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literally an extra word for clarity and disambiguation. The point of the project-specific naming criteria is to sidestep fussing about edge cases about which secondary-topic film "deserves" less disambiguation. Readers are not harmed by this reasonable balance of disambiguation terms, which they are rarely going to type anyway. The effort toward culling disambiguation terms, like here, is unnecessary.
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It is not seen by the readers and works as a reminder to editors to keep the plot description concise with guideline. Also as a reminder to reviewers to watch out for bloating of the plot usually done by well-intentioned editors who want to make it look like a retelling of the story instead of a bare
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Hello, Wikipedians, there is a slight problem about the release date on the article. The info box and one of the main sections of the article had the release date as "November 11", but it is most likely the limited release for the film. I would like the official "November 25" release date to actually
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I was wondering the same thing. Frankly, this whole section was confusing to me because I don't spend any time trying to understand the entertainment industry's politics but it's written like a lot of things are supposed to be understood. When I got to the line you just pointed out I thought, "OK,
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Here are my thoughts on the matter. Aladdin (1992) is a popular film, and popular films tend to have some eager fans writing down excessively long plot summaries. Like plot summaries that you would find on a Fandom page. Thus, I believe that we can Keep the invisible comment. It takes up less bytes
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Plot summaries for feature films should be between 400 and 700 words. The summary should not exceed the range unless the film's structure is unconventional, such as with non-linear storylines, or unless the plot is too complicated to summarize in this range. (Discuss with other editors to determine
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it. There are positive reasons aplenty to doubt this idea: the location was supposed to be
Baghdad, nowhere near the Jordan River, but the name was swapped with a pseudoanagram after the Gulf War. Also, the topography is all wrong. And, not for nothing, it adds nothing to the article. But whatever,
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Furthermore, when the number of words is borderline (close to either 400 or 700), I think that the invisible notation to potential editors is important. I often add notation warnings to plots with more than 700 words (a very common issue). If the word count is 675 or 425, I often add the notation.
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such as for UK Parliament constituencies and U.S. state and territory highways. For films, if they have disambiguation terms, they should be disambiguated from one other. WP:IAR is not an excuse to do whatever one wants, and this move is not a step toward "improving or maintaining
Knowledge". It's
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Usually it gets added after a problem edit as a reminder. Sometimes on new articles before the plot section gets fully fleshed out, also as a reminder during expansion. Kind of an editor judgement call if some editor sees a need. Harmless to keep in an article but I, personally, don't add them to
2408:. I reject the entire notion of a primary parenthetical disambiguator that some here seem to be advocating for. The parenthetical disambiguators are, by definition, meant to be unambiguous. When there are 2 films with the same title that were released in the same year, neither of them should use (
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the "citation needed" tag to the point about
Agrabah being near the River Jordan. We never see any river in the film. The only evidence I've seen presented is the Peddler's comment that he has "the finest merchandise this side of" the river. This is not saying the city is near the river; it's an
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But there remains no definitive line defining which films warrant the directive and which do not. Who's to say which films are popular enough for editors to be concerned with over-expansion? And how can that directive be consistent? When the note is based more on word count than on popularity,
1193:, he disguises himself as a wealthy prince, and tries to impress the Sultan and his daughter." however his return to Agrabah has nothing to do with hiding from Jafar, only impressing the princess. The Grand Vizier should be mentioned in the finding of the lamp, not what Aladdin does with it.
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As I've said, I understand your reasoning, and again, I don't necessarily disagree with wanting to dissuade expansion beyond the guidelines. It's why I add the invisible guideline to plots with a borderline amount of words (like 675). I also agree that the more popular films should have more
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I don't think there's any point in having a policy regarding when the note should be added. As other editors have noted (sorry), adding the note does no harm, and I'm with
Geraldo in that I normally add the note when I have to chip away at a summary that's exceeded the guideline (I've never
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My only question, however, is where the line between popular enough and not popular enough is drawn? I think consistency is important. It's why I tend to opt to remove or omit it from films with a moderate number of words that falls well within the 400-700 limits.
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Just to elaborate, I tend to think that the directive for potential editors is unnecessary when there's little risk of editors to exceed the 400-700 guidelines. It's why I have eliminated the note in articles that have little chance of exceeding those
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popular enough to warrant it? Its plot has 539 words, yet the invisible note was recently added. Is that plot really at risk of over-expansion? Not at all. The warning in that plot is thoroughly pointless and a waste of a couple of bytes.
