Talk:Bhargava - Knowledge

2638:

contributions to many Sanskrit granths. Bhargavas have been the RajPurohits of Prithviraj Chauhan and his ancestors,the rulers of Delhi 800-1000 years ago. Ignoring MLBhargava and casting aspersions on him is also not right. Confusions arise because of Dhusar Brahmins and Dhusar Vaishyas. Some body rightly mentioned Dhusars are Brahmins as well as Vaishyas and Bhargavas who followed Brahminical way of living were indeed Brahmins. Hindu emperor of medieval times Hemu, born in 1501, was the son of a Purohit and a Brahmin. Sanskritisation has got nothing to do with Bhargavas. However, I submit another citation which says that Bhargavas are Dhusars Brahmins. 'The Tribes and Castes' of Central Provinces of India. by R.V.Russell, ICS Superintendent of Ethnography, Published by Macmillan & Co Ltd., Toronto, book.google.co.in/books isbn1465583035.

1964:

rejected by you on filmsy grounds. Is there a single citation which says that Saint Puran Das was a Vaishy. He was a Purohit. Several temples owned by his community are still in existence in his place of birth and town of Rewari. Modern historians and researchers are fully convinced about caste of Hemu and his community. Prof. Satish Chandra Millal, National President of 'Itihas Sanklan Yojna', in his latest article on 'Second Battle of Panipat' in the book 'Panipat Ke Ran-Sangram' has also changed his stance now and confirms that Hemu was indeed a Bhargava and Brahmin. Please consider these facts with an open mind.

1939:

wrong ... This is a work of both history and adulation; it teaches us about the past and about a typical Indian approach to its heroes." And therein lies the likely problem with the source that we use in this article: the chances of the guy being a dispassionate teller of a tale involving Hemu etc are slim-to-none and the likelihood of him glorifying his own caste and its beliefs gained through sanskritisation (if it is his own caste) is very high. Bearing this in mind and the fact that all of his books seem to have been published by fairly unknown/non-academic presses and I doubt that this is good enough. -

2148:@Sam : M.L.Bhargava is a well educated author (M.A., D.Phil) and has written several books on diversified topics in English and Hindi. Just because he is a Bhargava, and writes about Hemu, he cannot be doubted. However, M.L.Bhargava is not the only one who has written about Hemu as a Bhargava-Brahmin. There are several citations above. Many more can be given saying that Hemu was a Bhargava-Brahmin by birth. Also those who write Hemu as a Vaishy, called him so because of his being a businessman, not on the basis of birth. So Hemu should be considered a Bhargava and Brahmin, as all Bhargavas are Brahmin. 2443:

spoiling the reputation of Knowledge. Despite giving dozens of citations that Bhargava is a Brahmin community and also Hemu belonged to Bhargava community, Sitush remains adamant on his point without any reliable citation on Hemu's family being a non-Brahmin. Several other editors have pointed out these discrepencies earlier, but Sitush's cartel always has its say. I do not mind to be blocked on wikipedia, but you must give the true reason so that people can analyse and understand the happenings on wikipedia. Putting the wrong stuff and garbage on Knowledge is not going to help anyone.

2972: 547:. Gone through Bhrgava history, Yes Netenhancer and Bhargavaflame are correct this page Bhargav is having synonym of Bhrigu, so the referece of Bhrigu and the histroy how this part of Gotra - origin should be there, Sitush roam around for web and do respect truth and check references. Avoid the warlike corrections. Do respect corrections by others, do not undo totally although need to correct them. Thanks you all for working to get better Wiki. Do add reference and citation and keep page healthy. Thanks again. - 2010:'India's Historical Battles': From Alexander the Great to Kargil by Kaushik Roy, p. 68: exact words are "Hem Chandra was born in a Gaur Brahmin family of Alwar in Rajasthan. The heredity profession of his family was agriculture. However, some members of his family were traders of saltpetre, one of the chief components of Gunpowder. This probably explains Hemu's familiarity with firearms from a young age.". Also p 73, exact words are " Hemu's sister's son, Ramaya, a fat Brahmin, commanded the left wing." 21: 722:

Sabha' (www.bhargavasabha.org) the umbrella organisation of Bhargava (Dhusar Brahmins) community, which held its 125th Foundation Day, the annual conference last week, on 14-16th Nov. 2014 at Udaipur, Rajasthan, India. Atleast half the persons listed on the page were present in the conference, while some others have lived their life long back. Is there any controversy whether they were/are Bhargavas. If yes, please be clear on this.

2578:

propagation of the myth that they have always been brahmins. So there would be plenty of sources that say so. The question is how good they are as sources. M. L. Bhargava is the best source they have. He was trained as a historian and coauthored a book published by OUP, but his independent writing seems to be all wishy-washy. So, sadly, this debate will never end. This is what Sitush is always up against.

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various pages, but Sitush very dictatorially keeps changing them at will. At times he accepted the same citation which he rejected earlier. This can be seen on page Hemu also. There is no unnecessary addition here. Information is linked and relevent.Sitush claims that he knows all about Gotras. I wonder if he can name 12 Gotras of Bhargava community.

2007:'Early Aryans to Swaraj' by SRBakshi and others, Vol 5, p.163, exact wordings are " A resident of Rewari, Hemu was a Dhusar Bhargava*, and in his early days used to sell salt in the streets of his town. The aestrix explains that-in contemporary chronicles he is called Baqqual or Vaishya but he was in fact, a Bhargava (Brahmin of Gaur sub caste)." 2377:

son, who his father is, not acceptable on Knowledge and some body sitting far away, not knowing family will be a better source to tell his father's name. Here Sitush has only mentioned those sources calling Hemu a non-Brahim, which do not mention about Hemu's father, family and community.This is a wrong approach.

2442:

This discussion merely shows how some editors, taking help of others can do any thing to boost their ego and circumvent and distort policies to suppress facts and threaten genuine editors with sanctions to force their points. This type of dictatorial cartelisation is visible on many pages and is only

736:

On page Hemu also, Sitush is determind not to accept Hemu a Dhusar Brahim, though Hemu was son of a Purohit and his sister was married in to the clan of RajPurohits at Qutabpur, Rewari. Sitush claims that he understands Gotras of Bhargava community well, but fails to mention any Gotras and calls Hemu

721:

After going through the history of page 'Bhargava' and talk page of Hemu, facts confirm my fears that Sitush has analysed citations wrongly and has to mend his opinion on these two pages. Bhargava prominent persons can be verified from any source, specially lists at the website of 'All India Bhargava

391:

stop reverting edits which was added by references, I think you are not totally aware of Gotra's (communities) of Brahmin, Bhargav is first community and some of the members of that community are use that to represent with their last name. Hope you got the intention of edit and stop reverting without

2952:

Bhargava community was never a Bania community - records shows several generations of Bhargava's as Brahmins. Named Bhargava's after Bhrigu Rishi the lineage is impressive with names like Parshuram (an avtaar of Lord Vishnu), Chavan, Jamagdni belonging to the community. A very forward community with

2529:

There are many citations above numbered from 1 to 11 which confirm that Bhargavas are Dhusar Brahmans and not vaishya or Banias. Are elevan citations not enough ? Abusing a prominent writer M.L.Bhargava whose contributions are in various fields is not right for some editors. This way any writer can

2287:

This writer calls Hemu a Brahmin, a Rajput, a Vaishya and a Shudra too ! It may be neutral but not verifiable ? This is merely kite flying and confusing. But maximum writers have written him a Brahmin However, no body among writer's references has called his father Rai Puran Das as a Vaishya. Hemu's

2192:

You are still completely ignoring policy and I'm begining to tire of it, sorry. Writing lots of books says absolutely nothing about reliability etc. Since you have no opinion but other people do - and their opinion is that he is unlikely to be reliable - the correct course of action is to remove all

2162:

