1754: 1540:

and removed the "she"s, before even raising this discussion. You seem to think that

754: 306: 86:-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other articles, please 2944:

I note that none of the links to the pages on the official City of Adelaide website

706:'s article, but other mattters have kept me away. Use this reference as you see fit. 3545: 3405: 3379: 3259: 3112: 3073: 3039: 3016: 2997: 2962: 2931: 2905: 2883: 2866: 2858: 2849: 2828: 2794: 2786: 2773: 2756: 2738: 2712:. I am entirely in support of this proposal. Changing the reference to a ship from 2704: 2497: 2431: 2401: 2375: 2242: 2186: 2159: 2137: 2115: 2072: 2040: 2025: 2010: 1984: 1969: 1949: 1918: 1898: 1867: 1807: 1784: 1762: 1744: 1727: 1592: 1577: 1553: 1524: 1484: 1466: 1428: 1420: 1413: 1386: 1368: 1352: 1344: 1337: 1318: 1292: 1277: 1269: 1241: 1062: 789: 781: 771: 739: 731: 719: 674: 116: 2913:

This discussion is now closed due to (1) unanimity of responses and (2) breach of

1940:

freely licensed pictures. I'll be able to devote some time to it in a few weeks.--

2765: 2695:

This has a long tradition for ships. I fail to see why it's at all contentious.

809:. Hand-coloured lithograph by Thomas Dutton, August 1864. Dedicated "To Messrs. 582: 410: 361: 635: 160: 133: 3488:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3322:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3204:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2605: 2537: 2474: 2099: 2095: 944: 565: 416: 166: 2681: 2150:, with a wrought iron frame with timber planking, not an iron hull. Cheers, 730:

The infobox is way too long, It should be consolidated as much as possible.

642: 442: 3460:

http://www.wavy.com/news/local/norfolk/19th-century-clipper-ship-in-norfolk

3057: 1842:

In short, does the choice of pronoun usage by the vast majority of other:

541: 94:. All interested editors are welcome. To use this banner, please see the 2457:(1) other Knowledge (XXG) articles on similar subjects, such as ships in 1960:. Its still a bit scrappy but feel free to comment/get stuck in. Thanks, 1263: 961: 952: 750: 189: 3150:

after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

1076: 1069: 2974:

The most recent story to appear in the local press was on 25 December,

2462: 2091: 1255: 1090: 936: 667: 2811:. On Wiki even aesthetically challenged ships, such as the newsworthy 978:

London - Plymouth - Adelaide - Port Augusta - London (typical 1867-83)

749:

description and is similar to the method used for the examples of the

578: 1229: 2080:

Hi Dotfret, I suspect that you are thinking of the iron hulled 1863

1083: 3466:

http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20090515014912/http://www.oph.gov.au/

1848:

constitute a "compelling" or "substantial" reason to make a change?

807:

Clipper Ship, 'City of Adelaide', 1000 tons, David Bruce, Commander

3158:

to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

702:

This is obviously of interest. I have been meaning to update the

2945: 2106:.) I therefore don't think that this page is inaccurate. Yours, 1733: 240: 83: 3450:

http://cityofadelaide.org.au/paxwiki/Diary_of_Frederick_Bullock

2951:

Is anyone in a position to add any local news on this matter?

2819:

so the City of Adelaide should be awarded the same courtesy.--

2321:

was sleeker, but her gross tonnage was more than 150% that of

1531:"this article has been written with neutral-gender language. " 1440:

browser used, I suggest that your change should be reverted.

630: 15: 1544:

over-rides long precedent for ships being considered female.

1449:

In hindsight, I should have put some

1343:

Is it a browser problem? I'm using Firefox and it's ok here.

3183:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

2840:

as clearly no consensus for change is going to emerge here.

2222:

34 MB download, see pp 346-365; there is a brief mention of

688:

Final pleas as deadline looms on the City of Adelaide's fate

590: 564: 540: 516: 492: 239: 2519:

for usage of feminine or neuter pronouns to refer to a ship

2447:

Knowledge (XXG):Manual_of_Style/Military_history § Pronouns

2418:

I've changed some of the data in the info box to match the

2317:

was about 15% longer. Prima facie it might be thought that

1499:

Knowledge (XXG):Manual_of_Style/Military_history § Pronouns

641:

A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s

3430:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

3284:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

2802:. Ships during the age of sail were always referred to as 1844:(a) Knowledge (XXG) articles on closely related subjects, 2982:, and these give no hint of impending financial problems. 2441:

Follows on from "Gender Neutral Article" section (above).

1240:

OK, try this for an infobox, much more compact methinks.

2392:

Thanks, Cruickshanks, very helpful explanation. Cheers,

3277: 3139: 3134:

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on

1885: 1880: 1538: 1536: 3304:

http://www.historyscotland.com/features/svcarrick.html

2333:

and this would account for a vessel being much slower.

2121:

Euterpe, the Star of India looks like a clipper to me.

2086:

which still (I believe) gives joy rides in San Diego.

