Talk:Bangladesh genocide/Archive 5

2672:

understood it through the events that took place. Look at all Yahya did prior to the uprising. First, he decided to hand over power to the civilians by holding the country's first free and fair elections. Then he chased after Mujib (whom he publically called the next Prime Minister of Pakistan) and Bhutto for months to try to get them to form the government. Then, once the uprising started, he told his men to show restraint and remain in their barracks over the month of March before Operation Searchlight began, even as Mujib's direct rule resulted in anarchy and the army's food and ammunition supplies were disrupted. Does this sound like a premeditative murderer of vast proportions of his own people?

1608:

the manner that the current article is trying to project. With regards to the rape, the commission challenged the figures of Bangladeshi authorities of 200,000 by citing a hundred or more termination of pregnancies (Para 34) that were carried out by the abortion teams sanctioned by the Britain, in the early 1972. With regards to the killing of intellectuals, professionals, civilian officials, businessmen and industrialists, the commission acknowledged the fact that there do existed a preemptive plan to 'arrest' not to 'kill' the the above mentioned individuals, but that plan was never executed because of the inability of the army to secure their safety such individuals (Para 24, 25, 26, 27).

2725:'s book. That's a bit odd considering her book has itself been the subject of a lot of academic criticism for all sorts of reasons like personal bias, lack of in-depth research, ignoring data that didn't fit her narrative, etc. For example, she largely ignores statements from rape victims because she feels their lack of education makes them unreliable. The list is so long that one should really be careful in citing from her "research". In particular, because of the dependence on this book, the article seems to repeatedly justify the Bengali genocide as a response to a Bihari genocide. This is quite disturbing. 2975:

have put together his book in a mere twelve weeks after publishing a call for survivor stories in February 1974 ... In his propagandistic account, Aziz ... inflates Bihari victim numbers, and makes unproven inferences about Awami League, Hindu, or Indian participation in the killings. Many of the accounts he cites claim automatic weapons' fire when Bengalis could hardly possess those, describe the culprits as "rebels" before March 25, and/or tend to date pogroms early." Is it your contention that Aziz's impression of deaths "in the vicinity of 500,000" is the academic consensus upper bound on Biharis killed?

1604:"The Hamoodur Rahman Commission set up by the Pakistani government following the war noted various atrocities committed by the Pakistani military, including widespread arson and killings in the countryside, killing of intellectuals and professionals, killing of Bengali military officers and soldiers on the pretence of mutiny, killing Bengali civilian officials, businessmen and industrialists, raping numerous Bengali women as a deliberate act of revenge, retaliation and torture, deliberate killing of members of the Bengali Hindu minority and the creation of mass graves." 3323:

excluded due to critics. Many in the range have also been criticized but thats what estimates are for and I strongly believe sarmila bose should be referred to in the estimate. I also suggest the addition of the a phrase referring to the official CIA figures in the lead to bring out the most valid figure of the range of figures cited which would be 200,000. Any one objecting to this should then also be objecting to the refer of gonimoter maal (Bengali for "public property") and other irrelevant stuff in the lead which leads to no sense of their inclusion

1625: 3123:

To be fair, Minorities at Risk's lower bound of 1,000 also falls well outside the range of academic consensus. MAR doesn't cite their sources, so it's anybody's guess how they arrived at their number. No other source says below "a few thousand", and academic consensus appears to be at least 20,000. I would have no objection if you changed the lead from "1,000 to 150,000 were killed" to "20,000 to 200,000 were killed" and added a footnote to the effect that although that's the academic consensus, outlier estimates exist of 1,000 to 1 million killed. --

811:, I couldnt find any news that says the law criminalizing propaganda regarding 1971 war has been passed. All it says is that it is likely to be passed. So, for now I have reverted the edits, they can be put back when the law actually gets through. Moreover, when it gets through and we add the info here, it would also need to added in a NPOV way so as to include the fact that this new Bangladeshi Law is infact controversial, that people have been against it and that it have been criticized.— 3143:

million deaths in the lead, which is clearly overstretched to unimaginable limits almost allows for all the independent claims to be mentioned and sourced in the lead. The 3 million Bengali death claim was clearly rejected by the then Indian high commissioner Apa Bhai Panth, who was the first person to offer an estimate to Sheikh Mujib on the Bengali casualties and terms the figures as something of a shock and associates them with misunderstanding, as written by Ian Jack.

3426:

statement. I don't think any individual primary source does estimate that the deaths are in this range, except those which are referring to the 'range of estimates provided by other sources', the truth is that many estimates cluster around 300,0000-500,000 and many use the 'official' 3 million figure with very little in between. Considering a 'table of estimates' in the Estimate of Deaths figure, but how do we identify which sources to include and exclude.

31: 2680:

people who helped bring the new nation to birth. I visited India and Bangladesh in March and April of 1972..." He did not visit Pakistan nor claims to have interviewed any one from there in the course of the two months of interviews that are the backbone of his book. Reading the book removes any doubt as to Payne's bias. It reads more as a comic book prone to hyperbole (Payne is a novelist and not a historian) than a history book.

1047:. Nor is it my view, as I've already made it plain, that the article should not "cover the violence" (there's already a way too big section about it). So please take that strawman home. This article is about the genocide perpetrated by the Pakistani Armed Forces and their collaborators against Bangladeshis. So putting in "Mukti Bahini" into the "perpetrators" in the infobox is both POV and obnoxiously offensive. 1573: 578:, according to guidelines provided in it, this paragraph had consensus, now in order to remove it, you need a new consensus. The only objection being raised is that it is not reliable and you know on which forum you should be discussing that. Fighting to death on this in not an answer. You are also removing another source in there, this one, what objection do you have about this? 2684:

within the Bangladeshi Army as Payne admits to not having interviewed in Pakistan. But other than knowing that the quote possibly came from a biased source, we cannot say much else. The entire book is without a single footnote or reference other than a sparse one-page bibliography. Without evidence to uphold his assertion one must dismiss Payne's quote.

3360: 2874:, which was on another topic of whether quoting Sarmila Bose was acceptable. My edit only transferred the already written phrase on biharis in another paragraph and further added to the range. Kindly better explain your revert and rather edit it further than reverting as i find my edit nothing of sorts to be termed in the "BOLD" category 1255:(who btw, is quoted in this Knowledge article) that: 1) "refugees from Bihar were mercilessly wiped out. Women were raped and mutilated. Children did not escape the horror..."; 2) 20,000 "bodies of non-Bengalis have been found in the main towns of Chittagong, Khulna and Jessore. The real toll may have been as high as 100,000...". 527:, you cannot just drop a line here and presume that consensus has been achieved in your favor. When it comes to deciding about reliability of the source, we cannot decide it here, its not proper forum. Moreover, the text is properly attributed so I do not see anything in keeping that text Witt proper attribution. 2271:

that what took place in Bangladesh was a genocide", he is an ideal reference for the statement. His beliefs are entirely irrelevant to the statement. We're not saying Beachler denies it was genocide. The lead already states in the previous sentence that there is academic consensus that genocide took place.