Sorry but this seems to be just your opinion. If we allowed things to be said or not said in articles simply because someone thought it was right or not right to do so then there would be no point in us having policies and guidelines. And without policies and guidelines we would have anarchy. And if

2092:

Bhargavaflame, you are missing the point anyway, I'm afraid. The fact that quite a few sources say Hemu was a Bhargava does not obviate from the equally evident fact that quite a few say otherwise. This entire issue has been dealt with on the talk page for the Hemu article and I'd be loathe to treat

513:

Sitush should understand that Bhargava is not a single Gotra, it is a community with further 12 Gotras to it. Bhargavas are Brahmins and decendents of Bhrigu-Chavan clan, from the Dhosi Hill area and are called Dhusar Brahmins, part of 'Gaur Brahmins'. We find several examples and citations to it on

2376:

It is in circles because a fact on Hemu is not taken with open mind. Sitush seems to be adamant on not calling Hemu a Bhargava-Brahmin. I am surprised that in the name of neutrality, more than a dozen important reliable sources are rejected. It is an intriguing situation, where a mother telling his

2359:

Sitush has no axe to grind here. He is merely saying that we do not have enough reliable information about Hemu's caste to be able to put it in black-and-white that he was a Bhargava brahmin. While you may be personally convinced that Hemu was such, Knowledge must reflect scholarly consensus, not

2033:"'Whar Ails the Indian Army', A report to the Supreme Commander, p 79, By Man Mohan Sharma 1998; Exact words are " The second battle of Panipat was fought between Hemu Bakal and Akbar. Hemu a Gaur Brahmin by Caste was the Prime Minister in the court of Moh. Shah Adil, a descendent of Sher Shah Suri. 2029:

Land & People of Indian States and UT, Vol 9, p 338, 2006, by SCBhatt & Gopal K Bhargava; exact words are " The celebrated warrior-general, Hemu was a Dhosar Brahmin" 9) Akbar the Great: Political History, 1542-1605 AD, p. 24, by ALShrivastva-1973; exact words are " Probably a Gaur Brahmin

1871:

I've no idea if it is the same person, either, Kautilya3. We always tend to be wary of sources where the writer appears potentially to be a member of the community about whom they are writing, regardless of their qualifications. Bhargavaflame, Redtigerxyz is one very experienced contributor who has

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I do not mean to disrespect or hurt any one. If i hurt any one inadvertantly, I feel sorry for that. I appreciate facts should be verifiable. I can give you names of 12 Gotras of Bhargava community, which are practiced by the community and published in our own community publications. Wonder if Wiki

2704:

Every day you threaten me of sanctions, how does it matter ? I have not said any thing wrong about you in person, except objecting to your stand on classifying Bhargavas wrongly and perpetuating lies about them. You are muffling the identity of a community and still threatening. Go ahead ! You are

2577:

Oh, no! I don't think some random web site will settle the issue at all. As Sitush's text states beautifully, backed up an authentic source, the Dhusars were originally vaishyas/banias, and during the 19th century, they converted themselves to brahmins. Part of the sanskritisation process is the

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I have no opinion on M.L.Bhargava. However, his good books written on a variety of subjects say it all. Any aspersion on him is ill founded. Several other authors also have said that Hemu was a Bhargava-Brahmin.I again ask you Sir, to point out if any author has called Hemu's father Puran Das as a

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page links here for the "Bhargava" gotra. If this page is becoming something else, at the least that link should be removed. As I said earlier, gotras are not limited to Brahmins. So, if this page is about the "Bhargava" gotra, it cannot also be about a Brahmin community called "Bhargava". So,

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because there are more than two of us in dispute here but there are avenues that I could pursue which would draw the attention of other people to it. I'd rather not expose you to the big wide world of Knowledge when (I think) you are all pretty new here but maybe that is what we will have to do. -

2739:

I fully support verifiability of citations. But you rejected Pre Raj, Raj period, Todd's reports,Gyan publications,BhargavaPL and community authors etc for one reason or the other and are silent on other citations.On the other hand you accept a casual reference to declare the community as Vaishy.

2614:

This is at the core of the difficulties on many caste articles (be it claims to brahmin status, or kshatriya or whatever). One of the main reasons for the creation of mahasabhas, for example, was to promote such claims back in the days of the Raj when the administrators were practising scientific

2336:

The writing of this author and describing Hemu belonged to all Vernas of Hinduism merely confuses the issue more and shows casual approach to Hemu's caste. But that does not mean one can pick any Verna and call Hemu belonged to that. If authors had known and talked about Hemu's father, family and

1793:

M.L.Bhargava has been a renowned auther and has written many books on diversified subjects published by Reliance Publishing House, Delhi. His books include:1) History of Modern India, 2) Indian Ocean Strategies, 3) Indian National Army-Tokyo Cadets 4) Indian National Army-Secret Service 5) Indian

3058:

Please look at several citations above on Bhargavas mentioned as Brahims. But Sitush rejected them for no good reason. Time has come to decide the matter in courts as some editors on Knowledge are denigrating a community for years together willfully for egoistic reasons. Sense and facts are not

2637:

I have given many references above showing Bhargavas are Dhusar Brahmins but they are rejected out right, and even MLBhargava blacklisted. This is a sad development. The genarlisation of so called 'Sanskritisation' is not good. Bhargavas have been Brahmins since the time of Rishi Bhrugu, who has

2211:

There is no reason why I should accept your wrong assesment. There is no policy that says accept lies and untruth on Knowledge. Instead of replying my question 'If any author has written father of Hemu as a Vishya'. you are bent upon calling Hemu a Vaishya and not Bhargava Brahmin, which so many

1045:

The list of prominent persons have descriptions. Some have pages on wiki already and have been members of Parliament (5 of them), still all are removed again and again. More references/details of others can also be given. Bhrigu is not over-mentioned here, but he needs a mention to show links of

2391:

I am merely wanting to follow policy. If you think that my approach is wrong then you still do not understand the policy. There is only so much that I can do to explain it to you, after which I'll just go ahead and fix things as best I can. I'm very nearly at the "just do it" stage right now. -

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but it doesn't look that great. The reviewer notes that Bhargava has found one thing of interest, although he expresses it in a disorganised manner, but is pretty critical with "The major shortcoming of this work ... is that the author presents Bose as the perfect hero, free from flaw and never

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is; you can just read its page. A gotra is like assigning a family guru and, in practice, it prevents incest because people of the same gotra don't marry. Whatever "Bhargava community" that this page is trying to talk about is not a gotra. So, I am removing all references to gotra from here.

1254:

Thanks for adding dispute at Notice Board-Talk page, I think instead adding it in 'Noticeboard for India-related topics' you were added it in Talk(Discussion) page! By the way I am not new nor new-ish at Wiki, was with Wiki before 22 years and back with another name. Any way you are doing some

751:

Objections of Sitush in relating Bhargavas to Bhrugu, are also ridiculous. The discussions/confusions on two pages Hemu and Bhargava, on caste of Bhargavas (Dhusar Brahmins) is continuing for some years now. Practically, they lead a life of Brahmins and follow Brahminical rituals. Sitush should

2852:

and stop wasting people's time. Even the author of your latest citation says "In contemporary chronicles he is called Baqqal or Vaish, but he was, in act, a Bharghava (Brahman of Gaur sub-Caste)". Aside from the fact that this is poor English, there is no support for the assertion so it isn't

1963:

You are only justifying your comments splitting a hair. It is not accepted. M.L.Bhargava is a respectable author whome you are criticising for no reason. M.L.Bhargava is not the only one to write on Bhargavas and Hemu. Several other citations on page Hemu which call him a Bhargava/Brahmin are

2025:

Advanced study in the History of Medieval India', by J.L.Mehta, page 190, exact words are " Soon after Humanyun's death, Agra and Delhi were occupied by Hem Chandra, nicknamed Hemu Baqqal (Viz. Baniya) the brilliant Prime Minister and indomitable commander in chief of Muhammad Adil Shah Sur.