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The "to be fixed" list is just a dump of what was detected by a recent automatic search. The listed cases haven't been studied closely. The search found about 50 films, in fact; those have not been thoroughly checked. I just moved
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The more I think about it, the less I think that film popularity should play a part in the weight of placing a plot-length notation. I continue to opine that when a plot has 550 words, a 400-700 directive is unnecessary.
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Got it. The explanations by you and
Geraldo sound reasonable. I wasn't looking for policy as much as criteria. As a regular editor, I like to know the rules as much as possible (and I agree that this doesn't need a firm
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we only need to list the first date it was released anywhere at all and the first release date in the country of origin. Those are both the limited release as shown in the infobox sourced by "The
Numbers" reference
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I think you're overcomplicating things a bit here. I've never heard of an expression like that before. The dialogue in the film should be cited as it is. Also, various reliable sources and media outlets use this --
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For "an expression like that" see the
Wiktionary link above. The dialogue in the film does not support the claim in the article, as explained. I suspect those sources found this erroneous "fact" on Knowledge and
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Since you called me out by name here after pulling a power play, and have deleted my post on your page — thus minimizing the attention to your own behavior — I was hoping there'd be some sort of response to my
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I think the 400-700-word editor notation is pointless when a plot has 500-600 words, when editors are least likely to expand or shrink the plot beyond the
Wikipedian guidelines. You seem to think otherwise.
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I do understand your point about the note being helpful with the more popular films, so that someone with perhaps a lot of enthusiasm will not expand it too much. And I don't necessarily disagree.
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I remain of the opinion that a plot with a moderate amount of words needs no warning to editors. If an overly eager editor goes overboard, I think it can be dealt with on an individual basis.
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move should be overturned. But now that BarrelProof has revealed there are other film articles that blatantly contravene PFILM, all of those should be corrected as well (and why isn't
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may be a general indication of the tendency to consistently follow the rule rather than than a justification for exceptions. There are also various films listed in the recently added
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in
October 2018. By looking at the article's history, it seems that it wasn't there before that, and all the sources date prior to the addition, thus I doubt that it was propagated.
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I will continue to add the invisible note to plots with the potential of going overboard, but I will no longer remove the notation from films to which it's been added.
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Are there many examples of someone adding 150 words to an already-substantial summary? Do many plots with 550 words get expanded by the enthusiastic to more than 700?
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is just a collected list of what exists; it is not a guideline about what should exist. The fact that only one discussed case is listed there that is contrary to
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personally seen a film plot summary in danger of being too short), especially if it was particularly long or if it's a summary that's been a perennial problem.
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I'm tagging the statement rather than removing it again, in case there's some other justification for having it there. If not, though, it should be removed.
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TL;DR no harm is caused by adding it, but harm may be caused by removing it, so add it if you feel inclined, but don't remove it without compelling reason?
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2133:: It does not seem like a major burden to include "Disney" in the disambiguator to make it clear which film is the topic of the article. —
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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gives a fairly complete and sufficiently sourced description of what happened, when, and why. It matches what you stated above. We don't
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films, I noticed that the Disney film had, again, a ~76:1 pageview ratio with the Golden Films film, more than twice the ratio that the
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Also, I'd like to ask why such guideline exists only for films and not other forms of media such as music, literature or television.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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and its affiliated companies on
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summary. It costs nothing to keep the hidden instructional note and does help even with summaries well within the guidelines.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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source), and another one for that "November 11" date to specifify the two locations the film had a limited release date (
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The intro states "The film follows Aladdin, an Arabian street urchin, who finds a magic lamp containing a genie.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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But when the number of words is nowhere close, I believe the directive to be unnecessary, hence its removal.
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However, some editors ignore the hidden comment and expand the plot to above 700 words. I've also asked
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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Again, I ask how that policy can have any consistency. Where is the line drawn, and who's drawing it?
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to list the wide release date in the infobox, the initial release date is all that is needed there.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090519070127/http://disneymusic.disney.go.com/albums/disneymania3.html
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page until I put them there just minutes ago, and there was no hatnote about the ambiguity on the
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090416063832/http://www.scottweinger.net/article15.html
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090602043724/http://www.scottweinger.net/article13.html
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If there are any other thoughts about this, please post your thoughts here. Thanks,
2458:. I've restored the comment for now. As I don't want to get involved in a potential
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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
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on that list?). If you would like to contest the guideline, you should do so at
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —
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1947:. The film project has a special project-specific guideline (as permitted by
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essay might be helpful in removing unnecessary words in the plot summaries.