3404:, I think your edit definitely has potential. The New Yorker article is at pains to point out the 200,000 was a conservative estimate by the C.I.A. and State Department while the killing was underway. It stands to reason we should be using more recent figures, not hanging our hat on that 200,000 figure. 3009:

As for the Qutubbuddin Aziz estimates, it has the right to be included in the article as we cannot judge as to what his propagandistic account. The figures of 2 million deaths is also very propagandistic and highly over stretched to laughable range, but it still makes it in the article. If you object

2815:

I don't edit on my behalf and nor should anyone do so. I had quoted CIA figures from a leaked intelligence report which you reverted. Many researches done by institutes show even lesser casualties. Sarmila Bose even quotes of 50,000. My talk here is to edit the infobox as such, 200,000(CIA)-3,000,000

2284:

The lead is a summary of the body of the article. The body identifies specific scholars who have denied that it was genocide, namely Richard Sisson and Leo E. Rose (the source for which is again Beachler). As for their motivations, Beachler writes "Either they were unaware of the evidence pointing to

986:

This article is about the genocide perpetrated by the Pakistani Armed Forces against Bangladeshis. It is NOT about the violence against Biharis. You know this. We've been over this. Stop trying to construct this false equivalence which is not supported by sources. The violence against Biharis ALREADY

2974:

says that the first hand accounts cited by Aziz appear credible in many regards, but writes that Aziz's "own estimates, however, rather add up to about 350,000 non-Bengali deaths ... In 1971, Aziz, an experienced journalist, worked as a public relations man for the Pakistani government. He claims to

2969:

Qutubuddin Aziz wrote in 1974, "As the Chairman of an official Committee for the relief and rehabilitation of war-displaced persons from East Pakistan ..., I met many hundreds of non-Bengali repatriates ... Their evidence gave me the impression that the non-Bengali death toll in the murderous period

2675:

Strangely enough, the three million figure also conveniently coincides with exactly how many Bangladeshis are alleged to have been killed later. Hitting a target of three million would imply a level of competence that I doubt the military possessed. This is the same army that lost the war in 1971 in

2569:

I have undertaken a project to sync all the Bangladeshi articles with the academic mainstream represented by Schendel, Baxter and the like. For this, some parts of our article text require modification. So we can pull them into sync with those passages from the top sources which discuss their theme.

1133:

Who defined that this article is just about genocide committed by Pakistan Army? This article should cover all aspects of the genocide which happened in 1971 in East Pakistan and genocide against Biharis was one aspect of that conflict. Biharis are a significant population of Bangladesh and they are

1017:

Thanks for pointing this out. I have taken the liberty of going through the RfC from May, and as the closer accurately noted, that discussion certainly lacked a specific purpose. What I see mostly is a collection of strong opinions, ranging from what constitutes 'genocide' to arguments over sources.

834:

be covered here, whether it is ever passed into law or not. The article must not state that it has passed, however, unless a reliable source can be cited to that effect. Also, the first paragraph of the "Estimated killed" section may not be the best point for material about the legislation. Much has

559:

is an essay, not a policy, not even a guideline and it doesn't say what you think it says (it does not say "we must restore the status quo" as that'd be really dumb). There's obviously several editors objecting to the inclusion of this source. Which is pretty much a no-brainer as it's a non-reliable

105:

edit SheriffIsInTown added this text "Academic Christian Gerlach has argued that the majority of the deaths in the 1971 period were due to hunger and disease and not due to direct army killings." Is miksrepresented by the user Sheriffisintown, the cited source says the famine followed the 1975 coup,

3322:

An estimate defines a range of uncertain figures proposed by various individuals and is a result of uncertainty in an exact figure which could be accepted as a fixed point of reference. Estimates deserve the right of inclusion of any reputable journalist and research work and no one is deemed to be

3122:

who writes that Aziz's numbers aren't internally consistent, are inflated and unproven, and that Aziz had an axe to grind and cut corners. Of the more than a dozen academics who've written on the issue, none agree with Aziz. Most arrived at an upper bound of 150,000, and none say more than 200,000.

2659:

Hi, this published article (link below) provides some reason to doubt the authenticity and veracity of the "kill 3 million" quote from Yahya. Is it possible to add after the quote a line that says something to effect: "The reliability of this quote is, however, questioned by some." And footnote the

2270:

Thanks for expounding on your point. I'm open to a change of phrasing or context, but think you're dead wrong about Beachler not being a good reference for the statement, "However, some scholars deny it was a genocide". On the contrary, because he writes "Some scholars and other writers have denied

2217:

The lead of the article cites and quotes an article from Donald Beachler to support the claim that: "However, some scholars deny it was a genocide." Here is the complete quote from Beachler, "Some scholars and other writers have denied that what took place in Bangladesh was a genocide. Journalists’

1318:

Likewise I NEVER "claimed that the 1971 war atrocities do not include Mukti Bahini atrocities". STOP attributing views or statements to me that I never made. That's bordering really close to lying about someone. What I said is that the atrocities committed by Mukti Bahini were NOT part of the "1971

635:

Yes, it did have consensus, I went back at least 250 edits in the history and the text is there. You have edited yourself several times since then and several other editors have edited the page even neutral editors who are not party to this dispute have edited it. People who are objecting above are

150:

More misrepresentation "There is no consensus among independent researchers on number of people killed. Some put that number between 300,000-500,000, and describe the 3 million number as excessively inflated." The first source given does not say "There is no consensus among independent researchers"

1607:

The above mentioned information, written in the article, contradicts the report itself. Other than the excessive use of force by the Pakistani Army which, according to the report, resulted in the killing of 26,000 individuals (Para 33), the commission never conceded any of above alleged crimes, in

2683:

According to Payne, Yahya is purported to have said the quote at a military conference in February of '71. Obviously it was not something Yahya would have said publically, so it must have come from someone who had reported this to Payne who had attended the conference. This must have been someone

2679:

Suspicious for all these reasons, I tracked down the citation for Yahya's quote. It leads to a book by Robert Payne called Massacre (1972). In the introduction, Payne essentially acknowledges that his entire account is biased. He says, "This account is based largely on interviews with many of the

2255:

My argument is not that there arent scholars who deny genocide. My contention is that Beachler is not a good reference for this. His other lines make it clear that he does believe a genocide took place, and he is mentioning the no-genocide scholars to setup his point. The line in the lead needs a

859:

The legislation may be covered, even if it hasnt been passed, however, as I pointed out earlier, it should be presented as it is while giving both sides' story to its acceptance, passage and controversy, if any. Also, I agree that the first paragraph may not be the best point where this should be

3425:

There are other sources in a similar ball-park to the 200,000 (i.e. hundreds of thousands) But I really don't like just leaving it with a range of 200,000 to 3 Million people' without explaining why it's such a wide range. With such a wide range of estimates it's practically useless as a factual

3142:

Having gone through your explanation, I agree on some points but I have a feeling of you not accepting Bihari's as part of Bangladesh. When we refer to Bangladesh genocide 1971, we refer to every community residing in Bangladesh that might have been subjected to war crimes. Having the claim of 3

2799:

Your edit said words to the effect of anyone giving a death toll of over 200,000 is not independent or neutral. I did include the lower-end estimate of 200,000 in the infobox and the lead, since it was already covered in the main body of the article. That's as far as is reasonable in my opinion.

2671:

When the uprising began, General Yahya Khan is quoted (and highlighted) on the Knowledge page of the Bangladesh Liberation War as saying: "Kill three million of them and the rest will eat out of our hands." I suspected this quote not to be true because it does not fit Yahya's character as I have

957:

This article is about a genocide which happened in 1971 in Bangladesh. Its not a one ethnicity issue. If there are sources saying Mukti Bahini committed genocide against Biharis in Bangladesh in 1971 then it applies to this article and must be mentioned otherwise the article will not be neutral.

2581:

now that the war was over, Biharis were collectively branded as Pakistani collaborators. Severe retribution followed, leading to a counter genocide of thousands of non-Bengalis and forcing more than a million to leave their homes and seek refuge in overcrowded slum-like settlements all over the

2285:

genocide in Bangladesh or they chose to disregard it without ever informing the reader of their reasons for doing so." There may be room for expansion of that part of the body if other scholars have analyzed Sisson and Rose or have singled out other scholars who have denied that it was genocide.

