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whatever, and then those allegations were later proven to be true, that would be relevant. When you see that someone did something controversial, it matters to the controversy whether they were later vindicated or proven wrong. For instance, it matters whether Billy
Mitchell's controversial predictions about the future of air combat were proven true or not, even though that is a fact about air warfare and not about Billy Mitchell. If Tom Hanks said that someone who was the victim of a vicious mugging had actually staged the crime as a hoax to garner sympathy, that would be a very controversial accusation and the controversy would be part of his wikipedia page. It would chance how people think of him, to know that Tom Hanks had accused someone of that. People would be interested to know that he had made that accusation, so, therefore the fact that he made it would be part of Tom Hank's wikipedia page. If evidence emerged to prove or disprove the accusation, that would be relevant to the controversy. When deciding what to think of the thing that Tom Hanks hypothetically said, people would care whether or not his accusation proved correct or false. It would be relevant to the story. It would be crucial information for people to have about the controversial thing that Tom Hanks hypothetically did before they made up their minds about the subject. It's the obvious thing that people would want to know about what is being written about. It is the sort of thing that a journalist could not responsibly leave out, if they were writing an article about the incident later, even if the article was primarily about Tom Hank's role in the controversy.
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my position because it's too long so I'm not sure how we're supposed to debate the matter. I tried to give a full understanding and give hypothetical examples so that there was no chance of my being misunderstood. That's why it's long. I believe that my position on the matter is necessary to abide by both
Knowledge's rules and the rules of what makes sense when it comes to conveying information and writing about things in general.
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1310:"The talk shows for Sky News Australia engage in disinformation and should be considered generally unreliable". Now that means the only way we can accept the source is if there is some exception, however as soon as Bolt begins to talk he starts making claims about third parties and that rules out usage of the source per point 2 of
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But if the
Knowledge page says that Andrew Bolt apologized for the "hit on" comment, doesn't it make sense to link to the apology? How could that be unreliable? I guess it could be unreliable if the apology never occurred at the time the webpage says it did and a fake apology article was created at a
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TarnishedPath closed the discussion under NotForum and didn't take the time to fully explain what they mean by that in this case, which is understandable, but puts me in a difficult situation. I can't be sure, but I strongly suspect
TarnishedPath misread the situation. WP:NotForum doesn't apply here.
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We are discussing not the subject matter but whether certain changes to the article are appropriate. I think that the controversy section re: Bolt's accusations against Pascoe should include the outcome of the accusations. HiLo does not. But apparently he doesn't feel like reading my explanation of
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If it is controversial to accuse someone of (lying about) something, then it seems relevant to the controversy if those accusations are later shown to be true or false. For instance, if someone accused someone of being a spy working for a foreign government, or a pedophile, or the zodiac killer, or
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I'm not the type to get furious at words on a screen. However this is the first talk page discussion that's occured and you launch straight into hypotheticals which looks more like a forum discussion. Hardly helpful. The only discussion I've seen so far regarding edits has been in the form of edit
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I would add that this is the Talk page for the article on Andrew Bolt. That long initial post didn't mention him. It mentioned Bruce Pascoe in the heading, but not once in the text. Those were the facts that seemed to me to make it pointless to read in detail. I can't see how you are discussing
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later date and then backdated, or if Bolt didn't write it himself and it was fraudulently attributed to him without his knowledge/permission. I don't think that's what happened here though. What am I missing?
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summaries and that form of discussion is never going to be helpful. Edit summaries should explain what you've done, not be a proxy for discussion. If dispute arrises it should immediately be taken to talk.
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I don't know if
TarnishedPath is now going to be furious at me for undoing the closing of discussion, but I honestly believe it was done based on a misunderstanding. If I am wrong, please inform me.
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1314:. It is exactly the same with any of his blog articles or talk show episodes, every single one of them makes biased claims about third-parties. Not a single one of them is usable.
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Hi all, I've gone through the article and removed all the Herald Sun blog and Sky News references because neither are
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What? Nothing to do with Bolt. Again!!!!! Nor even Pascoe. Too long as well. Sorry. Not reading all that. Try again.
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I wasn't trying to debate the subject matter, I was purely talking about what changes should be made to the article.
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exception which might allow usage because they all make claims about third-parties.
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19:This is the
1265:Thank you.
1192:WP:NOTFORUM
998:Andrew Bolt
525:Andrew Bolt
148:free images
31:not a forum
25:Andrew Bolt
1343:Categories
994:photograph
755:Journalism
746:journalism
702:Journalism
473:Literature
437:photograph
548:Australia
535:Australia
464:Australia
384:Biography
317:Biography
256:libellous
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1083:contribs
1002:included
844:Blogging
838:inactive
812:inactive
807:Blogging
469:Politics
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1236:WP:GREL
1194:. Now @
1073:MrLefty
958:on the
782:on the
645:at the
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203:30 days
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1308:WP:RSP
1267:HiLo48
1178:HiLo48
1118:HiLo48
1065:, and
1034:Upload
1025:Flickr
294:scale.
126:Google
1298:, if
990:image
441:added
433:image
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1327:Path
1286:talk
1271:talk
1255:Path
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1182:talk
1166:Path
1144:talk
1122:talk
1107:talk
1077:talk
1015:The
671:help
664:The
537:and
373:and
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1324:hed
1321:nis
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1252:hed
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1163:hed
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