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understanding of the text."* However, the article this assertion is linked to DOES NOT maintain anything in support of the second sentence above, i.e. here is what the direct source actually says: "Modern debates over 4:34 inevitably hark back to a still widely used 1930 translation of the Koran by
British Muslim Marmaduke Pickthall, who determined the verse to mean that, as a last resort, men can "scourge" their wives." Nowhere in this quote does it ever suggest that Mr. Pickthall "did not view a form physical contact as the correct understanding of the text."
971:"Historical-whip (someone) as a punishment: ex. Our people did scourge him severely" (coming from the "Middle English: shortening of Old French escorge (noun), escorgier (verb), from Latin ex- 'thoroughly' + corrigia 'thong, whip.") In other words, to "scourge" one's wife is to indeed use physical violence against them (as in a whip, hand or stick.) In conclusion, you either need to introduce a new source that confirms the second sentence above or else it's unattributable to Pickthall. Thanks
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term "lightly" after "scourge?" Was it recently or is there a historical record of Muslim men being admonished to "merely lightly beat or whip" their womenfolk? Somehow, I doubt it, since almost all of the sources here that suggest merely "lightly beating" women as being sanctioned by this sura are rather contemporary interpretations, perhaps done in full recognition of the disapprobation non-Muslims generally hold towards wife beating being sanctioned by "God." Thanks
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1469:- English translations should ‘’’not’’’ simply present a list but should highlight differences in translation. We should choose a neutral, comprehensive, translation and then refer to differences in the textual analysis beneath. Most are pretty much saying the same thing, and alternate interpretations should be noted.
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Whilst several Muslim scholars contest that the meaning of the word اضربوهن, transcribed as "iḍribūhunna", as ambiguous, grammatically it is not. The Quran is grammatically very specific leaving little room for interpretation on this occasion. It is the plural imperative of the form 1 of the root ضرب
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This lawyer is not a reliable source for
Quranic exegesis. She is not a historian or an Islamic studies scholar. She publishes in law journals, and is a reliable source for matters of law, but not for matters of interpretation of the Quran or hadith. In this regard she is no better than any one else.
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Hello, the article is misinterpreting Islam by blatantly stating that it makes its conclusion by seeking an interpretation that fits its assumption that there is circular in nation. It also labels anyone who comes to a conclusion that contradicts it as bias, even when there is objective proof based
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I would like to see some discussion on where all these "scourge lightly" quotes are coming from? Is it revisionism (meaning that there is no correlation to what's actually written in the Koran and the later-interpreted "scourge (lightly)"? And if so, when did people start inserting the qualifying
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I'm sorry, but in this article there is a quote which says, "A widely used 1930 English translation of the Koran by
British Muslim scholar Marmaduke Pickthall determined the verse to mean that, as a last resort, men can "scourge" their wives. *He did not view a form physical contact as the correct
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This is in the article right now: | | Whilst several Muslim scholars contest that the meaning of the word اضربوهن, transcribed as "iḍribūhunna", as ambiguous, grammatically it is not. The Quran is grammatically very specific leaving little room for interpretation on this occasion. It is the plural
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I'm not sure what 'form 1' refers to, as a native Arabic speaker the etymology comes from ضرب which as explained could mean many things, not just to beat them. While generally this is how the word is interpreted, some terms from the source are still used in Arabic from taxes, dhara'ib, to stock
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I'm not sure what 'form 1' refers to, as a native Arabic speaker the etymology comes from ضرب which as explained could mean many things, not just to beat them. While generally this is how the word is interpreted, some terms from the source are still used in Arabic from taxes, dhara'ib, to stock
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imperative of the form 1 of the root ضرب and as such means "hit or beat". The ا prefix indicates the imperative command, ضرب is the root, the و suffix the plural of the command and finally هن, which is the third person female plural, or in layman's terms: them. In sum: "beat them." | |
1532:(relating to women's rights) and myself supported the same editorially too. IMO since topic potential is vast many Reliable sources on Google scholar seem to be available hence the article needs more editorial hands for some more update and expansion along with appropriate references.
