Talk:Brig - Knowledge (XXG)

71: 53: 2429:

context from the commonly used one is a bit irrelevant - in the context of sailing vessel rigs, ship does, and always will have, a specific meaning. No one is arguing against the idea that in normal usage out of this context it can be, and indeed is, used to describe just about anything that floats. But this is an article about a sailing rig that is distinct from a ship rig. The term 'full-rigged-ship' is a fairly modern term that tries to get around the fact that the word ship has obviously come to be applied to anything due to the ending of the age of sail - in general usage. As soon as you get into talking about rigs though, it is as I have said. So

1557:

the rig first and foremost, and only by extension to the whole vessel carrying that rig. I wouldn't have any issues with someone writing a sentence along these lines: 'the squadron consisted of 8 ships, of which 3 were ships of the line, 2 were frigates and the remainder brigs.' But since the article is specifically about the rig, as to consider it to be about a complete vessel makes no real sense, including the word ship in the title just confuses things completely. The article is not about a ship, or vessel: it is about a type of rig. I don't think any disambiguation is needed in the first place, but to me

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mock up of the rigging on land and call it "a brig" (as opposed to "a brig's rigging") -- something that most would find odd -- and if a brig was de-masted in a fight one would not usually stop referring to her as a brig until such time as the damage was repaired. I suspect for clarity one needs to think of brig as a class of vessel rigged in a certain way not as a type of rigging. --

2246:

talking about the rig of a Brig, or a Ketch, or a Schooner, or a Xebec.... to throw in the word ship gives you a contradiction. Do you mean Brig (etc), or Ship? Thus Brig (ship) is a really bad title. The category 'Two-masted ships' is badly named, however - Knowledge (XXG) should strive to achieve at least some degree of technical accuracy, despite not being a technical publication.

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and it looks as though he has been quoted out of context (I believe he was talking about the multi-masted schooners - but I do not have a copy to hand at the moment). There are ample books on maritime history, written by authors with significant credentials. That should be the reference base for much

2268:

We should certainly strive for accuracy. But in the choice of an article title, we generally follow current English usage, and it's sometimes illogical but the policy is that Knowledge (XXG) still follows current usage and in particular doesn't try to reform the current language. (That's why I headed

601:

Am finding conflicting info regarding the use of Brig Unicorn from St. Lucia and its appearances in Pirates of the Caribbean. It's being marketed on various St Lucia websites and elsewhere as being the Black Pearl in at least the first film (and with appearances as other ships in the other 2 films).

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All the sources I'm seeing are saying that to be a brig both sails must be square not as the current article says "at least one". I think the modern usage takes precedence and its not as modern as you might think because I found a LOC ref to a brig George Washington had and they say that at that time

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The difference between a Brig and a Brigantine is in the mainsail. A brig has a square-rigged mainsail, while the Brigantine had a fore-and-aft rigged mainsail. This fore-and-aft mainsail was identical to that of a gaff rigged schooner (at the time, bermuda rigged schooners did not yet exist). It is

2957:

In this article there the World's one of most famous brigs, Russian brig "Mercury" wasn't mentioned by even couple of words! In those battle in 1829 those Russian brig "Mercury" (armed with 18 light guns) had against 2 line battleships (flagman and vice-flagman, 90 and 120 guns each by Turkish data)

2613:

This also happens to be the status quo. I would suggest that every dictionary I have consulted has the sailing vessel as the primary meaning, and that I'd be interested to hear of a counter argument that argues powerfully against the dictionary usage - all I hear at the moment is personal opinion.

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In situations such as this, in which the title of an article refers to two closely-related but separate objects (in this case a class of vessel and a system of rigging) the title is usually disambiguated with a term that refers not to either type of object, but to a subject category that covers both

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it is brig rigged - hence it is the rig that is the important thing here. So there is no possible way you can split the article into two. Because the term brig is so intractably related to the rig itself, saying Brig (ship) doesn't work - do you see? So in an attempt to clarify my point about as far

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to move as proposed. The discussion makes clear that the proposed move is not correct. However the discussion raises the issue of what is the primary use of brig? That question was raised but not given, in my opinion, a fair hearing. So if someone wants to raise that as a possible rename to some

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It is hard to understand what you are saying. There are references provided concerning the rigging if you take issue with them provide alternative references backing your position. The Lady Washington (recreation) is a brig as shown on her own article page and if one follows the external link to her

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I don't think these articles should be merged, while the brig evolved from the brigantine they had seperate histories after that and to try and weave them together into one article would confuse the reader. When these articles were both small that might have made sense, but I think this article can

2245:

The point is, in modern casual usage, the word 'ship' is amorphous - not just modern, but throughout history. However, in the specific context of rigs, ship takes on a very particular meaning. So whilst in casual speech you might refer to any kind of vessel larger than a boat as a ship, if you are

1647:

A vessel becomes a brig by virtue of being brig rigged. It is completely possible to turn that very same vessel, with the minimum of effort, into a brigatine, simply by altering the rig. So yes, the vessel as a whole is called a brig, but if you were to change the rig it would become whatever that

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Thing is, though, this article isn't about a ship, putting aside whether the word ship should be applied to a brig. It is about the sailing rig. The only demands the brig rig places on a hull is that it be of a sufficient size for it. Beyond that the hull is irrelevant, so the term brig applies to

1305:

We don't count occurrences as a means of determining what is a primary subject. If we did, the total number of brigs, current and historical would far outnumber the number of naval military prisons (try looking at the number of links within Wiki?)- but I wouldn't dream of using such an irrelevant

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No one is disputing that the word "ship" is largely synonymous with the word "vessel", but ship has another meaning, which is a technical distinction from "brig", and so making the article name "Brig (ship)" is nonsense. There is a technical function to an encyclopaedia that is not well served by

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The first meaning in the OED for brig is "a. A vessel" given that definition then the statement "A vessel with two masts square-rigged like a ship's fore- and main-masts," is internally consistent with the rest of the entry. It is clearly more than rigging: If that was all it was one could call a