2866:@philg88 May be author's English is poor,but his assertion that Hemu Bhargava in fact was a Brahmin should be taken in to account. This also implies that Hemu and his community is wrongly called a Vaishya.This is a verifiable citation that Bhargavas are Brahmins and should be incorporated.. 2193:

references to him. The question then becomes can we find alternate sources for the various statements and can we frame the Hemu point in a neutral manner. There is no way we are going to say "Hemu was a Bhargava" - for what is hopefully the last time, I ask you to consider our attitude to

642:. How much space in the school article do we devote to explaining the Swami? Usually, a line at most and that line includes a link to our article about him. The same general rule applies here. We do not need all the detail about Bhrigu: "the Bhargava community now claim descent from a 2491:

This page shows how Knowledge works. Despite so many references, bhargavas are shown and written as vaishy not brahmans. this is non sense. All know Dhusars are brahmans as well as vaishy and Bhargava fall in Brahman category. Only wikipedia calls them vaishy. Why ? stop non sense.

770:, which explains how we deal with sources. You'd gather from it that your proposed caste-affiliated website is useless as a source for the list of people, and especially so for those who are living. As for the stuff at the Hemu talk page re: his caste, that was a decision reached by 899:

self-identify: you'll need an autobiography, a newspaper interview, a news story saying that they are president of the caste mahasabha or something like that. I'd concentrate on the living people first because if you can't source them very quickly then they need to be

1468:

Kautilya is right. There is utter confusion on Bhargava being a Caste, Community or a Gotra on this page. Bhargavas (Dhusar Brahmins-who are migrants from Dhosi Hill area) are a community with Brahmin as Caste and have 12 Gotras among them. Sitush should comment on

366:, so there is no need for extensive content relating to that figure. It is also not a means of promoting an identity that has been created by members of the community. That identity certainly deserves a mention but not to the point of overwhelming the content - see 752:

consider various citations given on talk page of Hemu with open mind and dissuade from any pre conceieved notions and confusions on caste of Bhargavas. Only ignorants have written him as Bania/Vaishy because of his supplying of Guns and Saltpetre to Sher Shah Suri.

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definitively of the gotra: I agree that some sources mention him as such but many more say otherwise and this is typical caste politics/puffery, trying to "claim" a prominent warrior as your own. The issue has been discussed to death at the talk page for the

1635:

Bhargavas (Dhusar Brahmins from Dosi Hill) have been maintaining this page for long, say couple of years. This community has 12 Gotras to them. I think we should have two different pages on Bhargavas. One for Dhusar Brahmins, other for those, whose Gotra is

2789:

Does really matter anyway. You could produce ten books that say Hemu was a Bhargava and the article would still say, at best, that some sources say he was a B and others are less certain. I've already explained this above also. Really, this is pointless. -

451:

Sitush, Bhargavaflame is correct. Also thanks for sugessions, just chill / slow I have just reverted edits which was removed purposely by some others, and will get references for them. There should be references from web, if not will delete some of them.

952:

Your objection was right, but instead only undo contribute it, I think Bhrigu sage preliminary info is require for relevance, I have contributed some lines which connected to the stuff in a right way. This article has been already rated as Stub-Class -

1775:

Some experienced people here have already doubted the reliability of the book authored by M. L. Bhargava. So far, no-one has challenged that opinion. I'll be removing it unless someone can come up with an extremely persuasive reason for retention. -

1674:? What is this our-your concept ? Why are you silent on naming 12 Gotras of Bhargava community when you consider yourself an expert on castes ? It is quite unfortunate that a senior editor like you does not appreciate truth on wiki pages. 1174:

Yes. It is mostly rubbish. It was slightly better before the three new contributors turned up, although it still had references to the work of M. L. Bhargava, who almost certainly is not reliable for anything but their own opinion. -

697:

Once we have dealt with these issues, we're back at the article as it was before the three of you began editing it a few hours ago. I know you may not like it, but this place is not always about what any one person particularly

2825: 2244:. If such sources do not exist then whatever you may think, the information cannot be included in the encyclopedia. This is not "lies and untruth", it is policy and you must abide by it if you wish to continue editing here. 2427:

and wasting the time of editors that could be better spent elsewhere improving the encyclopedia. Please drop your crusade in order to avoid the sanctions mentioned at the top of this page being imposed on you. Thanks.

2030:

of Dhusar sub-caste (modern Bhargava) and of puny physique 'Hemu rose by gradual steps on account of his intelligence, loyality and great qualities of leadership until he became the de facto ruler of the Sur Empire.

841:

Rest, Lets do not argu more and do not undo page as per , users who are contributing taking efforts, lets edit it. Undo is simple way but it will remove lots of information. Lets correct them instead undo. -

2672:

Basically You will not accept any citation out of dozens posted here for one reason or the other. You are perpetuating only lies and untruths on Knowledge. You are only spoiling goodwill of Knowledge for some

1151:

is mentioned as one of the saptarshi's of this manvantara. If he is a descendant of Bhrigu, which is widely accepted, then Bhrigu could not also be a saptarshi of the present manvantara. I think he is a lot

430:

Sitush is making illogical and irrational additions and deletions on this page. He should understand that a Bhrigu-Chavan rishi decendent is a Bhargava, also called Dhusar Brahmin. Bhrigu and Bhargavas remain

1794:

National Congress-Its affiliates in North and East India 6) Role of Press in Freedom Movement. There is no reason to doubt his integrity as a writer. Could you be specific what all he has written is wrong ?

2687:

No, the problem here is that you do not like our policies etc. Throwing mud at me is a diversionary tactic but it isn't going to make any difference, other than perhaps earning you some sort of sanction. -

2039:

Historical Perspective of Warfare in India: some morals, By Sri Nandan Prasad, p 29: exact words are : "Hemu the commander-in-chief of the Pathan army at Panipat II (ad 1556) was of course, a Brahmin "

2255:

Neutral and Verififiable Reliable Source is what I am striving for. I'll again request you to give me a neutral and reliable sources which confirm that Hemu's father was a Vaishya and not Brahmin.

2826:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Zm6dmJ7fXjIC&pg=PA163&dq=hemu+brahmin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TafNUYicNcKr0QWOzoHIAw&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=hemu%20brahmin&f=false

702:

to see, nor is it even the case that three people can "outvote" one person to force their way. If your version does not comply with our policies, it will not exist. It's a simple as that. -

774:, not one imposed by me. I really do think that you need to read up on some of these blue-linked polices and guidelines that I've been giving you, otherwise you're in for quite a shock. - 1260:- I am not in part of Undo(rollback) this page, because it will remove some information which was added by another co-users, just need some improvement and correct whats wrong, Thanks - 2036:'Indica' Vol. 19, p 27, 1982; exact words are " Adil Shah's successful Brahmin General Hemu, paused in Delhi to crown himself Emperor of Hindustan with revivalist title of Vikramaditya" 2321:

No, that author discusses various viewpoints that other academics have given. It is quite literally a text-book example of how we are supposed to approach such matters on Knowledge. -

1032:

and is not permitted. Your goal here should be to improve the article in line with Knowledge guidelines and policies, not to argue with other editors and make accusations. Thank you.

1822:

That is the typical odd mix of books that I would expect from an amateur who likes writing. What academic authority does he have? What general authority does he have to write about

895:

If you want a little time to find sources for the list of names then that's fine but please do read my comments above, noting in particular that if the people are alive then they

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community, this confusion would not have been there. Those who mention Hemu's father, family and community are clear and convinced that he was a Brahmin of Bhargava community.

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If I am not wrong, I sense from your feedback, Bhargava Community and Gotra is different (first confirm this) then we have to seperate them with different pages. Might be

408:. The repeated addition of that list of names is not acceptable. Slow down, please, and discuss things: you are making all sorts of errors, some of them very basic, eg: per 826:

Sitush do not take it on your own or do not own Wiki as yourself, refer your sentence 'does not comply with our policies', talk as Wiki policies. Do not arrogant here..

