Talk:Bodhrán - Knowledge (XXG)

883:"The earliest extant use of the word bodhrán (v. Dictionary of the Irish Language) comes from an Early Modern Irish (ca. 17th century) translation of a medical manual entitled Rosa Anglica (Irish Texts Society, vol.25). There the word is found glossed as "tabur (i.e. tabor), timpan (i.e. drum)". We have no idea, however, whether it referred to a particular type of drum, or if it did, what sort of drum. The tabor was a particular type of drum in certain times and places. The Irish word timpan does not describe a particular drum; it can even refer to a type of stringed instrument.) Nor do we have any particularly Irish evidence for styles of performance. Frame drums with a bodhrán-type shape appear in continental representations from the 15th century onward, but no one has produced an example showing the double-ended-stick style which defines modern bodhrán technique. " 1846:

resting the whole fanciful ancient history of the bodhran upon. Pictorially (as explained above) I think it is quite clear that this is a tambourine. It fits in with the period, tambourines are mentioned in many sources, both written and pictured. What is the liklihood of it being an instrument that was not used in Irish traditional music until the 1950's? Even those who claim an older origin to the bodhran than the 1950's concede that it was not used in traditional music. So, again, even if you contend that the painting is not clear, what is the probability that it was a bodhran? Nil.

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1700's this would give an origin of the word somewhere before this time. However it could have been refering to some other object before that, i know that a crowdy crawn was also used as a draw and grain measure and then emptied out if anyone wanted to play. Hence the phrase is also used to mean 'misculanious'. Don't know if this is any help.will look it up when i get home ina few weeks.

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media sources (reviews, books, essays), and 3) whoi can be mentioned as having an influence on the Irish Traditional or Celtic Music scene. The list, and the page, is not served IMHO by having as many bodhran-playing yahoos listed as we can fit on the web. Got a contention to this, PLEASE ADD YOUR VOICE HERE.

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dedicated site (now an integral part of the Bodojo project Paul Marshall and I are now responsible for). The Bodhrán is my main instrument, as a percussionist and not a melodic instrumentalist, so it's nice to have a mention in these kinds of places for the work I've done for the community at large to date.--

1845:

What are you disagreeing with? The fact that this is a tambourine? You might say it's not clear and that it might be a bodhran ... but here is the question. There is *no* depiction of a bodhran in any picture or painting from this period. This is the only one that some people are claiming, and then

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It's a shame to see it stripped back. I only just added my name and site the other week - mainly because I'm responsible for the growth of the online community relating to the Bodhrán (Bodhránii and now the Bodojo.com Forums) as well as developing the idea for reviews and other editorial content on a

972:

The Bodhran is a celtic frame drum ranging in anywhere from 10" to 26" in diameter, the most common being in the 14" to 18" range. 3 1/2" to 8" deep, a goat skin head (others such as kangaroo, and synthetics are used as well) is tacked to one side. The other side is open ended for the left hand to be

1375:

is correct and spoke very diplomatically as well. Regarding this thread in general, while it may be of benefit to be a little more discerning as to whom is included on the list, I am thankful at least that some person didn’t bitch about my removal of supposedly notable persons who could not even be

951:

The bodhran is an Irish frame drum ranging anywhere from 10" to 26" in diameter, with most drums measuring from 14" to 18". The sides of the drum are 3 1/2" to 8" deep. A goat skin head is tacked to one side (although today, synthetic heads, or new materials like kangaroo skin, are sometimes used).

1308:

It was not primarily to promote myself, not at all, but it was an attempt to ensure WP readers understand how far the instrument has come in the last 100 years and who is responsible for making it more of a mainstream instrument these days. This is currently missing from the WP page on the Bodhrán

1152:

section other than just "anyone who can be linked to." I suggest we list "notable players" 1) for whom the bodhran is their primary instrument (not whistle players, accordian players, bagpipe players, who happen to tote along a drum, too), 2) who are recorded or written up in third party, reliable

721:

Could somone put a page for crowdy crawn linked from the mentioning here... I could fill it out then with some info rather than putting a mini article in this one (theres a fair few nice stories about 'crowdy crawn') , ie if you search the internet you won't actually get any relevent sites because

1724:

Is it worth considering a short section about the image the instrument has within trad music circles. The old image of a session with one fiddle player and six bodhrans spawned many jokes which are part of the bodhran culture, including the damned 'penknife' comment which every clown in the pub

917:

Coming from a cornish music background... The word 'crowdy crawn' which describes essentially the same instrument as a bodhran is a dialect mutation of a cornish language name. (I don't actually know what the original words were), and as the cornish language had effectively died out by the late

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Some people seem to feel insecure with this history and wish to invent ancient roots to the bodhran (eg. the war drum myth). This tendency for romantic invention comes up in many other places (just see all the urban myths and beliefs about Morris dancing). I play the melodeon (a type of button

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accordion) which has a well known history over the last 150 years approx. It doesn't go back into the mists of time and I don't need to imagine a history to justify my playing of one. Many bodhran players understand and are happy with the truth, many prefer whimsical imagination instead.