1989:

Hi everyone, I saw notice of the upgrade to FA on the

441:, which aims to improve Knowledge (XXG)'s coverage of 3469: 2626:

Mostly “she”/”her” (in each case, one usage of “it”):

2215:′s record of 65 days, so she was hardly a fast ship.( 2665:

http://cityofadelaide.org/Diary_of_Frederick_Bullock

305:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 188:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3655:

Low-importance Australian maritime history articles

3492:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3326:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3208:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3168:

http://www.scottishmaritimemuseum.org/adelaide.html

2948:looks awfully like the start of a downward spiral. 2674:

http://cityofadelaide.org/Diary_of_James_McLauchlan

2461:(details in extended content), or articles such as 1375:

French_Foreign_Legion#References_in_popular_culture

683:

Recent News on City of Adelaide - December 15, 2009

3440:http://cityofadelaide.org.au/devitt-and-moore.html 2893:Please add any further comments below this message 2678:http://cityofadelaide.org/Diary_of_Melville_Miller 2229:On the other hand, the fact that Lubbock mentions 872:Bruce, Moore, Harrold Bros. & Martin (1864-87) 1887:This change is not mentioned in the edit summary. 1884:The previous version extensively uses "she/her": 3660:WikiProject Australian maritime history articles 1457:What do you think about reverting? Yours aye -- 1732:Additionally, the official website for the ship 3478:This message was posted before February 2018. 3312:This message was posted before February 2018. 3194:This message was posted before February 2018. 449:. If you would like to participate, visit the 2978:, and the one before that was on 31 October, 8: 3650:B-Class Australian maritime history articles 3585:Mid-importance Scotland Transport articles 2682:http://cityofadelaide.org/Nancarrow_Family 2502: 2197:′s hull was both longer and narrower than 356: 319:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Historic sites 267: 128: 47: 3418:I have just modified 4 external links on 3272:I have just modified 2 external links on 3101:Knowledge (XXG):Meetup/Adelaide/Meetup 14 1535:It hasn't been. You just went through it 2976:City of Adelaide's final voyage revealed 1634: 3640:Low-importance South Australia articles 1991:WikiProject Australian maritime history 1542:Knowledge (XXG):Gender-neutral language 1045:Removed from register 7th February 1895 552:WikiProject Australian maritime history 358: 269: 130: 49: 19: 3600:Low-importance Historic sites articles 3099:.and related topics at this end - see 796: 2309:(1864 clipper = late Neanderthal) to 1450:inside the article relating to this. 886:Scottish Maritime Museum (since 1992) 459:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Australia 7: 3645:WikiProject South Australia articles 2104:Template:Surviving_ocean_going_ships 1935:Upgrade to Feature Article Candidate 1096:United Kingdom Official Number 50036 692:deadline-looms-on-migrant-ships-fate 299:This article is within the scope of 206:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Scotland 182:This article is within the scope of 76:This article is within the scope of 3605:WikiProject Historic sites articles 3580:B-Class Scotland Transport articles 2655:Diaries of people who travelled on 1565:Special:Contributions/203.97.255.42 1561:Special:Contributions/203.97.255.42 878:Southampton Corporation (1893-1922) 322:Template:WikiProject Historic sites 38:It is of interest to the following 1301:Heading Lines Running Over InfoBox 573:Need help improving this article? 14: 3670:Selected anniversaries (May 2014) 3615:Low-importance Australia articles 3422:. Please take a moment to review 3276:. Please take a moment to review 3138:. Please take a moment to review 2921:seems to apply in this instance.) 2637:Both usages (1 instance of each): 2488:Please comment on this proposal. 