Talk:Griefer - Knowledge

3834:

blowing up cargo, yet the objective tells other players to destroy it. So there are many online debates about whether it's griefing or if it's just playing the objective, but since they updated it to allow invite-only sell missions without a PvP payout bonus, the consensus on subreddits has been that it's not griefing, regardless of how annoyed someone gets with someone playing that objective. Also in GTA Online, killing other players is sometimes seen as griefing, and sometimes seen as PvP, and there's also a scoreboard and killfeed which encourage it. The difference in online communities usually seems to be that targeting and killing a single player repetitively and uninvitedly is called 'griefing', whereas otherwise it's just casual PvP, which players have tools to opt of, such as passive mode and ghosting. So there are more layers to deciding whether a behavior is griefing beyond just being bothersome. Although there are people who use the word to refer simply to being annoying, it's not necessarily the commonly accepted internet definition as using the word in that way typically results in heavy arguments. In any online FPS, if killing another player annoys them, and not killing the enemy team annoys the teammates, then which behavior is griefing? That's likely why the cited definition provides the clarification that it's up to the developer's intentions for the game's design.

3211:

MMO's consider griefing differently and that was the only point to that addition. As far as the "definition" part of your response is concerned, just because its a mechanism of the MMO does not mean it is not (gameplay) harmful to the player being griefed. In my opinion your definition is more ascribed to the term "Exploit" which is using unintentional mechanisms of a game to cause harm to other players or to gain an advantage within the game. The difference between "griefing" and "exploit" within a MMO is subtle I agree (and probably why we're having this discussion) but there. Griefing is a group or type of actions within an MMO that cause harm to another player whether allowed by the game or not, exploits are using unintentional game mechanics to change the intended actions of a game mechanics. I would argue that an exploit can lead to griefing but griefing does not have to be an exploit. (p.s I am 174.102.151.214 on a different computer).

3276:

difficult for people who do have pertinent information to add and revisions that do make sense and add to the pages content and information are blocked or removed (as you mentioned may happen here) by what (from the outside) appears arbitrary reasons. This is a marked change from Knowledge's beginnings and not one I'm particularly fond of although I do understand some of the reasons for it. My reasons for wanting that comment added were that Eve Online is well known and often criticized for its griefing capabilities and seemed the proper addition to that section to offset the MMO's that are trying to find ways to block such actions. Again, my apologies and thanks for making the changes!

2731:

Theft Auto: Online. Each one deals with the situations in a different way; Darkfall gives you a short window of invincibility to attempt escape, Mortal Online lets you spawn elsewhere after a very time-consuming and often difficult activity, Grand Theft Auto: Online lets you give up your ability to shoot others to also stop others from shooting you (though you must still escape as there are other forms of damage), and in Battlefield 3 it will eventually move you out of the situation when your team inevitably loses.

1244:

to just delete that entire part of the article, because apparently you're more biased in editing pages than anything else. What about the people who don't play online games and therefore have no idea what a Griefer is? So, are people who don't know immediately supposed to believe this drivel about them? And yeah, it is unencyclopedic to state "In contrast to Myth B, Fact A is the case", because instead of giving people straight facts, you first lie to them, THEN set them straight. Try reading

1283:), I'm simply trying to engage you in debate on whether wikipedia should report on public opinion. I already made my main point, which is the difficulty of sourcing information on "griefing". And for your information, I happen to spend almost all my wikipedia time reverting vandals and NPOV edits, so I really don't need or deserve your condescension. You've made your point, and I don't disagree. So how about you calm down and stop thinking of me as the enemy? - 3855:

psychology and background of griefers, which reads like the letter of someone who's venting, so I think these pages should NOT be merged, which isn't an option anyway considering that page is a 'Knowledge essay'. However, calling this page 'griefer' is somewhat confusing, considering much of the page describes the methods, responses, etc to the literal act of griefing in online gaming, so it should be renamed so people stop trying to merge ideas from that page.

