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sources at all, or no third party sources and some of these articles have been on wikipedia for 3 or 5 years and it was time something had to be done about them, most of them had been created by a user called M Alan Kazlev who owns a well known new age website (he appears to be a
Theosophist himself) and if you check the edit histories of these articles it appears a large number of IPs (who obviously are connected to the Theosophical Society, Adyar) are copying and pasting many lines from Leadbeater or Bailey books. Many of these articles were not notable outside of Theosophy and contained hardly any sources at all, infact I spent some time looking and could not see any nontheosophical references. Theosophy has some very far out ideas and there is no reliable third party sources for some its claims relating to things like Kuthumi or Serapis Bey etc. Most of these articles quote from a single book from Charles Leadbeater or Elizabeth Clare Prophet. Even for occultism some of these concepts are very unknown and there doesnt need to be a wikipedia article for every Theosophy belief or claim. The majority of claims by the Theosophists have all been merged to the Ascended Master article.
889:
consensus-determines-are-far-out-ideas noticeboard. Sure, some of that article is written badly and with a COI but that's no reason to delete all of it. Anyway, I'm just going to go back to my original point - I typed "Serapis Bey" into the search box. I'd seen the name in a few places and wanted to know who or what he was. I was redirected to this article. This article told me nothing. I used my find function and the only mention of "Serapis Bey" was the small text in the top prefixed "redirected from". Then I found the information I was looking for, albeit not very well written, in the edit history of the redirect. Is this how you think
Knowledge (XXG) should work? -
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all who pray with me, as all are perceptive beings, as God is in all. All goodness is from God, therefore, be the voice and hear it spoken, but understand who to pray to is also one who prays with. Meditation with butterfly effect, good ripples only. Proprioception, God is within. Heaven on Earth is being realized. God has created all, therefore all is heaven. Our responsibility is to first understand where we are, and then act like it. Seek in earnest and find, as I am. Ambiguity, consider all perspectives, find the goodness in all. I am on Earth, and also in Heaven, as "On Earth, as IT IS in Heaven". I am ascended.
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1394:(as the very lives and writings of high Initiates or Masters provoke difficult, if not very hard-to-attain, changes deeply within ordinary individuals, often thereby precipitating a period of crises upon them). One such initiate was the Russian woman Helena Blavatsky, who took great risks to travel widely, and who studied directly with Tibetan high llamas that recognized her stature — as Blavatsky was a fourth degree initiate.
1232:, which is more limited to theosophy and that is a very useful distinction, for example. A separate 'Ascended Masters' section could be another useful distinction. As would be an Alice Bailey/Benjamin Creme, and even Annie Besant/Leadbeater version. Nowhere in the work of the latter four is there any mention of the concept 'ascended masters'. I think the Ascended Masters / I Am should be very clearly separated from the others.
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deva or master which are 100yrs-500yrs-1000yrs-10,000 years consciousnesses. Some say jesus was a full 100,000 years consciousness. Every 2,000 years the sun turns a day old, it turned a day old in pisces 2000 years ago. It is turning a day old today, april 19 2011 all the natal signs were in aries
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Ascension is understanding that to be at all is to be of God. Understand first what is. GOD. In everything. Every thought and every word is a prayer, pray goodness and goodness only. Life is one continuous prayer. Hear only goodness, see only goodness, speak only goodness. Love is to be. I pray with
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Next time you can't find some obscure information on
Knowledge (XXG): TRY THE REST OF THE INTERNET. Also, user GreenUniverse updated this article here with some information on Serapis Bey. I think it's sufficient. Instead of complaining that you can't find things here, you might want to propose some
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It is an esoteric principle that "the lower cannot see (i.e., recognize) the higher". Therefore, what one commonly observes emanating from those who are disturbed by — yet stimulated by — the higher frequencies of the
Initiates or Masters, is: ridicule; condemnation; and even, in some cases, murder
852:
Filelakeshoe about a month ago there was a large discussion about
Theosophical articles on the Fringe theories/Noticeboard. If I can remember correctly some of the members there and even some admins were willing to AfD a large number of these Theosophical articles becuase most of them either had no
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redirect here too with no mention in the article. If someone types X into the search box they want information on X, not the general topic to which X belongs. I can't even find a deletion discussion which gained consensus for all these articles like
Kuthumi, Serapis Bey, Master Hilarion etc. being
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As ever with articles of this topic, someone with a personal agenda against the general topic has obviously crusaded for removing a load of information and "compressing" it into one article, and since their only agenda is censoring information they don't like rather than building an encyclopedia,
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This guy has his point. If the page mentions a specific name or individual whether real or fictional, the character should be elaborated upon at least enough to provide further linking to another page or sources they can research. Remember to be objective and look at things from the point of the
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I did that while looking for evidence of an AfD. There isn't, there's just someone redirecting all the articles saying the topic is covered here and that there are no third party sources available. Both, imo, are false, though I understand the way of thinking employed because I've seen it around
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You or anyone else contributing in this effort: please attempt to clearly separate the different views of 'masters', instead of the current form as 'one truth'. These views very often do not agree with each other at all, but they are now portrayed as if that is the case. There is a separate
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I'm not going to go into a rant about how ridiculous the double standards about what constitutes "reliable sources" are (how many articles on saints have 3rd party sources written by non-christians?) because this has probably already been exhausted on the censorship-of-what-random-
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Thank you. I am an award-winning writer and a student of
Eastern and Western religion. The previous rendition of this article was off-putting and indecipherable. I am working hard to liberate the major ideas from under the rubble of unnecessary words!
