1012:: This problem just occurred to me and I want to know how you feel about this. Deutschland was originally classified as a Panzerschiff by the Reichsmarine. The Kriegsmarine reclassified her as a heavy cruiser and renamed her LĂĽtzow. Therefore shouldn't the article name be "German Panzerschiff Deutschland" or "German cruiser LĂĽtzow"? Mixing her Reichsmarine class name with the Kriegsmarine ship name doesn't make sense to me (or vice versa).
636:"The ship accidentally started sliding down the slipway before Hindenburg could give his christening speech." I believe this to be wrong. The christening speech was given by Reichspräsident Heinrich Brüning. The steel towing broke while Brüning was giving his speech. The ship starting moving unplugging the loudspeakers ending his speech prematurely. The band starting playing the national anthem and Hindenburgs spoke the following words: "
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831:"The Soviet Navy raised the ship in September 1947 and broke her up for scrap in 1948–1949" HR&S volume 6 page 25 contest this theory! They claim that the ship scrapped was actually the former Admiral Hipper Class Lützow. According to HR&S Lützow never made it to Kronstadt. She sank near Kolberg
950:
was built as a testbed for the engines. A lot of smart engineering went into the C/28 tripple turrets. The result was a higher rate of fire than even contemporary double turrets. A lot of info on crew structure all the way down to the cook and barber is also available. I can only say it is a must for
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Manfred Dörr page 282 it states in German (here my translation). KzS Thiele received the KC for his leadership of
Kampfgruppe V (5th battle group) during the occupation of Oslo. Thiele took command of the battle group after the sinking of BlĂĽcher. According to Scherzer the official KC citation states
945:
I managed to buy this book for 5 Euros. Wow, this book has so much detail. The author, Hans Georg Prager, had served on
Deutschland/LĂĽtzow. We have her fate all wrong. The book goes into much detail, incl. pictures, of her sinking. She was sunk by the Soviets. I have to read the book first before I
994:
I shouldn't have started reading Prager :-) "The RAF made another failed attack two days later, but on 16 April, a force of eighteen
Lancasters scored a single hit and several near misses on LĂĽtzow with Tallboy bombs in the Kaiserfahrt" He claims that LĂĽtzow was attacked by a blend of Tallboys and
868:
Another data point for you: In the summer of 1944 Thiele (now admiral) had ordered LĂĽtzow to prepare for
Operation Tanne West which was called of after the situation in Finland had stabilized. In this timeframe her anti aircraft capabilities were augmented by replacing the 2cm guns with 4cm guns.
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Do you mean the header with the flag? I tried it with both listed in the header and it just makes it jumbled and confused looking - I suppose we could have two boxes, but I don't know if that would be the best alternative, given that we normally use multiple boxes for ships that changed ownership
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The heavy cruiser "Lutzow" and the torpedo boats T 33, T 28 and T 8 supported on 8 February through their effective fire the bravely fighting crew of Elbing. Furthermore, this task force took Soviet positions and deployment streets on the
Vistula Lagoon under heavy bombardment.
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was built as an engine testbed, but not about the C/28 turrets. A lot of that information will be better placed in the class article (which I have finished up to where my sources end - I'm sure there'll be quite a bit to add from Prager).
995:
250kg bombs. None of the
Tallboys actually had hit LĂĽtzow directly, but one very near miss ripped her open. She was hit by 250kg bombs. One of the 250kg bombs even had penetrated into the 28cm munition storage but failed to explode.
569:
during their career. If we just stick with one, I think it should stay as it is, since the ship is most known for serving during the war (and indeed spent only 2 of her 12 years in commission with the
Reichsmarine).
1084:
I believe the article should be passed at GA level. However, moving forward the entire fate section needs to be reworked because it does not match the Prager, who based his work on the
Russian archives.
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LĂĽtzow was part of August Thiele's II. Kampfgruppe as of 28 July 1944. In early 1945 she participated in the battles of East
Prussia together with Prinz Eugen, Admiral Scheer and various torpedo boats.
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519:"She was laid down at the Kriegsmarinewerft shipyard in Wilhelmshaven". The Reichsmarine became the Kriegsmarine in 1935. Deutschland was laid down in 1929!? Something is wrong here
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generally advises generic ship types rather than specific, which to me would favor retaining "cruiser" over "Panzershiff." Maybe we should put this question to a wider audience at
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Regarding the references of HR & S, be careful and note that the
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is unclear, but it seems she survived until at least 1953, though some accounts place her dismantling as late as 1960. See
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The second two have been fixed, the first is a result of the dab link at the top of the page and cannot be fixed.
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This should be in the class article, which I'm currently reworking - I'd appreciate any info you have for that.
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The Reichstag had a lengthy debate. The alternatives were Type A, Type B and Type C. Where is this discussed?
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The German wiki article tells another story about the fate of Deutschland/LĂĽtzow. The reference they use is
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commander August Thiele received the Knight's Cross during his command of LĂĽtzow. This should be mentioned.
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KC on 18 January 1941 as KzS and commander of heavy cruiser LĂĽtzow. I cited all this on Thiele's article.
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Deutschalnd was ordered and built by the Weimar Republic not Nazi Germany. Shouldn't this be mentioned?
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for the various claims. I have added the statement by HR&S and noted the discrepancy however.
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LĂĽtzow was mentioned in the Wehrmachtbericht on 9 February 1945. Shouldn't this be mentioned?
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Thanks, I don't know why I mixed those up - should all be fixed now.
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Do you have a citation? He isn't mentioned in any of my sources.
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Should be - can you provide me the text of the Wehrmachtberict?
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So fahre denn hin in dein Element; ich taufe dich Deutschland
522:"Deutschland was ordered by the Kriegsmarine" Same problem
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901:Thanks, I'm not sure how I managed to switch that.
921:Panzerschiff Deutschland, Schwerer Kreuzer LĂĽtzow
640:" — "So drive into your element, I christen thee
651:Fixed - I trust HR&S more than Williamson.
1042:to see what other people think would be best.
946:can give you help on this. Did you know that
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410:(images are tagged and non-free images have
550:Shouldn't the infobox be updated as well?
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788:Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (
776:Original German Wehrmachtbericht wording
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796:Die Wehrmachtberichte 1939-1945 Band 3
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644:". See HR&S volume 2 page 255.
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18:Talk:German cruiser Deutschland
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813:Thanks, added to the article.
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760:Here you go
713:Added now.
642:Deutschland
228:word choice
104:visual edit
1036:WP:MILHIST
794:reference
261:verifiable
48:Authorship
34:GA toolbox
1044:Parsecboy
976:Parsecboy
925:amazon.de
903:Parsecboy
852:Parsecboy
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798:, p. 437.
744:Parsecboy
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451:Pass/Fail
332:(focused)
144:Reviewer:
71:Templates
62:Reviewing
27:GA Review
1040:WP:SHIPS
1010:Question
158:contribs
76:Criteria
445:Overall
232:fiction
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971:Bremse
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844:LĂĽtzow
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