468: 2207:. There's a lot of discussion about the motivations for the behavior, which makes it partially about the people as well as about the activity. (Yes, it's an idiosyncratic use of the word, but that's the way it has come to be used in this context.) I reverted a rewrite of the lead sentence before I saw this discussion, sorry, but I think we should keep the existing wording so long as the title has not yet been changed. -- 1540:

it is today. While I can't be exactly sure as to WHO coined the term first in the Oasis Group, I can say it was without a doubt the first time these terms were used. Since I cannot remember all the Team Members of the Oasis Group, I won't speculate WHO was the first to say it, but I can say that Bob Bowrest was the first to use these terms when dealing directly with EA/OSI Management personnel. - Bob Bowrest

1986:

played several FPS's, and disruptive teammates were commonly referred to as "griefers", whether they acted alone or with others. In RPG's, such as Diablo 2, games are commonly griefed by a single person. I do not play MMORPGs though, so I cannot comment on the group-griefing practices that occur in them. A good remedy might be to add a section titled "Organized Griefing", to describe this type of behavior.

3012:

Your answer is, in my opinion, no answer and based on that the entire article should be deleted for lack of proper sourcing. Lets try this again !!! Please add the content I suggested or at least mirror the content that was already supplied at the wiki page for Eve Online (and use the citations there) so people viewing this article know that griefing is not always considered against policy for some MMO's.

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but that although I question the appropriateness of the source, it seems an uncontroversial piece of information and one that is likely easily gleaned by anyone with a familiarity with Eve Online. I really think the community will prefer a better source, so if you can find one, please do, lest the edit be removed by another editor.

1909:

ex-military failure types, I'll say things like "me and my gay boyfriend love this game!" While immature and utterly unoriginal, such statements almost never fail to incite a riot, with the morons on the server letting their insecurities run rampant to the point of getting themselves a ban for hurling epithets.

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I think we should define it by the action, not the actor. Note that there is a similar page called 'griefing', which is listed as a 'Knowledge essay' (I'm unfamiliar with what Knowledge essays are for), but the wording there is uncited, highly subjective, and makes a lot of bold assumptions about the

3833:

A lot of people also use it the other way, and argue heavily about it. If bothering players is not the primary objective, yet they're not using aspects of the game in unintended ways, could it not be said that bothering other players is a secondary objective? In GTA Online, 'cargo griefing' refers to

3191:

Then your argument would be factually incorrect, because intentional gameplay elements are never griefing—by definition. The only reason some members of EVE's community refer to those activities as "griefing" is because, as you yourself quoted, those activities "are considered griefing in most MMOs".

1770:

That's absolutely ridiculous. There is no real-world equivalent to griefing because there are things you are unable to do in real life that games allow you to do. This is ultimately what is exploited by griefers: capabilities of the game itself. To insist that griefers are the same as street gangs is

1625:

Consider rewriting the following: "In some people's opinion, a player must meet several if not all points listed for a player to be considered griefing. Other people feel that curbing any of their enjoyment of the game to be a form of griefing whether it meets any of the listed criteria or not. These

1329:

If there's no sources on Griefing, that's fine and good. If Jimbo Wales says what he wants about encyclopedic writing, that's also fine and good. What's not fine and good is using either of those as excuses to be non-neutral or biased. Furthermore, the only reason I appear "angry", is because I don't

1243:

Oh wow, you really made me laugh. "My point is that I think it's our duty not only to report on what griefers are, but what people think of them." Yeah, that's rich. Let's re-write Knowledge, and, instead of puttting FACTS into articles, let's just put in OPINIONS. Your last comment is making me itch

3275:

I do and sincerely apologize. When I looked no changes had occurred to the main page and the tone of your response indicated no changes would occur. Mark it down as lack of sleep on my part. The only reason I was miffed is it appears Knowledge's policies on page additions has, in many cases, become

3240:

page for Griefing, it appears there are three groups who can edit, "players, ccp, volunteer". I've added your proposed statement. Please keep in mind it's not because of your three exclamation points, or because you are "miffed" at existing Knowledge guidelines over which neither of us has control,

2706:

Since a specific edit was linked here, and the reasoning for dispute seemed extremely odd, I glanced over the history of the article for context. The first thing I noticed was that the edit you linked to was the final edit made in a small edit war between you and the other user. It appears the other

2696:

I don't see a problem with this edit. Even if a source hypothetically proved that no such game exists, one could be made at any time. I could make a Java app right now called "Camp The Corpse" where the only objective is to camp someone's corpse for as long as possible, then switch sides and see who

2309:

per common usage. The term for the activity "griefing" is far less common than the characterization of certain people as "griefers". As far as the scope is concerned: "Griefing" is simply the activity of a "griefer", and conversely a "griefer" is someone who engages in "griefing", so I don't believe

1539:

The terms Griefing/Griefer were coined in Ultima Online on the Sonoma Server for the actions of a group of people that would constantly disrupt the "Fight Night" event in Oasis. This term was actually ridiculed by the EA/OSI Management at first, but later accepted and eventually used Universally as

3210:

I personally dislike Eve-Online griefing but this is not about my likes or dislikes. The section this edit was intended for is about how some games handle griefing. As mentioned in that section, most MMO's have severe penalties up to and including banning from the MMO. Eve-Online handles what other

3011:

That makes absolutely no sense, the first two links are from EVE ONLINE (CCP)- not users/players. May as well say "Knowledge is no longer a user contributions information source and only those who have been given rights by Knowledge may add content - even when sourced." - Yeah, I'm a little miffed.

2773:

I think that adding a section on how to prevent the methods of griefing in the beginning of the article would help neutralize this page as being less how-to grief, and more how-to stop griefers. As far as I can tell, I'll just wiki search griefing and find a whole list on what I can generally do to

2419:

The definition of "kill stealing" is currently too narrow. It seems to imply that you can only kill steal for items or experience, and not for scoring or some other rewards. And kill stealing is not just possible with NPCs, it also happens in head-to-head games like deathmatch. In fact, it can even

1691:

I am hesitant to try to push any of these objectives in the article however, as griefers (malignant, evolved versions of trolls) exist here as well and are likely to try to derail Knowledge's own production process in order to cause grief to the readers and maintainers of this encyclopedia. I don't

1570:

The griefer might operate more covertly attempting to have a target think another player had caused the offense, leading him to take retribution on the innocent player causing him to think that his attacker is a griefer so he attacks back. Instigate this trouble enough to reach a critical mass and

3815:

A lot of people use the word "griefing" to just mean bothering other players when that's not the primary objective, not necessarily "using aspects of the game in unintended ways", for example killing players in Grand Theft Auto Online or blowing up bases in an anarchist Minecraft server. Minecraft

2750:

To be clear though, you were correct in reverting the original removal. It shouldn't have been removed since it used to be a prominent form of griefing in online games, and even if there were hypothetically no more games where spawn camping could be used to grief, making a new one would be simple.

2730:

As for your question, all modern game developers are aware of spawn camping, and they implement ways of making it fair when it exists, where it is an intended mechanic and thus not griefing. Some examples of modern games that purposely allow it are Battlefield 3, Darkfall, Mortal Online, and Grand

2029:

Also, I added another crucial part of griefing, intentionally being useless. Do you think I should explain feeding? In short, feeding is getting killed on purpose to give the opposing team more experience points or other game elements. I'm looking at griefing with a little tf2 bias though. In tf2,

1970:

You changed a lot, and I think we need to look at it carefully. I suspect that cleaning up some of the stream-of-consciousness and excess game information was probably good. On the other hand, I think that it very important to bring back some of the social aspects, and not to interpret the subject

1334:

this article. I didn't create this article, neither did I make any real edits to it other than posting the two tags that are there now. If you go ahead, and delete said text in the article, and then someone reverts or re-creates it, and then you remove it again, then you either direct them to this

1182:

Dude who wrote the above, who the hell do you think you are, calling people who play an online game a bit differently violent criminals? If I had enough time to waste on a game like WOW I would certainly "grief" rather than just waste my life pretending to be an elf or orc and playing exactly like

3339:

Please add the following peer-reviewed journal articles under the External Links section because these are research papers that directly relate to griefing. Bakioğlu, B. (2009). Spectacular Interventions of Second Life: Goon Culture, Griefing, and Disruption in Virtual Spaces." Journal of Virtual

1908:

As someone who griefs regularly on games such as Battlefield 2, I can attest that the aformentioned quote is false. In fact, much of my griefing fun comes simply from instigating arguments in global chat. Often, when I play on a server that obviously has an inordinate amount of ultra-conservative

1528:

Didn't mean to step into any religious war, I don't even play games anymore. I was just saying that "camping" was the closest word we had for it back then since at least *some* people were seriously annoyed with campers. There didn't seem to be any general term for troublemaking back in the Quake

2916:

And Corporate Spying an integral part of corporations and alliances in Eve Online but can be argued is a grief mechanisim. "Spies are spies, the shadow masters of EVE. To illustrate why they are feared, there have been many powerful alliances who have been defeated by spies. All without firing a

2720:

The second thing I noticed was that this seems to be a repeating trend, with a majority of your edits on this article being reverts where you disagree with someone else in your edit summary while undoing their edit. I'm not suggesting your reverts weren't justified, especially since this current

1912:

That said, I have never cheated. I'm too paranoid to download hacks from some script kiddie, and get more of a cheap thrill from seeing others built up into an uncomfortable rage a la Borat. So please, future editors to this article, come up with a concise definition, preferably one that doesn't

1230:

So it's unencyclopedic to state "In contrast to Myth B, Fact A is the case"? You have to always state "Fact A is the case" and nothing more? I have a hard time believing that, especially when it's a widespread myth or misperception that many readers might have an interest in learning the truth

1985:

It is perfectly OK to add things. If the primary argument is that trolling is individual behavior, whereas griefing is a coordinated effort, then I think the definition at the top should reflect that. However, I disagree with that statement, based on what I have seen in the games I play. I have

1399:

its inclusion as a standalone article on the English-language Knowledge. I would like to see it improved, however I lack the technical knowledge to do so. But I did come across a recent newspaper article that could point to recent trends in the use of this term and could be used as a reference:

1626:

players will often consider the following actions to constitute griefing: kill stealing, player killing, spamming, team killing (or team wounding), door or path blocking, ninja looting, spawn camping, and corpse camping. These actions often meet one of the criteria but may fail to meet others."

1496:

Based on Google searches it appears that this term "Griefer" was coined by one of the online game manufacturers (WoW?) sometime on or before 2003. If someone could determine who coined the slang term this should be added to the article. This term was certianly not in use back in the Quake/Doom

2289:

reflected in what the article now covers, and that is, indeed, both griefers and what they do. A proposal to rewrite the page by, in effect, deleting the parts about griefers and their motivations (something I would certainly oppose), is really a separate discussion from this rename proposal.

1940:

The entire article was written in a broken, stream-of-consciousness fashion. I deleted a great deal of redundant material. It does not seem useful or informative to mention specific games, since griefers are found in all of them. There was approximately a full page of text devoted entirely to

2352:

I tried to explain how kiting could cause problems, and how people drag monsters from other zones into newbie/starting-zones, but it keeps getting undone, because I guess the language is not sufficient. That is fine, but can someone else take a whack at it then? I tried and it kept getting

1684:

Article suggests that Griefing is some sort of specialized form of harassment, where flaws in game design must be employed. I argue that while exploiting game flaws may be quite popular for griefers, it's certainly not required. All that is required is intent to diminish gameplay for others.

1566:

I think perhaps something should be said about this concept mostly relevant to FPSes. A talented griefer may aim to not just target individual players but have the goal of causing chaos on an entire server causing it to degenerate into an orgy of team killing, kick votes, fear and loathing.

1463:

It seems to me that this particular section lacks hardly any verifiable sources. In fact, it seems to be mostly made up of the sheer opinion of whoever wrote it. Does anyone else have reason on why this section should exist? Also, is there any credible proof that any of the groups listed are

2946:"Due to the game's focus on freedom, consequence, and autonomy, many behaviours that are considered griefing in most MMOs are allowed in Eve. This includes stealing from other players, extortion, and causing other players to be killed by large groups of NPCs" (see the section on Griefing 3490:

There is no need to take things that belong on their own lines, and shoving them together. Also, if you edit, be careful not to remove valid content, or references. If you wish to make such drastic changes, please discuss it here on the talk page first, instead of edit warring.