1349:, where a series of related articles appear per general agreement to have been subject to systemic WP:OR based on a misunderstanding as to the policies and purpose of Knowledge (XXG), I think it unlikely that any such consensus would be found.
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I've restored Big Money
Threepwood's reversion. That wasn't a great version in itself but at least it's not the horrendous policy failure of RoL's version. And by the way, if RofL's version had "consensus" it was
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I support nuking RayofLightning's edits and reverting
Skyerise's revert. RofL has re-written the article based on their interpretation of primary sources. They don't seem to understand
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Hey! I'm currently doing an overhaul of the entire ascended masters article, mostly fixing tone, removing redundancies and taking the wheat from the chaff. If anyone's interested,
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can't exist, really, it even seems to have "third party sources" (under the ridiculous definition of "sources written by non-theosophists") on it. -
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Yes, I've marked my main point in bold to make it easier for you. Undoubtedly there are other censored articles which uselessly redirect here too. -
1386:. There are multiple appalling examples of this, but the "Skeptical views" is particularly egregious. It now begins with this utterly unacceptable
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Then go to those redirects, find the last diff and read the edit summary. To speak of some sort of "censorship" is entirely irrational. —
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BRENDAN, J.F. (2000) 'THE THEOSOPHICAL MASTERS: An
Investigation into the Conceptual Domains of, H. P. Blavatsky and C. W. Leadbeater'
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https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/handle/2123/7147/THE%20THEOSOPHICAL%20MASTERS%20_VOLUME%202.PDF?sequence=2&isAllowed=y
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https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/handle/2123/7147/THE%20THEOSOPHICAL%20MASTERS%20_VOLUME%201.PDF?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
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highest good. Sure this page and works could be better organized and part of that organization of knowledge is where it came from.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
480:-related subjects on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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How to Make the Ascension is a very good question in this theme. But that would involve some research and order.
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There is not an agenda to remove Theosophy from wikipedia only material which does not have reliable references.
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This article appears to depend predominantly on the views of prominent theosophists themselves (
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I didn't know about said consensus at the time of my edits, and I am still not sure it exists.
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I know I'm banging my head against a brick wall, but change your attitude and sort this out. -
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redirected. If they had been merged properly I wouldn't care, but they haven't. -
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This doctorate thesis could be a secondary source for some aspects:
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Wouldnt one have to go through ascension via elemental kingdom: -->
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Anyone affiliated with any of these topics is not a reliable source
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Did you have a point to make or did you just come here to rant? —
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I concur with going back to Big Money Threepwood's version.
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Just a note to say your draft looks great. Big improvement!
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I got redirected here while looking for information on
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it is disputed or reverted" which has now happened.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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1085:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
677:This page has archives. Sections older than
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1475:Start-Class New religious movements articles
1276:article, where they belong instead of here.
1159:as above, trim superfluous technical stuff.
1138:with ruthless gutting of extensive quotes.
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1076:The following discussion is closed.
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468:This article is within the scope of
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1264:I see, there was a merger between
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420:New religious movements work group
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1007:non-initiate or human kingdm: -->
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50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
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1191:The discussion above is closed.
807:Knowledge (XXG) enough already.
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1274:Masters of the Ancient Wisdom
1230:Masters of the Ancient Wisdom
1103:07:47, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
573:and see a list of open tasks.
484:and see a list of open tasks.
417:This article is supported by
378:Template:WikiProject Religion
42:Put new text under old text.
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1266:Ascended Master Teachings
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1206:my sandbox is right here
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911:constructive changes. —
773:Lady Master Sachita Kaur
471:WikiProject Spirituality
365:standards, or visit the
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302:New religious movements
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1005:vegetable kingdom: -->
684:Lowercase sigmabot III
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19:This is the
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1343:at WP:ANI,
1036:RoyceBBrown
987:WP:NOTFORUM
703:Serapis Bey
268:Start-class
242:its history
148:free images
31:not a forum
1459:Categories
1438:XOR'easter
1380:WP:PRIMARY
1332:revert by
1294:Njsamizdat
1122:GPinkerton
1095:GPinkerton
955:WP:PRIMARY
1329:Per this
1161:Acousmana
769:Lord Ling
651:Archive 2
646:Archive 1
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1141:Schazjmd
1015:unsigned
634:Archives
372:Religion
350:Religion
297:Religion
218:deletion
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1424:DeCausa
1401:DeCausa
1399:WTF???
1247:Vol 2:
1241:Vol 1:
679:90 days
603:on the
514:on the
399:on the
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1388:WP:RGW
1147:(talk)
759:Yep -
576:Occult
567:occult
539:Occult
274:scale.
234:merged
126:Google
1420:until
1116:into
1091:merge
965:Stalk
961:Hrafn
236:into
230:merge
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1442:talk
1428:talk
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1370:talk
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1298:talk
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1268:and
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714:lake
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694:Mess
361:and
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246:here
162:FENS
136:news
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