879:***At that time, Hồ Chí Minh (the leader of the Vietnamese Communist Party was using the pen-name Nguyễn Tất Thành and Nguyễn Ái Quốc.*** After Hồ Học Lãm died in 1942, Nguyễn Tất Thành started using the name "Hồ Chí Minh" (he was also a member of the Viet Minh coalition - he slowly "infiltrated" and gained power from within.). In 1941, Nguyễn Tất Thành created an organization called "Việt Nam Độc lập Đồng minh" (without the word "Hội" at the end) and then also used the term "Viet Minh" - in this process, his action eclipsed the original organization created by Hồ Học Lãm; in an essence, Nguyễn Tất Thành took over and eliminated the original organization created by Hồ Học Lãm - all of this lead to a lot of confusion and mis-information which mislead a lot of people into following his movement, many of whom are well educated and came from rich family (people still think it's a "nationalist movement for independent"; however, it's an organization that's part of a bigger Communist Party/Movement) - Personally, I have 5-7 great-uncles (my father's uncles) who had "Đi Tập Kết" (ie: jointing the movement that was called by the Viet Minh to fight the "imperialists", which lasted until 1954).
762:
city" all the time, instead of just "Philadelphia". As to the Viet Minh issue, at the time, in 1962, the NLF did not exist. In fact it started largely as a side effect of Ap Bac. Prior to that point in time the North had essentially washed their hands of the south in order to avoid inciting the US. When it became clear the US was going to get involved anyway, the success of Ap Bac convinced them the formation and support of a new revolutionary front would not be a bad thing. In fact the article does not mention this and should. Long story short, this force was referred to by everyone involved as "Viet Mihn", and the article should reflect that.
637:
616:
508:
492:
524:
580:
416:
540:
190:
295:
1095:
356:
647:
430:
387:
872:, the term "Viet Minh" was originally used to refer to all Vietnamese "nationalist" who join forces to fight for Vietnam's independent (initially fighting the French, and then the Japanese in WWII). That combined forces included Vietnamese Communist Party and various Vietnamese Nationalist Parties .
771:
Vietnamese and
English language are different,we call it Ap Bac all the time although Ap actually means hamlet (as in the case of Dawson Creek, you would not call it Dawson alone, if you refer to a local "the hamlet named Bac", he or she wouldn't know where is it, seriously it's just your assumption
882:
Some of you reading this will think that I am "pro-nationalist" or else; however, I have family members fought on both side of the war since 1930s - I also went through schooling in Viet Nam after 1975. I am just presenting information on both side of the same subject with the objective is to give
743:
The term "Ap Bac" is also used by
Vietnamese sources too, using "Bac" only doesn't sound right. So I believe the article should stay that way. As for "Viet Cong", it was the military wing of the National Liberation Front known as the "People's Liberation Armed Forces" or PLAF. If you want accuracy
761:
Are you saying that
Vietnamese sources like maps say this? Or Vietnamese sources on the battle itself. I agree that the Battle should contain the word "Ap", just as another famous battle contains "Il". However, neither of these words would be used in context. It would be like saying "Philadelphia
824:
Which is exactly why I object to changing Viet Cong to NLF. Most people know who "Viet Cong" refers to (not to mention that all other
Vietnam War-related articles use that term). We shouldn't change things for the sake of political correctness, if it means increasing the difficulty of finding
845:, it had become a common term used in all media. However, if you want to be picky about it then you can use "ap Bac" because like others said, "ap" is hamlet, which is a common term and don't need to capitalize. Either way, using "ap Bac" or "Ap Bac" make more sense than say "hamlet Bac". --
966:
Good question! Every source I've seen (two) states "M-1", which suggests the "full" one. This would make sense given the fact that these weapons would be much more widely available. On the other hand, the
Carbine would be more appropriate to the combat in question. All in all my
906:." To my knowledge, the Viet Cong DID NOT have helicopters and airbone troops (even to the end of the Viet Nam War, I never heard of). I am questioning the accuracy and credibility of this article and the writer. Please justify your information! Regard! --
531:
405:
515:
401:
547:
409:
1049:
The opening paragraph has a link that looks like it goes to an article about the eponymous hamlet. But that link takes us right back to this article. Is there an article about the hamlet? If so, what is the article called, so we can link to it?
499:
397:
730:
More controversial is my suggestion that "Viet Cong" be replaced by "Viet Mihn" or NLF. "Viet Cong" was another US invention that no one else used. At this particular point in time, 1962, not even the government used this term.
