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In what way is it logical? An organisation doesn't cease to exist because of a name change. I'm really not sure how you can argue that "it was the same entity before and after becoming officially a separate party", but that it became a separate entity after a name change. It doesn't feel like you're
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I don't know who put in the word "utopian", the choice words was questionable, but they weren't trying to say Lenin was a utopian socialist. Lenin did have a "utopian" vision of society (the "workers' paradise"), but this is completely different from saying he was a utopian socialist. But again the
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If I were to redo this article, I would make it so it only covers the history of the original
Bolshevik faction. Otherwise, there's an argument to be made that it should cover the entire history of the CPSU until it's dissolution in 1991. The only time there was a clear organisational split was in
1424:
In "Demographics" the following display appears incorrect to me: "By 1905, 62% of the members were industrial workers (...) Twenty-two percent of
Bolsheviks were gentry (...) and 38% were uprooted peasants" - which adds up to 122%. A little too much, I think. Unless these are not disctinct groups,
1531:
This article is currently somewhat of a mess. It doesn't know whether it's about the original
Bolshevik faction of the RSDLP, the history of the pre-Revolution Bolsheviks up until 1918, or the entire history of the use of the Bolshevik name until the party was renamed the CPSU in 1952.
1265:. I'm reasonably sure you would be able to achieve a consensus for that change. Lenin did have a utopian vision of a society, which is completely different from saying he was a utopian socialist. Making the change would help keep people from confusing means and end.
1223:
Marxism is called "Scientific
Socialism", whether you agree that its scientific or not, that term is used to distinguish it from the utopian socialism of robert owen and other pre-marxist socialists. I'm not sure why I even need consensus here but what the hell.
1580:
So then where should the scope of this article end? If the
Bolsheviks were the same entity before and after becoming a separate party, then they were also the same entity up until the dissolution of their party in 1991. A line has to be drawn somewhere.
1536:
1912. You can't end the article in 1918 because the party didn't cease to exist upon forming government. You can't end the article in 1952 because a simple name change doesn't mean the party underwent some sort of complete transformation. You
1404:
I moved the section on derogatory use to the end of the article. The subsection on other parties who used the term "Bolshevik" was previously at the end, but that's not derogatory, and it was a subsection under derogatory use.
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Um, the part about Lenin being narrow-minded...that is not true. Even his political opponents recognized that he fully believed in his cause and that
Communism really would make Russia a better place.
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procedure applies to this article. This article is related to
Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
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It could be that there is considerable overlap among those classed as "industrial workers" and "uprooted peasants", whose uprootedness may have led to their becoming industrial workers.
1618:
engaging with the actual substance of my argument, to be completely honest. I addressed all of these points in my original paragraph and you aren't providing any further explanation.
1547:, up until it formed it's own party. That's when there was a clear transformation in the group's organisational structure; enough of a transformation to warrant separate articles.
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1384:, makes a distinction between Lenin's view at this time and how his ideas developed after that. I aim to dig out some material on this to work towards a more suitable approach.
1288:'Utopian' has a specific meaning for Marxists, and Lenin would have objected. And saw the immediate aim of Socialism as realisable. Communism to come later by stages. --
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Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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I understand what you're saying. My objection was to removing an entire paragraph and reference over a word/phrase. I suggested a change above.
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I'd have ended it with the adoption of the name
Communist. But where it does end is entirely logical. --
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may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the
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I made some changes to make the text less wordy, but I don't think I changed the meaning substantially.
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If you're objection is to the use of the word "utopian" you should suggest changing the phrase from
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article. And it was the same entity before and after becoming officially a separate party.--
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end the article in 1991, but then it would look almost identical to the CPSU article.
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Difference between meaning of the whole information here in different languages.
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I find the passage quite unsettling largely because it is more reflective of
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It only makes sense for this article to cover the history of the Bolshevik
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when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
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Heres Friedrich Engles's piece on this, written over a hundred years ago
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https://www.jstor.org/stable/130152?seq=7#metadata_info_tab_contents
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Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
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You can use your own translator and you’ll understand the problem.
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https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm
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This post was made by me before I registered for the page.
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but multiple affiliations possible. Who can help/correct?
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made resolves this nicely. Hope all is well with you.
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