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peaked some correct version and reference from them. Looks like you have reverted your talk page, Netenhancer warn you not to undo page. do not revert talks, Thanks. -

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prevailing here. May I request you to mention Knowledge's Indian office address here so that we could resolve the issue in court of law. I thank you in anticipation.

1732:

for your claims then you need to demonstrate that fact—please do not criticise other editors when they are merely informing you of community guidelines. Thank you.

921:

I don't think the Bhrigu stuff has any place here in its extended form and, really, I don't think that is debatable. We just don't do what you are trying to do. -

1561:

information is more important than community because community is part of Gotra, as we know that same Gotra people will not allow to get married, you can visit

2013:"The Successors of Sher Shah by Nirodh Bhushan Roy, written in 1934, has mentioned that Hemu was born in a Bhargava Dhusar family, a sub caste of Gaur Brahmins 1155:

Parashurama is dated to some time much earlier than Rama, and Rama was in tretayuga. So, Parashurama cound't be at the junction of tretayuga and dwaparayuga.

994:

Alas, the only class lower than "stub" is "we don't have an article". The Bhrigu detail is far too much, and it is unnecessarily glorifying. I cannot seek a

1654:

for that. Even as things stand, the article barely meets the standard (and it will get tougher because M L Bhargava is going to be removed as a source). -

802:

Editing Knowledge is a privilege, not a right. You must follow our policies and guidelines or your editing privileges will be revoked. Please read up on

1808:

Please be specific which experienced people have doubted the reliability of which book by M.L.Bhargave ? I could not find any objection or doubts here.

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I was making things easier for him. Some of his named citations might be reliable, but they also need to have some base. If the named citations(e.g.

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is a revered Brahmin among Sapt Rishis. Wiki editors should take our objections seriously and correct truthful facts on pages of Bhargava and Hemu.

1255:

right(not fully), that's why I suggested you instead using rollback power, add some time to improving articles - you have good command on language.

2106:

The other point you seem to be missing is that we use M L Bhargava for far more than just the Hemu issue. As I've said previously, the effects of

2993:

Knowledge has been made a joke by editor Sitush, who thinks himself as the wisest man on earth. Several citations 7-8, are given on talk page of

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might help us in this two subjects. Whether we have two pages or seperate information in one page, else We will require redirect page for this.

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here, you have to abide by the rules of the place. There is nothing to stop you posting your preferred version somewhere else on the web. -

1978:

If modern historians and researchers are "fully convinced" then it should be possible to find plenty of sources. Can you find them? Since

3060: 1583:- Now matter is that, it need to separate these two information, Bhargav community has mess here which also require some examples etc. - 498:. Please respect these guidelines and avoid including unnecessary content in the article—referenced or not. Thank you for your attention. 3166: 3151: 250: 1826:

particular subject? What is/was his day job? And who the heck are Reliance Publishers? Some outfit connected to Reliance Industries? -

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organisation, historians associated with them are expected to be less reliable. We certainly can't report their statements as facts.

343: 2130:. For example, we do not use Raj sources for history, we do not use works published by Gyan Publishers and we do not use the pre-Raj 675:

does not vouch for the fact that the person is in fact of the gotra. I've already provided you with a link to this aspect above, but

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has well said, regarding list you can enhance with the Wiki policy. Meantime I will check non-alive names and persons. Thanks -

650:" or something fairly similar does the job. If people want to read about Bhrigu's life, they go to the article about his life. 241: 202: 2044:

There are many more references which accept Hemu or Hem Chandra Vikramaditya and his community Dhusar Brahmins as Bhargavas.

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father is called a religions person only, as he was a Bhargava-Brahmin Purohit.This is verifiable and should be written so.

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You don't seem to be getting the message so let me spell it out for you again. All information on Knowledge must be from

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Please remove this reference as it may be true only for certain sections of the community, not the community as a whole.

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which state that Hemu and Bhargavas are Brahmins and always have been since the times of great floods, 10000 years ago.

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won't get you anywhere. Neither will rambling about pseudo-historical nonsense like "great floods, 10000 years ago".

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mean that it is rarely acceptable to use sources from within the community as if they were indisputably accurate. -

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You have to ground your arguments in policy, not by saying I am "ridiculous" etc. One thing that you should read is

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Sorry, I am probably opening a big can of worms. But this is Knowledge. What we put up here has to make sense!

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just your convictions. I suggest that you let Sitush write the text from a neutral point of view. Cheers,

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OK, I can find very little that cites Moti Lal Bhargava, regardless of which book we talk of. I have found

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has been authorised by the community for pages related to South Asian social groups, including this page.

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Part of the sanskritisation process is the propagation of the myth that they have always been brahmins.

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I am a Bhargava, I have no knowledge about Shree Durga Parameshwari of Mundkur being our Kula Devata.

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Vaishy, but you are not replying. If his father was not a Vaishy, how Hemu could be called a Vaishy

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Thanks Redtigerxyz. It is rapidly assuming the look of three days ago, which is how it should be. -

1094: 2849: 2772: 2583: 2424: 2365: 1991: 1848: 1843:, who seems to be an M. A. and D. Phil. I don't know if he is the same man being referenced here. 1596: 1500: 1485: 1432: 1428: 1383: 1360: 1261: 1164: 954: 843: 771: 668: 598: 548: 39: 2740:

This is not fair and cannot be justified.Seniors in Knowledge should take a fair decision on this.

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Tods Annals and Antiquities Part 1, p 436-439, which describe Hemu's community as Dhusar Brahmins.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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and some important matter should be on this page, like which are similar gotra and prawara's etc.

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Sitush has not replied who all have doubted the reliability of book by M.L.Bhargava, and where ?

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here - you cannot usually make up your own rules and certainly not for this particular issue. -

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is not in saptarshi, but it was in current manvantara. But Bhargav gotra is on Bhrigu's name.

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And now I've looked, I noticed that the publication year is 1934. Er, Raj stuff again? -

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I know of gotras but I can't make head nor tail of what you mean above. Please also read

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Gotras aren't castes. Gotras are exogamous whereas castes are endogamous. They are

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Examples are available at the talk page discussion that I linked earlier. One being

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queried this source above. You can't just bludgeon your way through this process. -

1692:. You need to read the notability thing that I linked and stop having a go at me. - 2979: 2854: 2754: 2429: 2245: 2241: 2127: 1733: 1729: 1318: 1033: 995: 811: 807: 767: 538: 499: 126: 2885: 2805: 2791: 2724: 2689: 2657: 2616: 2474: 2458: 2393: 2322: 2274: 2238: 2198: 2164: 2135: 2111: 1940: 1873: 1827: 1777: 1693: 1689: 1655: 1586: 1418: 1345: 1314: 1249: 1176: 1115: 1088: 1069: 1025: 1000: 947: 922: 775: 703: 660: 588: 534: 479: 413: 388: 375: 2469:

Knowledge policies. No-one is compelling you to participate here but while you

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I've got a pretty good idea of what is going on here. For that reason, I have

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Knowledge is not about "truth" or "lies" but rather about verifiability. See

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racism etc as a means of categorising and then controlling the population. -

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Oh, and I should add that many of the sources that you list are not in fact

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the matter differently here. It might be possible, for example, to say that

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says, this article is about the Brahmin Gotar, Bhargava, not the individual

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you have some good points, after digging this subject, came to know that :

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Udayar, Moppanar, Nainaar also under the comminity Called Bhargava Kulam.

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Can you find some accessible citations that would support your knowledge?

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My fight for truth on Knowledge with verifiable references will continue.

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what is this page about, the Bhargava gotra or the Bhargava community?

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article and I do not propose to go through the entire thing again here.

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I think the fundamental confusion still exists in this page between a

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anarchy prevailed then there would be no meaningful encyclopaedia. -

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Gotras aren't limited to Brahmins. People of all castes have gotras.

