824:) 07:16, 16 November 2014 (UTC) I agree with MusikAnimal - I think the posting is disparaging to both Babin and McDonald. Also, there is no way short of a miracle that tiller54 can ever prove or disprove that McDonald's story caused Babin to lose the 1998 election - that statement by tiller54 it caused Babin to lose the 1998 election makes him look suspect with an agenda. The legal implications of these unfounded allegations all the way down the line are very serious and serves unworthy as nothing more than inuindo and he said she said. The very fact that this 21 year old person claims he was Babin's campaign manager is laughable at best and makes the rest of the story stink as some kind of "hit piece" to adversely affect the Gay community vote or FALSELY alienate Dr. Babin from a certain class of people.
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that comment is suspect in itself. I can advise anyone of my opinion to litigate if I wish- that was posted as a matter of transparency in this forum. Beyond that, you continue to push posting defamatory information about someone's contentions that have nothing to do with Dr. Babin in any way. Moreover, you stated previously that you believed that Dr. Babin lost his election bid in 1998 because of the unsubstantiated and DENIED comments, laughable... They had NO bearing on any election he has been involved in including his most recent win as a nine county US Congressman. Don't keep threating me with being blocked everytime you don't like what I say, that is so juvenile and sophomoric. The
Conressman is a good man and you seek to only taint him with libelous manufactured garbage.
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the subject post are factual or appropriate to post. The accusations are clearly based in no factual sources and are complete lies and are not the actual subject of Brian Babin as set forth in the wikipedia terms and conditions. McDonald was not and never has been Dr. Babin's campaign director or organizer and has no place in any story related to the congressman. Tiller54's continued posting of these lies is an apparent direct attack on Dr. Babin. These lies and Libel will continue to be deleted as a responsible action against the attacks brought forth by Tiller54. I encourage wikipedia editors to ban Tiller54 from posting any information on wikipedia here forward.
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however you would like to word it. No need to include the quotes and allegations. You can say it's relevant all you want, but the point is that it does not add to the reader's understanding, it only disparages the subject. As for the sources, if this received that much news coverage you surely can find a source that does not require a subscription. We of course allow subscription-based sources but in a case like this where the material is contentious it's highly preferred we make it easily verifiable. That's my two cents, but again I am not familiar with the subject at all, I just want to ensure we are conveying relevant information within the confines of policy. —
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above shot you down on the posting of your two paragraphs because they didn't think them appropriate. Then you wait two weeks after your paragraphs have been taken down by consensus and then you repost them and then attack anyone who takes them back down like its a new discussion. Shame on you!!! You are wrong and apparently vested somehow in making those libelous paragraphs stick here. You should be ashamed, you should not use
Knowledge as a hit piece for vindictive inappropriate posting. You should be ashamed of your pointed attack on gays and a freshman congressmen.
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possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment. This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article, and to material about living persons in other articles and on other pages, including talk pages.
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User- Tiller54 continues to post libel without regard. His postings are based on he said she said disparaging remarks against McDonald and the subject wiki Brian Babin. Just because there was some irresponsible reporting or articles based in lies and conjecture that are posted somewhere does not mean
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I demand a formal wikipedia inquiry and resolution to Tiller54' continued libelous assertions toward Brian Babin. The whole posting Tiller54 has posted is in no way factual or rooted in any basis for fact. Babin's campaign director during the time of the supposed McDonald claim/information was Gwen
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I dont know who you are Tiller54 but posting libelous comments of someone not directly related except by some salacious accusation means nothing. And just because some allegations go out over a news wire does not make it so or even truthful. Ive read back over these comments and how administrators
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I stand by assertions that you have an agenda. That comment by McDonald is libelous and completely unsubstantiated as a he said... she said... comment. Posting that comment as if it it was credible in any way is completely inappropriate and violates
Knowledge guidelines too. For you to keep pushing
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BLP violations. Removing it was the right thing to do. I do not think the content should be added back, but if consensus indicates otherwise, better sources are going to be needed, and the tone will need to be changed to not sound as disparaging. If you want to say McDonald's actions were the reason
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You can demand things and threaten people all you like but it won't change the fact that everything in the section is properly sourced. Your blanket refusal to accept this and your claims of "lies" and "libel" even when shown sources that clearly state what you dispute suggest that you are not here
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McDonald has been quite open about the controversy, even talking about his time working for Babin on his personal blog. McDonald's resignation quote is the only thing that's sourced to the subscription-only source so I would OK with removing that. McDonald's claim that Babin told him gays should be
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via the wayback machine. The source for McDonald's resignation quote does work, but only if you have a (paid) subscription to the Star-Telegram's archive. Finally, the
Washington Post source doesn't use McDonald's name, but it is about him and Babin (who it does mention by name). As I said earlier,
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have a place on Babin's article. Specific claims that McDonald made (that Babin said "gays should be shot") have been removed and replaced with a more neutral and general "McDonald said that Babin made disparaging remarks about gays in private". Your claims that the content is "clearly based in no
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So you've gone from calling me a liar and saying that a source with the "gays should be shot" line in doesn't exist when clearly it does to calling it "libelous and completely unsubstantiated". Well clearly it's not as the claim was published in a major newspaper. Did Babin sue McDonald for libel?