251:WikiProject Transport in Scotland 104:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Ships 3635:B-Class South Australia articles 3625:Low-importance Adelaide articles 3575:Mid-importance Scotland articles 2329:was a much fuller hullform than 2325:. Therein is an indication that 1262: 1254: 1160:Passenger/migrant ship (1864-87) 1089: 1082: 1075: 1068: 960: 951: 943: 935: 926: 800: 634: 609: 583:State Library of South Australia 419: 409: 395: 388: 360: 292: 271: 169: 159: 132: 115: 69: 51: 20: 3595:B-Class Historic sites articles 1958:User:Jonathan Oldenbuck/Carrick 479:This article has been rated as 339:This article has been rated as 226:This article has been rated as 3665:WikiProject Australia articles 3590:All WikiProject Scotland pages 3406:17:21, 27 September 2017 (UTC) 605:can be contacted via email to 462:Template:WikiProject Australia 1: 3630:WikiProject Adelaide articles 3056:There is a very useful wiki- 2498:23:26, 31 December 2014 (UTC) 2432:20:33, 21 December 2014 (UTC) 2160:00:47, 17 February 2014 (UTC) 2138:21:52, 15 February 2014 (UTC) 2041:22:20, 20 November 2013 (UTC) 2026:11:47, 20 November 2013 (UTC) 2011:00:14, 16 November 2013 (UTC) 1985:13:19, 15 November 2013 (UTC) 1970:17:53, 14 November 2013 (UTC) 1899:23:23, 28 December 2014 (UTC) 1868:23:07, 28 December 2014 (UTC) 1808:15:09, 27 December 2014 (UTC) 1785:22:30, 26 December 2014 (UTC) 1763:16:38, 26 December 2014 (UTC) 1745:22:42, 23 December 2014 (UTC) 1728:20:17, 22 December 2014 (UTC) 1593:20:41, 21 December 2014 (UTC) 876:T S Dixon & Son (1889-93) 720:04:19, 23 December 2009 (UTC) 617:for non-editorial assistance. 579:National Library of Australia 549:This article is supported by 525:This article is supported by 501:This article is supported by 313:and see a list of open tasks. 248:This article is supported by 209:Template:WikiProject Scotland 200:and see a list of open tasks. 3546:06:18, 7 December 2017 (UTC) 3260:12:47, 14 January 2016 (UTC) 3113:00:08, 11 January 2015 (UTC) 3074:15:01, 10 January 2015 (UTC) 3040:09:09, 10 January 2015 (UTC) 3017:02:53, 10 January 2015 (UTC) 2998:02:02, 10 January 2015 (UTC) 2940:Severe financial difficulty? 2644:No examples of either usage: 2116:06:53, 22 January 2014 (UTC) 2073:22:55, 21 January 2014 (UTC) 1950:07:32, 4 November 2013 (UTC) 882:RNVR Club, Glasgow (1948-89) 747:Template:Infobox ship career 699:, December 15, 2009 12:00AM 3565:All WikiProject Ships pages 2963:20:58, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 2932:14:51, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 2906:00:04, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 2884:23:18, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 2867:21:01, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 2850:12:23, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 2829:10:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 2795:06:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 2774:01:14, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 2757:23:59, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 2739:23:56, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 2705:23:36, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 2562:Lord of the Isles (clipper) 1919:20:56, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 602:Wikimedia Australia chapter 528:WikiProject South Australia 82:, a project to improve all 3686: 3610:B-Class Australia articles 3509:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3415:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3380:09:55, 8 August 2017 (UTC) 3343:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3269:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3225:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3156:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 3131:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2917:validating the proposal. ( 2671:a later mayor of Adelaide) 2582:The Great Tea Race of 1866 2444: 2402:14:40, 12 March 2014 (UTC) 2376:06:30, 11 March 2014 (UTC) 2243:05:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC) 2187:22:17, 10 March 2014 (UTC) 2172:sails on the mizzen mast. 1909:See Style Proposal, below. 1578:11:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 1554:10:43, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 1525:10:28, 31 March 2012 (UTC) 1496: 1485:14:20, 5 August 2010 (UTC) 1395:Port of Registry post 1889 986:William Pile, Hay & Co 884:Clyde Ship Trust (1990-92) 485:project's importance scale 345:project's importance scale 302:WikiProject Historic sites 232:project's importance scale 107:Template:WikiProject Ships 3620:B-Class Adelaide articles 3570:B-Class Scotland articles 2640:Lammermuir (1856 clipper) 2633:Lammermuir (1864 clipper) 1467:01:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC) 1429:21:39, 17 July 2010 (UTC) 1414:12:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC) 