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If we are to assume that the
English born and educated Pickthall used the famous Oxford English dictionary as his source of English definition upon which he based his translations from Arabic into English, here is what that source says about the meaning of "scourge":
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is too biased in terms of criticism of Islam, but that's another topic). Comparing with Bible verse pages (generally more well-written given the significantly greater number of
Western Wiki editors), I feel the issues should be solved with the following steps:
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I propose rewriting this article and making it neutral & objective by giving a full view of both sides of the story, i.e the muslim view which says this verse promotes rights of women, and the muslims who view it as a free ticket to dominate and suppress
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The article's name is An-Nisa 34. It shouldn't be confused with domestic violance in Islam. Verse is divided into 5 parts. Each part should be given equal importance. One minor part of one of 5 parts of verse shouldn't overcome other parts of verse.
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and as such means "hit or beat". The ا prefix indicates the imperative command, ضرب is the root, the و suffix the plural of the command and finally هن, which is the third person female plural, or in layman's terms: them. In sum: "beat them."
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I agree the sources are biased. And cherry-picked to present a rosy view of that verse while neglecting to mention the violent repercussions (e.g. the physical abuse) millions of Women in the
Islamic world suffer everyday.
1495:- Finally, controversy should discuss what the verse means as a whole, not just specific phrases. This verse does not discuss domestic violence per se, and so the conclusions arrived here might be different from those in
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Aright, enough of the stupidity. EVERY single scholar and commentator has said that verse 4:34 is a LIGHT TAP. I suggest we put in sources from academics, even non-Muslim ones, as THEY ALL say this is a LIGHT TAP.
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There is a hadith posted in the "Opposition to idribihûnna" section. However, the hadith no mention on whether what
Muhammad did was at all idribihûnna. In particular there is no evidence of any of the previous
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in 2014 Q3. Further details were available on the "Education
Program:Colgate University/CORE 151 I Legacies of the Ancient World (Fall 2014)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki.
928:. Also the usage of the term "grammatically" is misleading. No one is questioning the grammar of the Qur'anic revelation, but rather how readers of the written form may interpret it.
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Actually, no. SOME have added (lightly) in brackets when translating without any justification for adding the bracketed material that references the accuracy of the translation.--
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Men are in charge of Women. The Quran makes clear that superiority in power does not immediately mean one will be better in The Eyes of Allah On The Day Of
Resurrection.
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text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of
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1476:- Original Arabic text can be put first, along with a discussion on where the verse was revealed. Context should also discuss a bit about the chapter, etc.
287:. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them.
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we should be consistent with all articles about a specific quran verse, and that means it should be titled name of sura, followed by the verse.--
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I agree, dharaba and its consequences are used in several different contexts in the Qur'an with entirely different meanings, see Ahmad
Shafaat
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from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.
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I propose we move this article to "Exegesis of An-Nisa, 34". This would be a more meaningful title, and allow us directly address the topic.
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1482:- What’s already there should fall under a section called “Interpretive context” or something. Everything else should fall under that.
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The above named scholar gives what appears to me to be one of the best renderings, given the varied use of the term. He translates:
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And non-islamic sources equal automatically neutral ? Please do tell, which view in this matter do you consider to be neutral?
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This article appears very biased and not at all neutral. Nearly all of the sources written are Islamic sources. According to
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1) sources confirming the author's hypothesis, which currently runs: "there is only one true meaning, which is mine", and,
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According to most translations men are superior to women. Yet, there is this section that says that they are equal.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050404235348/http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=7061
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050404235348/http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=7061
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050404235348/http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=7061
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the sources need to be 3rd party and neutral to the topic at hand,while Islamic sources will clearly have a bias.
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for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Knowledge (XXG) takes copyright violations
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Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from:
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If the respective Editor cannot come through then I second your motion to delete the paragraph. Thank you.
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2) a precise usage of the term "grammatically" which cannot be simply a straw man for "interpretatively".
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As a whole, this article is rather disjointed and I feel has an overuse of apologetics (I feel the
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trading, mudharaba, kindly provide a source or else let's delete the para as false and unhelpful.