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wrong. As wrong as the whole infobox: Place of origin is not Mediterranean - might be Atlantik, might be Chanal. Weight, length and crews are nonsens, brigs are only specyfied on their rigg: if you'll build tomorrow a 100-m-2-mast-square-rigged ship, it will aswell be a brig. Please, change these

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I respect your knowledge on this subject. From what you say, it seems the word "brig" can describe two separate things: A type of rigging configuration, and a type of ship (this definition is also clear in the article). To clear this problem up, we'll need to split this article into two separate

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If it absolutely had to have a disambiguator (which I do not agree with), 'sailing rig' would be vastly better than 'ship', since the former is exactly what the article is about, and the latter is exactly what the article is not about. Disagreeing that the word ship has a meaning in a different

1130:- A brig is not a brigantine as, judging by the comments above, most people are aware. Nor is it a 'ship'. Brig as a sailing vessel is, in my opinion, the primary meaning. I propose therefore, that this article is renamed 'brig' with hatnotes to 'brig (guardhouse)' and 'brig (disambiguation)'.-- 1198:

the sailing vessel is the primary topic (as it has been for years) then it needs no parenthesis, and a hatnote at the top of the article directing readers to the DAB page is sufficient. That's where we were before you moved the articles around without any consensus.

1700:. They are both rigs, and both makes of car, but neither title makes any sense at all. Ship has multiple meanings whereas Audi does not, but the alternative meanings don't make any sense in this context. Hopefully now you can see where I'm coming from on this one. 1258:

Of course it's my opinion. Why would I promote someone else's opinion? Let me put it a different way: If you were to count the number of brigs in use around the world, what number of them would be military prisons, and what number of them would be sailing vessels?

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My raising a formal proposal for such a move above is intended to promote such discussion. I think it would have been better to just close the messy original nomination and open a fresh one, but I felt I was too involved to do this, and nobody else took my hints.

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has the nautical vessel "brig" as the first and primary meaning. "Brig" as a naval prison is a chiefly US term. I'd be interested to hear what Websters says, but I don't have a copy. Wiktionary agrees with the OED, that the vessel type is the primary meaning.

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1774 there was already a common distinction between Brig and Brigantine. I'm going to change this if I find historical usage that indicates that at one point a ship could be a brig with just one square sail I'll note it in a historical perspective segment.--

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Then the article needs to be rewritten from the start because it says, "A brig is a sailing vessel with two square-rigged masts." A sailing vessel, which is a ship, ship being "the modern, common usage of the word.," rather than "A brig is a sailing rig."

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needs no disambiguation, and the naming convention was correct in the first place. Third, the moving of this article was under discussion, with an obvious consensus against when InternetMeme made the move. This now needs an admin to undo the changes.

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seems to be the sense in which Knowledge (XXG) has mostly used the term to date, for example in the category names I listed above, and it's the sense in which I tend to use the term, with some exceptions... A submarine of any size is a

1358:

I'm going to offer no evidence regarding primary meaning, but others are welcome to. If the primary meaning is the ship or rig, then we need do nothing. If it's anything else, then we still need to disambiguate this article title.

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my understanding that square sails needed more man to handle than fore-and-aft sails (I don't have a source ready, but will see if I can find a credible one). So while the second quote is correct, the first one is really odd.

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was a very technical term that described a particular vessel with three or more masts. By virtue of this old definition, virtually no vessels today are ships—they have no masts, as they are powered by diesel-electric motors.

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Essentially, the article is based on whatever can be found on the internet, with little consideration for the level of expertise that the website operator might have in the subject. There is only one book listed, written by

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Brigantine is different in having main mast full or partetly fore-and-aft sail rigged. That this is not only my opinion and aswell not based on different definitions in engl. or german did show me aswell your own article

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Not really as few if any brigs are built today and as the OED says: "A vessel with two masts square-rigged like a ship's fore- and main-masts," so dabbing it with an extension (ship) would make the name confusing. --

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herself) is a tangible, definite thing. However, she is a brig (ignore the term sloop here, it is a Royal Navy designation bearing no relation to the sloop rig) because she is so rigged. Now, if we contrast her with

322: 144: 1149:- Hey guys, sorry about the mistake. My only intention was to separate out the two different items ("Brig" as in "ship" and "brig" as in "prison"). According to the lead section of this article, a brig is indeed a 523:

I alphabetized the list of brigs. Removing the Mary Celeste, as the painting on her page makes clear that she was a brigantine. Chrono would likely be a better order than alpha, but I wasn't quite up for that. --

1664:. I have no real objection to someone referring to her in her article as a ship when referring to the vessel as a whole, because this is modern, common usage of the word, as has been said, and the subject (ie 1593:

However, this article refers to many, many specific ships, all of them "brigs". If it was about the sailing rig, would these be "ships which used a brig sailing rig" rather than just calling them brigs?

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of Ottoman Empire, Russian brig fatally damaged both of them, demanding Turkish ships to lie down on the drift, and then escaped. Nobody couldn't believe in this until Ottoman side confirmed the fact.

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Many people (usually via Star Trek) know "brig" as "onboard prison" who do not know what sort of ship a brig(ship) is. In these days of diesel power, is the sort of sailing ship now a dominant meaning?

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Is the difference the presence of a square rigged main course in addition to the gaff-rigged spanker on the brig vs. the hermaphrodite's main course being gaff-rigged and therefore 'not' technically a

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If you're going to pull out the OED, it's best not to skip the first, 1-a, definition in favor of the one that supports your argument: "A large sea-going vessel (opposed to a boat)" - simple as that.

779:(two masts, only the forward one square rigged). The technical distinction is important, and thoroughly encyclopaedic. I'm not saying both articles couldn't use a re-write to improve quality, though. 500:

Just looking over the article, I would say expanding the introduction and adding an infobox should be enough to move this up to "B class" status. For now I still think it is a "Start-class". Cheers--

610:). If someone can shed some light if they know more and update both this page with the Unicorn's participation as well as adding it to the appropriate PotC / Black Pearl page, that would be swell. 2325:

This seems to be getting out of hand. Of course the word ship has evolved to mean any large ocean going vessel (too large to be carried on another, I believe) but in sailing circles the word 'ship'

1275:

Utterly irrelevant. Show me a source (dictionary, encyclopaedia, thesaurus) that makes the military prison the primary meaning, and I'll show you a hundred that put it the other way round.