1387:12:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC) 1369:04:22, 11 July 2010 (UTC) 1353:10:02, 29 June 2010 (UTC) 1338:18:16, 28 June 2010 (UTC) 1319:18:12, 28 June 2010 (UTC) 1293:16:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC) 1278:06:14, 26 June 2010 (UTC) 1216:list error: 1207:32 feet 2 inches (9.80 m) 1199:244 feet 1 inch (74.40 m) 1166:Hospital ship (1893-1922) 1148:list error: 1138: 1123:list error: 1054:list error: 1027:list error: 917:list error: 895:list error: 864:list error: 828:list error: 818: 799: 790:05:26, 26 June 2010 (UTC) 772:01:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC) 740:19:09, 22 June 2010 (UTC) 610: 598: 572: 548: 524: 500: 478: 404: 338: 287: 247: 225: 154: 64: 46: 1175:Museum ship (since 1991) 941:Southampton* (1889-1922) 908:As per owners since 1887 675:02:56, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 447:Australia-related topics 3420:City of Adelaide (1864) 3411:External links modified 3274:City of Adelaide (1864) 3265:External links modified 3136:City of Adelaide (1864) 3127:External links modified 2590:Sea Witch (1848 barque) 1324:Same problem occurs in 1171:Clubroom and restaurant 1168:Training ship (1922-48) 1139:General characteristics 435:is within the scope of 433:City of Adelaide (1864) 325:Historic sites articles 194:Scotland-related topics 90:, or contribute to the 3560:B-Class Ships articles 2602:Sir Lancelot (clipper) 2578:USS Nightingale (1851) 2148:composite construction 1493:Gender Neutral Article 1307:USS New Jersey (BB-62) 595: 569: 545: 521: 497: 244: 28:This article is rated 3058:City of Adelaide Wiki 2815:, are referred to as 2618:Thermopylae (clipper) 2586:Sea Serpent (clipper) 2542:Fiery Cross (clipper) 2523:Entirely “she”/”her”: 2517:Category:Tea clippers 2459:Category:Tea clippers 2327:Euterpe/Star of India 2319:Euterpe/Star of India 2315:Euterpe/Star of India 2311:Euterpe/Star of India 2219:The Colonial Clippers 594: 568: 544: 520: 496: 438:WikiProject Australia 243: 145:Transport in Scotland 32:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 3490:regular verification 3324:regular verification 3206:regular verification 3191:to let others know. 3142:. If necessary, add 2647:Robin Hood (clipper) 2629:Challenger (clipper) 2546:Hallowe'en (clipper) 2526:Ambassador (clipper) 2058:Suspected Inaccuracy 1326:USS Yorktown (CV-10) 1164:Cargo ship (1889-93) 966:Irvine* (since 1992) 957:Glasgow* (1948-1992) 948:Royal Navy (1922-48) 880:Royal Navy (1922-48) 504:WikiProject Adelaide 185:WikiProject Scotland 3480:After February 2018 3314:After February 2018 3196:After February 2018 3187:parameter below to 2610:Stornoway (clipper) 2594:Sea Witch (clipper) 2270:Block coefficient ( 2217:Lubbock, B. (1921) 1234:Derigged since 1893 874:C H Mowll (1887-89) 3534:InternetArchiveBot 3485:InternetArchiveBot 3470:http://oph.gov.au/ 3368:InternetArchiveBot 3319:InternetArchiveBot 3201:InternetArchiveBot 2723:McLauchlan diaries 2614:Surprise (clipper) 2018:Jonathan Oldenbuck 1977:Jonathan Oldenbuck 1962:Jonathan Oldenbuck 1638:exclusively "she" 695:Gavin Lower,From: 596: 570: 546: 522: 498: 465:Australia articles 245: 92:project discussion 34:content assessment 3510: 3385:Length of article 3344: 3258: 3226: 2688: 2687: 2669:Frederick Bullock 2622:Witch of the Wave 2566:Lothair (clipper) 2558:Leander (clipper) 2094:but is instead a 1836:User:Cruickshanks 1697: 1696: 1238: 1237: 1162:Collier (1887-89) 1157:Composite Clipper 659: 658: 629: 628: 625: 624: 621: 620: 355: 354: 351: 350: 266: 265: 262: 261: 212:Scotland articles 127: 126: 123: 122: 96:full instructions 79:WikiProject Ships 3677: 3544: 3535: 3508: 3507: 3486: 3403: 3398: 3378: 3369: 3342: 3341: 3320: 3254: 3253:Talk to my owner 3249: 3224: 3223: 3202: 3157: 3149: 3097:City of Adelaide 3072: 3066: 3032:ThoughtIdRetired 2955:ThoughtIdRetired 2924:ThoughtIdRetired 2898:ThoughtIdRetired 2737: 2731: 2657:City of Adelaide 2598:Serica (clipper) 2570:Memnon (clipper) 2554:Lahloo (clipper) 2550:Houqua (clipper) 2507:Extended content 2503: 2490:ThoughtIdRetired 2479:City of Adelaide 2424:ThoughtIdRetired 2352:City of Adelaide 2347:City of Adelaide 2331:City of Adelaide 2323:City of Adelaide 2307:City of Adelaide 2195:City of Adelaide 2144:City of Adelaide 1999:WP:Summary style 1911:ThoughtIdRetired 1891:ThoughtIdRetired 1860:ThoughtIdRetired 1777:ThoughtIdRetired 1737:ThoughtIdRetired 1720:ThoughtIdRetired 1635: 1615: 1585:ThoughtIdRetired 1402:City of Adelaide 1267: 