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is right that the addition of Disney is not too cumbersome for the title.
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Change "Arabic folktale same name" to "Arabic folktale of the same name".
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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
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That's literally what disambiguation does. Articles already exist for
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How can a painting by Picasso be a self portrait of Vincent van Gogh?
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Sorry for the late reply; I've been a bit busy with other things.
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Line Cinema_film)&diff=884196539&oldid=884171032 restored
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Spanish magazine article/interview about the 3D animation process
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Picture.CO.UK_film)&diff=863962158&oldid=863949859 added
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Fair enough. So, which film plots should have it? All of them?
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No war, and I too like most of the adjustments you've made.
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was also the last film by Disney to be entirely based on a
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from the river, since that would provide a wider region of
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On 27 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be
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if a summary cannot be contained within the proper range.)
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WP:PDAB#Partially disambiguated article titles to be fixed
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Right. That’s the inherent nature of the primary topic of
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has the limited release to specifify that it held in both
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
1153:'Uncle', I'm not smart enough to understand any of this."
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Articles created or improved during Wiki Loves Pride 2022
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http://disneymusic.disney.go.com/albums/disneymania3.html
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films had. Thus, I considered the Disney film to be the
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permits such Knowledge project-specific naming criteria"
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can
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WikiProject Animation - American animation work group
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the article attached to this page, help out with the
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articles until I fix a problem edit and see a need.
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2440:While I agree with most of the recent changes by
1973:(policy) trumps poorly-conceived guidelines like
1247:Aladdin (1992 MGM/Universal Pictures.CO.UK film)
2465:On quite a few other film GAs and FAs (such as
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2901:GA-Class Animation articles of High-importance
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48:If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
944:WikiProject Film - American cinema task force
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1481:Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2019
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2986:Unknown-importance American cinema articles
2941:GA-Class Disney articles of High-importance
2911:High-importance American animation articles
1587:Semi-protected edit request on 22 June 2021
2487:Knowledge:How to streamline a plot summary
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2793:Thank you to everyone for the input.
1652:page move requests should be made at
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7:
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1173:October 22nd 2018 by a wiki newb
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1379:greatest thing since sliced bread
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1903:01:07, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
1855:closed by non-admin page mover
1681:The article has the sentence "
1441:this is beneath edit warring.
1187:) 02:42, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
1002:Template:Wiki Loves Pride talk
444:Template:WikiProject Animation
29:has been listed as one of the
1:
2851:Media and drama good articles
2197:I noticed that listed on the
1740:13:02, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
1677:"last film based on folklore"
1476:04:14, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
1449:06:17, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
1427:04:19, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
1400:03:38, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
1232:04:33, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
941:This article is supported by
905:This article is supported by
699:and see a list of open tasks.
610:and see a list of open tasks.
510:the Animated films work group
507:This article is supported by
483:This article is supported by
33:Media and drama good articles
2951:GA-Class Arab world articles
2412:film) as the disambiguator.
1209:02:40, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
616:Knowledge:WikiProject Disney
2946:WikiProject Disney articles
2891:GA-Class Animation articles
2422:07:56, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
2326:from that section into the
2078:, like any primary topic. —
1868:16:05, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
1621:to reactivate your request.
1609:has been answered. Set the
1515:to reactivate your request.
1503:has been answered. Set the
1147:22:12, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
619:Template:WikiProject Disney
3012:
2817:02:00, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
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2567:01:58, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
2536:22:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
2506:21:00, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
2215:on December 11, 2022 (see
2152:with not much to add but @
1874:Aladdin (1992 Disney film)
1815:17:05, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
1780:16:04, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
1731:is based on a fairy tale (
1552:12:29, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
1531:12:14, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
1326:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1242:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1163:18:07, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
999:Knowledge:Wiki Loves Pride
873:project's importance scale
731:project's importance scale
642:project's importance scale
467:project's importance scale
316:American cinema task force
289:Knowledge:WikiProject Film
27:Aladdin (1992 Disney film)
2886:WikiProject Film articles
2305:Talk:Parasite (2019 film)
2229:When it came to the 1992
1943:as textbook violation of
1671:03:04, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
1654:Knowledge:Requested moves
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2301:Talk:Titanic (1997 film)
1891:(1992 Golden Films film)
1835:Please do not modify it.