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had on this talk page and reccommended that I request they classify it. If it has areas that need to be improved or are missing I hope they will list them here after their review is done.--

3424:

The term "Weight" in the info box is meaningless. The term should be "Tons burthen", and the measurement is volumetric with respect to the cargo capacity. The measure of burthen was

1831:

AFAIK, brig is used for naval prisons, not those of the army or air force, at least in the US. So I think your case to move the article is even weaker than you originally thought.--

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new rig makes it. I may not be making my point very clear, in which case I apologise. A vessel that is brig rigged is a brig, and anything else is not, but a vessel is only a brig

919:, these are two distinct topics, both correctly named, and this appears to be a merge request rather than a move and proposer's other actions seem questionable too. Clean up and 3075:

as a source. This very source also fails to note the difference between cutters and sloops (at the linked page); so it may not be the best source nautical correct information.

2405:

needs to be considered. Tall ship enthusiasts may wish to impose their meaning on the general public, but we don't need to go along with them, and in fact our policy is not to.

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It depends soley on whether Knowledge (XXG) is supposed to use current English definitions for article titles. If it is, then no discussion is needed: a Brig is simply a ship.

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I see what you mean, but my resoning was purely anecdotal. I've heard the term 'brig' used many times, and I've never heard it in reference to a ship (I'm not from the US).

3449:(2) The omission of the collier brigs that served the North Sea coast of the UK is quite surprising. The article is generally very light on merchant vessels of this type. 1190:

dumbing down article names. In any case, in the lead section, "Merchant ship" is not synonymous with "ship", and Martocticvs' point stands. The article naming rules at

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I'm not sure I see a major problem: yes, the category is badly named (anyone fancy changing all those ship categories to "vessel"?!), and yes, the distinction between

2112:

to describe a vessel without regard for of its number of masts. Any vessel bigger than a boat is a ship. The question is, in this article, should we be using the term

2467:. This is a general encyclopedia, and article titles are selected to be recognisable to the layperson as well as to the expert. No expert will be misled by the title 199: 1194:

are quite clear - "If the topic of the article is the primary topic (or only topic) for a desired title, then the article can take that title without modification"

957:. Firstly, a brig is distinct from a ship in technical terms (as ship has three square rigged masts), so the new title is a nonsense in technical terms. Second, 2910:(and is thus a brig). Confusingly perhaps, a sloop-of-war is not sloop-rigged, but is instead defined by having an officer below the rank of captain in command. 3533: 1900:

The primary meaning (according to every dictionary I can find) is the sailing vessel, and according to our own rules, that means the article should be entitled

1485:

describes any large vessel. It doesn't matter when it was built; it doesn't matter what kind of masts it has: A Brig is a large vessel, and is therefore a ship.

2169:

at all it would be better to use it in the more general sense, but it may be best avoided. Perhaps we should have a later section that contrasts the rig to a

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own internet homepage it states the same thing. Remember within Knowledge (XXG) any claims you wish to make must have references to third-party experts.--

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What's going on? A brig and a brigantine are not the same thing (technically quite distinct, in fact). Why all the moves, and where is the discussion?

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In your opinion. My dictionary doesn't agree with you, nor do the first three internet dictionaries I pulled off Google, including Websters -

2401:, either because there's another primary meaning or because currently there is no primary meaning, what's the best disambiguator? And I think 2152:(and some surprisingly small yachts do). These latter contexts tend to be formal and even affected speech, including humour and even ridicule. 1810:

Vessel classes and rigging systems are both topics that are within the field of sailing, so in this case, I would nominate the article title:

976:

Yes, there's some cleaning up to do, and this particular move proposal isn't helping IMO. Closing it would be a step towards cleaning up IMO.

923:, but at best proposer simply does not know what they are talking about, neither with respect to sailing rigs nor Knowledge (XXG) procedures. 174: 3071: 660:

The brig is also the title of the 19th episode, 3rd season, of the tv series Lost. The main event of the episode takes place inside a brig.

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One might as well argue that—technically speaking—computers aren't manufactured, because they aren't made by hand. The meaning of the word

2588:

If and when a consensus forms to rename this, then there'll be some basis to apply the principle more widely, such as in this discussion.

2360:). We should strive to ensure that the article explains the technical distinction clearly for the benefit of readers. That's why I made 3168: 901: 91: 3344:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

3082: 2531: 2299: 3106: 3041:(...) "that the sails, being smaller and more numerous, are more easily managed, and require fewer men or 'hands' to work them." 2996:

The following is a usefull diagram to show the different two masted vessels rigging plans, in relation to their classicifaction.

2839:

In sailing, a full-rigged brig is a vessel with two square rigged masts (fore and main). The main mast of a brig is the aft one.

2076:

I'm guessing you are right... but before basing any decisions on this I'd like to consider evidence from reliable sources. This

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that are in context of a two-masted square-rigged sailing vessel, but which now link (via a redirect) to a disambiguation page.

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Good questions. Let's close this unhelpful RM and set up a neat discussion on whether the rig is really the primary meaning of

738:". Does "brig" mean one thing in England and another thing in USA? Can someone who knows about ships' rigging please comment? 33: 1737: 1460: 1419: 95: 920: 348: 78: 58: 485:

Were ships converted between brig and brigantine rigs with any frequency? If not, I don't think a merge is called for. --

2368:

at the top of this section. Nevertheless, if you can think of a better way of doing it, please go ahead and change it.

