1170:(1979, edited by W. E. Kennick) is a 729-page textbook of writings by thinkers from three centuries who have grappled with the question "what is art?". A foundational premise (p. 4) is that "'art' refers to a certain human activity, or group of related activities, as well as to the products of that activity, or those activities". According to the definition you seem to lean toward (as in "The third argument"), anything at all that people appreciate is art, which renders the term rather meaningless: a hen's egg is art, an attractive cloud is art, the moon is art, etc. Standard books about art and the arts do not mention non-human animals as artists at all, or objects that are not artifacts as works of art, and Knowledge follows sources. If you think there's "a glaring issue" in the "second argument" take it up with Nattiezâwe cannot know whether a bird thinks of a bird's vocalization as music or as something else (maybe an alarm or a demonstration of fitness). A trained parrot may be able to reproduce many words and phrases; every time it chooses certain words/phrases/squawks and puts them together in combinations never heard before it performs the same activity a human writer performs, so given your stated beliefs it is not clear why you reject the idea of parrot as poet. If you really want to add a line to this article about elephants trained to make paintings, place it near the bottom of the article please, because it is trivia; it does not belong in the lead section, and certainly not in the first sentence.
1122:âPopular media has often drawn attention to trained elephants or monkeys who can swing a paintbrush, but can you name any notable works of art made by non-humans? Has any non-human animal ever trained another non-human animal to paint or draw or compose waltzes? It would seem that the animal performer is merely a utensil used by a human to produce a novel sensation, a saleable product, or (often) a demonstration of how little skill it takes to create art that will impress supposed experts.â Is flawed and as I see it quite disingenuous as the point you made about me being able to name an artwork has nothing to do with this, your second point is quite useless as a painting or drawing or waltz isnât something that has been universally made by humans though I appreciate your use of the phrase ââŚnon-human animalâŚâ . The point you make about how itâs only used to make a unique product to sell is not so strong due to the use of art as a form of stimulation in zoos as well as to sell which I do not deny. The point made about art critics is not very logical as modern art is in someway an expression of oneâs self and the process of putting something done.
1034:. Wind blowing through trees may sound like music, in which case no animal of any kind needs to be involved. Your edit states that art is a range of activities "most commonly displayed in humans", but this is unsupported, and there are more ants building anthills than there are human artists, and always have been. Popular media has often drawn attention to trained elephants or monkeys who can swing a paintbrush, but can you name any notable works of art made by non-humans? Has any non-human animal ever trained another non-human animal to paint or draw or compose waltzes? It would seem that the animal performer is merely a utensil used by a human to produce a novel sensation, a saleable product, or (often) a demonstration of how little skill it takes to create art that will impress supposed experts. Just as a chimpanzee given a brush and paint can be trained to produce something that resembles abstract expressionism, a trained parrot can utter a string of words and phrases that may sound like poetry to a human ear; do you propose mentioning parrots in the lead section of
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In fiction, it seems quite natural to accept art as something that can be created by non-humans (by anthropomorphic animals, for instance), indicating that the human aspect is not a strong factor in the general interpretation of the concept. The possibility of extra-terrestrial cultures is also quite
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I feel it is necessary to come to a proper consensus rather than just reverting. This isnât a clear cut issue and one of the shortcomings of the current definition is itâs necessarily biased as we are humans, so any definition will be quite Non-anthropomorphicâthere is an entire article dedicated to
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is that it is a human activity.â Has a few issues as that definition is only used, as far as I could see by Oxford
Languages, which is an issue as most other definitions of art didnât even mention humans/people (most did use pronouns in the example which could be inferred as talking about a human).
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philosophy. If this is acknowledged it is problematic that the wikipedia article on art, in its current reading, frames art in this fashion. That is predominantly because of the current position in the article of
Richard Wollheims distinctions . I will argue that it is at odds with the neutrality
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seems a more urgent reason to adjust the article's definition, since there's little reason to not call art created by algorithms art, but good reason to not call that a human activity. The prompts don't have to be provided by an artist, so the algorithm is generally considered the more defining
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you present â Your edit states that art is a range of activities "most commonly displayed in humans", but this is unsupported, and there are more ants building anthills than there are human artists, and always have been.â Is correct and the wording I had can definitely be improved upon but the
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you give is â Just as a chimpanzee given a brush and paint can be trained to produce something that resembles abstract expressionism, a trained parrot can utter a string of words and phrases that may sound like poetry to a human ear; do you propose mentioning parrots in the lead section of
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element than the person asking for a desired result. The article already mentions a necessity of a "re-evaluation of aesthetic theory in art history today and a reconsideration of the limits of human creativity" as a consequence of AI use of images.
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is that it is a human activity. It's one thing to say every bird or cricket or frog or whale is a musician, although the conventional view is that only human judgment decides what is or is not music, as suggested by Jean-Jacques
Nattiez
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policy. In the extension of this argument, one should seek to adapt the habit of adressing the cultural position of information. This can be done in a simple and elegant way without problem; for instant.
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you present â Wind blowing through trees may sound like music, in which case no animal of any kind needs to be involved.â I do agree no animal is needed to make art by some definitions like
Cambridgeâs
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A simple solution could be to change "human activity" to "cultural activity". Maybe not a totally flawless alternative, but at least a bluelink to
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at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
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Art is defined in terms of human activity even by the examples you cite, and more explicitly so by the better sources.
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1125:(On a less relevant note I would recommend doing some impressionist or abstract art as itâs just fun to do).
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for a crowd. The final point is flawed as not all spiders make webs but I get whatâs your saying.
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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not make those sounds so not parrots donât belong in Poetry anymore than if I were to sing in
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overall I feel that the current article needs to be changed in some way to accommodate this.
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thank you for your willingness to find a solution to the current disagreement.
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Here are a couple of definitions that contrasts oxford languageâs one:
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P.S. thank you for contributing to this discussion, have a good day.
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article in some way need to be changed to be more accurate.
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P.S. I apologise in advance for any errors I didnât catch
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of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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31:not a forum
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