1266: 1260:Southampton and 1259: 1258: 1225:Full rigged ship 1222: 1154: 1129: 1094: 1093: 1087: 1086: 1080: 1079: 1073: 1072: 1060: 1033: 965: 964: 956: 955: 947: 940: 939: 932:London (1864-89) 931: 930: 923: 913:Port of registry 904:Devitt and Moore 901: 870: 853:City of Adelaide 837:City of Adelaide 834: 811:Devitt and Moore 804: 797: 759:City of Adelaide 704:City of Adelaide 668:City of Adelaide 638: 631: 616: 615:wikimedia.org.au 614: 613: 612: 467: 466: 463: 460: 457: 429: 427:Australia portal 424: 423: 422: 413: 406: 405: 400: 399: 398: 393: 392: 391: 386: 383: 364: 357: 327: 326: 323: 320: 317: 296: 289: 288: 283: 275: 268: 214: 213: 210: 207: 204: 179: 174: 173: 172: 163: 156: 155: 150: 147: 136: 129: 119: 112: 111: 108: 105: 102: 88:join the project 73: 66: 65: 55: 48: 31: 25: 24: 16: 3685: 3684: 3680: 3679: 3678: 3676: 3675: 3674: 3550: 3549: 3538: 3533: 3501: 3494:have permission 3484: 3428:this simple FaQ 3413: 3401: 3396: 3387: 3372: 3367: 3335: 3328:have permission 3318: 3282:this simple FaQ 3267: 3257: 3252: 3217: 3210:have permission 3200: 3151: 3143: 3129: 3062: 3061: 2942: 2915:WP:SHIPPRONOUNS 2838:WP:SHIPPRONOUNS 2727: 2726: 2689: 2660: 2534:Comet (clipper) 2530:Ariel (clipper) 2521: 2508: 2449: 2439: 2416: 2275: 2060: 1937: 1609: 1501: 1495: 1437: 1397: 1303: 1261: 1253: 1215: 1147: 1122: 1088: 1081: 1074: 1067: 1053: 1026: 959: 950: 934: 925: 916: 894: 863: 827: 814: 728: 685: 672:124.178.209.107 664: 608: 606: 575:Ask a Librarian 464: 461: 458: 455: 454: 425: 420: 418: 394: 387: 384: 377:South Australia 370: 324: 321: 318: 315: 314: 281: 211: 208: 205: 202: 201: 177:Scotland portal 175: 170: 168: 148: 142: 109: 106: 103: 100: 99: 29: 12: 11: 5: 3683: 3681: 3673: 3672: 3667: 3662: 3657: 3652: 3647: 3642: 3637: 3632: 3627: 3622: 3617: 3612: 3607: 3602: 3597: 3592: 3587: 3582: 3577: 3572: 3567: 3562: 3552: 3551: 3528: 3527: 3520: 3473: 3472: 3464:Added archive 3462: 3454:Added archive 3452: 3444:Added archive 3442: 3434:Added archive 3412: 3409: 3386: 3383: 3362: 3361: 3354: 3307: 3306: 3298:Added archive 3296: 3288:Added archive 3266: 3263: 3250: 3244: 3243: 3236: 3181: 3180: 3172:Added archive 3170: 3162:Added archive 3128: 3125: 3124: 3123: 3122: 3121: 3120: 3119: 3118: 3117: 3116: 3115: 3083: 3082: 3081: 3080: 3079: 3078: 3077: 3076: 3047: 3046: 3045: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3022: 3021: 3020: 3019: 3001: 3000: 2984: 2983: 2971: 2970: 2941: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2934: 2922: 2896: 2891: 2887: 2886: 2869: 2852: 2836:. Revert per 2831: 2813:MV Hoegh Osaka 2797: 2776: 2759: 2741: 2710:Strong support 2707: 2686: 2685: 2680: 2676: 2672: 2659: 2653: 2645: 2638: 2627: 2524: 2520: 2513: 2510: 2509: 2506: 2501: 2487: 2468: 2466: 2456: 2442: 2438: 2437:Style proposal 2435: 2415: 2412: 2411: 2410: 2409: 2408: 2407: 2406: 2405: 2404: 2383: 2382: 2381: 2380: 2379: 2378: 2360: 2359: 2358: 2357: 2356: 2355: 2339: 2338: 2337: 2336: 2335: 2334: 2298: 2297: 2296: 2295: 2294: 2293: 2284: 2283: 2282: 2281: 2280: 2279: 2273: 2260: 2259: 2258: 2257: 2256: 2255: 2246: 2245: 2227: 2169: 2168: 2167: 2166: 2165: 2164: 2163: 2162: 2126: 2122: 2059: 2056: 2054: 2052: 2051: 2050: 2049: 2048: 2047: 2046: 2045: 2044: 2043: 1936: 1933: 1932: 1931: 1930: 1929: 1928: 1927: 1926: 1925: 1924: 1923: 1922: 1921: 1888: 1882: 1873: 1872: 1871: 1870: 1852: 1851: 1850: 1849: 1847: 1845: 1843: 1841: 1839: 1833: 1827: 1826: 1825: 1824: 1823: 1822: 1821: 1820: 1819: 1818: 1817: 1816: 1815: 1814: 1813: 1812: 1811: 1810: 1796: 1793: 1773: 1769: 1751: 1715: 1705: 1704: 1703: 1702: 1701: 1700: 1699: 1698: 1695: 1694: 1691: 1688: 1685: 1682: 1679: 1675: 1674: 1671: 1668: 1665: 1662: 1659: 1655: 1654: 1651: 1648: 1645: 1642: 1639: 1625: 1624: 1623: 1622: 1621: 1620: 1619: 1618: 1600: 1599: 1598: 1597: 1596: 1595: 1533: 1494: 1491: 1490: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1436: 1433: 1432: 1431: 1396: 1393: 1392: 1391: 1390: 1389: 1341: 1340: 1302: 1299: 1298: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1236: 1235: 1233: 1228: 1223: 1213: 1209: 1208: 1205: 1201: 1200: 1197: 1193: 1192: 1189: 1185: 1184: 1181: 1177: 1176: 1174: 1169: 1167: 1165: 1163: 1161: 1159: 1155: 1145: 1144:Class and type 1141: 1140: 1136: 1135: 1134: 1130: 1120: 1116: 1115: 1112: 1108: 1107: 1102: 1098: 1097: 1095: 1066: 1061: 1051: 1050:Identification 1047: 1046: 1043: 1039: 1038: 1036: 1034: 1024: 1023:Out of service 1020: 1019: 1016: 1012: 1011: 1008: 