1021:- (edit conflict) why is this article now called Brig (ship)?? That's a hideous title, and technical self-contradictory. 896:

here, which is not a requested move at all. The removal of edit history required by the requested move is against policy

711:— Both articles describe the same thing, except for a small paragraph that can be moved to the article "Military Prison" 3409: 3283: 3188: 3178: 2980: 1853:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20120425050927/http://www.texasnavy.com/History/General/19th_Century_Nautical_Glossary.pdf

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while the brigantine has one or more square sails on the main topmast, above a gaff rigged main-course, or "spanker".

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The hermaphrodite brig is distinguished from a brigantine in having exclusively fore-and-aft sails on the mainmast,

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How'd the transition get made from brig to military prison, etymologically speaking? Probably relevant here, innit?

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Agree that a simple revert (but leaving a redir) is helpful at this stage. No significant history at target. Done.

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retains its old meaning. Is it really such a problem to avoid the use of the word in articles such as this one?--

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070301112328/http://freespace.virgin.net:80/r.cadwalader/maritime/era/fleetwin.htm

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rig really the place to split hairs like this? In normal conversation, even among sail enthusiasts, a brig is a

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the nominator made out of process moves to take away an existing article into limbospace to seemingly hide it (

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070912133014/http://www.mariner.org/exploration/index.php?type=shiptype&id=3

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are there to highlight the technical difference between a brig and a ship (for an example, see the infobox of

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being deleted first. Please can we go back to the (correct) previous naming conventions as soon as possible.

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reached that a move is required, there's no problem deciding on a disambiguator, because we don't need one.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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have the article under the "Brig" namespace with a link at the top "this is an article about ships not

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070626195143/http://www.tallships.org/document.asp?cat=693&doc=6823

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Hey, this is an excellent idea. I wish you'd done this long ago, before I caused all that kerfuffle!

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A ship is a large vessel that floats on water. (according to my most valuable reference (wikipedia))

2223:, and that she's a very substantial vessel. But the cited newspaper account of the time calls her a 21: 3054:(...) They were replaced in commercial traffic by gaffsail schooners (which needed fewer personnel) 3008: 2913:

Unfortunately I'm pressed for time; if you give me a few days I'll improve the relevant articles.

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The move was made while a discussion was in progress on the subject of a similar move requested by

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is technically perverse, since one of the vessels that a brig is not, in a technical sense, is a

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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The primary meaning of the word is the ship type. The hatnote covers the situation adequately.

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I would not have a problem with, if there was to be consensus that a disambiguator is needed;

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now stand on its own and perhaps the brigantine article should be cleaned up and expanded.--

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To improve maneuverability, the mainmast carries a small (gaff rigged) fore-and-aft sail.

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My main concern here is, if we do move this article, where to? Some other possibilities:

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The town has a wiki-page moving last suggested formulation to top of article suggeston.--

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motors. Some do, mainly ferries, cruise ships, icebreakers and conventional submarines.

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as a sailing vessel is historical. These days a brig is far more likely to be a prison.

869:

most stringently; a brig is not a brigantine, or vice-versa. Hence the different names.

3351:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 3225:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 3102: 2847: 2506: 2397:

But the practical question is, if we decide we do need to disambiguate this meaning of

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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is one that crops up regularly. It's worth noting however, that some of the links to

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In the narrow technical field of sailing rigs, a brig is distinct from a three-masted

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https://web.archive.org/web/20101228161737/http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/rigs.html

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https://web.archive.org/web/20101228161737/http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/rigs.html

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is one I've sometimes seen authorities use when comparing rigs, but not consistently.

1945: 1307: 1276: 1245: 1200: 1094: 1076: 963: 853: 841: 780: 758: 614: 86:-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other articles, please 3468:

Teacher's Guide for teaching a history class and setting various tasks for students.

2907: 2720: 2674: 2640: 2589: 2476: 2411: 2365: 2307: 2228: 2092: 2054: 2020: 1976: 1960: 1750: 1400: 1112: 1036: 1003: 977: 924: 625: 572:

So of course aswell the Lady Washington is no brig, but brigantine and her foto is

421: 116: 2611:

If "Brig" as used here is the primary meaning, then we do not, as I understand it.

2530:, in that the main problem there is that the subcategories include, for example, 1766:, solution in search of a problem, there's nothing wrong with the current title ( 1242: 2999:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Ship_Rigging_differences_in_schematic_view.png

2434: 2389: 2330: 2187: 1933: 1912: 1886: 1693: 1558: 1330: 1171:, but given that the lead section of this article already refers to a brig as a 1131: 946: 687: 409: 352: 3163:

http://freespace.virgin.net/r.cadwalader/maritime/era/fleetwin.htm#topfleetwing

3357:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3231:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2903: 2896: 2888: 2866: 2817: 2501:

PS And, as has been said above, the same arguments also apply to the names of

1239: 816: 733: 708: 547: 383: 3192: 3182: 2567:

as an article title is important, then surely you should propose a rename of

2563:. My suggestion would be, if others think that the argument above rejecting 525: 486: 314: 3329:

http://www.texasnavy.com/History/General/19th_Century_Nautical_Glossary.pdf

538:

Sorry, my English is very bad. I hope, you'll nevertheless understand me.

94:. All interested editors are welcome. To use this banner, please see the 2824:, there seems to be a conflict about how the mainmast should be rigged. 2211: 2162: 2015:

is. It's probably too long-winded for this article at all, let alone the

1889:. This move needs to be reverted immediately for the following reasons: 1379:. Even worse, and makes it sound like it could include smaller sailboats. 2962: 1236: 637:

Apparently the use of these vessels as prison ships led to the use; see

405: 1791:

is very commonly used to describe a military prison, and a town, etc.

2183: 2182:

in modern usage seems ill-defined. Are three-masted rigs such as the

2007:

to the already overly long lead paragraph. This is more about what a

2769:

I'm tired and confused. will someone do this? I'm also lazy today..

2306:, of which all of these, directly or indirectly, are subcategories? 671:

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.

3339:

http://www.mariner.org/exploration/index.php?type=shiptype&id=3

1787:. It's already been demonstrated that there is a problem: The term 639:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=brig&searchmode=none

157: 133: 1847:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.