3208:

Sarmila Bose seems to be a very reliable source as she has researched by herself speaking to war effectives and interviewed military personnel. I see no problem in atleast quoting the lower end figures of 50,000 proposed by her. Plus bihari persecution is very less written about and article is

2495:

You've significantly changed the content that had been formerly discussed on the talk page as talk page archives show. Your edit wasn't minor and regardless of whether you are adding "better references", that would require consensus given the nature of your edits on this page was certainly not

1396:

The figure of three million - five times the estimate for the unparalleled communal butchery in Punjab during 1947 - first mentioned by Shaikh Rahman in his interview with British TV personality David Frost in January 1972 after his return to Dacca as a free man is now universally regarded as

2298:

The details are where they belong, in the body. The statement in the lead is a high-level summary, as it should be. Because many readers will find it a controversial statement, it cites a source, Beachler, which directly supports the statement. If you want to tweak the wording in the lead to

902:

Please stop trying to sneak "Mukti Bahini" into the "perpetrators" list in the infobox. It's inaccurate and highly POV. It's trying to establish a false equivalence. It's also been discussed to death, here and on related articles. THIS article is NOT about violence against Biharis during the

2752:

User:FDW777 Many estimates of the deaths of bengalis in the 1971 war have been done and we would surely rely on the independent figures. The people should be able to differentiate on the independent figures and the awami league figures. Its better if 200,000 is quotes with the CIA refrence.

2588:

After the convening of the National Assembly was postponed by Yahya Khan on 1 March 1971, the dissidents in East Pakistan began targeting the ethnic Bihari community which had supported West Pakistan. In early March 1971, 300 Biharis were slaughtered in rioting by Bengali mobs in Chittagong

3003:

I see your reasoning for not mentioning the migration as weak as the article has multiple mentions of internal displacement like the mentioning of 30 million displacements. Biharis also lived inside of West Pakistan at the time and their migration and better explanation doesn't cause much

2783:

By independent i refer to anyone who is neutral. Nor does bangladeshi, indian or Bangladeshi claims have anything neutral to them, but it is fine to quote them. It would also be better if 200,000 could be quoted with CIA or something like US claim to differenciate on the neutral opinion.

2911:

Almost 100 people on either side of the conflict were killed and following the incident, several thousands of Biharis were arrested and imprisoned on allegations of collaboration. By 1974, the Pakistani government had transferred 108,000 Biharis to Pakistan. By 1981, the number rose to

3472:

This is not even a guess, these are simply imaginary figures. It must be possible to determine halfway reasonable numbers based on the reports of missing persons from relatives or on the basis of registration data, unless, of course, the whole story is a lie from beginning to end.

1441:

BBC does not say "There is no consensus among independent researchers" you made that up and misrepresented the source. I was wrong with regards to Hiro, but shall check his source. The Human Rights Watch was already shown to be wrong, two months ago, yet you persist in adding it?

443:. Chowdhury is a management consultant with a degree in sociology, the publisher is not an academic one, and the book is held by precisely one worldcat library. Does anyone see any reviews of his work in scholarly journals? I can't find anything on the qualifications of Haque, 3449:

The party was not known by this name until it found itself in fear of being deregistered by the Election Commission of Bangladesh. In 1971 it was known as the Jamaat-e-Islami. Thus this entry requires a correction in line with the facts existing at the time in question.

368:

which was made without achieving any consensus on talk page. So, when something unsourced can be added without consensus then it can be removed as well. If someone can add a reliable source which describe this book as controversial then i am fine with keeping that word.

151:

The second source is seriously misrepresented again, Hiro clearly says Bose gives a figure of 50-100 thousand dead, not "some" has Sheriff has written, and nowhere in the source is the term "describe the 3 million number as excessively inflated" even remotely hinted at.

2256:

citation which tells us which specific scholars deny genocide and their reasons for doing so. Or, we should extend the line in the lead to say that these denials were based on nationalist or other political considerations, which is the argument Beachler is making.

1223:, before it was moved to the current title. While I saw agreement regarding the title move, I see no agreement over redefining or changing the article's scope regarding the killings of non-Bengali minorities. Please note that what you are proposing is essentially 461:

The article contains quite a few citations which doesn't fit the requirement of WP:HISTRS, if we want to strictly follow this policy, I would suggest that we should also discuss those sources too. Some of them are from BBC, Banglapedia, DhakaTribune etc to name a

918:

I think it's important to discuss these issues rather than pre-empting edit wars. First, it would be useful if you could explain why you think the violence against Biharis in the 71 war should be excluded from this article, which is on the 71 atrocities?

2948:

to the end of the paragraph that starts "During the war, ..." is misleading and off topic. No Biharis were transferred to Pakistan during the war. Pakistan did accept some Biharis in the decade after the war, and that is appropriately covered in

2623:

Estimates of the number of war dead vary enormously, from the official Bangladeshi figure of 3,000,000 to the official Pakistani figure of 26,000...In the absence of any reliable assessment after the war, however, the actual number will never be

1235:

one side of the conflict is preposterous, hence why I asked you the question. Your claim for instance, that the 1971 war atrocities do not include Mukti Bahini atrocities, is just not true if we look at some sources. For example, Carl Skutsch in

1801: 1018:

I am inclined to agree with the closing admin regarding working on each proposed addition incrementally. The first question, and the most relevant one for now, is establishing the parties in the conflict - on both sides. We do have multiple

2218:

reports, expatriate testimony, refugee reports and an investigation by the International Commission of Jurists in 1972 all indicate, however, that the Pakistani army did commit genocide in Bangladesh in 1971." So the Beachler reference is

3146:

Aziz's claims might be fanciful for some, but mentioning them in estimates leads to no harm. The mere reason for estimates is that of no reliable figure and a produce of a range in which might or might not be placed the actual figure.

710:: "Consensus is a normal and usually implicit and invisible process across Knowledge. Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus. Should that edit later be revised by another editor 1838:

Bengalis are present in two countries but this massacre was only against Bengalis in Bangladesh. Even in Bangla this event is called 1971 Bangladeshi massacre. Not every Bangladeshi is a Bengali, there are Biharis and hill tribes

680:

That's not consensus. That's "managed to stay in the article for 250 edits when no one noticed it". And no, the burden of proof for inclusion is on you - take it to RSN, then if that says it's reliable (it won't), you can include

620:

And I'm removing the part sourced to Bartrop and Jacobs because without Chowdhury's book, it doesn't make sense to have that (very ungrammatical) sentence in there. But I guess we could put back in the fact that the students were

303:

because that is what page 40 of Margaret Alston's book says which is referenced. If one of you can add a reference which says otherwise then I will go with your version otherwise accept mine and move forward to next item.

1022:

stating that atrocities were committed by the rebel Mukti Bahini forces during the war. So this brings me to the other question - could you briefly summarize why, in your view, the article should not cover that violence?

3072:

Do reliable sources about the 1971 Bangladesh genocide talk about how many Biharis were transferred to Pakistan over the following decade? Not that I have seen. Based on the presented source and on Knowledge policies

2222:

supporting the claim made in the lead, in fact it is doing the very opposite. Either this claim should be removed, or a reference that actually supports it should be added. Here is the complete article by Beachler:

1315:

Nothing is being "censored" (whenever someone starts crying about "censorship" on Knowledge it's a near-certain red flag that they're just complaining that they don't get to push their POV in a given article).

1188:

under "perpetrators". And I'm pretty sure this has been explained several times to you already so you're behaving in bad faith and being disruptive. (You're also inventing a new meaning for the word "neutral")

3054:

The source you cited for "163,000 Biharis were transferred to Pakistan" is about Biharis in Bangladesh generally. Knowledge covers their transfer within general articles about Biharis in Bangladesh, such as

860:

mentioned. Whether to have it in a separate section is open for debate, but I guess that would be acceptable if the legislation could actually get through and is passed/implemented by the Bangladesh govt.—

2869:

recently reverted my edit on the 1971 Bangladesh genocide even though they were well sourced with reputable books and just provided a profound estimate range. The reason was termed my ongoing talk with

606:

No, it did not have consensus. There's people objecting to it right above for funky sake. And yes, reliability can be discussed at WP:RSN, but that's actually up to you, not those who wish to remove it.