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There are lots of confusions or confusing statements in the article:

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be abused. Bhargavas are Brahmans and should be written like that.

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The list of names is completely unacceptable because it fails our

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believe the man to have come from the Bhargava community, but it

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needs to disclose this first. Then we could decide about it. --

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in articles (just click on that blue link and read). Thanks. -

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is mentioned as one of the saptarshi's of this manvantara and

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a long history of modernism in approach and spirituality.

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Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the

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Gotra and commnunity is different, which you explained.

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of the Knowledge community here is that bearing the name

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There are several modern writers and publications like:

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Originally, he belonged to a Brahmin family of Rewari".

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should be there, but how much is a dispute here as per

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Bhargava are Dhusar Brahmans and not Vaishya or Banias

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here. If you want to resolve a content dispute, see

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any valuable reason, support enhancement. Thanks. -

245:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2755:https://books.google.co.in/books?id=CfJ0PwAACAAJ 1688:Knowledge is not based on "truth" but rather on 138:, which aims to improve Knowledge's coverage of 2982:that support the change you want to be made. -- 2351:This discussion is basically going in circles. 2072:, who are you citing when you write above that 1550:is and its details; but I want to be sure that 1237:was not at the junction. Go through Wiki page 2916:Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2016 317:Someone revert this page's vandalism, please. 2457:I have begun fixing things. You may not like 1650:I doubt that you will be able to satisfy our 8: 3162:Start-Class India articles of Low-importance 2551:They are not enough, I need something like " 3113:Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2018 1369:and a "community" (which seems more like a 56: 3147:Knowledge articles under general sanctions 2531: 2493: 2101:to present it as an unequivocal statement. 191: 84: 1062:the link I've now already given you twice 2884:imposed a topic ban on you yesterday. - 2705:only spoiling the goodwill of Knowledge. 2652:Regarding your new source, which bit of 488:indiscriminate collection of information 2074:M.L.Bhargava has been a renowned auther 2016:Gazetteer of Alwar, 1878 AD, p 164 also 1563:Nasik Chitpavan website's page on gotra 638:Let's say we have a school named after 193: 86: 2824:Please see this verifiable citation : 2611: 2077: 2073: 1929: 1925: 1914: 3117: 593:I have gone through history of page, 7: 2078:M.L.Bhargava is a respectable author 2019:Imperial Gazetteer Vol. 3, page 286. 1114:to take a look at this situation. - 239:This article is within the scope of 132:This article is within the scope of 3005:Rishi who has many contribution to 75:It is of interest to the following 3086:Legal threats will get you blocked 667:policy. Also, like it or not, the 663:policy and in many cases also our 14: 3177:Low-importance Hinduism articles 2970: 2923: 1840:There is an M. L. Bhargava here 1216:is in his clan. So reference of 400:) 03:45, 18 November 2014 (IST) 226: 216: 195: 119: 109: 88: 57: 19: 1305:The problem of the article was 1200:Gotras aren't limited to casts. 1105:) 06:59, 19 November 2014 (IST) 460:) 03:45, 18 November 2014 (IST) 279:This article has been rated as 174:This article has been rated as 2563:" is not going to be helpful. 1093:Thanks for pointing. I think 259:Knowledge:WikiProject Hinduism 1: 3172:Start-Class Hinduism articles 3157:Low-importance India articles 2910:17:01, 11 December 2014 (UTC) 2894:11:33, 11 December 2014 (UTC) 2880:What are you doing here now? 2876:09:49, 11 December 2014 (UTC) 2860:17:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC) 2837:17:38, 10 December 2014 (UTC) 2814:14:20, 10 December 2014 (UTC) 2800:14:17, 10 December 2014 (UTC) 2785:12:58, 10 December 2014 (UTC) 2767:11:46, 10 December 2014 (UTC) 2387:11:22, 29 November 2014 (UTC) 2370:10:23, 29 November 2014 (UTC) 2347:05:08, 29 November 2014 (UTC) 2331:13:21, 28 November 2014 (UTC) 2298:13:19, 28 November 2014 (UTC) 2283:18:44, 27 November 2014 (UTC) 2265:10:48, 27 November 2014 (UTC) 2251:07:19, 27 November 2014 (UTC) 2222:04:05, 27 November 2014 (UTC) 2207:17:02, 26 November 2014 (UTC) 2188:16:58, 26 November 2014 (UTC) 2173:21:05, 25 November 2014 (UTC) 2158:04:26, 25 November 2014 (UTC) 2144:19:41, 24 November 2014 (UTC) 2120:19:28, 24 November 2014 (UTC) 2087:19:23, 24 November 2014 (UTC) 2054:14:47, 24 November 2014 (UTC) 1996:12:10, 24 November 2014 (UTC) 1974:04:08, 24 November 2014 (UTC) 1949:18:15, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1882:16:55, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1867:16:43, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1853:12:49, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1836:11:04, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1818:05:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1804:05:17, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1786:22:14, 22 November 2014 (UTC) 1758:04:25, 24 November 2014 (UTC) 1739:17:02, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1702:16:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1684:16:50, 23 November 2014 (UTC) 1664:15:29, 21 November 2014 (UTC) 1646:13:44, 21 November 2014 (UTC) 1628:05:30, 21 November 2014 (UTC) 1505:11:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC) 1479:09:49, 21 November 2014 (UTC) 1464:05:30, 21 November 2014 (UTC) 1388:00:59, 21 November 2014 (UTC) 1354:12:28, 20 November 2014 (UTC) 1328:11:20, 20 November 2014 (UTC) 1293:08:29, 20 November 2014 (UTC) 1241:I found another reference at 1185:20:21, 19 November 2014 (UTC) 1169:18:23, 19 November 2014 (UTC) 1124:15:45, 19 November 2014 (UTC) 1078:15:28, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 1064:regarding that list? We have 1056:15:21, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 1039:15:03, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 1009:14:59, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 986:14:45, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 931:14:25, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 875:14:14, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 817:14:09, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 784:13:48, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 762:13:42, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 747:13:42, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 732:13:42, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 712:12:33, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 630:11:47, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 580:11:47, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 524:11:27, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 505:11:07, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 490:, whilst all content must be 441:10:35, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 422:10:25, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 406:User:Sitush/Common#Castelists 384:09:58, 18 November 2014 (UTC) 352:13:59, 28 February 2011 (UTC) 302:Mundkur reference - Incorrect 262:Template:WikiProject Hinduism 253:and see a list of open tasks. 3090:Knowledge:Dispute resolution 2987:06:56, 3 February 2016 (UTC) 2965:04:47, 3 February 2016 (UTC) 2750:05:31, 9 December 2014 (UTC) 2733:05:07, 9 December 2014 (UTC) 2715:17:06, 8 December 2014 (UTC) 2698:15:42, 8 December 2014 (UTC) 2683:15:24, 8 December 2014 (UTC) 2666:14:52, 8 December 2014 (UTC) 2648:14:19, 8 December 2014 (UTC) 2625:14:57, 7 December 2014 (UTC) 2606:14:29, 7 December 2014 (UTC) 2588:14:25, 7 December 2014 (UTC) 2573:08:10, 7 December 2014 (UTC) 2546:07:02, 7 December 2014 (UTC) 2523:06:34, 7 December 2014 (UTC) 2508:04:08, 7 December 2014 (UTC) 2483:10:49, 4 December 2014 (UTC) 2453:10:23, 4 December 2014 (UTC) 2435:16:03, 3 December 2014 (UTC) 2402:14:32, 3 December 2014 (UTC) 1890:The Journal of Asian Studies 1717:fashion. Knowledge is not a 30:contentious topics procedure 2946:to reactivate your request. 2934:has been answered. Set the 665:biography of living persons 154:Knowledge:WikiProject India 3193: 3167:WikiProject India articles 3152:Start-Class India articles 3101:04:33, 15 April 2016 (UTC) 3069:04:00, 15 April 2016 (UTC) 3046:14:43, 13 April 2016 (UTC) 3026:14:18, 13 April 2016 (UTC) 1243:Times of India - Lifestyle 1046:Bhargava community to him. 362:This article is not about 285:project's importance scale 180:project's importance scale 157:Template:WikiProject India 3133:07:49, 17 July 2018 (UTC) 2656:do you not understand? - 2561:xxxxxxx , p.xxxx, by xxxx 2553:http://wwww.xxxxxxx.xxxxx 2212:authors have written him. 327:14:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC) 278: 211: 173: 104: 83: 1896:(3): 630–631. May 1985. 1670:What do you mean by our 1595:what is your views. -- 1233:you were wrong at this, 1028:of arrogance. That is a 44:normal editorial process 1672:notability requirements 1652:notability requirements 1060:Have you actually read 679:. Hemu, by the way, is 806:and the importance of 486:. Knowledge is not an 65:This article is rated 40:standards of behaviour 1112:asked for more people 804:what wikipedia is not 1723:significant coverage 1024:Please don't accuse 242:WikiProject Hinduism 36:purpose of Knowledge 2775:, thus unreliable. 2771:Page number? It is 2555:" and it must say " 2423:This discussion is 1771:M L Bhargava source 1713:Please behave in a 1546:I know that what a 2610:As Kautilya3 says 1924:Unknown parameter 1766:Numbered list item 1721:. If you can show 1142:concepts in a way. 737:Bania/Vaishy etc.. 71:content assessment 46:may be sanctioned. 33: 2950: 2949: 2548: 2536:comment added by 2510: 2498:comment added by 640:Swami Vivekananda 342:comment added by 299: 298: 295: 294: 291: 290: 265:Hinduism articles 190: 189: 186: 185: 135:WikiProject India 51: 50: 27: 3184: 3121: 3035:Personal attacks 2980:reliable sources 2974: 2973: 2941: 2937: 2927: 2926: 2920: 2857: 2848:Will you please 2847: 2432: 2422: 2358: 2248: 2242:reliable sources 2232: 1937: 1931: 1927: 1922: 1920: 1912: 1736: 1730:reliable sources 1712: 1623: 1620: 1617: 1614: 1608: 1605: 1602: 1599: 1590: 1545: 1489: 1459: 1456: 1453: 1450: 1444: 1441: 1438: 1435: 1422: 1364: 1325: 1288: 1285: 1282: 1279: 1273: 1270: 1267: 1264: 1253: 1092: 1036: 1023: 981: 978: 975: 972: 966: 963: 960: 957: 951: 870: 867: 864: 861: 855: 852: 849: 846: 814: 808:reliable sources 801: 677:here it is again 625: 622: 619: 616: 610: 607: 604: 601: 592: 575: 572: 569: 566: 560: 557: 554: 551: 546: 502: 477: 354: 332:Tamil Bharghavan 267: 266: 263: 260: 257: 236: 231: 230: 229: 220: 213: 212: 207: 199: 192: 162: 161: 158: 155: 152: 129: 124: 123: 122: 113: 106: 105: 100: 92: 85: 68: 62: 61: 53: 23: 16: 3192: 3191: 3187: 3186: 3185: 3183: 3182: 3181: 3137: 3136: 3135: 3115: 2978:please provide 2971: 2939: 2935: 2924: 2918: 2855: 2841: 2430: 2416: 2352: 2246: 2226: 2108:sanskritisation 1923: 1913: 1902:10.2307/2056309 1887: 1773: 1734: 1706: 1621: 1618: 1615: 1612: 1606: 1603: 1600: 1597: 1584: 1539: 1490:We know what a 1483: 1457: 1454: 1451: 1448: 1442: 1439: 1436: 1433: 1412: 1358: 1323: 1309:to individuals 1286: 1283: 1280: 1277: 1271: 1268: 1265: 1262: 1247: 1132: 1086: 1034: 1030:personal attack 1017: 979: 976: 973: 970: 964: 961: 958: 955: 945: 868: 865: 862: 859: 853: 850: 847: 844: 812: 795: 623: 620: 617: 614: 608: 605: 602: 599: 586: 573: 570: 567: 564: 558: 555: 552: 549: 532: 500: 467: 360: 337: 334: 315: 304: 264: 261: 258: 255: 254: 234:Hinduism portal 232: 227: 225: 205: 159: 156: 153: 150: 149: 125: 120: 118: 98: 69:on Knowledge's 66: 38:, any expected 28:The use of the 12: 11: 5: 3190: 3188: 3180: 3179: 3174: 3169: 3164: 3159: 3154: 3149: 3139: 3138: 3125:MAHEEP BHARGAV 3123: 3114: 3111: 3110: 3109: 3108: 3107: 3106: 3105: 3104: 3103: 3076: 3075: 3074: 3073: 3072: 3071: 3061:117.198.134.70 3051: 3050: 3049: 3048: 3029: 3028: 2990: 2989: 2948: 2947: 2928: 2917: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2898: 2897: 2896: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2853:"verifiable". 