606:

said that the brig played a different role in the movie (at least

1692:

was ship-rigged. In other words, it is all about the rig, and so

1684:-class - the only thing that made them different was their rig - 1351:, and that there's no better disambiguator for this article than 852:; the differences in rigging are very significant to the sailor. 559:

is a principally fore-and-aft rig with a square rigged foremast,

436:

There are more articles named brig so went with other uses tag.--

3302: 3128: 2884: 2821: 2670: 2542:(on the grounds that two-masted vessels allegedly aren't ships). 2386:

in sailing circles the word 'ship' still retains its old meaning

2353: 2345: 1941: 1937: 1925: 1908: 1901: 1882: 1767: 1481:

I think you're missing the point. The current usage of the word

1090: 991: 958: 950: 942: 727: 704: 83: 3319:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/VC/visitor_info/quiz/ship.htm

3153:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/VC/visitor_info/quiz/ship.htm

2954:

Well, how typical for Americans to forget about us once again.

2210:

As an example of this problem, see the article on the 338-foot

2205:

has three or more masts. I suspect it depends on the authority.

603: 15: 3470:

A scuba diving site that has some information about wrecks. (

3481:

A glossary put together for the website for the Texas Navies

3198:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

2629:

Exactly. Until and unless evidence is presented and a rough

2067:

It seems to me that a couple of hundred years ago, the word

1347:

This assumes that there is currently no primary meaning for

797:

I obeyed the move request, then reverted it and queried it.

460:

This info is all in the segment "Development of the brig".--

313: 198: 1561:

is absolutely the worst possible title that could be used.

1192:

Knowledge (XXG):Article_titles#Precision_and_disambiguation

1111:, and if not, how to best disambiguate. No change of vote. 1089:

Of course there's also the issue that about 1500 links for

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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http://www.tallships.org/document.asp?cat=693&doc=6823

3139:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

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refers to the whole ship, not just its distinguishing rig.

1369:. My second choice, but just doesn't feel right. The term 1315: 1298: 1284: 1268: 1253: 1230: 1208: 1184: 1139: 1120: 1102: 1084: 1063: 1044: 1030: 1011: 985: 971: 932: 909: 878: 861: 844: 832: 806: 788: 766: 747: 720: 699: 649: 632: 591: 581: 562:

as opposed to a brig which is square rigged on both masts.

528: 513: 504: 489: 479: 464: 455: 440: 431: 372: 363: 2609:

So the question is: Do we need a disambiguator at all?

1676:, a ship-sloop, perhaps things will be a little clearer. 541:

What you describe is no Brig, it" a Brigantine: Brig has

355:

check the work and he removed the stub class rating that

2116:

in the historical sense, or should we be using the term

1035:

Part of the general mess. Getting worse. Hang in there!

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These were added and Looper5920 upgraded class to B.--

351:

page, made additions and destubbed the article. I had

2538:

I think it's unlikely that we'll then remove it from

2165:. In the article lead, and title, if we use the word 1975:

But see above for a formal proposal to reinstate it.

2437:

I will never agree with because it is simply wrong.

577:

misstakes, before no-sailors will begin to lough. --

343:

Needs to be reviewed by Military history WikiProject

211:

This article has been checked against the following

3361:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3235:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2410:See above for a formal proposal along these lines. 2193:s? There is a sense in which they are not, in that 296: 210: 1680:shared the same hull design as the vessels of the 1630:, which would describe what you're talking about. 400:The target article does not exist. Suggest adding 2144:, and in some contexts a vessel of any size is a 2459:That's an excellent summary of the case against 1932:This move requires an admin, since the article 1163:Also, I have no opinion on whether a brig is a 840:; both articles state that they are distinct. 3347:This message was posted before February 2018. 3221:This message was posted before February 2018. 641:should we make a note of this in the article? 2294:. But glad that you see the issue. How about 1897:, the consensus of which was against any move 1506:has changed, just as the meaning of the word 771:The articles correctly distinguish between a 8: 3451:May add more to this list on further study. 2963:http://en.wikipedia.org/Russian_brig_Mercury 2475:s belongs in the article, not in the title. 2087:P.S. but I should have said, few ships have 1653:as I can, let's take the following example. 420:if and when it does (assuming it's a town). 357:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history 183:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history 3466:(3)The references for this article include: 2201:, and another in which they are, in that a 2148:, for example if it carries a cat it's the 1289:It's not even remotely utterly irrelevant. 3193:http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/rigs.html 3183:http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/rigs.html 2178:But even in this technical sense the word 2037:and related categories and articles. Note 393:redirects here, for an alternate use see: 293: 207: 128: 47: 3301:I have just modified 3 external links on 3127:I have just modified 4 external links on 2219:. Note that we disambiguate this article 1623:, which would describe the type of ship. 596: 446:Must have two square sails to be a brig. 163:This article is within the scope of the 1924:there are now upwards of 1500 links to 130: 49: 19: 775:(two masts, both square rigged) and a 690:, feel free to open a new discussion. 602:The official unofficial PotC website 173:. To use this banner, please see the 3210:to let others know (documentation at 186:Template:WikiProject Military history 7: 3534:Maritime warfare task force articles 2108:Nevertheless, today we use the word 2045:. Is the lead of the article on the 1093:now route to a disambiguation page. 1002:(which I've just added to the DAB). 732:They are not to be confused with a 597:Brig Unicorn = PotC's "Black Pearl"? 76:This article is within the scope of 543:both masts full square-sail-rigged! 38:It is of interest to the following 3103:Talk:Sail-plan#Brig and Brigantine 2463:so far, and it lacks any basis in 2161:English, I think that question is 2005:by virtue of only having two masts 14: 3529:B-Class maritime warfare articles 3524:B-Class military history articles 3305:. Please take a moment to review 3131:. Please take a moment to review 2540:Category:Ships by number of masts 2532:Category:Ships by number of masts 2300:Category:Ships by number of masts 2286:With that in mind, disagree that 2019:, let alone the first paragraph. 1995:I'm not at all comfortable about 1936:cannot be moved straight back to 1399:Interested in other suggestions. 349:Knowledge (XXG):Most wanted stubs 104:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Ships 2812:If you read the descriptions on 2534:, and whatever we end up naming 1696:reads to me exactly the same as 270: 259: 248: 237: 226: 156: 132: 115: 69: 51: 20: 3317:Corrected formatting/usage for 2465:official Knowledge (XXG) policy 1217:The prioritization of the word 1: 3461:23:22, 26 February 2021 (UTC) 3438:21:18, 22 December 2018 (UTC) 3091:17:52, 16 November 2013 (UTC) 3028:article is self-contradicting 2961:See for brig "Mercury" here: 2923:10:44, 31 December 2010 (UTC) 2879:05:10, 31 December 2010 (UTC) 2860:14:17, 30 December 2010 (UTC) 2800:02:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 2779:22:41, 27 December 2010 (UTC) 2753:16:13, 27 December 2010 (UTC) 2729:09:04, 27 December 2010 (UTC) 2701:03:19, 27 December 2010 (UTC) 2683:22:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2664:21:26, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2649:20:05, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2624:14:46, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2598:20:22, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2485:14:37, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2447:12:55, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2420:10:45, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2378:10:21, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2339:09:15, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2316:21:11, 25 December 2010 (UTC) 2256:20:14, 25 December 2010 (UTC) 2237:19:04, 25 December 2010 (UTC) 2130:16:30, 25 December 2010 (UTC) 2101:11:35, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 2063:09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC) 2029:05:33, 25 December 2010 (UTC) 1985:10:48, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 1969:21:11, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1954:20:03, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1869:20:53, 29 December 2010 (UTC) 1841:20:11, 29 December 2010 (UTC) 1827:16:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC) 1801:16:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC) 1780:08:02, 29 December 2010 (UTC) 1759:07:57, 29 December 2010 (UTC) 1742:10:48, 29 December 2010 (UTC) 1725:21:41, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1710:21:30, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1642:19:22, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1604:20:09, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1571:17:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1534:17:39, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1520:17:30, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1465:10:12, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1442:01:17, 28 December 2010 (UTC) 1424:20:56, 27 December 2010 (UTC) 1409:10:41, 26 December 2010 (UTC) 