1548:

I would take the bbc view as more correct. Some people who even say its 100,000 but nobody talks of them because small number of people who say what they want. more general correct view bbc seem to me

1309:

I reply - this article is NOT ABOUT any "conflict" (i.e. the Bangladesh Liberation War). It's about the genocide perpetrated by the Pakistani Armed Forces and their collaborators against Bangladeshis.

2085: 1522:

Also note, I propose that the "Estimated killings" section be sub-sectioned to "Bangladeshi claims," "Pakistani claims" "Independent" and "Others." There could be matter of debate as to whether, "

3375: 3209:

clearly messed. I didn't break WP:NPOV with my edit but most of my edits were inclusion of bihari rape and killing figures. Didn't remove anything so didn't find the reason for revert convincing

2964:, Knowledge should emphasize in the lead the views of a majority of academics. The lead should de-emphasize minority or fringe views, although they may be discussed in the body in due proportion. 2941:. It makes more sense than its edit summary, which is "Removed the controversial Sarmila Bose remarks until consensus. Sourced addition and organizing". Taking your two points in reverse order: 2299:

emphasize the weight of academic consensus, that's fine, but there's no fundamental problem with the statement "However, some scholars deny it was a genocide" or with citing Beachler for it. --

3474: 2020:

to mean "booty or spoils of war" from battles won by Muslims against unbelievers. Wrong translation is wrong translation, irregardless of the academic. Wrong translations tend to be partial.

750:

There's several editors here who are saying this is not a reliable source. That's consensus. Consensus is NOT "I managed to sneak it into the article and it was awhile before anyone noticed".

523:

without discussing it so if the decision comes out in favour of removing the whole paragraph then we will remove it but we need to restore it while the discussion is going on to preserve the

2514:

You are making very vague objections. Can you point out a specific ref which you don't want or what are the problems you are finding with the refs? And please explain how my edits were not

1219:

Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately, Volunteer Marek, I don't see your argument addressing any of the questions raised. It's important to note that the previous name of this article was

2383: 1339:

must be included in the "Perpetrator" list. If it is not included then the section "Violence against Biharis" must be discarded. The ONLY other option is to split this article into 2:

1249:

The civil war also saw tragic atrocities being committed by the Bengalis against Biharis, a situation that degenerated into official acts of violence, genocide and ethnic cleansing...

1142:

Violence against Biharis must be covered in this article and if the sources say that it was the cause of start of genocide against the other folks then that needs to be covered too.

2480:

Can you point out a specific problem with them? There is hardly any new content being added. I am trying to add better references for the content which is already on the articles.

2956:

Changing the range of estimated deaths is certainly something that can be discussed. The lowest recorded estimate is one thousand, the highest is one million. In accordance with

2373: 3224: 2687:

Payne's common-sense-defying quote about Yahya has been used in over 3000 entries on the web. Fiction has fed on itself and become fact, much like the three million figure.

3089:

directly attribute the internal displacement of more than a million non-Bengalis to the counter-genocide directed against them, so that is on-topic here. We link to

132:

Also, Some scholars also consider the number of women raped to be seriously inflated. was shown some months ago as to be wrong, only Bose writes such nonsense, see

1880:

the genocide victims were Bengalis, not Indian Bengalis! look at Infobox: Bangladesh Genocide in East Pakistan sounds like something Pakistan Genocide in India!? —

1061:

Please feel free to create a new article about the violence against Bihari during Bangladesh liberation war instead of trying to get undue content in this article.

2415: 2411: 2397: 2159: 2155: 2141: 2086:

https://web.archive.org/web/20131104105107/http://www.daily-sun.com/details_yes_03-05-2013_ICT-issues-arrest-order-against-Mueen%2C-Ashrafuzzaman_485_1_2_1_0.html

1699: 1460:

what the source says. Here it is clear that the source is saying that there are multiple numbers. I think Sheriff is on good grounds here. Let us drop this. --

878:

Saying that the law has not been passed, but has been proposed warrants notability. I implore my fellow editors to not remove link without consensus. Thanks. :)

2353: 106:

this was four years after the genocide and Gerlach says nothing of the sort which Sheriff has written, I shall check the rest of his edits to this article.

296:

Guys, I made very small edits so they are easy to compare so let's discuss each change separately one by one and resolve before moving to the next change.

2089: 2241:

Can you clarify your argument? How would you paraphrase Beachler with regard to the existence of scholars who have denied that a genocide took place? --

2384:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120426074152/http://www.instituteforthestudyofgenocide.org/events/2005iagsconference/abstracts/IAGS%202005.proposal.doc

835:

been written about the proposed law. Whatever set of sources is selected to represent the range of views on the issue, I recommend that they include

2224: 1762:

untill 1978, the Constitution of Bangladesh referred all citizens of Bangladesh as Bangalis. And all Victims were eliminated for being Bengalis!

1406:

figures of 200,000 to 400,000 victims are often mentioned in the literature, though some scholars claim that these figures are seriously inflated

2374:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130515115950/http://www.daily-sun.com/details_yes_09-11-2012_Jamaat-desperately-on-the-offensive_314_1_1_1_7.html

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You mentioned of Bihari transfer source not being of credibility when the same source was used to quote the lower bound of bihari casualties.

1283:"First, it would be useful if you could explain why you think the violence against Biharis in the 71 war should be excluded from this article" 640:

in a most neutral way, actually I am willing to take it but the text stays in the page until it is decided that the source is unreliable, per

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The whole paragraph which you removed after dropping this line here enjoyed consensus for months. This section was about me removing the word

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There already is an article on the subject and a couple POV forks to boot (at least there were, there was some consolidation at some point).

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is mentioned in the article (in fact, with way too much WEIGHT, so that section should be cut). This is about putting it in the infobox. No.

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Bangladeshis as well. This article will cover genocide perpetrated by Pakistan Army and Mukti Bahini both and that would make it neutral.

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These issues have been discussed. I guess we can discuss it some more but in the meantime cut it out with the POV edits. Don't put this in.

152: 137: 119: 2363: 3194:, please search the archives for previous discussion on Sarmila Bose. There is no consensus to include her here as a reliable source. -- 1683:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

1963:

Is genocide fuuny?I do not think so.No matter how many times the event happened,I kept my respect.After all,every event is unique.--

1244: 788: 333:"Local Bengali collaborators" is vague. Since J-e-I was the main party responsible, why not state that explicitly? I added a source. 262: 212: 186: 2343: 1387:

Independent researchers think that between 300,000 and 500,000 died. The Bangladesh government puts the figure at three million.

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Bangladesh genocide". They weren't and reliable sources do not describe either the MB actions nor the genocide in those terms.

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3,000,000". I should have submitted an edit request, of course. At any rate, a correction would be beneficial. Regards, ~~~~

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That's not the Open Library, that's the Free Library which is a different thing entirely. The original article was published

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3,000,000". While these estimates have indeed been mentioned, the grammatically correct way to say this is "between 200,000

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https://archive.is/20130415235147/http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/bangladesh-stop-harassment-of-defense-at-war-tribunal

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and from 26th march to 16th december some area were under provincial government and some area under Pakistani Occupation !

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So, no, your "argument" - which is just pure strawman - and "your questions" - have been more than adequately addressed.

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http://www.daily-sun.com/details_yes_03-05-2013_ICT-issues-arrest-order-against-Mueen%2C-Ashrafuzzaman_485_1_2_1_0.html

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It is alleged that Awami League-aligned militias carried out large scale massacres of Biharis and other ethnic groups.

