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massacres would incur enormous moral liability; tarnish the self-styled claim to national innocence, benevolence and self-reputation of the
Turkish state and the Turkish people; and blemish the course of Turkish history. Apparently, this would also be tantamount to casting doubt on the credibility of the foundational axioms of Kemalism and the Turkish nation-state." This is already quoted in the footnotes, so I'm not sure why you think there is OR. Please feel free to propose a different word choice if you think there is another word that summarizes the sources better. (
1576:" While there is a citation at the end of that sentence, none of it discusses a founding "myth", and it would seem strange to use that term here in this type of context. False information, "foundational crime", "genocide denial" and similar concepts have a relation to the concept of a "founding myth", but they are not the same, and I am not able to find any sources that talk about genocide denial as part of the "founding myth" of Turkey or even explaining what that would mean. There are some sources that use the phrase in relation to old myths, such as
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1593:. I also was not able to find the use of the phrase "founding myth" in the sources cited for those edits. I think it would be appropriate for Buidhe to revert their change until consensus is reached on the talk page, as per the additional Arbirtation Committee rules for editing the page, especially since its content the was added directly by them in the past. In any case, there needs to be support for the actual term "founding myth", or else this seems to be
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However, I am not seeing where the support for the use of the phrase "founding myth" comes from, or how that sentence adds anything useful to the preceding sentence, especially since it is not discussed or even used anywhere else in the article (which is also a problem because everything in the lead
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I'm convinced that the meaning of the addition is supported by the article and the cited sources. For example see Gürpınar 2013, p. 420. "...the official narrative on the
Armenian massacres constituted one of the principal pillars of the regime of truth of the Turkish state. Culpability for these
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I think the material better summarized in the preceding sentence, but honestly this is not a big deal, and you wrote so much of the article and improved it a lot. I don't object to the content anymore, and I apologize for wasting your time. Thanks for the work you have done. –
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That was the reason for my edit - though I am happy to admit that I don't have detailed knowledge either of the genocide, nor its denial, nor the sources. It simply seemed a clearer summary of the 6 sources and I'm not wholly persuaded that I was wrong.
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in the 2nd paragraph of 'denialism in academia' a sentence includes '...none of the original signitories besides Justin
Mcarthy...'. would that read better if 'besides' were replaced with 'except'?
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is supposed to be repeated in the main body of the article as well). Indeed, Buidhe was actually the one to insert the phrase into the lead in
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There are numerous sources for
Azerbaijan's denial of the genocide in this article (look in the "International relations" paragraph).
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One of the most important reasons for this denial is that the genocide enabled the establishment of a
Turkish nation-state.
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I deleted that part because that's obviously not true, but that was reverted and I was told to start a discussion.
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There's no source for
Azerbaijan, you're welcome to find one if it has actually denied it for a century?
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1841:"Besides" is grammatically correct, but I'll let others weigh in on whether "except" reads better. —
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as key enabling events. Only one of the 6 says that the 'key event status' is a primary
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ie a largely ethnically based state. They pretty consistently describe the genocide
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I said they haven't denied it for a whole century, not that they never denied it.
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In short, there are certain topics and fringe viewpoints we should not be giving
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What is with Pakistan? It is not mentioned at all; meanwhile the sister article
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It is the state that spends the most time and effort denying genocide. (
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1264:World War I
148:free images
31:not a forum
1910:Categories
1721:talk to me
1453:(WP:GEVAL)
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732:discussion
407:column on
360:Copyedited
268:identified
1811:'besides'
1578:Ergenekon
1437:(WP:PSCI)
1427:(WP:NPOV)
534:Armenians
468:is rated
397:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1896:kashmīrī
1831:contribs
1819:unsigned
1541:Pincrete
1482:to. See
1466:(WP:RGW)
470:FA-class
379:Promoted
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1703:state.
1260:Ottoman
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853:on the
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679:on the
570:on the
543:Armenia
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499:Armenia
399:in the
319:Process
219:90Â days
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1684:buidhe
1625:buidhe
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652:Turkey
639:Turkey
595:Turkey
476:scale.
341:Listed
322:Result
126:Google
1694:: -->
1595:WP:OR
1114:Death
1105:Death
1077:Death
457:This
261:is a
191:Index
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1827:talk
1801:talk
1775:talk
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1738:talk
1711:VNIO
1707:lol1
1701:only
1663:talk
1641:talk
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1597:. –
1561:and
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671:High
641:and
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316:Date
162:FENS
136:news
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