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trading, mudharaba, kindly provide a source or else let's delete the para as false and unhelpful.
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purely linguistically and Holistically. This article should have more criticism that exposes it.
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which could be based on other evidence. Also, I don’t feel that should be the main article.
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1488:- Verse 35 appears to be often discussed in connection with this (note ‘’discussed’’:
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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http://memri.de/uebersetzungen_analysen/themen/liberal_voices/ges_beating_22_03_04.pdf
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/20/AR2006102001261_2.html
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it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
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If you want to be consistent, why not move all these articles to "Exegesis of...".
1473:, which I much prefer in this regard, describes a lot of them as “unconvincing.”
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Thus this second sentence is revisionism not based on a source, pure and simple.
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Thoughts? Alternate suggestions? Anyone interested on moving forward with this?
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when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=7061
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http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=7061
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1466:- Beginning should offer an introduction to the content of the verse.
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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Pl. do join to update and expansion, your help will be most welcome.
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http://www.canadiancouncilofimams.com/pages/EFkFEEAkEuvurqQPyi.shtml
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I don't know if that helps with the article, as apparently some
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The Holy Qur'ān: Arabic Text, English Translation and Commentary
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https://www.islamicity.org/11451/quran-strikes-out-wife-beating
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read it as 'beat', but I thought it might be worth mentioning.
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Composition is not in accordance with the composition of verse
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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Pickthall is not being quoted correctly in this article.
1479:- Background should discuss the context of revelation.
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You are correct that we need more non-Islamic sources.
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1492:contraventions galore here) and warrants mention.
926:http://www.islamicperspectives.com/Quran-4-34.htm
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1485:- The next section should be Interpretations
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67:This is the
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1406:information
1402:copyrighted
1257:An-Nisa, 34
1168:Sourcecheck
1127:An-Nisa, 34
1022:An-Nisa, 34
778:—Preceding
736:129.120.4.2
196:free images
79:not a forum
73:An-Nisa, 34
1608:Categories
1421:plagiarize
1414:referenced
1358:Report bug
1238:Report bug
857:Brian Dell
827:Brendon is
755:Brendon is
721:digitwoman
1341:this tool
1334:this tool
1221:this tool
1214:this tool
1093:this tool
1086:this tool
942:Musa Emre
680:(Enlist!)
297:citations
136:if needed
119:Be polite
69:talk page
1576:DarkLink
1410:fair use
1347:Cheers.—
1227:Cheers.—
1099:Cheers.—
1032:cbignore
995:unsigned
780:unsigned
572:Arrow740
565:al-Hibri
548:deletion
295:Include
234:Archives
104:get help
77:This is
75:article.
48:deletion
1591:BB10000
1557:BB10000
1437:blocked
1261:my edit
1154:checked
1131:my edit
1109::Online
1061:checked
1026:my edit
676:Aryaman
524:summary
484:defunct
458:defunct
428:on the
319:C-class
279:dispute
202:WP refs
190:scholar
1542:Bookku
1383:unless
1162:failed
1040:nobots
819:before
719:women.
699:regent
694:steps.
641:regent
615:oppose
605:regent
589:regent
325:scale.
174:Google
1525:Hi,
1490:WP:OR
1441:/wiae
713:WP:RS
689:Aisha
401:Islam
392:Islam
348:Islam
217:JSTOR
178:books
132:Seek
1595:talk
1580:talk
1561:talk
1546:talk
1510:talk
1445:/tlk
1433:will
1396:For
1158:true
1065:true
1003:talk
977:talk
946:talk
915:talk
886:talk
861:talk
834:here
804:talk
788:talk
762:here
740:talk
725:talk
696:Vice
661:from
638:Vice
602:Vice
586:Vice
556:keep
554:was
210:FENS
184:news
121:and
56:keep
54:was
1435:be
1315:RfC
1285:to
1275:to
1195:RfC
1172:).
1160:or
1145:to
1052:to
626:gle
623:rin
620:Sef
420:Low
224:TWL
1610::
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1418:or
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