875:
The term "Viet Minh" was originated/abbreviated from "Việt Nam Độc Lập Đồng Minh Hội", which was created in 1936 by Hồ Học Lãm with a pen-name "Hồ Chí Minh" in Canton, China, with the help of
Kuomintang (KMT), led by Chiang
984:
Usually, referring to "M-1" means the Garand, "M-1 carbine" being the carbine. But both weapons were used early in the
Vietnam conflict, as well as the Garand variant the M-14. So I guess I don't have a solid answer. -
589:
278:
153:
814:
The question isn't just 'which is correct'. It's also the question of what people will use in order to look it up in
Knowledge (XXG). I reckon that the current title is the one that would be most often used.
789:
I'm talking about
Vietnamese sources on the battle;)I parttially agree with what you've said, that should and must be mentioned. By the way, the Communist group group is spelled "Viet Minh" not Viet Mihn".
1200:
1215:
1190:
594:
1210:
1195:
1185:
727:
is rightly referred to as "Ap Bac", as the name is US in origin, the name of the town/village/hamlet itself is simply "Bac". "Ap" got added in US reports in error due to language confusion.
1205:
442:
1180:
902:
This section: "The
Vietcong suffered 18 killed and 39 wounded. Though most later withdrew from the hamlet during the night, they had turned back a larger force equipped with
147:
1175:
1111:
is not included among the reference books, given the key role that John Paul Vann played in this battle. Unfortunately I gave away my copy of the book some years ago.
1035:
I don't know about you all, but I think this is one heck of an article. Would anyone else be willing to pitch in to respond to upgrades needed to bring it to GA?
666:, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the
79:
1170:
701:
942:
1225:
691:
437:
392:
44:
85:
1230:
219:
446:
1137:
30:
1160:
307:
1220:
207:
201:
99:
104:
20:
954:
842:
333:
329:
1130:
This article is incomplete without the inclusion of Neil Sheehan's account of the Battle from his work "A Bright Shining Lie".
667:
661:
621:
74:
325:
321:
317:
313:
168:
367:
1165:
1082:
135:
65:
1002:
My dad was trained with the M-1 (ie: Garand cabin) in the Vietnam War; therefore, I believed "cabin" is more acurate. --
869:
1069:
A picture for you, if you'd like to use it: the gate at the entrance of the roadway leading to the battle site. --
1007:
911:
888:
850:
129:
109:
259:
636:
615:
1141:
373:
1003:
907:
884:
846:
125:
441:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
1133:
745:
507:
55:
1055:
189:
175:
804:
70:
294:
1108:
1036:
972:
950:
763:
734:
1145:
211:
1116:
161:
1077:
925:
807:
773:
737:
141:
51:
1051:
491:
24:
946:
579:
523:
1112:
986:
892:
826:
652:
1154:
1071:
921:
816:
1094:
1039:
790:
749:
539:
642:
883:
credit to the right people (that's my definition of history). Best Regard! --
301:
803:
Ap Bac is right ( ap is hamlet ,Bac is the name of the hamlet ) Tan Nguyen.
1120:
1086:
1059:
1011:
989:
975:
958:
929:
915:
854:
829:
819:
793:
776:
766:
752:
744:
then using PLAF is the way to go, Viet Minh is actually the regular
429:
386:
415:
349:
15:
578:
538:
522:
506:
490:
300:
Facts from this article were featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
271:
252:
160:
1201:
Southeast Asian military history task force articles
1216:
Failed requests for military history A-Class review
1191:
North American military history task force articles
920:
That refers to the US-backed forces, who had all 3.
561:
473:
174:
1211:United States military history task force articles
1196:GA-Class Southeast Asian military history articles
1186:GA-Class North American military history articles
1206:GA-Class United States military history articles
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
217:If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
8:
455:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history
532:Southeast Asian military history task force
1181:Asian military history task force articles
1131:
610:
558:
516:North American military history task force
470:
381:
231:
184:
548:United States military history task force
1176:GA-Class Asian military history articles
865:The word "Viet Minh" and it's background
825:articles through the search function. -
435:This article is within the scope of the
1125:
1090:
612:
383:
904:armour, helicopters and airbone troops
445:. To use this banner, please see the
458:Template:WikiProject Military history
7:
718:
355:
353:
676:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Vietnam
372:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
1171:GA-Class military history articles
14:
1126:Sheehan's take should be included
1045:Article about the hamlet "Ap Bac"
843:In regarding to the word "Ap Bac"
500:Asian military history task force
210:. If you can improve it further,
50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome!
1226:High-importance Vietnam articles
1093:
645:
635:
614:
428:
414:
385:
354:
293:
188:
45:Click here to start a new topic.
696:This article has been rated as
198:has been listed as one of the
1:
1231:All WikiProject Vietnam pages
1161:Knowledge (XXG) good articles
1040:20:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
930:18:59, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
42:Put new text under old text.