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The list of "notable players include" is getting out of hand. I'd like to limit it to, oh, 20 of the most notable, but I'm sure someone's toes will be scrunched by removing a fav. Problem is, some notable players (Ringo McDonagh, for one) don't have articles

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modern bodhráns are usually tuneable. there are different tuning systems and the amount of tuning mechanisms is somewhere between 4-12 in a normal tuneable drum. however there are also some bodhranmaker that put even more mechanisms into their drum

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The writer was obviously trying to undermine the Irish drum and it’s origin and clearly had this agenda. Which often happens when the word Celtic and Scottish start replacing word Irish. The drum is Irish and not war drum but used in celebration.

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is strongly discouraged. I'm presuming that your intentions were other than self-promotion, but the list loses credibility if we let players list themselves. Better to let an unbiased third party write about you on WP. The usual requirements of

722:'crowdy crawn' is also used in dialect to mean something like 'micallanious', the reason being that people used their crowdy crawns like a drawer to store misc stuff in... etc. I don't want to stick all this on the bodhran page. cheers (NM) 981:

I'm afraid I don't know how you'd check which is the chicken and which the egg, but I think it's fairly unlikely that the original Knowledge (XXG) version was directly lifted from anywhere (it's rather garbled) and that some form of

1230:) mandates that long lists are not what WP is for. Granted there could be 120 notable players that a congress of us old-timers could nominate without complaint, but we still ought not to list 120 players. WP is not an almanac. 1491:

I'm surprised Sean O'Riada isn't highlighted in this article. I was under the impression he was very influential in bringing the bodhran to some kind of prominence in ensembles, replacing the drum kit of ceilidh dance bands.

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The bodhran is a modern invention, ie. from the 1950's and involving Seán Ó Riada. When played well it is a fine instrument and has found it's place in Irish traditional music in the same way that, for instance, the guitar

1868:

This picture is of a traditional Polish band. The drum on the right is like a cross between a bodhran and a tambourine. It is a single-sided drum, with jingles, played with a single tipper and the heel of the hand.

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Sadly it's not much evidence of anything really. I could invent a new instrument and call it a "madrigal". Just because that word or something similar can be found in old texts does not establish anything about my

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famous bodhranmakers where these tunable drums can be seen are e.g christian hedwitschak (www.bodhranmaker.de) from germany ; seamus o'kane and darius bartlett - both from ireland ; norbert eckermann from austria

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I read the comments when removing the name (privacy concern), and see that Vincent restored the image, but wanted his name there, or didn't want his likeness displayed at all. I think that's fair, and the

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Peter Kennedy observed a similar instrument in Dorset and Wiltshire in the 1950s, where it was known as the "riddle drum", suggesting this instrument may have crossed over from Ireland to England, or vice

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I'm puzzled that Christy Moore doesn't receive more (moore) attention due to him being one of the most notable players who doesn't use a tipper and who uses the instrument for solo accompaniment. (

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It's a tambourine being played with a drum mallet. Why you think a Polish person playing a tambourine with a drum mallet has anything to do with a discussion on bodhrans is beyond me.

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I'm going to remoe the players section - it adds nothing to the article. Could you imagine the article on guitars including all the guitar players? what's the point? Thanks,

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It's quite clear if you examine the painting that it is a tamourine. You can see the tambourine jingles and it is being held in the manner of a tambourine not a Bodhran.

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was resolved when he restored his name by direct editing action. The photo was removed again, asserting that it's "advertising". I don't think it's advertising (as per

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A good player of any style accompanies and enhances the tune, rather than uses the tune as an opportunity to show off or go through their repertoire of techniques.

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I hear someone saying), and some obscure players have article links, so that's not a good rule of thumb. I'm open to votes from previous editors of this page for

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I've seen this painting (Snap-Apple Night) used in a couple of places (including at the moment here) along with the claim that is is a depiction of a Bodhran.

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page says "Bough-Rawn" - here Bough could rhyme with any of rough, cough, though, through etc - hopeless. And "Rawn" rhymes with dawn not darn. CONFUSED! --

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Although most common in Ireland, the bodhrán has gained popularity throughout the Celtic music world, especially in Scotland, Cape Breton, and Newfoundland.

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One often hears about the bodhran that before the Chieftains the instrument was used primarily in only one county of Ireland. Which county was that?

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Pronuciation. This page says "bow-rahn", but bow can rhyme with "go" and with "how", so this is no help. I reckon "Rahn" rhymes with "darn". The

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This section does not seem to make any sense. There is no evidence that it was a war drum but this is what leads people to believe ti was?

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I seriously doubt that. Check the history. The Paddy Maloney Show did not find the drum as an obscure regional oddity and make it popular.

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placed against the inside of the drum head to control the pitch. The drum is played with a lathed piece of wood called a tipper or beater.

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Basically, the Comhaltas article seems to be wishful thinking and the claim ought to be removed from the Knowledge (XXG) article.

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at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be

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This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of July 15, 2007, compares against the

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This sort of thing is pretty small fare for the bodhran (as in the modern musical instrument) myth to feed upon.

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The other side is open ended for one hand to be placed against the inside of the drum head to control the pitch.

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The bodhrán was used during the Irish rebellion of 1603, by the Irish forces, as a war drum, or battle drum

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and there's no mention of it's evolution and the modern design techniques and playing styles used today.--

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