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Biographies of living persons ("BLP"s) must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Knowledge is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not
Knowledge's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the
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For the record I do appreciate working with reasonable editors/admins and other people here at Wiki. I'm new to this forum but like the premise and possibilities. I can see where there are many unutilized ways and uses of communication here yet to be realized. Libel is very offensive and in some
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I think the passage is disparaging to both Babin and McDonald. Overall I just think we're going into too much detail. I would try to state that McDonald came out, was offended Babin's position on homosexuality, which drove him to resign as campaign manager and in turn lead to Babin's defeat – or
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stating quite clearly: "Babin ran for
Congress in 1996 and 1998, losing both times after controversies over campaign contributions and the resignation of his gay campaign manager." If you'd like to contribute constructively, go ahead. If you're here to do nothing but have a tantrum and threaten
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As for the other sources, The
Washington Post and the Chronicle, for example, don't require subscriptions. Actually, I'm surprised there's as much available coverage as this. Finding online sources for a low-profile Congressional race in the mid-90s in (what was then) a safe Democratic seat is
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the sources provided are to the Dallas
Morning News, Star-Telegram, Houston Chronicle, Metro Weekly and Washington Post so I really don't think the content is "unsourced or poorly sourced" as BLP states. I am unsure though whether you mean the content is "disparaging" to Babin or to McDonald?
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for Babin's defeat, why don't we just say that? Briefly state why this is the case in a neutral tone. There's no need to go into detail about McDonald and all that negativity, this article is not about him. Do not disparage another living person when the only thing relevant is Babin's defeat.
815:
Unfortunately- There is no other way to say this about the above statement but... It is a complete lie from tiller54. Nowhere in any line anywhere does tiller54 provide a link new, old or broken that claims Babin said "all gays should be shot" from McDonald or anyone else. This is clearly a
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source states quite clearly: "In private conversations about government controversies involving gays, Babin remarked that homosexuals should be shot, according to McDonald." I will not identify myself to you or any other editor. Please familiarise yourself with the
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As for "you stated previously that you believed that Dr. Babin lost his election bid in 1998 because of the unsubstantiated and DENIED comments, laughable... They had NO bearing on any election he has been involved in",
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Let's discuss this here before any further edit warring takes place. I've only taken a cursory glance at the material so far, but the story does seem to be supported by reliable sources. –
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who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy.
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usually all but impossible. Finding something in a newspaper archive in a local library wouldn't be difficult but unfortunately I don't live in Texas (or even the US).
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Of course, it's been proposed that the line be removed anyway, but just carry on threatening people and calling them liars, why don't you?
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Pharo- FACT - Tiller54 is promoting outrageous lies and is a liar. Please advise me on how we may appeal and unseal Tiller54's identity.
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factual sources" are ludicrous given that it is in fact very clearly sourced. If you continue edit warring, you will likely be blocked.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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may be a good resource for resolving this, if need be. For now, please do not re-add the content in the same fashion as before. —
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disinformation attack upon
Conressman elect Brian Babin by tiller54. I would like tiller54 to contact me and identify himself.
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on
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but is particularly contentious and doesn't appear in any of the other sources, so we should probably remove that too.
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The source for the claim by McDonald that Babin said "homosexuals should be shot" doesn't work, but is available
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I am completely impartial to the subject and controversies, but BLP violations should be taken
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Constantly repeating the words "lies" and "libel" does not make something so.
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The nonsense above is posted by a sockpuppet of Wikiblanks - see
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and all have covered the story. As such, it most certainly
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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removed immediately and without waiting for discussion
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For that reason, this article is at increased risk of
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FINALLY- WIKIPEDIA HAS THE LAST WORD IN THIS MATTER
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1027:
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1021:
1020:
1015:
1014:
1009:
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1003:
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997:
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991:
990:
989:
988:
984:
980:
972:
968:
964:
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957:
956:
952:
948:
940:
936:
932:
927:
926:
921:
916:
913:
909:
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906:
902:
898:
892:
891:
887:
883:
875:
871:
867:
863:
859:
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847:
842:
838:
837:
836:
835:
831:
827:
823:
819:
805:
801:
797:
792:
789:
785:
782:shot appears
780:
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766:
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764:
760:
756:
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747:
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742:
741:
734:
730:
729:
724:
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712:
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699:
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691:
690:
689:
688:
684:
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672:
657:
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646:
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637:
633:
627:
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586:
580:
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573:
570:
566:
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554:
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526:
523:(assessed as
522:
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513:
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136:U.S. Congress
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117:WikiProjects
68:
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35:
28:
22:
1113:Brian Babin
858:behavioural
772:MusikAnimal
739:MusikAnimal
706:This source
1233:Categories
1220:Report bug
979:Wikiblanks
947:Wikiblanks
897:Wikiblanks
882:Wikiblanks
826:Wikiblanks
818:Wikiblanks
71:politician
1203:this tool
1196:this tool
1001:PlanetOut
312:Biography
252:Biography
229:person(s)
85:vandalism
40:libellous
1209:Cheers.—
1045:Tiller54
1034:are all
995:The Hill
963:Tiller54
931:Tiller54
925:The Hill
866:Tiller54
796:Tiller54
788:Muboshgu
755:Tiller54
679:Muboshgu
607:Politics
598:politics
553:American
548:Politics
81:trolling
1117:my edit
862:conduct
723:serious
634:on the
483:on the
216:on the
107:C-class
715:WP:BLP
449:Alerts
113:scale.
77:biased
375:Texas
1086:talk
1065:talk
1049:talk
1040:does
1028:and
983:talk
967:talk
951:talk
935:talk
920:Here
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886:talk
870:talk
860:and
841:This
830:talk
822:talk
800:talk
784:here
759:talk
750:here
731:The
683:talk
301:and
1177:RfC
1147:to
1131:to
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626:Low
475:Low
208:Low
29:BLP
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