1146:02:03, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
1031:Any interest in GA'ing this?
808:03:28, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
794:08:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
767:14:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
753:10:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
738:22:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
679:Template:WikiProject Vietnam
438:Military history WikiProject
1060:07:22, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
1012:19:53, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
976:13:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
959:08:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
916:20:02, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
893:19:51, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
855:19:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
1247:
1121:12:57, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
1087:23:55, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
864:
777:06:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
702:project's importance scale
279:WikiProject A-class review
1221:GA-Class Vietnam articles
719:It's just Bac, not Ap Bac
695:
630:
586:
557:
546:
530:
514:
498:
469:
461:military history articles
423:
380:
340:
234:
230:
80:Be welcoming to newcomers
990:12:47, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
939:M1 rifle or M1 carbine?
830:12:44, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
820:08:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
772:so i renamed it Ap Bac.
658:This article is part of
1030:
562:Additional information:
474:Associated task forces:
583:
543:
527:
511:
495:
362:This article is rated
75:avoid personal attacks
1166:Warfare good articles
945:comment was added by
870:Regarding "Viet Minh"
746:Vietnam People's Army
582:
542:
526:
510:
494:
366:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
208:good article criteria
202:Warfare good articles
100:Neutral point of view
1109:A Bright Shining Lie
1103:A Bright Shining Lie
260:Good article nominee
105:No original research
1107:I'm surprised that
1018:CARBINE not 'cabin'
662:WikiProject Vietnam
1004:Trần chí Hồng-Tiên
908:Trần chí Hồng-Tiên
885:Trần chí Hồng-Tiên
847:Trần chí Hồng-Tiên
584:
544:
528:
512:
496:
443:list of open tasks
368:content assessment
272:September 12, 2011
235:Article milestones
86:dispute resolution
47:
1148:
1136:comment added by
962:
716:
715:
712:
711:
708:
707:
609:
608:
605:
604:
601:
600:
553:
552:
447:full instructions
348:
347:
288:
287:
226:
183:
182:
66:Assume good faith
43:
1238:
1097:
1085:
1080:
940:
684:
683:
682:Vietnam articles
680:
677:
674:
655:
650:
649:
648:
639:
632:
631:
626:
618:
611:
569:
559:
481:
471:
463:
462:
459:
456:
453:
452:Military history
432:
425:
424:
419:
418:
417:
412:
393:Military history
389:
382:
365:
359:
358:
357:
350:
341:Current status:
297:
274:
255:
232:
215:
196:Battle of Ap Bac
192:
185:
179:
178:
164:
95:Article policies
25:Battle of Ap Bac
16:
1246:
1245:
1241:
1240:
1239:
1237:
1236:
1235:
1151:
1150:
1128:
1105:
1098:
1081:
1076:
1067:
1047:
1033:
941:—The preceding
937:
900:
867:
721:
698:High-importance
681:
678:
675:
672:
671:
651:
646:
644:
625:High‑importance
624:
567:
479:
460:
457:
454:
451:
450:
413:
395:
363:
334:January 2, 2023
330:January 2, 2022
326:January 2, 2017
322:January 2, 2016
318:January 2, 2014
314:January 2, 2013
270:
251:
121:
116:
115:
114:
91:
61:
12:
11:
5:
1244:
1242:
1234:
1233:
1228:
1223:
1218:
1213:
1208:
1203:
1198:
1193:
1188:
1183:
1178:
1173:
1168:
1163:
1153:
1152:
1138:173.166.96.146
1127:
1124:
1104:
1101:
1100:
1099:
1092:
1066:
1063:
1046:
1043:
1032:
1029:
1028:
1027:
1026:
1025:
1024:
1023:
1022:
1021:
1020:
1019:
995:
994:
993:
992:
979:
978:
936:
933:
899:
896:
866:
863:
862:
861:
860:
859:
858:
857:
835:
834:
833:
832:
801:
800:
799:
798:
797:
796:
782:
781:
780:
779:
769:
756:
755:
720:
717:
714:
713:
710:
709:
706:
705:
694:
688:
687:
685:
657:
656:
653:Vietnam portal
640:
628:
627:
619:
607:
606:
603:
602:
599:
598:
595:A-Class review
585:
575:
574:
572:
570:
564:
563:
555:
554:
551:
550:
545:
535:
534:
529:
519:
518:
513:
503:
502:
497:
487:
486:
484:
482:
476:
475:
467:
466:
464:
433:
421:
420:
406:Southeast Asia
390:
378:
377:
371:
360:
346:
345:
338:
337:
308:On this day...