1316:20:03, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1299:19:56, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1285:19:34, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1269:19:27, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1254:19:14, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1231:19:02, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1209:18:36, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1185:18:24, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1140:17:18, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1121:21:34, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1103:17:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1085:17:05, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1064:16:55, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1045:20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1031:16:52, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 1012:20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 990:Not quite that simple... See 986:20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 972:16:49, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 933:10:03, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 910:05:49, 24 December 2010 (UTC) 879:23:34, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 862:22:45, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 845:13:17, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 833:12:47, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 807:11:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 789:15:06, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 767:11:35, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 748:11:42, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 721:09:51, 23 December 2010 (UTC) 700:03:17, 31 December 2010 (UTC) 3289:12:59, 8 November 2016 (UTC) 2945:02:38, 15 January 2011 (UTC) 736:which has different rigging. 650:23:15, 12 October 2007 (UTC) 514:20:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 505:19:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 480:18:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 465:18:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 456:01:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 441:16:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 432:16:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 373:20:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 364:16:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC) 166:Military history WikiProject 3519:All WikiProject Ships pages 3428:, usually abbreviated "bm". 3115:13:08, 9 January 2016 (UTC) 3021:14:16, 7 October 2012 (UTC) 2985:07:05, 26 August 2012 (UTC) 2526:They are weakest regarding 2227:. This is not an accident! 811:At 09:46, 23 December 2010 633:13:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC) 368:Assessment was made below-- 323:Maritime warfare task force 82:, a project to improve all 3550: 3378:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3298:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3252:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3124:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3045:is in contradiction with: 2559:But they're strongest for 1904:without any disambiguation 1395:. The worst of all worlds. 404:This article is about the 231:Referencing and citation: 107:Template:WikiProject Ships 3499:20:51, 1 March 2021 (UTC) 3426:Builder's Old Measurement 3415:19:36, 25 July 2017 (UTC) 2895:should be a re-direct to 2569:Category:Two-masted ships 2561:Category:Two-masted ships 2536:Category:Two-masted ships 2503:Category:Two-masted ships 2288:Category:two-masted ships 2035:Category:Two-masted ships 937:This takes the biscuit - 615:20:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC) 529:20:44, 9 March 2007 (UTC) 490:20:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC) 321: 292: 189:military history articles 151: 64: 46: 2935:That is one sexy photo! 2509:, and many, many others. 2157:We should of course use 1850:Please do not modify it. 1662:Cruizer-class brig-sloop 1414:(boat) or (vessel) ? -- 890:Brigantine (old article) 821:Brigantine (old article) 674:Please do not modify it. 608:in the discussion forums 592:16:58, 7 June 2007 (UTC) 582:18:47, 6 June 2007 (UTC) 424:17:17, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC) 3294:External links modified 3120:External links modified 3067:Development of the brig 3065:The information in the 3037:Development of the brig 1393:Brig (sailing ship rig) 917:Oppose and speedy close 886:Procedural speedy close 297:Associated task forces: 242:Coverage and accuracy: 90:, or contribute to the 3514:B-Class Ships articles 2891:articles are correct. 2719:is an excellent idea. 2358:HMS Grasshopper (1813) 2120:in its current sense? 1389:, and needlessly long. 941:has moved the article 318: 275:Supporting materials: 203: 28:This article is rated 2011:is than about what a 1337:brig (disambiguation) 996:ship (disambiguation) 955:Brig (disambiguation) 953:is now a redirect to 317: 202: 32:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 3443:Article deficiencies 3359:regular verification 3233:regular verification 1385:. No advantage over 1324:Alternative proposal 347:I came here off the 3349:After February 2018 3223:After February 2018 3202:parameter below to 3097:Brig and Brigantine 3059:Let me explain why: 2296:Category:Ship types 1617:articles, such as: 1383:Brig (sailing ship) 534:NO Brig, Brigantine 264:Grammar and style: 217:for B-class status: 3486:Howard I. Chapelle 3403:InternetArchiveBot 3354:InternetArchiveBot 3277:InternetArchiveBot 3228:InternetArchiveBot 2893:Hermaphrodite brig 2814:Hermaphrodite_brig 2431:Brig (sailing rig) 2364:as pointed out by 1881:moved the article 1377:Brig (sailing rig) 408:. For the town in 382:Text removed from 378:Brig, Switzerland? 319: 204: 171:list of open tasks 92:project discussion 34:content assessment 3472:WP:CONTEXTMATTERS 3379: 3253: 3081:comment added by 3024: 3007:comment added by 2988: 2971:comment added by 2906:is a brig-rigged 2865:There's also the 2705:I think you mean 2199:fully rigged ship 2171:fully rigged ship 1688:was brig-rigged, 1056:Anthony Appleyard 921:assume good faith 825:Anthony Appleyard 813:User:InternetMeme 799:Anthony Appleyard 740:Anthony Appleyard 414:Brig, Switzerland 395:Brig, Switzerland 340: 339: 336: 335: 332: 331: 328: 327: 288: 287: 175:full instructions 127: 126: 123: 122: 96:full instructions 79:WikiProject Ships 3541: 3491:ThoughtIdRetired 3489:of the article. 