1305:"the first question, and the most relevant one for now, is establishing the parties in the conflict - on both sides" 2636: 2518:. Please list each part of the edit separately and explain your objections to them with valid reference to policy. 1220: 836: 744: 492: 392: 38: 3286:. An article for the Pakistan Armed Forces' own magazine, published on an official Pakistan government website... 3257: 2663: 1631:

it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.

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Modern Genocide: The Definitive Resource and Document Collection : The Definitive Resource and Document Collection

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RaviC and Rzvas Your objections are still not clear. We can go for dispute resolution if you still don't agree.

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/beachler_-_politics_of_genocide_scholarship_crp.pdf

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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And for the millionth freaking time. "Violence against Beharis" ALREADY IS COVERED IN THE FLYING ARTICLE!!!

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I changed the wording from "local islamist militias of Jamaat-e-Islami" to "local Bengali collaborators" in

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Bose asserts that during this 25-day period of lawlessness, attacks by Bengalis on non-Bengalis were common

1347:. The content cannot contradict the infobox. Alt. discard this infobox and use belligerents list. Thanks :) 1287:

I reply - NO ONE IS TRYING TO EXCLUDE "violence against Biharis" from this article. You're making stuff up.

3328: 3214: 3155: 2879: 2821: 2789: 2758: 2736: 2639:, the official Pakistani government investigation, claimed the figure was only 26,000 civilian casualties. 2388:

http://www.instituteforthestudyofgenocide.org/events/2005iagsconference/abstracts/IAGS%202005.proposal.doc

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so it aligns with Willem van Schendel, A History of Bangladesh, (2009) Cambridge University Press pp.173

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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posits a figure of 500,000 based on a 1976 study. Is this POV pushing if both arguments are present!? :)

652:. For your information, WP:STATUSQUO is part of WP:CONSENSUS and WP:BRD and both of these are policies. 2842:

in The New Yorker. In the current version, clicking on footnote 1 next to the 200,000 figure takes you

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https://web.archive.org/web/20130927041249/http://newagebd.com/detail.php?date=2012-11-14&nid=30049

2334:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 2105: 2050:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 843: 2839: 1277:" Unfortunately, Volunteer Marek, I don't see your argument addressing any of the questions raised"??? 555:

No, it has not "enjoyed consensus for months". It got snuck in and then people expressed reservation.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20101201162513/http://www.newagebd.com/2005/dec/15/murdered/murdered.html

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https://web.archive.org/web/20101201162513/http://www.newagebd.com/2005/dec/15/murdered/murdered.html

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I am not trying to say which content is undue or not, but if "Violence against Biharis" is included,

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http://www.daily-sun.com/details_yes_09-11-2012_Jamaat-desperately-on-the-offensive_314_1_1_1_7.html

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https://web.archive.org/web/20100602055513/http://www.cidcm.umd.edu/mar/chronology.asp?groupId=77103

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Sorry, but the statement that between 1000 and 150000 people were killed is completely ridiculous.

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includes more than Sarmilla Bose and is published on the Open Library which is a reliable source.--

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to give different views. I'm not the one calling Aziz dead wrong. It's notable history professor

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further, we can maybe end with 1000-500,000 but the estimates remain controversial or something

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RaviC you are mass reverting my addition of references with very vague edit summaries like this.

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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There is no such thing as "official CIA figures", and the CIA estimate is already in the lead.

2846:, which is the exact same article including the exact same CIA/State Dept estimate of 200,000. 2717:

Removed two links from opinion page of newspaper and COI article on a newspaper from Pakistan.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20100613152129/http://southasiaanalysis.org/papers3/paper232.html

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I do not accept your assertion that anyone publishing a higher figure is not "independent".

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I believe can reasonably agree that the above reference is reflective of this present text.

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in Willem van Schendel, A History of Bangladesh, (2009) Cambridge University Press pp.173

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https://web.archive.org/web/20091214084924/http://www.rayimmigration.com.au/pressrelease.htm

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Bose, Sarmila (2011). "The question of genocide and the quest for justice in the 1971 war".

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Bangladeshi authorities claim that as many as 3 million people were killed, although the

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http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/bangladesh-stop-harassment-of-defense-at-war-tribunal

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Agree that the source is not reliable and so the simplest solution is to just remove it.

3195: 3111: 2902: 2871: 2515: 2497: 2400:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 2144:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 1821: 1804: 1738: 1461: 499: 113: 2440:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

3074: 2641: 2533: 2519: 2481: 1505: 1501: 1228: 1180:. Very very POV original research, which borders on the insulting. It's like putting 861: 812: 645: 637: 463: 2121: 1926:

Need to add information of the year to identify similar events in different times.--

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/24/mujib-confusion-on-bangladeshi-deaths

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In the period leading up to the Liberation War, nationalist mobs had killed Biharis

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providing one reason that the source is not reliable, well you need to take it to

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to the lead. Since this claim doesn't appear in the article it's a violation of

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I mean seriously, the RfC for that is still up above! Please stop playing games.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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https://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/tft/article.php?issue=20110902&page=20

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so that readers can find out more about Biharis in Bangladesh if they want to.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

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I had quoted CIA figures from a leaked intelligence report which you reverted

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https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:1971_Bangladesh_genocide#Violence_against_women

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It is easier to follow the discussion if you edit while logged in. Are you

2012:

do not mean "public property". It is Bengali for the "wealth of Ghanima" -

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070903215345/http://esearch.fedcourt.gov.au/

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Ignoring Executions and Torture: Impunity for Bangladesh's Security Forces

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The legislation can, of course, be covered here, indeed almost certainly

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Extremely Violent Societies: Mass Violence in the Twentieth-Century World

3085:, the subject is therefore off-topic for this article. Reliable sources 1854:

u mean bengali in India!? which has no official value and out of many!

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everybody mentions & searches the event using the present name. —

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I have given a Pakistani claim about the origin of the 3 million figure

1231:(i.e. against NPOV, which relies on coverage of all sides). The idea of 2013: 1696:. No consensus for the move as the current title fits the common term. 3366:

In the infobox, the death toll is given as "estimated between 200,000

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The Longest August: The Unflinching Rivalry Between India and Pakistan

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http://www.bangladeshobserveronline.com/new/2005/12/30/editorial.htm

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would suggest her viewpoint does not reflect mainstream consensus.

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Do you have any suggestions, Worldbruce, for some new wordings?

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is a self-publisher, and no worldcat libraries hold the book. --

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Word choice aside, it isn't clear to me why Knowledge is citing

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does a great job of explaining the complexity of the situation

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of March-April 1971 was in the vicinity of 500,000." Historian

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included in the article. I'm saying it doesn't belong in the

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Avoid using opinions and "Conflict of Interest" article links

1750:! all of them named after target ethnic groups and victims! 229:"Bangladesh war: The article that changed history - BBC News" 3302:

Yes but it has it's own sources and is not self-published.--

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http://newagebd.com/detail.php?date=2012-11-14&nid=30049

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untill 25th march 1971 the victims were known as pakistani

714:, it can be assumed that a new consensus has been reached." 3081:, as well as the supplementary explanation to guidelines, 2573:

For starters we should alter this sentence in the article

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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http://www.newagebd.com/2005/dec/15/murdered/murdered.html

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http://www.newagebd.com/2005/dec/15/murdered/murdered.html

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Suppression of the Muslims: US Policy and the Muslim World

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http://www.cidcm.umd.edu/mar/chronology.asp?groupId=77103

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There is no official name for mass killing and massacre!

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http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB21.pdf

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Bartrop, Paul R.; Jacobs, Steven Leonard (2014-12-17).