1007:Decommissioned 1004: 1003: 1000: 996: 995: 992: 988: 987: 984: 980: 979: 976: 972: 971: 967: 958: 949: 942: 933: 924: 914: 910: 909: 907: 902: 892: 888: 887: 885: 883: 881: 879: 877: 875: 873: 871: 861: 857: 856: 851: 846: 840: 835: 825: 821: 820: 816: 815: 805: 795: 794: 793: 792: 775: 774: 727: 724: 707: 697:The Australian 694: 690: 684: 681: 679: 663: 660: 657: 656: 639: 627: 626: 623: 622: 619: 618: 597: 587: 586: 571: 561: 560: 557:Low-importance 547: 537: 536: 533:Low-importance 523: 513: 512: 509:Low-importance 499: 489: 488: 481:Low-importance 477: 471: 470: 468: 431: 430: 414: 402: 401: 385:Low‑importance 365: 353: 352: 349: 348: 341:Low-importance 337: 331: 330: 328: 316:Historic sites 311:the discussion 307:historic sites 297: 285: 284: 282:Low‑importance 279:Historic sites 276: 264: 263: 260: 259: 256:Mid-importance 246: 236: 235: 228:Mid-importance 224: 218: 217: 215: 198:the discussion 181: 180: 164: 152: 151: 149:Mid‑importance 137: 125: 124: 121: 120: 113: 110:Ships articles 74: 62: 61: 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3682: 3671: 3668: 3666: 3663: 3661: 3658: 3656: 3653: 3651: 3648: 3646: 3643: 3641: 3638: 3636: 3633: 3631: 3628: 3626: 3623: 3621: 3618: 3616: 3613: 3611: 3608: 3606: 3603: 3601: 3598: 3596: 3593: 3591: 3588: 3586: 3583: 3581: 3578: 3576: 3573: 3571: 3568: 3566: 3563: 3561: 3558: 3557: 3555: 3548: 3547: 3542: 3537: 3536: 3525: 3521: 3518: 3514: 3513: 3512: 3505: 3499: 3495: 3491: 3487: 3481: 3476: 3471: 3467: 3463: 3461: 3457: 3453: 3451: 3447: 3443: 3441: 3437: 3433: 3432: 3431: 3429: 3425: 3421: 3416: 3410: 3408: 3407: 3404: 3399: 3393: 3384: 3382: 3381: 3376: 3371: 3370: 3359: 3355: 3352: 3348: 3347: 3346: 3339: 3333: 3329: 3325: 3321: 3315: 3310: 3305: 3301: 3297: 3295: 3291: 3287: 3286: 3285: 3283: 3279: 3275: 3270: 3264: 3262: 3261: 3255: 3248: 3241: 3237: 3234: 3230: 3229: 3228: 3221: 3215: 3211: 3207: 3203: 3197: 3192: 3190: 3186: 3179: 3175: 3171: 3169: 3165: 3161: 3160: 3159: 3155: 3147: 3141: 3137: 3132: 3126: 3114: 3110: 3106: 3102: 3098: 3093: 3092: 3091: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3086: 3085: 3084: 3075: 3070: 3065: 3059: 3055: 3054: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3050: 3049: 3048: 3041: 3037: 3033: 3028: 3027: 3026: 3025: 3024: 3023: 3018: 3014: 3010: 3005: 3004: 3003: 3002: 2999: 2995: 2991: 2986: 2985: 2981: 2977: 2973: 2972: 2967: 2966: 2965: 2964: 2960: 2956: 2952: 2949: 2946: 2939: 2933: 2929: 2925: 2920: 2916: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2908: 2907: 2903: 2899: 2894: 2885: 2881: 2877: 2873: 2870: 2868: 2864: 2860: 2856: 2853: 2851: 2847: 2843: 2839: 2835: 2832: 2830: 2826: 2822: 2818: 2814: 2810: 2805: 2801: 2798: 2796: 2792: 2788: 2784: 2781:reverting to 2780: 2777: 2775: 2771: 2767: 2763: 2760: 2758: 2754: 2750: 2749:Sturmvogel 66 2745: 2742: 2740: 2735: 2730: 2724: 2719: 2715: 2711: 2708: 2706: 2702: 2698: 2694: 2693:support 'she' 2691: 2690: 2684: 2683: 2679: 2675: 2670: 2666: 2658: 2654: 2652: 2649: 2648: 2642: 2641: 2635: 2634: 2630: 2624: 2623: 2619: 2615: 2611: 2607: 2603: 2599: 2595: 2591: 2587: 2583: 2579: 2575: 2574:Mimosa (ship) 2571: 2567: 2563: 2559: 2555: 2551: 2547: 2543: 2539: 2535: 2531: 2527: 2518: 2514: 2512: 2511: 2505: 2504: 2500: 2499: 2495: 2491: 2484: 2483: 2480: 2476: 2470: 2464: 2460: 2453: 2448: 2443: 2436: 2434: 2433: 2429: 2425: 2421: 2413: 2403: 2399: 2395: 2391: 2390: 2389: 2388: 2387: 2386: 2385: 2384: 2377: 2373: 2369: 2366: 2365: 2364: 2363: 2362: 2361: 2353: 2348: 2345: 2344: 2343: 2342: 2341: 2340: 2332: 2328: 2324: 2320: 2316: 2312: 2308: 2304: 2303: 2302: 2301: 2300: 2299: 2290: 2289: 2288: 2287: 2286: 2285: 2278: 2276: 2266: 2265: 2264: 2263: 2262: 2261: 2252: 2251: 2250: 2249: 2248: 2247: 2244: 2240: 2236: 2232: 2228: 2225: 2221: 2220: 2214: 2210: 2206: 2205: 2200: 2196: 2191: 2190: 2189: 2188: 2184: 2180: 2175: 2174:Star of India 2161: 2157: 2153: 2149: 2145: 2141: 2140: 2139: 2135: 2131: 2127: 2123: 2119: 2118: 2117: 2113: 2109: 2105: 2101: 2097: 2093: 2089: 2088:Star of India 2085: 2084: 2083:Star of India 2079: 2078: 2077: 2076: 2075: 2074: 2070: 2066: 2057: 2055: 2042: 2038: 2034: 2029: 2028: 2027: 2023: 2019: 2014: 2013: 2012: 2008: 2004: 2000: 1996: 1992: 1988: 1987: 1986: 1982: 1978: 1973: 1972: 1971: 1967: 1963: 1959: 1954: 1953: 1952: 1951: 1947: 1943: 1934: 1920: 1916: 1912: 1908: 1907: 1906: 1905: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1900: 1896: 1892: 1889: 1886: 