596:(ll. 116-138) Verily at the first Chaos came to be, but next wide-bosomed Earth, the ever-sure foundations of all4 the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympus, and dim Tartarus in the depth of the wide-pathed Earth, and Eros (Love), fairest among the deathless gods, who unnerves the limbs and overcomes the mind and wise counsels of all gods and all men within them. From Chaos came forth Erebus and black Night; but of Night were born Aether5 and Day, whom she conceived and bare from union in love with Erebus. And Earth first bare starry Heaven, equal to herself, to cover her on every side, and to be an ever-sure abiding-place for the blessed gods. And she brought forth long Hills, graceful haunts of the goddess-Nymphs who dwell amongst the glens of the hills. She bare also the fruitless deep with his raging swell, Pontus, without sweet union of love. But afterwards she lay with Heaven and bare deep-swirling Oceanus, Coeus and Crius and Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoebe and lovely Tethys. After them was born Cronos the wily, youngest and most terrible of her children, and he hated his lusty sire.
961:"The primeval gods are depicted as a place or a realm. The best example is Tartarus who is depicted as the Underworld, Hell..." No, the all inclusive, ancient Greek "Underworld" is not by default to be considered the equivilant of the Abrahamic religion's "Hell". Tartaros is one region of the underworld, and in that region the titans from the titanomachy are there, among others. The "Underworld" includes other regions, not all of which are regions for punishment; Ellysium is in the Underworld, so are the Isles of the Blessed! To write as if the two concepts are the same; ancient Greek Underworld and Abrahamic Hell, is unacceptable. No teacher, publisher, or someone otherwise educated in Relgious Anthropology, or "Mythology" would permit it... . Other then that, I can so far see no other problems. Only clergy from the "Supreme Council of Ethnikoi Hellenes" would be able to improve it. -Honestly, nice work!
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1018:(Cambridge, 1985). This result is a mistake: the text that actually comes up is a book based upon the content of Knowledge (XXG), as are most of the more recent "books" to use the word; the others are not reliable sources and are probably derivative of this page. JSTOR of course doesn't give any results for Protogenoi either, since the word's made up. In fact, none of the other words suggested by Catalographer were systematically used of the
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in LSJ; a
Thesaurus Linguae Graecae Search turns up no such word. I fear that Knowledge (XXG), and/or the mixed blessing that is the very useful Theoi.com, has created a new word. A Google Books search for "protogenoi" yields no uses of the term from before the twenty-first century aside from what
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This article lists Ophion as a representation of life, but no source is listed and, from my research, none exists that interprets him as such. Even his own article doesn't mention him as a representation of life. Does anyone have a source for this? Or sources for any of the claims made in this
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It is not clear what "with Aither (not offspring of Gaia)" means. Some explanation is necessary. The previous discussion raises a point regarding Pontus. Either one of the two solutions should be used. However, either of the two clearly points out that Pontus came after Gaia.
895:
If I interpret correctly "Phanes (Appearance) or
Himeros or Eros elder (Procreation) or Protogonos (the First Born) – male", the same god had four names. If that is the case, Himeros is not Phanes since the two do not point to the same god/link.
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Moon, Sun, Life (the force causing life), Death (the force ending life). Are they not considered
Protogenoi, or simply no ancient Greek evidence has been found naming them as Protogenoi? Or is this a case of ethnocentrisim on my part?
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I think pages on Hydros (water) and Thesis (creation) need to be made. I can begin them but I do not know a lot about these topics. Some information is found on theoi.com, but I have no information beyond what is found there.
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Since correcting this issue will involve editing a good number of pages, I'm holding off on the move for another day or so: it'd be best if more editors chimed in, and this weren't simply agreed upon between Andrew and me. —
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1049:) does exist, is in LSJ, and was used as an epithet for the first generation of deities. But perhaps only once, certainly not on a regular basis. Therefore I agree with your proposed move, though I think the word
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No I am not
Suprised Moon,Sun,Life, and Death are missing. Death(Thanatos) is a child of Nyx(night) Moon and sun are titans and Olympian gods NOT Protogenoi there not a Protogenoi, titan, or Olympian god of
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I've edited the caption for the sculpture of "Gaia" to indicate that it is a modern work of art - as it stands it appears to be an authentic ancient Greek depiction of the goddess, which is very misleading.
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I think you're right, TX55. I'm studying Hesiod in a graduate philosophy seminar right now and Eros is one of the original four according to Clay
Strauss and Mitchell Miller and, well, Hesiod. I'll make the
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In the "Deities" section, Moros appears as a god for the first and only time in the article. Apparently, he is an offspring of Erebus and Nyx. I am not sure if he should be considered a
Protogenos.
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The list of the Prôtogenoi was part of the introduction. I decided to make a paragraph out of it and place it below the contents. The introduction didn't look too good and was too long.
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Under children of Nyx the name "Ker" is linked to the page for the death spirits "Keres" rather than the personification of
Destiny. I am unable to find a page dedicated to "Ker".
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there's written that there are two version of the legend about his creation: one has him born from Gaia via auto-fecundation, the other tells he was born from Gaia and
201:, a group of contributors interested in Knowledge (XXG)'s articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our
1158:
I've moved the page, cleared out the links and hopefully deleted the term
Protogenos from WP text, but won't be certain until the massive replag is cleared out. —
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Be careful though not to depend on Theoi.com, which is not a reliable source, both the usual sense of that word "reliable", and in the
Knowledge (XXG) sense of
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and the Orphic cosmogonies/theogonies, and perhaps a mention somewhere (though prehaps not on this page) of
Persephone's being Kore Protogone at Pausanias
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Phusis, Ourea, Nesoi and Thetys do not show in the table on the right side of the page. I assume some should be included while others should not.
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Oceanus and Thalassa seem to be both sea gods. Is it normal to have duplicates gods of the sea? There must be some difference between the two.
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I changed the spelling of Erebus, Pontus and Tartarus to match the table on the right side of the page and avoid confusion to the reader.
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The difference between Oceania and Thalassa is Oceanus is a god and Thalassa is goddess however they are both titans.
1022:, which is what I propose this article be named. The term protogenoi should also be removed from this encyclopedia. —
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Yes, understood. I'm in the process of removing the theoi.com citations on this page in favour of better sources.
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I moved the sculpture of Gaia to the right of the page. It looks much better and the section is easier to read.
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I agree that Protogonos, singular and capitalized, at least, definitely belongs in the article, in relation to
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I do not understand the meaning of the indentation of the Prôtogenoi. I hope somebody can explain it.
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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What I heard about pontos is that he is born from Gaia alone like Uranus but I might be wrong.
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How do Ananke, Chronos, Phanes, Phusis and Ourea link genealogically with the Prôtogenoi?
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Was Eros not described as a Protogenos by Hesoid? --jftsanglol 22:11, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
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I have changed "Alcman called the water-nymph Thetis..." to "Alcman called Thetis..." as
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I this this article needs some work. Somebody needs to clean up and clarify the content.
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I've also removed the citation to theoi.com and replaced it with the book
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Yes, I knew I'd seen that in English somewhere! Thanks for reminding me.
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says that he is a son of Gaia. Which one article tells the truth?
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In this article it says Pontos is "not offspring of Gaia", but in
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I agree. I mean to make them sometime if someone else doesn't.
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specifically states "not the sea-goddess, but 'Creation'".
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Somewhere behind this is a spelling mistake: the word
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