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http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers3/paper232.html

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http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB1.pdf

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I reply - that's NOT "my view". You're constructing a

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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Well, anyone can claim that it got snuck in but read

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Removed duplicate !vote - nom counts as support. --

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as one widely read opinion from a notable source. --

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Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War

2586:We should also modify these texts of the article. 2410:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2154:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1687:. No further edits should be made to this section. 3114:. Wikipedians are always having to judge how much 2953:. It doesn't appear directly relevant to genocide. 2946:"and 163,000 Biharis were transferred to Pakistan" 1997:. No further edits should be made to this section. 2668:Below is the relevant section from the article. 2122:http://www.rayimmigration.com.au/pressrelease.htm 2899:and 163,000 Biharis were transferred to Pakistan 2258:I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations 2228:I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations 1942:funny! how many Bengali genocide do u know !!! 1251:. The same source also attributes an account to 3428:https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP8.HTM 1564:Semi-protected edit request on 16 December 2016 277:Jamaat-e-Islami vs. local Bengali collaborators 2396:This message was posted before February 2018. 2140:This message was posted before February 2018. 1526:" goes under "others" or gets her own section. 398:The word "controversial" may be paraphrasing: 2655:Quote from Yahya Khan about Killing 3 million 418:Bose writes "Publications like the polemical 8: 3079:neutral point of view (due and undue weight) 435:. Neither seems to fit the description of a 2726: 2688: 1943: 1855: 1800:the current title is a common term, e.g., 1673:The following is a closed discussion of a 1176:- Reliable sources. What you are doing is 717:Your revision after over 250 edits is not 2326:I have just modified 5 external links on 2042:I have just modified 9 external links on 1341:1971 Bangladesh genocide against Bengalis 2937:Thank you for the above explanation for 2721:This article seems to heavily draw from 1345:1971 Bangladesh genocide against Biharis 3169: 2676:the record-breaking time of two weeks. 1184:into the infobox of the article on the 770: 170: 3376:2A02:AB04:236:E600:C015:11A8:9F1B:1E8F 2945: 2910: 2898: 2831: 2634: 2593: 2587: 2574: 1238:Encyclopedia of the World's Minorities 1043:Yes, but this article isn't about the 182:. Cambridge University Press. p. 136. 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3475:2A02:908:895:5EA0:D28F:9ABD:640F:9FE6 2889:Your most recent version can be seen 348: 7: 3091:Persecution of Biharis in Bangladesh 2951:Persecution of Biharis in Bangladesh 2893:. The consensus version can be seen 1692:The result of the move request was: 2914:which is different thing entirely. 2598:and sync it with Schendel on p.173 24: 3106:Aziz's fanciful 500,000 estimate 3057:Stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh 2616:The citation I added in this edit 2330:. Please take a moment to review 2046:. Please take a moment to review 1493:and Bangladeshi counter-claim in 431:or (later in the same paragraph) 422:by M. Abdul Mu'min Chowdhury ..." 3358: 2564:for this constructive expansion. 1623: 1571: 429:Behind the Myth of Three Million 420:Behind the Myth of Three Million 98:Serious source misrepresentation 29: 2836:There is the footnote you added 2132:http://esearch.fedcourt.gov.au/ 2110:Corrected formatting/usage for 2104:Corrected formatting/usage for 2058:Corrected formatting/usage for 1402:Page 9 of Henrik Alffram's book 349:Describing Chowdhury's book as 2016:is an Arabic word used in the 1700:closed by non-admin page mover 1470:08:31, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 1452:21:06, 23 September 2016 (UTC) 1431:20:15, 23 September 2016 (UTC) 1331:18:26, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 1271:07:46, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 1201:06:39, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 1166:02:09, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 1109:06:40, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 1071:01:19, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 1057:00:10, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 1039:19:06, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 1011:17:23, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 997:17:21, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 982:14:33, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 951:17:21, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 935:11:18, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 913:02:24, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 874:23:51, 10 September 2016 (UTC) 760:22:59, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 745:19:14, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 691:18:51, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 676:16:40, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 631:15:15, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 616:15:11, 26 September 2016 (UTC) 602:11:13, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 570:06:36, 25 September 2016 (UTC) 551:15:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 508:08:33, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 493:02:25, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 476:03:54, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 457:02:21, 15 September 2016 (UTC) 393:14:49, 14 September 2016 (UTC) 343:01:46, 24 September 2016 (UTC) 328:14:31, 10 September 2016 (UTC) 161:13:15, 23 September 2016 (UTC) 146:12:52, 23 September 2016 (UTC) 128:12:48, 23 September 2016 (UTC) 1: 3237:09:23, 23 February 2021 (UTC) 3133:06:14, 28 February 2021 (UTC) 3020:23:17, 24 February 2021 (UTC) 2990:17:41, 23 February 2021 (UTC) 2924:08:01, 23 February 2021 (UTC) 2884:23:27, 22 February 2021 (UTC) 1660:04:42, 30 December 2016 (UTC) 1618:22:15, 16 December 2016 (UTC) 1371:Alternative number of victims 868:Wire ︢ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︡ ︢ ︡ 855:14:54, 8 September 2016 (UTC) 825:13:37, 8 September 2016 (UTC) 819:Wire ︢ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︡ ︢ ︡ 470:Wire ︢ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︢ ︡ ︡ ︢ ︡ 3483:06:12, 1 November 2021 (UTC) 3219:23:54, 30 January 2021 (UTC) 3204:23:38, 30 January 2021 (UTC) 2856:19:26, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 2840:"Looking Away From Genocide" 2826:19:23, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 2810:17:54, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 2794:17:37, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 2778:15:18, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 2763:15:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 2650:12:25, 6 December 2018 (UTC) 2464:01:57, 17 January 2018 (UTC) 2309:15:45, 19 October 2017 (UTC) 2266:14:46, 18 October 2017 (UTC) 2251:15:57, 17 October 2017 (UTC) 2236:15:03, 17 October 2017 (UTC) 1888:) 09:49, 13 March 2017 (UTC) 1666:Requested move 12 March 2017 1558:12:42, 31 October 2016 (UTC) 1536:06:24, 30 October 2016 (UTC) 1518:06:49, 15 October 2016 (UTC) 1357:07:48, 15 October 2016 (UTC) 888:06:31, 15 October 2016 (UTC) 414:10.1080/14623528.2011.625750 402:Journal of Genocide Research 208:. Human Rights Watch. p. 9. 