1883: 1881: 1877: 1876: 1875: 1874: 1869: 1865: 1861: 1856: 1855: 1854: 1853: 1837: 1831: 1830: 1829: 1828: 1809: 1805: 1801: 1797: 1794: 1790: 1789: 1788: 1787: 1786: 1782: 1778: 1774: 1770: 1766: 1765: 1764: 1760: 1756: 1752: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1742: 1738: 1734: 1731: 1730: 1729: 1725: 1721: 1716: 1713: 1712: 1711: 1710: 1709: 1708: 1707: 1706: 1692: 1689: 1686: 1683: 1680: 1677: 1676: 1672: 1669: 1666: 1663: 1660: 1657: 1656: 1652: 1649: 1646: 1643: 1641:mostly "she" 1640: 1637: 1636: 1633: 1632: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1626: 1613: 1608: 1607: 1606: 1605: 1604: 1603: 1602: 1601: 1594: 1590: 1586: 1581: 1580: 1579: 1575: 1571: 1566: 1562: 1557: 1556: 1555: 1551: 1547: 1543: 1539: 1537: 1534: 1532: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1522: 1518: 1513: 1510: 1507: 1504: 1500: 1492: 1486: 1482: 1478: 1473: 1472: 1471: 1470: 1469: 1468: 1464: 1460: 1455: 1451: 1447: 1441: 1434: 1430: 1426: 1422: 1418: 1417: 1416: 1415: 1411: 1407: 1403: 1394: 1388: 1384: 1380: 1376: 1372: 1371: 1370: 1366: 1362: 1357: 1356: 1355: 1354: 1350: 1346: 1339: 1335: 1331: 1327: 1323: 1322: 1321: 1320: 1316: 1312: 1308: 1300: 1294: 1290: 1286: 1281: 1280: 1279: 1275: 1271: 1265: 1257: 1251: 1250: 1249: 1247: 1243: 1231: 1226: 1220: 1214: 1211: 1210: 1206: 1203: 1202: 1198: 1195: 1194: 1190: 1187: 1186: 1182: 1179: 1178: 1172: 1158: 1152: 1146: 1143: 1142: 1137: 1133: 1127: 1121: 1118: 1117: 1113: 1110: 1109: 1106: 1103: 1100: 1099: 1092: 1085: 1078: 1071: 1064: 1058: 1052: 1049: 1048: 1044: 1041: 1040: 1031: 1025: 1022: 1021: 1018:6 August 1864 1017: 1015:Maiden voyage 1014: 1013: 1009: 1006: 1005: 1001: 998: 997: 993: 990: 989: 985: 982: 981: 977: 974: 973: 970: 963: 954: 946: 938: 929: 921: 915: 912: 911: 905: 899: 893: 890: 889: 868: 862: 859: 858: 854: 849: 844: 838: 832: 826: 823: 822: 817: 812: 808: 803: 798: 791: 787: 783: 779: 778: 777: 776: 773: 769: 765: 760: 756: 755:USS Wisconsin 752: 748: 744: 743: 742: 741: 737: 733: 725: 723: 722: 721: 717: 713: 712:220.101.28.25 705: 700: 698: 693: 689: 682: 680: 677: 676: 673: 669: 661: 654: 650: 649: 644: 640: 637: 633: 632: 604: 603: 593: 589: 588: 584: 580: 576: 567: 563: 562: 558: 555:(assessed as 554: 553: 543: 539: 538: 534: 531:(assessed as 530: 529: 519: 515: 514: 510: 507:(assessed as 506: 505: 495: 491: 490: 486: 482: 476: 473: 472: 469: 452: 448: 444: 440: 439: 434: 428: 417: 415: 412: 408: 407: 403: 382: 378: 374: 369: 366: 363: 359: 346: 342: 336: 333: 332: 329: 312: 308: 304: 303: 298: 295: 291: 290: 286: 280: 277: 274: 270: 257: 254:(assessed as 253: 252: 242: 238: 237: 233: 229: 223: 220: 219: 216: 199: 195: 191: 187: 186: 178: 167: 165: 162: 158: 157: 153: 146: 141: 138: 135: 131: 118: 114: 97: 93: 89: 85: 81: 80: 75: 72: 68: 67: 63: 60: 57: 54: 50: 45: 41: 35: 27: 23: 18: 17: 3532: 3529: 3504:source check 3483: 3477: 3474: 3417: 3414: 3392:ridiculously 3391: 3388: 3366: 3363: 3338:source check 3317: 3311: 3308: 3271: 3268: 3245: 3220:source check 3199: 3193: 3188: 3184: 3182: 3133: 3130: 3096: 2953: 2950: 2943: 2892: 2888: 2871: 2854: 2833: 2816: 2808: 2803: 2799: 2783:WP:SHE4SHIPS 2778: 2761: 2743: 2717: 2713: 2709: 2697:Andy Dingley 2692: 2661: 2656: 2650: 2643: 2636: 2625: 2522: 2485: 2478: 2471: 2454: 2450: 2440: 2417: 2368:Cruickshanks 2351: 2346: 2330: 2326: 2322: 2318: 2314: 2310: 2306: 2271: 2230: 2223: 2218: 2212: 2208: 2202: 2198: 2194: 2173: 2170: 2143: 2108:Cruickshanks 2087: 2082: 2061: 2053: 1938: 1612:Cruickshanks 1570:Cruickshanks 1546:Andy Dingley 1530: 1517:Cruickshanks 1514: 1511: 1508: 1505: 1502: 1477:Cruickshanks 1459:Cruickshanks 1456: 1452: 1448: 1442: 1438: 1435:Images moved 1406:Cruickshanks 1401: 1398: 1379:Cruickshanks 1361:Cruickshanks 1342: 1330:Cruickshanks 1311:Cruickshanks 1304: 1285:Cruickshanks 1239: 1188:Tons burthen 1180:Displacement 1170: 1156: 1131: 1104: 1063:Code Letters 999:Commissioned 969:* = homeport 968: 855:(since 2001) 852: 847: 842: 836: 806: 764:Cruickshanks 758: 729: 709: 701: 696: 687: 686: 678: 665: 646: 599: 574: 550: 526: 502: 480: 451:project page 436: 432: 340: 300: 249: 227: 183: 77: 40:WikiProjects 3064:Clem Rutter 2729:Clem Rutter 2445:Main page: 1942:Yeti Hunter 1497:Main page: 1101:Nickname(s) 850:(1948-2001) 839:(1864-1922) 653:May 7, 2014 651:section on 648:On this day 3554:Categories 3541:Report bug 3397:Boscaswell 3375:Report bug 3103:. Cheers, 2842:Davidships 2821:Bluejacket 2606:Stag Hound 2538:Cutty Sark 2475:Cutty Sark 2420:user guide 2100:windjammer 2096:windjammer 2031:'de-list'. 