2822: 2821: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2816: 2773:self published 2752: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2702: 2701: 2700: 2670: 2669: 2668: 2635: 2634: 2633: 2632: 2631: 2630: 2629: 2628: 2627: 2527: 2526: 2525: 2489: 2488: 2487: 2486: 2485: 2413: 2412: 2411: 2410: 2409: 2408: 2407: 2406: 2405: 2404: 2319: 2318: 2317: 2316: 2315: 2314: 2313: 2312: 2311: 2310: 2309: 2308: 2307: 2306: 2305: 2304: 2303: 2302: 2301: 2300: 2123: 2122: 2103: 2102: 2099:would be wrong 2067: 2066: 2065: 2064: 2063: 2062: 2061: 2060: 2059: 2058: 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2981: 2977: 2969: 2968: 2967: 2966: 2962: 2958: 2954: 2945: 2942:parameter to 2933: 2929: 2922: 2921: 2915: 2911: 2907: 2903: 2902:Bhargavaflame 2899: 2895: 2891: 2887: 2883: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2873: 2869: 2868:Bhargavaflame 2865: 2861: 2858: 2851: 2845: 2844:Bhargavaflame 2840: 2839: 2838: 2834: 2830: 2829:Bhargavaflame 2827: 2823: 2815: 2811: 2807: 2803: 2802: 2801: 2797: 2793: 2788: 2787: 2786: 2782: 2778: 2774: 2770: 2769: 2768: 2764: 2760: 2759:Bhargavaflame 2756: 2753: 2751: 2747: 2743: 2742:Bhargavaflame 2738: 2734: 2730: 2726: 2722: 2718: 2717: 2716: 2712: 2708: 2707:Bhargavaflame 2703: 2699: 2695: 2691: 2686: 2685: 2684: 2680: 2676: 2675:Bhargavaflame 2671: 2667: 2663: 2659: 2655: 2651: 2650: 2649: 2645: 2641: 2640:Bhargavaflame 2636: 2626: 2622: 2618: 2613: 2609: 2608: 2607: 2603: 2599: 2595: 2591: 2590: 2589: 2585: 2581: 2576: 2575: 2574: 2570: 2566: 2562: 2558: 2554: 2550: 2549: 2547: 2543: 2539: 2535: 2528: 2524: 2520: 2516: 2512: 2511: 2509: 2505: 2501: 2497: 2490: 2484: 2480: 2476: 2472: 2468: 2465:etc but they 2464: 2460: 2456: 2455: 2454: 2450: 2446: 2445:Bhargavaflame 2441: 2440: 2439: 2438: 2437: 2436: 2433: 2426: 2425:going nowhere 2420: 2419:Bhargavaflame 2403: 2399: 2395: 2390: 2389: 2388: 2384: 2380: 2379:Bhargavaflame 2375: 2374: 2373: 2372: 2371: 2367: 2363: 2356: 2355:Bhargavaflame 2350: 2349: 2348: 2344: 2340: 2339:Bhargavaflame 2335: 2334: 2333: 2332: 2328: 2324: 2299: 2295: 2291: 2290:Bhargavaflame 2286: 2285: 2284: 2280: 2276: 2272: 2268: 2267: 2266: 2262: 2258: 2257:Bhargavaflame 2254: 2253: 2252: 2249: 2243: 2240: 2236: 2230: 2229:Bhargavaflame 2225: 2224: 2223: 2219: 2215: 2214:Bhargavaflame 2210: 2209: 2208: 2204: 2200: 2196: 2191: 2190: 2189: 2185: 2181: 2180:Bhargavaflame 2176: 2175: 2174: 2170: 2166: 2161: 2160: 2159: 2155: 2151: 2150:Bhargavaflame 2147: 2146: 2145: 2141: 2137: 2133: 2129: 2125: 2124: 2121: 2117: 2113: 2109: 2105: 2104: 2100: 2096: 2091: 2090: 2089: 2088: 2085: 2083: 2079: 2075: 2071: 2070:Bhargavaflame 2055: 2051: 2047: 2046:Bhargavaflame 2043: 2038: 2035: 2032: 2028: 2024: 2021: 2018: 2015: 2012: 2009: 2006: 2005: 2003: 2002: 2001: 2000: 1999: 1998: 1997: 1993: 1989: 1985: 1984:Sangh Parivar 1981: 1977: 1976: 1975: 1971: 1967: 1966:Bhargavaflame 1962: 1950: 1946: 1942: 1935: 1918: 1910: 1907: 1903: 1899: 1895: 1891: 1885: 1884: 1883: 1879: 1875: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1864: 1860: 1859:Bhargavaflame 1856: 1855: 1854: 1850: 1846: 1842: 1839: 1838: 1837: 1833: 1829: 1825: 1821: 1820: 1819: 1815: 1811: 1810:Bhargavaflame 1807: 1805: 1801: 1797: 1796:Bhargavaflame 1792: 1791: 1790: 1789: 1788: 1787: 1783: 1779: 1770: 1765: 1764: 1759: 1755: 1751: 1750:Bhargavaflame 1748:accepts that. 1746: 1740: 1737: 1731: 1728: 1724: 1720: 1716: 1710: 1709:Bhatgavaflame 1705: 1704: 1703: 1699: 1695: 1691: 1690:verifiability 1687: 1686: 1685: 1681: 1677: 1676:Bhargavaflame 1673: 1669: 1665: 1661: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1648: 1647: 1643: 1639: 1638:Bhargavaflame 1634: 1633: 1632: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1625: 1609: 1594: 1588: 1564: 1560: 1557: 1553: 1549: 1543: 1538: 1537: 1536: 1535: 1534: 1533: 1532: 1531: 1530: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1524: 1523: 1506: 1502: 1498: 1493: 1487: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1476: 1472: 1471:Bhargavaflame 1467: 1466: 1465: 1461: 1445: 1430: 1429:Bhargavaflame 1426: 1420: 1416: 1411: 1410: 1409: 1408: 1407: 1406: 1405: 1404: 1403: 1402: 1401: 1400: 1389: 1385: 1381: 1376: 1373:to me). The 1372: 1368: 1362: 1357: 1356: 1355: 1351: 1347: 1343: 1342: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1336: 1329: 1326: 1320: 1316: 1312: 1308: 1304: 1303: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1294: 1290: 1274: 1259: 1251: 1246: 1244: 1240: 1236: 1232: 1229: 1227: 1223: 1219: 1215: 1211: 1208: 1205: 1202: 1199: 1198: 1196: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1186: 1182: 1178: 1173: 1172: 1171: 1170: 1166: 1162: 1154: 1150: 1147: 1144: 1141: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1129: 1125: 1121: 1117: 1113: 1109: 1108: 1104: 1100: 1096: 1090: 1085: 1084: 1079: 1075: 1071: 1067: 1063: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1053: 1049: 1048:Bhargavaflame 1044: 1043: 1040: 1037: 1031: 1027: 1021: 1016: 1015: 1010: 1006: 1002: 997: 996:third opinion 993: 992: 991: 990: 987: 983: 967: 949: 944: 943: 932: 928: 924: 920: 919: 918: 917: 916: 915: 914: 913: 912: 911: 898: 894: 893: 892: 891: 890: 889: 888: 887: 886: 885: 876: 872: 856: 840: 839: 838: 837: 836: 835: 834: 833: 825: 824: 823: 822: 821: 820: 819: 818: 815: 810:. Thank you. 809: 805: 799: 798:Bhargavaflame 785: 781: 777: 773: 769: 765: 764: 763: 759: 755: 754:Bhargavaflame 750: 749: 748: 744: 740: 739:Bhargavaflame 735: 734: 733: 729: 725: 724:Bhargavaflame 720: 719: 713: 709: 705: 701: 696: 695: 694: 693: 687: 682: 678: 674: 670: 666: 662: 661:verifiability 658: 657: 656: 655: 649: 645: 641: 637: 636: 635: 634: 631: 627: 611: 596: 590: 585: 584: 581: 577: 561: 544: 540: 536: 531: 530: 525: 521: 517: 516:Bhargavaflame 512: 511: 510: 509: 506: 503: 497: 493: 489: 485: 481: 475: 474:Bhargavaflame 471: 466: 465: 459: 455: 450: 449: 448: 447: 442: 438: 434: 433:Bhargavaflame 429: 428: 427: 426: 423: 419: 415: 411: 407: 403: 402: 401: 399: 395: 390: 386: 385: 381: 377: 373: 369: 365: 357: 355: 353: 349: 345: 341: 331: 329: 328: 324: 320: 312: 310: 307: 301: 286: 282: 276: 273: 272: 269: 252: 248: 244: 243: 235: 224: 222: 219: 215: 214: 210: 204: 201: 198: 194: 181: 177: 171: 168: 167: 164: 147: 146: 141: 137: 136: 128: 117: 115: 112: 108: 107: 103: 97: 94: 91: 87: 82: 78: 72: 64: 60: 55: 54: 47: 45: 41: 37: 31: 25: 22: 18: 17: 3116: 2975: 2957:27.5.201.231 2955: 2951: 2943: 2932:edit request 2593: 2560: 2556: 2532:— Preceding 2494:— Preceding 2470: 2466: 2414: 2320: 2095:some sources 2094: 2068: 1932:suggested) ( 1930:|url-access= 1917:cite journal 1893: 1889: 1823: 1774: 1719:battleground 1582: 1370: 1239:Parshuramaor 1158: 1139: 1133: 1065: 896: 794: 699: 680: 672: 431:inseparable. 