3477:R. M. Ballantyne 3453:ThoughtIdRetired 3413: 3404: 3377: 3376: 3355: 3287: 3278: 3251: 3250: 3229: 3217: 3150: 3093: 3023: 3001: 2987: 2965: 2350:full-rigged ship 1922:Most importantly 1874:Revert this move 1852: 1000:full rigged ship 892:), then makes a 676: 630: 604:Keep to the Code 304: 294: 278: 274: 273: 267: 263: 262: 256: 252: 251: 245: 241: 240: 234: 230: 229: 208: 191: 190: 187: 184: 181: 180:Military history 160: 153: 152: 147: 140:Military history 136: 129: 119: 112: 111: 108: 105: 102: 88:join the project 73: 66: 65: 55: 48: 31: 25: 24: 16: 3549: 3548: 3544: 3543: 3542: 3540: 3539: 3538: 3504: 3503: 3445: 3422: 3407: 3402: 3370: 3363:have permission 3353: 3311:this simple FaQ 3296: 3281: 3276: 3244: 3237:have permission 3227: 3211: 3144: 3137:this simple FaQ 3122: 3099: 3076: 3030: 3002: 2994: 2992:Usefull Diagram 2966: 2952: 2933: 2810: 2689:military prison 2089:diesel-electric 1993: 1907:Disambiguating 1876: 1857: 1848: 1326: 672: 666: 658: 626: 622: 620:Military prison 599: 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3126: 3123: 3100: 3077:— Preceding 3072:on the Ocean 3070: 3069:section has 3066: 3064: 3058: 3057: 3049: 3044: 3036: 3032:The Section 3031: 3003:— Preceding 2995: 2967:— Preceding 2960: 2956: 2953: 2934: 2931:Brig Niagara 2908:sloop-of-war 2845: 2840: 2835:Meanwhile, 2834: 2829: 2811: 2803: 2789: 2745:InternetMeme 2710: 2706: 2653: 2610: 2608: 2568: 2564: 2560: 2539: 2535: 2527: 2472: 2468: 2460: 2402: 2398: 2385: 2326: 2324: 2291: 2269:the section 2224: 2220: 2214: 2202: 2198: 2194: 2190: 2179: 2170: 2166: 2158: 2149: 2145: 2141: 2136: 2122:InternetMeme 2117: 2113: 2109: 2107: 2077: 2068: 2066: 2050: 2046: 2040: 2038: 2032: 2012: 2008: 2000: 1999:which added 1994: 1931: 1921: 1895:InternetMeme 1879:InternetMeme 1877: 1861:InternetMeme 1858: 1849: 1846: 1830: 1819:InternetMeme 1817: 1813: 1812: 1809: 1805: 1793:InternetMeme 1788: 1784: 1763: 1746: 1689: 1685: 1681: 1677: 1672: 1665: 1656: 1649: 1634:InternetMeme 1632: 1627: 1625: 1620: 1618: 1512:InternetMeme 1507: 1503: 1482: 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Yes, a 2712:namespace 2669:Yes, see 2631:consensus 2505:and even 2362:this edit 2033:See also 1997:this edit 1807:objects. 1686:Racehorse 1666:Racehorse 1657:Racehorse 1387:...(ship) 1334:and move 1070:Well, my 726:But page 647:Wowaconia 589:Wowaconia 511:Wowaconia 477:Wowaconia 462:Wowaconia 453:Wowaconia 438:Wowaconia 429:Wowaconia 370:Wowaconia 361:Wowaconia 3399:Cheers.— 3273:Cheers.— 3079:unsigned 3017:contribs 3005:unsigned 2981:contribs 2969:unsigned 2790:awesome! 2216:Pretoria 2212:schooner 1940:without 1772:Kotniski 1328:Move to 854:Czrisher 686:form of 214:criteria 145:Maritime 3307:my edit 3200:checked 3151:tag to 3133:my edit 2848:spanker 2721:Andrewa 2717:hatnote 2675:Andrewa 2641:Andrewa 2590:Andrewa 2477:Andrewa 2412:Andrewa 2366:Andrewa 2308:Andrewa 2229:Andrewa 2159:current 2093:Andrewa 2055:Andrewa 2021:Andrewa 2017:WP:lead 1977:Andrewa 1961:Andrewa 1785:Support 1751:Mjroots 1682:Cruizer 1650:because 1401:Andrewa 1113:Andrewa 1037:Andrewa 1019:Comment 1004:Andrewa 978:Andrewa 925:Andrewa 628:MrZaius 422:Andrewa 30:B-class 3420:Weight 3208:failed 3143:Added 2973:Troske 2331:Ykraps 2184:barque 1764:Oppose 1747:Oppose 1660:was a 1147:Oppose 1132:Ykraps 1128:Oppose 898:WP:MAD 867:Oppose 850:Oppose 842:Powers 838:Oppose 815:moved 755:Oppose 730:says " 412:, see 36:scale. 2327:still 2135:This 1690:Snake 1678:Snake 1673:Snake 1167:or a 664:Move? 101:Ships 59:Ships 3495:talk 3457:talk 3434:talk 3303:Brig 3204:true 3129:Brig 3111:talk 3105:. -- 3087:talk 3013:talk 2977:talk 2941:talk 2919:talk 2915:Shem 2887:and 2885:brig 2883:The 2875:talk 2869:... 2856:talk 2822:brig 2820:and 2796:talk 2775:talk 2749:talk 2725:talk 2709:not 2707:name 2697:talk 2679:talk 2671:ship 2660:talk 2645:talk 2620:talk 2616:Shem 2594:talk 2481:talk 2473:ship 2443:talk 2416:talk 2403:ship 2399:brig 2374:talk 2370:Shem 2354:brig 2348:and 2346:ship 2335:talk 2312:talk 2271:soap 2252:talk 2233:talk 2225:boat 2221:ship 2203:ship 2195:ship 2191:ship 2186:and 2180:ship 2167:ship 2146:ship 2142:boat 2126:talk 2118:ship 2114:ship 2110:ship 2097:talk 2069:ship 2059:talk 2051:ship 2047:brig 2041:ship 2025:talk 2013:brig 2009:ship 2003:ship 1991:Soap 1981:talk 1965:talk 1950:talk 1946:Shem 1942:Brig 1938:Brig 1926:Brig 1917:ship 1909:Brig 1902:Brig 1883:Brig 1865:talk 1837:talk 1823:talk 1797:talk 1789:Brig 1776:talk 1770:).-- 1768:Brig 1755:talk 1738:talk 1721:talk 1706:talk 1671:HMS 1655:HMS 1638:talk 1600:talk 1567:talk 1530:talk 1516:talk 1508:ship 1483:ship 1461:talk 1438:talk 1420:talk 1405:talk 1371:brig 1353:ship 1349:brig 1342:brig 1312:talk 1308:Shem 1295:talk 1281:talk 1277:Shem 1265:talk 1250:talk 1246:Shem 1227:talk 1219:brig 1205:talk 1201:Shem 1181:talk 1173:ship 1165:ship 1151:ship 1136:talk 1117:talk 1109:brig 1099:talk 1095:Shem 1091:Brig 1081:talk 1077:Shem 1060:talk 1041:talk 1027:talk 1008:talk 998:and 992:ship 982:talk 968:talk 964:Shem 959:Brig 951:Brig 943:Brig 929:talk 906:talk 875:talk 858:talk 829:talk 803:talk 785:talk 781:Shem 773:brig 763:talk 759:Shem 744:talk 728:Brig 717:talk 705:Brig 696:talk 574:here 526:Akb4 487:Akb4 391:Brig 84:Ship 3367:RfC 3337:to 3327:to 3241:RfC 3218:). 3206:or 3191:to 3181:to 3171:to 3161:to 2691:? 2290:is 1911:as 1885:to 1734:PBS 1626:2) 1619:1) 1457:PBS 1416:PBS 1340:to 1244:. 1072:OED 949:. 945:to 819:to 550:: 3510:: 3497:) 3474:?) 3459:) 3436:) 3380:. 3375:}} 3371:{{ 3254:. 3249:}} 3245:{{ 3216:}} 3212:{{ 3149:}} 3145:{{ 3113:) 3089:) 3019:) 3015:• 2983:) 2979:• 2943:) 2921:) 2902:A 2877:) 2858:) 2850:? 2816:, 2798:) 2777:) 2751:) 2727:) 2699:) 2681:) 2673:. 2662:) 2647:) 2622:) 2596:) 2483:) 2445:) 2418:) 2376:) 2337:) 2314:) 2298:, 2273:.) 2254:) 2235:) 2128:) 2099:) 2061:) 2053:. 2027:) 1983:) 1967:) 1952:) 1867:) 1839:) 1825:) 1799:) 1778:) 1757:) 1740:) 1723:) 1708:) 1640:) 1602:) 1569:) 1532:) 1518:) 1463:) 1440:) 1422:) 1407:) 1355:. 1344:. 1314:) 1297:) 1283:) 1267:) 1252:) 1241:, 1238:, 1229:) 1207:) 1196:If 1183:) 1138:) 1119:) 1101:) 1083:) 1062:) 1043:) 1029:) 1010:) 994:, 984:) 970:) 931:) 908:) 900:. 877:) 860:) 831:) 823:. 805:) 787:) 765:) 746:) 719:) 707:→ 698:) 645:-- 386:: 303:/ 143:: 3493:( 3455:( 3432:( 3412:) 3408:( 3395:. 3388:. 3286:) 3282:( 3269:. 3262:. 3109:( 3085:( 3011:( 2975:( 2939:( 2917:( 2873:( 2854:( 2794:( 2773:( 2747:( 2723:( 2695:( 2677:( 2658:( 2643:( 2618:( 2592:( 2571:. 2479:( 2441:( 2414:( 2392:. 2372:( 2333:( 2310:( 2250:( 2231:( 2173:. 2124:( 2095:( 2057:( 2043:s 2023:( 1979:( 1963:( 1948:( 1863:( 1835:( 1821:( 1795:( 1774:( 1753:( 1736:( 1719:( 1704:( 1636:( 1598:( 1565:( 1528:( 1514:( 1459:( 1436:( 1418:( 1403:( 1310:( 1293:( 1279:( 1263:( 1248:( 1225:( 1203:( 1179:( 1153:: 1134:( 1115:( 1097:( 1079:( 1058:( 1039:( 1025:( 1006:( 980:( 966:( 927:( 904:( 873:( 856:( 827:( 801:( 783:( 761:( 742:( 715:( 694:( 416:. 177:. 98:. 42::

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