3460:07:58, 9 October 2021 (UTC) 3445:Bangladesh Jamaat-e-Islami: 2707:17:52, 6 January 2019 (UTC) 1598:to reactivate your request. 1586:has been answered. Set the 178:Gerlach, Christian (2010). 3498: 2862:Removal of sourced content 2741:13:45, 26 April 2019 (UTC) 2637:Hamoodur Rahman Commission 2469:Where is the POV language? 2427:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2323:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2171:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2039:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2030:15:58, 24 April 2017 (UTC) 1973:18:14, 19 March 2017 (UTC) 1958:21:04, 18 March 2017 (UTC) 1936:15:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC) 1919:14:21, 14 March 2017 (UTC) 1900:02:06, 21 March 2017 (UTC) 1870:21:31, 18 March 2017 (UTC) 1849:09:37, 13 March 2017 (UTC) 1830:08:45, 13 March 2017 (UTC) 1813:19:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC) 1793:18:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC) 1772:15:44, 12 March 2017 (UTC) 1713:02:06, 21 March 2017 (UTC) 1221:1971 Bangladesh atrocities 903:Bangladesh Liberation War. 3440:08:07, 11 July 2021 (UTC) 3414:20:39, 10 July 2021 (UTC) 3384:08:27, 1 April 2021 (UTC) 3348:07:52, 6 March 2021 (UTC) 3333:00:08, 6 March 2021 (UTC) 3312:03:42, 2 March 2021 (UTC) 3296:22:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC) 3270:22:26, 1 March 2021 (UTC) 3160:23:58, 5 March 2021 (UTC) 2208:12:22, 15 June 2017 (UTC) 1227:, which is fundamentally 1045:Bangladesh Liberation War 3041:? I will assume you are. 2542:13:49, 7 July 2018 (UTC) 2528:09:09, 7 July 2018 (UTC) 2510:09:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC) 2490:09:00, 7 July 2018 (UTC) 2328:1971 Bangladesh genocide 2044:1971 Bangladesh genocide 1990:Please do not modify it. 1720:1971 Bangladesh genocide 1680:Please do not modify it. 1584:1971 Bangladesh genocide 364:, i am merely reverting 292:Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 258:. Nation Books. p. 216. 202:Alffram, Henrik (2009). 18:Talk:Bangladesh genocide 2319:External links modified 2035:External links modified 356:When i remove the word 2626: 2604: 2584: 2213:The Beachler reference 1456:IP, we are allowed to 1225:historical revisionism 2834:is simply incorrect. 2660:article link below. 2621: 2600: 2579: 1397:excessively inflated. 1392:Hiro says on Page 216 784:. ABC-CLIO. p. 1866. 42:of past discussions. 3075:no original research 2552:Sentence alterations 2408:regular verification 2152:regular verification 252:Hiro, Dilip (2015). 2398:After February 2018 2142:After February 2018 1253:Anthony Mascarenhas 3187:Sarmila Bose again 2452:InternetArchiveBot 2403:InternetArchiveBot 2196:InternetArchiveBot 2147:InternetArchiveBot 1889: 1385:in this edit says 1375:Justification for 445:Archway Publishing 136:in sections above 3354:Infobox - grammar 3304:Sylvester Millner 3262:Sylvester Millner 3120:Christian Gerlach 2972:Christian Gerlach 2905:, and I note the 2743: 2731:comment added by 2709: 2693:comment added by 2428: 2172: 1960: 1948:comment added by 1902: 1876: 1872: 1860:comment added by 1745:Armenian Genocide 1742:Assyrian genocide 1703: 1652: 1649: 1643: 1637: 1602: 1601: 1404:reads like this: 1275:What do you mean 1178:original research 439:or the advice of 95: 94: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3489: 3465:1,000 to 150,000 3424: 3399: 3362: 3361: 3255: 3247: 3179: 3174: 3036: 3002: 2936: 2615: 2563: 2462: 2453: 2426: 2425: 2404: 2206: 2197: 2170: 2169: 2148: 1992: 1896: 1890: 1783:all 5 criteria. 1779:new title fails 1748:Bosnian genocide 1727: 1725:Bengali genocide 1709: 1697: 1682: 1656: 1650: 1647: 1641: 1635: 1627: 1626: 1593: 1589: 1575: 1574: 1568: 1426: 1418: 1415: 1412: 1267: 1260: 1218: 1211: 1161: 1153: 1150: 1147: 1141: 1132: 1035: 1028: 1020:reliable sources 977: 969: 966: 963: 931: 924: 871: 869: 866: 822: 820: 817: 795: 794: 775: 740: 732: 729: 726: 671: 663: 660: 657: 597: 589: 586: 583: 546: 538: 535: 532: 518: 498:I agree too. -- 473: 471: 468: 417: 388: 380: 377: 374: 323: 315: 312: 309: 295: 287: 269: 268: 249: 243: 242: 240: 239: 225: 219: 218: 199: 193: 192: 175: 118:to take a look. 117: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3497: 3496: 3492: 3491: 3490: 3488: 3487: 3486: 3467: 3447: 3418: 3393: 3391: 3359: 3356: 3249: 3241: 3189: 3184: 3183: 3182: 3175: 3171: 3030: 2996: 2930: 2864: 2750: 2715: 2657: 2609: 2557: 2554: 2471: 2456: 2451: 2419: 2412:have permission 2402: 2336:this simple FaQ 2321: 2215: 2200: 2195: 2163: 2156:have permission 2146: 2052:this simple FaQ 2037: 2006: 2001: 1988: 1894: 1723: 1707: 1678: 1668: 1655: 1646: 1640: 1634: 1624: 1591: 1587: 1572: 1566: 1424: 1416: 1413: 1410: 1373: 1323:Volunteer Marek 1265: 1258: 1215:SheriffIsInTown 1212: 1208:Volunteer Marek 1205: 1193:Volunteer Marek 1159: 1151: 1148: 1145: 1138:Vinegarymass911 1135: 1129:Volunteer Marek 1126: 1101:Volunteer Marek 1063:Vinegarymass911 1049:Volunteer Marek 1033: 1026: 1003:Volunteer Marek 989:Volunteer Marek 975: 967: 964: 961: 943:Volunteer Marek 929: 922: 905:Volunteer Marek 900: 867: 864: 862: 818: 815: 813: 805: 800: 799: 798: 791: 777: 776: 772: 752:Volunteer Marek 738: 730: 727: 724: 719:without dispute 712:without dispute 683:Volunteer Marek 669: 661: 658: 655: 623:Volunteer Marek 608:Volunteer Marek 595: 587: 584: 581: 562:Volunteer Marek 544: 536: 533: 530: 515:Volunteer Marek 512: 485:Volunteer Marek 469: 466: 464: 437:reliable source 399: 386: 378: 375: 372: 354: 335:Volunteer Marek 321: 313: 310: 307: 289: 284:Volunteer Marek 281: 279: 274: 273: 272: 265: 251: 250: 246: 237: 235: 227: 226: 222: 215: 201: 200: 196: 189: 177: 176: 172: 110:Volunteer Marek 107: 100: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3495: 3493: 3466: 3463: 3446: 3443: 3390: 3387: 3355: 3352: 3351: 3350: 3317: 3316: 3315: 3314: 3300: 3299: 3298: 3275: 3274: 3273: 3272: 3188: 3185: 3181: 3180: 3168: 3167: 3163: 3140: 3139: 3138: 3137: 