1792:elsewhere. 1191:1,500 Tons 1037:Since 1948 994:7 May 1864 3524:this tool 3517:this tool 3358:this tool 3351:this tool 3240:this tool 3233:this tool 3105:Bahudhara 3009:Bahudhara 2990:Bahudhara 2515:Study of 2394:Bahudhara 2235:Bahudhara 2226:on p 351) 2177:please. 2152:Bahudhara 2090:is not a 1644:no usage 1268:Glasgow. 1232:(1881-93) 1227:(1864-81) 1212:Sail plan 1173:(1948-91) 1035:1889-1922 906:(1864-87) 845:(1922-48) 643:Main Page 581:, or the 456:Australia 443:Australia 368:Australia 3530:Cheers.— 3364:Cheers.— 3246:Cheers.— 3146:cbignore 2747:usage.-- 2414:Info box 2305:Compare 2213:Crusader 2125:Zealand. 2033:Cowdy001 2003:Cowdy001 1975:Thanks, 1800:Kablammo 1755:Kablammo 1617:follows: 1475:table.-- 1183:791 tons 1132:on stern 1105:The City 1042:Stricken 991:Launched 891:Operator 751:USS Bang 708:Regards 381:Maritime 373:Adelaide 203:Scotland 190:Scotland 140:Scotland 3424:my edit 3278:my edit 3256::Online 3185:checked 3140:my edit 2919:WP:SNOW 2872:Support 2859:Maproom 2855:Support 2834:Support 2800:Support 2787:Mjroots 2779:Support 2762:Support 2744:Support 2465:, etc. 2463:Clipper 2231:Euterpe 2224:Euterpe 2209:Euterpe 2204:Torrens 2199:Euterpe 2179:Dotfret 2130:Dotfret 2092:clipper 2065:Dotfret 1995:WP:LEAD 1421:Mjroots 1345:Mjroots 1270:Mjroots 1242:Mjroots 983:Builder 848:Carrick 843:Carrick 819:History 782:Mjroots 757:. The 732:Mjroots 726:Infobox 645:in the 577:at the 483:on the 343:on the 230:on the 30:B-class 3154:nobots 2766:Newm30 2146:is of 2098:. The 1653:total 1230:Barque 1217:list ( 1196:Length 1149:list ( 1124:list ( 1111:Status 1055:list ( 1028:list ( 918:list ( 896:list ( 865:list ( 829:list ( 662:source 36:scale. 1750:rule. 1693:100% 1650:both 1647:"it" 1119:Badge 975:Route 860:Owner 101:Ships 59:Ships 3402:talk 3189:true 3109:talk 3069:talk 3036:talk 3013:talk 2994:talk 2969:are. 2959:talk 2928:talk 2902:talk 2880:talk 2876:Shem 2863:talk 2846:talk 2825:talk 2791:talk 2770:talk 2753:talk 2734:talk 2701:talk 2494:talk 2428:talk 2398:talk 2372:talk 2239:talk 2183:talk 2156:talk 2142:The 2134:talk 2112:talk 2069:talk 2037:talk 2022:talk 2007:talk 1981:talk 1966:talk 1946:talk 1915:talk 1895:talk 1864:talk 1834:(1) 1804:talk 1781:talk 1759:talk 1741:talk 1724:talk 1678:86% 1589:talk 1574:talk 1550:talk 1521:talk 1481:talk 1463:talk 1425:talk 1410:talk 1383:talk 1365:talk 1349:talk 1334:talk 1315:talk 1289:talk 1274:talk 1246:talk 1219:help 1204:Beam 1151:help 1126:help 1065:WCLQ 1057:help 1030:help 1010:1948 1002:1923 920:help 898:help 867:help 841:HMS 831:help 824:Name 786:talk 768:talk 753:and 736:talk 716:talk 607:help 600:The 445:and 192:and 84:Ship 3498:RfC 3468:to 3458:to 3448:to 3438:to 3332:RfC 3302:to 3292:to 3214:RfC 3176:to 3166:to 2817:she 2804:she 2716:to 2714:she 1690:3% 1687:0% 1684:3% 1681:7% 1673:29 1658:25 670:. 475:Low 335:Low 222:Mid 3556:: 3511:. 3506:}} 3502:{{ 3345:. 3340:}} 3336:{{ 3227:. 3222:}} 3218:{{ 3152:{{ 3148:}} 3144:{{ 3111:) 3038:) 3015:) 2996:) 2961:) 2930:) 2904:) 2882:) 2865:) 2848:) 2827:) 2809:it 2793:) 2785:. 2772:) 2755:) 2718:it 2703:) 2631:, 2620:, 2616:, 2612:, 2608:, 2604:, 2600:, 2596:, 2592:, 2588:, 2584:, 2580:, 2576:, 2572:, 2568:, 2564:, 2560:, 2556:, 2552:, 2548:, 2544:, 2540:, 2536:, 2532:, 2528:, 2496:) 2430:) 2400:) 2374:) 2241:) 2207:. 2185:) 2158:) 2136:) 2114:) 2071:) 2039:) 2024:) 2009:) 2001:). 1983:) 1968:) 1948:) 1917:) 1897:) 1866:) 1806:) 1783:) 1761:) 1743:) 1726:) 1670:1 1667:0 1664:1 1661:2 1591:) 1576:) 1552:) 1523:) 1483:) 1465:) 1427:) 1412:) 1385:) 1367:) 1351:) 1336:) 1317:) 1291:) 1283:-- 1276:) 1248:) 788:) 770:) 738:) 718:) 710:-- 559:). 535:). 511:). 379:/ 375:/ 371:: 258:). 143:: 3543:) 3539:( 3526:. 3519:. 3377:) 3373:( 3360:. 3353:. 3242:. 3235:. 3107:( 3071:) 3067:( 3034:( 3011:( 2992:( 2957:( 2926:( 2900:( 2895:. 2878:( 2861:( 2844:( 2823:( 2789:( 2768:( 2751:( 2736:) 2732:( 2699:( 2667:( 2492:( 2426:( 2396:( 2370:( 2277:) 2274:b 2272:C 2237:( 2181:( 2154:( 2132:( 2110:( 2067:( 2035:( 2020:( 2005:( 1979:( 1964:( 1944:( 1913:( 1893:( 1862:( 1802:( 1779:( 1757:( 1739:( 1722:( 1614:: 1610:@ 1587:( 1572:( 1548:( 1519:( 1479:( 1461:( 1423:( 1408:( 1381:( 1363:( 1347:( 1332:( 1313:( 1287:( 1272:( 1244:( 1221:) 1153:) 1128:) 1059:) 1032:) 922:) 900:) 869:) 833:) 784:( 766:( 734:( 714:( 655:. 585:. 487:. 453:. 347:. 234:. 98:. 42::

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index