298:
290:
289:
286:
285:
282:
275:
267:
266:
263:
256:
253:March 21, 2011
248:
247:
244:
241:
237:
236:
228:
227:
193:
181:
180:
118:
117:
113:
112:
107:
102:
93:
92:
90:
89:
82:
77:
68:
62:
60:
59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1243:
1232:
1229:
1227:
1224:
1222:
1219:
1217:
1214:
1212:
1209:
1207:
1204:
1202:
1199:
1197:
1194:
1192:
1189:
1187:
1184:
1182:
1179:
1177:
1174:
1172:
1169:
1167:
1164:
1162:
1159:
1158:
1156:
1149:
1147:
1143:
1139:
1135:
1123:
1122:
1118:
1114:
1110:
1102:
1096:
1091:
1089:
1088:
1084:
1079:
1074:
1073:
1064:
1062:
1061:
1057:
1053:
1044:
1042:
1041:
1038:
1017:
1016:
1015:
1014:
1013:
1009:
1005:
1001:
1000:
999:
998:
997:
996:
991:
988:
983:
982:
981:
980:
977:
974:
970:
965:
964:
963:
960:
956:
952:
948:
944:
934:
932:
931:
927:
923:
918:
917:
913:
909:
905:
897:
895:
894:
890:
886:
880:
878:
877:
871:
856:
852:
848:
844:
841:
840:
839:
838:
837:
836:
831:
828:
823:
822:
821:
818:
813:
812:
811:
809:
806:
795:
792:
788:
787:
786:
785:
784:
783:
778:
775:
774:Saigon punkid
770:
768:
765:
760:
759:
758:
757:
754:
751:
747:
742:
741:
740:
739:
736:
732:
728:
726:
723:Although the
703:
699:
693:
690:
689:
686:
669:
665:
664:
663:
654:
643:
641:
638:
634:
633:
629:
623:
620:
617:
613:
596:
592:
591:
587:This article
581:
577:
576:
573:
571:
566:
565:
560:
556:
549:
541:
537:
536:
533:
525:
521:
520:
517:
509:
505:
504:
501:
493:
489:
488:
485:
483:
478:
477:
472:
468:
465:
448:
444:
440:
439:
434:
431:
427:
426:
422:
411:
410:United States
407:
403:
402:North America
399:
394:
391:
388:
384:
379:
375:
369:
361:
352:
351:
344:
339:
335:
331:
327:
323:
319:
315:
311:
309:
303:
299:
296:
292:
291:
283:
281:
280:
276:
273:
269:
268:
264:
262:
261:
257:
254:
250:
249:
245:
242:
239:
238:
233:
229:
224:
222:
221:
213:
209:
205:
204:
203:
197:
194:
191:
187:
186:
177:
173:
170:
167:
163:
159:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
127:
124:
123:Find sources:
120:
119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
106:
103:
101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
52:Learn to edit
49:
46:
41:
40:
37:
36:
32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
1132:— Preceding
1129:
1106:
1070:
1068:
1048:
1034:
971:is the M-1.
968:
938:
935:Which is it?
919:
903:
901:
881:
874:
873:
868:
805:69.237.185.1
802:
733:
729:
724:
722:
697:
668:project page
660:
659:
588:
436:
374:WikiProjects
343:Good article
342:
305:
284:Not approved
277:
258:
218:
216:
212:please do so
200:
199:
195:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
1052:MiguelMunoz
148:free images
31:not a forum
1155:Categories
947:Deathbunny
810:tannguyen
590:has failed
312:column on
206:under the
1113:Mztourist
987:Crockspot
898:Aftermath
876:Kai-shek.
827:Crockspot
302:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1134:unsigned
1072:dragfyre
955:contribs
943:unsigned
922:Bachcell
817:Aim Here
364:GA-class
220:reassess
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
791:Canpark
750:Canpark
700:on the
673:Vietnam
622:Vietnam
304:in the
243:Process
154:WP refs
142:scholar
725:battle
370:scale.
332:, and
265:Listed
246:Result
126:Google
1065:Photo
1037:Maury
973:Maury
969:guess
764:Maury
735:Maury
398:Asian
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1142:talk
1117:talk
1078:ʞןɐʇ
1056:talk
1008:talk
951:talk
926:talk
912:talk
889:talk
851:talk
692:High
240:Date
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
593:an
176:TWL
1157::
1144:)
1119:)
1058:)
1010:)
957:)
953:•
928:)
914:)
891:)
853:)
815:--
568:/
480:/
408:/
404:/
400:/
396::
328:,
324:,
320:,
316:,
223:it
214:.
156:)
54:;
1140:(
1115:(
1083:c
1075:_
1054:(
1050:—
1006:(
961:.
949:(
924:(
910:(
887:(
849:(
748:.
704:.
670:.
597:.
449:.
376::
336:.
310:"
306:"
225:.
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