3136: 3135: 3099: 3098: 3097: 3096: 3095: 3094: 3065: 3064: 3063: 3062: 3061: 3060: 3047: 3046: 3045: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3033:46.152.111.198 3023: 3022: 3012:46.152.111.198 3006: 3005: 2993: 2992: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2966: 2965: 2954: 2927: 2926: 2909:provided says 2863: 2860: 2859: 2858: 2813: 2812: 2781: 2780: 2749: 2746: 2745: 2744: 2714: 2711: 2656: 2653: 2553: 2550: 2549: 2548: 2547: 2546: 2545: 2544: 2470: 2467: 2446: 2445: 2438: 2391: 2390: 2382:Added archive 2380: 2372:Added archive 2370: 2362:Added archive 2360: 2352:Added archive 2350: 2342:Added archive 2320: 2317: 2316: 2315: 2314: 2313: 2312: 2311: 2291: 2290: 2289: 2288: 2287: 2286: 2277: 2276: 2275: 2274: 2273: 2272: 2214: 2211: 2190: 2189: 2182: 2135: 2134: 2126:Added archive 2124: 2116:Added archive 2114: 2108: 2102: 2094:Added archive 2092: 2084:Added archive 2082: 2074:Added archive 2072: 2064:Added archive 2062: 2036: 2033: 2010:gonimoter maal 2005: 2002: 2000: 1999: 1985:requested move 1979: 1978: 1977: 1976: 1975: 1939: 1938: 1921: 1907:Strong Support 1878:Strong Support 1874: 1873: 1833: 1832: 1815: 1795: 1774: 1760: 1759: 1752: 1751: 1739:Greek genocide 1735: 1734: 1729: 1718: 1716: 1690: 1689: 1675:requested move 1669: 1667: 1664: 1663: 1662: 1653: 1644: 1638: 1600: 1599: 1576: 1565: 1562: 1561: 1560: 1546: 1545: 1544: 1543: 1542: 1541: 1540: 1539: 1538: 1528:Messiaindarain 1520: 1510:Messiaindarain 1479: 1478: 1477: 1476: 1475: 1474: 1473: 1472: 1444:45.125.128.247 1434: 1433: 1399: 1389: 1383:The BBC source 1372: 1369: 1368: 1367: 1366: 1365: 1364: 1363: 1362: 1361: 1360: 1359: 1349:Messiaindarain 1320: 1316: 1313: 1310: 1307: 1301: 1294: 1288: 1285: 1279: 1189: 1124: 1123: 1122: 1121: 1120: 1119: 1118: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1081: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1075: 1074: 1073: 1059: 999: 955: 954: 953: 899: 896: 895: 894: 893: 892: 891: 890: 880:Messiaindarain 809:Messiaindarain 804: 803:Bangladesh Law 801: 797: 796: 789: 769: 768: 764: 763: 762: 704: 703: 702: 701: 700: 699: 698: 697: 696: 695: 694: 693: 618: 510: 481: 480: 479: 478: 424: 423: 353: 347: 346: 345: 278: 275: 271: 270: 263: 244: 220: 213: 194: 187: 169: 168: 164: 153:45.125.128.130 138:45.125.128.130 120:45.125.128.130 99: 96: 93: 92: 87: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3494: 3485: 3484: 3480: 3476: 3470: 3464: 3462: 3461: 3457: 3453: 3452:Abul Bakhtiar 3444: 3442: 3441: 3437: 3433: 3429: 3422: 3416: 3415: 3411: 3407: 3403: 3402:WP:OLDSOURCES 3397: 3388: 3386: 3385: 3381: 3377: 3373: 3369: 3365: 3353: 3349: 3345: 3341: 3337: 3336: 3335: 3334: 3330: 3326: 3321: 3313: 3309: 3305: 3301: 3297: 3293: 3289: 3285: 3281: 3280: 3279: 3278: 3277: 3276: 3271: 3267: 3263: 3259: 3253: 3245: 3240: 3239: 3238: 3234: 3230: 3226: 3223: 3222: 3221: 3220: 3216: 3212: 3206: 3205: 3201: 3197: 3193: 3186: 3178: 3173: 3170: 3166: 3162: 3161: 3157: 3153: 3148: 3144: 3134: 3130: 3126: 3121: 3117: 3113: 3109: 3105: 3104: 3103: 3102: 3101: 3100: 3092: 3088: 3084: 3083:stay on topic 3080: 3076: 3071: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3058: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3050: 3049: 3048: 3040: 3034: 3029: 3028: 3027: 3026: 3025: 3024: 3021: 3017: 3013: 3008: 3007: 3000: 2995: 2994: 2991: 2987: 2983: 2979: 2973: 2968: 2967: 2963: 2959: 2955: 2952: 2947: 2943: 2942: 2940: 2934: 2929: 2928: 2925: 2921: 2917: 2913: 2908: 2904: 2900: 2896: 2892: 2888: 2887: 2886: 2885: 2881: 2877: 2873: 2868: 2861: 2857: 2853: 2849: 2845: 2841: 2837: 2833: 2830: 2829: 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2238: 2237: 2233: 2229: 2226: 2221: 2212: 2210: 2209: 2204: 2199: 2198: 2187: 2183: 2180: 2176: 2175: 2174: 2167: 2161: 2157: 2153: 2149: 2143: 2138: 2133: 2129: 2125: 2123: 2119: 2115: 2113: 2109: 2107: 2103: 2101: 2097: 2093: 2091: 2087: 2083: 2081: 2077: 2073: 2071: 2067: 2063: 2061: 2057: 2056: 2055: 2053: 2049: 2045: 2040: 2034: 2032: 2031: 2027: 2023: 2019: 2015: 2011: 2004:Wrong meaning 2003: 1998: 1996: 1991: 1986: 1981: 1980: 1974: 1970: 1966: 1962: 1961: 1959: 1955: 1951: 1947: 1941: 1940: 1937: 1933: 1929: 1925: 1922: 1920: 1916: 1912: 1908: 1905: 1904: 1903: 1901: 1898: 1897: 1887: 1883: 1882:78.34.205.197 1879: 1871: 1867: 1863: 1859: 1853: 1852: 1851: 1850: 1846: 1842: 1837: 1831: 1827: 1823: 1819: 1816: 1814: 1810: 1806: 1802: 1799: 1796: 1794: 1790: 1786: 1785:In ictu oculi 1782: 1778: 1775: 1773: 1769: 1765: 1764:78.34.205.197 1761: 1757: 1753: 1749: 1746: 1743: 1740: 1736: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1726: 1721: 1715: 1714: 1711: 1710: 1701: 1695: 1688: 1686: 1681: 1676: 1671: 1670: 1665: 1661: 1658: 1657: 1630: 1622: 1621: 1620: 1619: 1615: 1611: 1610:39.42.123.189 1605: 1597: 1594:parameter to 1585: 1581: 1577: 1570: 1569: 1563: 1559: 1555: 1551: 1550:Saadkhan12345 1547: 1537: 1533: 1529: 1525: 1521: 1519: 1515: 1511: 1507: 1506:Kamal Hossain 1503: 1502:David Bergman 1499: 1496: 1492: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1486: 1485: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1471: 1467: 1463: 1459: 1455: 1454: 1453: 1449: 1445: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1435: 1432: 1428: 1427: 1420: 1419: 1407: 1403: 1400: 1398: 1393: 1390: 1388: 1384: 1381: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1370: 1358: 1354: 1350: 1346: 1342: 1338: 1334: 1333: 1332: 1328: 1324: 1321: 1317: 1314: 1311: 1308: 1306: 1302: 1299: 1295: 1293: 1289: 1286: 1284: 1280: 1278: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1268: 1262: 1261: 1254: 1250: 1246: 1245:9781135193881 1243: 1239: 1234: 1230: 1226: 1222: 1216: 1209: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1198: 1194: 1190: 1187: 1183: 1179: 1175: 1172: 1171: 1170: 1169: 1168: 1167: 1163: 1162: 1155: 1154: 1139: 1130: 1110: 1106: 1102: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1088: 1087: 1086: 1085: 1072: 1068: 1064: 1060: 1058: 1054: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1041: 1040: 1036: 1030: 1029: 1021: 1016: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1008: 1004: 1000: 998: 994: 990: 985: 984: 983: 979: 978: 971: 970: 956: 952: 948: 944: 940: 939: 938: 937: 936: 932: 926: 925: 917: 916: 915: 914: 910: 906: 897: 889: 885: 881: 877: 876: 875: 872: 870: 858: 857: 856: 852: 848: 844: 841: 838: 833: 829: 828: 827: 826: 823: 821: 810: 807:Ref edits by 802: 792: 790:9781610693646 787: 783: 782: 774: 771: 767: 761: 757: 753: 749: 748: 747: 746: 742: 741: 734: 733: 720: 715: 713: 709: 692: 688: 684: 679: 678: 677: 673: 672: 665: 664: 651: 647: 643: 639: 634: 633: 632: 628: 624: 619: 617: 613: 609: 605: 604: 603: 599: 598: 591: 590: 577: 573: 572: 571: 567: 563: 558: 554: 553: 552: 548: 547: 540: 539: 526: 522: 521:controversial 516: 511: 509: 505: 501: 497: 496: 495: 494: 490: 486: 477: 474: 472: 460: 459: 458: 454: 450: 446: 442: 438: 434: 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