808:United States of America
2846:Knowledge good articles
2483:The Empire Strikes Back
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2076:Aladdin (1992 film)
1879:Aladdin (1992 film)
1368:"River Jordan" line
1297:After February 2018
1234:Evan Kalani Opedal
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1969:Thankfully,
1949:WP:PRECISION
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1195:— Preceding
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1175:— Preceding
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195:WikiProjects
160:Good article
159:
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127:
122:June 6, 2009
108:
90:
89:
49:
47:
43:please do so
31:
30:
26:
2601:WP:FILMPLOT
2572:assertions.
2383:BarrelProof
2332:BarrelProof
2328:WP:PDABLIST
2271:BarrelProof
2259:WP:PDABLIST
2224:(2019 film)
2213:(1988 film)
2199:WP:PDABLIST
2185:Betty Logan
2154:BarrelProof
2135:BarrelProof
2105:"Policy at
2062:Georgia guy
2044:(2019 film)
2037:(1958 film)
2020:Georgia guy
1860:– robertsky
1840:move review
1764:Los Angeles
1733:Henny Penny
1468:Musicfan122
1419:Musicfan122
1387:merchandise
936:Film portal
252:Film portal
103:May 4, 2007
2840:Categories
2795:milladrive
2733:milladrive
2704:milladrive
2658:milladrive
2584:milladrive
2582:Thoughts?
2559:milladrive
2528:milladrive
2442:Milladrive
2414:Rreagan007
2381:page. —
1926:per nom.--
1849:not moved.
1699:(based on
1611:|answered=
1505:|answered=
1438:propagated
1358:Report bug
1139:71.13.26.7
702:Arab world
693:Arab world
665:Arab world
433:discussion
429:open tasks
281:guidelines
269:open tasks
37:under the
2350:WT:NCFILM
2297:WT:NCFILM
1713:Hua Mulan
1687:fairytale
1341:this tool
1334:this tool
1103:Archive 1
1072:not moved
759:Animation
438:Animation
421:animation
360:Animation
2779:policy).
2460:edit war
2452:contribs
2101:WP:PFILM
1975:WP:PFILM
1945:WP:PFILM
1928:Ortizesp
1882:– Clear
1723:Heracles
1718:Hercules
1702:Rapunzel
1691:folklore
1648:Not done
1546:aboideau
1443:Lagrange
1394:Lagrange
1347:Cheers.—
1197:unsigned
1177:unsigned
1169:synopsis
1091:Archives
533:selected
365:American
223:Animated
219:American
185:GA-class
134:Delisted
115:Reviewed
51:reassess
2809:DonIago
2766:DonIago
2613:WT:FILM
2541:limits.
2377:Vertigo
2368:Vertigo
2346:WT:FILM
2231:Aladdin
2122:contrib
2042:Aladdin
2035:Aladdin
2016:Aladdin
1924:Support
1909:Support
1889:Aladdin
1696:Tangled
1683:Aladdin
1372:I have
1251:my edit
1130:Picasso
871:on the
729:on the
640:on the
465:on the
74:Process
2698:Popeye
2406:Oppose
2379:(film)
2293:Willow
2289:Willow
2287:, the
2269:. —
2235:Willow
2222:Willow
2211:Willow
2206:(film)
2204:Willow
2173:Oppose
2150:Oppose
2131:Oppose
2097:Oppose
2012:Oppose
1971:WP:IAR
1715:) and
837:Alerts
763:Cinema
613:Disney
560:Disney
191:scale.
153:Listed
96:Listed
77:Result
2641:info.
2283:As I
1886:from
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1615:|ans=
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1060:moved
369:Films
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2799:talk
2770:talk
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2737:talk
2723:talk
2708:talk
2662:talk
2621:talk
2588:talk
2563:talk
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2498:talk
2456:here
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2418:talk
2410:year
2387:talk
2358:talk
2336:talk
2313:talk
2303:and
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2250:talk
2189:talk
2179:and
2175:per
2162:talk
2139:talk
2118:talk
2114:Erik
2099:per
2066:talk
2052:talk
2039:and
2024:talk
1995:talk
1957:talk
1932:talk
1899:talk
1864:talk
1811:talk
1803:need
1793:and
1785:Per
1776:talk
1766:and
1760:IMDb
1665:HL ↗
1632:talk
1578:talk
1542:Done
1527:talk
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1228:talk
1205:talk
1185:talk
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632:High
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271:and
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71:Date
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