387: 374:. Thanks. - 361: 344:203.79.24.24 335: 316: 308: 305: 280: 240: 175: 145:project page 143: 133: 127:India portal 77:WikiProjects 26: 3018:61.2.88.181 2984:allthefoxes 2777:Bladesmulti 2598:Bladesmulti 2565:Bladesmulti 2538:27.7.194.39 2515:Bladesmulti 2500:27.7.194.39 1727:independent 1425:Netenhancer 1324:Redtigerxyz 1315:Parashurama 1099:Netenhancer 595:Netenhancer 543:Netenhancer 470:Netenhancer 454:Netenhancer 394:Netenhancer 338:—Preceding 319:75.61.70.45 67:Start-class 3141:Categories 3007:Manusmriti 2936:|answered= 2882:EdJohnston 2239:verifiable 2195:neutrality 1235:Parshurama 1130:Confusions 3010:Upnishads 2976:Not done: 2850:drop this 2654:this note 2580:Kautilya3 2559:". Just " 2362:Kautilya3 2132:James Tod 1988:Kautilya3 1928:ignored ( 1845:Kautilya3 1636:Bhargava. 1542:Kautilya3 1497:Kautilya3 1415:Kautilya3 1380:Kautilya3 1231:Kautilya3 1218:Jamadagni 1210:Jamadagni 1195:Kautilya3 1161:Kautilya3 1149:Jamadagni 772:consensus 669:consensus 313:Vandalism 42:, or any 3094:utcursch 3039:utcursch 3014:Samhitas 2999:Bhargava 2856:Philg88 2673:reasons. 2534:unsigned 2496:unsigned 2431:Philg88 2247:Philg88 2128:reliable 1735:Philg88 1307:WP:UNDUE 1140:opposite 1066:policies 1035:Philg88 900:removed. 813:Philg88 673:Bhargava 501:Philg88 496:on-topic 340:unsigned 256:Hinduism 247:Hinduism 203:Hinduism 2463:WP:NPOV 2235:neutral 1909:2056309 1556:Bhargav 1552:Bhargav 646:(sage) 541:, and 539:Philg88 492:neutral 368:WP:NPOV 283:on the 178:on the 3003:Bhrigu 2886:Sitush 2806:Sitush 2792:Sitush 2725:Sitush 2721:WP:VNT 2690:Sitush 2658:Sitush 2617:Sitush 2475:Sitush 2394:Sitush 2323:Sitush 2275:Sitush 2199:Sitush 2165:Sitush 2136:Sitush 2112:Sitush 1941:Sitush 1874:Sitush 1828:Sitush 1778:Sitush 1694:Sitush 1656:Sitush 1622:Deepak 1607:Deepak 1593:Sitush 1587:Sitush 1458:Deepak 1443:Deepak 1419:Sitush 1346:Sitush 1311:Bhrigu 1287:Deepak 1272:Deepak 1250:Sitush 1226:Sitush 1222:Bhrigu 1214:Bhrigu 1204:Bhrigu 1177:Sitush 1152:older. 1116:Sitush 1089:Sitush 1070:Sitush 1026:Sitush 1001:Sitush 980:Deepak 965:Deepak 948:Sitush 923:Sitush 869:Deepak 854:Deepak 776:Sitush 704:Sitush 648:Bhrigu 624:Deepak 609:Deepak 589:Sitush 574:Deepak 559:Deepak 535:Sitush 484:Bhrigu 480:Sitush 414:Sitush 389:Sitush 376:Sitush 372:WP:DUE 364:Bhrigu 73:scale. 2940:|ans= 2930:This 1982:is a 1980:ABISY 1906:JSTOR 1715:civil 1624:|talk 1559:Gotra 1548:Gotra 1492:gotra 1469:this. 1460:|talk 1375:gotra 1371:kulam 1367:gotra 1319:WP:RS 1289:|talk 1193:Yes. 982:|talk 871:|talk 768:WP:RS 700:likes 644:rishi 626:|talk 576:|talk 478:. As 358:Focus 151:India 140:India 96:India 3129:talk 3119:edit 3098:talk 3065:talk 3043:talk 3022:talk 3012:and 2997:and 2995:Hemu 2961:talk 2906:talk 2890:talk 2872:talk 2833:talk 2810:talk 2796:talk 2781:talk 2763:talk 2746:talk 2729:talk 2723:. - 2711:talk 2694:talk 2679:talk 2662:talk 2644:talk 2621:talk 2602:talk 2594:xxxx 2584:talk 2569:talk 2542:talk 2519:talk 2504:talk 2479:talk 2459:WP:V 2449:talk 2398:talk 2383:talk 2366:talk 2343:talk 2327:talk 2294:talk 2279:talk 2273:. - 2271:this 2261:talk 2237:and 2218:talk 2203:talk 2184:talk 2169:talk 2154:talk 2140:talk 2134:. - 2116:talk 2076:and 2050:talk 1992:talk 1970:talk 1945:talk 1934:help 1878:talk 1863:talk 1849:talk 1832:talk 1824:this 1814:talk 1800:talk 1782:talk 1754:talk 1698:talk 1680:talk 1660:talk 1642:talk 1501:talk 1475:talk 1417:and 1384:talk 1350:talk 1313:and 1220:and 1181:talk 1165:talk 1120:talk 1103:talk 1074:talk 1052:talk 1005:talk 927:talk 897:must 780:talk 758:talk 743:talk 728:talk 708:talk 686:Hemu 520:talk 494:and 472:and 458:talk 437:talk 418:talk 412:. - 398:talk 380:talk 370:and 348:talk 323:talk 2938:or 2471:are 2467:are 2082:Sam 1898:doi 1725:in 1619:jan 1604:jan 1455:jan 1440:jan 1427:or 1284:jan 1269:jan 977:jan 962:jan 866:jan 851:jan 681:not 621:jan 606:jan 571:jan 556:jan 275:Low 170:Low 3143:: 3131:) 3096:| 3092:. 3067:) 3041:| 3024:) 2963:) 2944:no 2908:) 2892:) 2874:) 2835:) 2812:) 2798:) 2783:) 2765:) 2748:) 2731:) 2713:) 2696:) 2681:) 2664:) 2646:) 2623:) 2604:) 2586:) 2571:) 2544:) 2521:) 2506:) 2481:) 2461:, 2451:) 2400:) 2385:) 2368:) 2345:) 2329:) 2296:) 2281:) 2263:) 2220:) 2205:) 2186:) 2171:) 2156:) 2142:) 2118:) 2080:? 2052:) 1994:) 1972:) 1947:) 1921:: 1919:}} 1915:{{ 1904:. 1894:44 1892:. 1880:) 1865:) 1851:) 1834:) 1816:) 1802:) 1784:) 1756:) 1700:) 1682:) 1662:) 1644:) 1626:) 1616:ha 1613:Ma 1601:ha 1598:Ma 1503:) 1477:) 1462:) 1452:ha 1449:Ma 1437:ha 1434:Ma 1386:) 1352:) 1321:. 1291:) 1281:ha 1278:Ma 1266:ha 1263:Ma 1183:) 1167:) 1122:) 1076:) 1054:) 1007:) 984:) 974:ha 971:Ma 959:ha 956:Ma 929:) 873:) 863:ha 860:Ma 848:ha 845:Ma 782:) 760:) 745:) 730:) 710:) 628:) 618:ha 615:Ma 603:ha 600:Ma 578:) 568:ha 565:Ma 553:ha 550:Ma 537:, 522:) 439:) 420:) 382:) 350:) 325:) 3127:( 3063:( 3020:( 2959:( 2904:( 2888:( 2870:( 2846:: 2842:@ 2831:( 2808:( 2794:( 2779:( 2761:( 2744:( 2727:( 2709:( 2692:( 2677:( 2660:( 2642:( 2619:( 2600:( 2582:( 2567:( 2540:( 2517:( 2502:( 2477:( 2447:( 2421:: 2417:@ 2415:* 2396:( 2381:( 2364:( 2357:: 2353:@ 2341:( 2325:( 2292:( 2277:( 2259:( 2231:: 2227:@ 2216:( 2201:( 2182:( 2167:( 2152:( 2138:( 2114:( 2048:( 1990:( 1968:( 1943:( 1936:) 1911:. 1900:: 1876:( 1861:( 1847:( 1830:( 1812:( 1798:( 1780:( 1752:( 1711:: 1707:@ 1696:( 1678:( 1658:( 1640:( 1610:( 1589:: 1585:@ 1544:: 1540:@ 1499:( 1488:: 1484:@ 1473:( 1446:( 1421:: 1413:@ 1382:( 1363:: 1359:@ 1348:( 1275:( 1252:: 1248:@ 1179:( 1163:( 1118:( 1101:( 1091:: 1087:@ 1072:( 1050:( 1022:: 1018:@ 1003:( 968:( 950:: 946:@ 925:( 857:( 800:: 796:@ 778:( 756:( 741:( 726:( 714:: 706:( 612:( 591:: 587:@ 562:( 545:: 533:@ 518:( 476:: 468:@ 456:( 435:( 416:( 396:( 378:( 346:( 321:( 287:. 182:. 148:. 79::

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