1168:"The typical stereotype is of a teenaged male who escapes a life of social ostracism and perhaps even parental abuse by lashing out at others in the only realm where he has power - the net." This statement seems pretty biased to me, so I slapped the section with an NPOV tag. -- 2721:

example started with a legitimate revert on your part. However, you may want to keep Knowledge's policies in mind, and seriously consider trying to reach a consensus with people you don't agree with, rather than trying to prevent them from ever modifying the article at all.

1611:. This article contains too many instances of phrases like "In some people's opinion", "Other people feel that", "These players will often consider", "A number of gaming groups are believed to exist for the sole purpose of griefing" (better to rephrase this one by stating 2906:"Griefers are anyone who harasses other players for no gain. While just harassment would be annoying, they don't stop there. A Griefer will try to get you to do something that will let him kill you without CONCORD intervention, relying on the game's rules of engagement," 1257:

Have you ever tried to find reputable sources on the topic of "griefing"? Good luck with that. There aren't any. Therefore it's not really possible to source or prove anything we're talking about on this entire article. I'd delete it but someone would just re-create

2356:

It would be helpful if the _why_ portion of why-is-kiting-griefing is added. Those less familiar with gaming might not understand from the few words currently there, as to why kiting is even a problem. Aggroing raid bosses, kiting mobs from other zones, etc.

1904:

ago. While it makes somewhat clear that the definition of what constitutes a griefer is subjective and often specific to a particular game, it goes on (notably in the "Combating Griefers" section) to say things like "since all griefing involves exploiting..."

1680:

This article, while lacking any citation to the effect, appears to glorify griefing as some kind of exciting new sport. "Griefing is a malignant form of emergent gameplay." -- while it may be malignant and emergent, it is certainly not a form of gameplay.

3080:

Due to the game's focus on freedom, consequence, and autonomy, many behaviours that are considered griefing in most MMOs are allowed in Eve. This includes stealing from other players, extortion, and causing other players to be killed by large groups of

1574:

Also throw in random griefs in the interim such as kick votes (which has the additional benefit of keeping people from running a kick vote against you). Team griefing (having a partner in crime) is very usefull when trying to cause widespread chaos. -

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Worlds Research, 1(3). Bakioğlu, B. (2012). "Negotiating Governance in Virtual Worlds: Grief Play, Hacktivism & LeakOps in Second Life." New Review of Hypermedia & Multimedia, (18) 4, 237-259. Free copy of an earlier version available from

2778:") and sort-of explained it more with how-to grief on sandbox games, but I think we should start work on another section to give ways to stop griefers rather than give them ideas with the methods section (but still keep the methods section) — 1363:

no opinions? quick, we need to delete every "Criticism" section in wikipedia! after all, it's people's opinions. NPOV means you can't include your own opinions. you can include popular ones in order to explain the truth or falsehood of them.

1221:. It's as if to say that any abused or troubled teenager only had power taking it out on people over the internet, that's simply unacceptable. And furthermore, if it goes on to prove that it's false, why have it there in the first place? -- 924: 1654:

I can't make heads or tails of this article, and I'm a pretty old hand with video games. Could someone go through the piece with an eye to making it understandable to someone who has never played an online multiplayer game before? —

1356:

I don't think it would be POV to say that griefers are psychopaths or otherwise mentally deranged, like rapists, wifebeaters and other violent criminals. It would simply be factual. Of course, some sort of source would be required.

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As a general comment, we need to be writing for general readers, not just for people familiar with online jargon, and that's more important than arguing over a tag – although I suspect that may have been more to the point.

1517:

Camping is not griefing! Possibly laming in a Free For All game. I couldn't stand when people would cry "camper" in an objective based game like capture the flag...in an objective based game camping is called "tactics". -

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To: "Other accepted griefing behaviours are: kill stealing, player killing, spamming, team killing (or team wounding), door or path blocking, ninja looting, spawn camping, and corpse camping." Much shorter and with fewer

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And scammers, a form of griefing in RPG online games "Scammers are the EVE Online version of con men (or women!). They rely on the ignorance of new player or just plain deception in order to separate players from their

1424:

Griefing isnt just about scamming or harrassing people, the abuse of features in ways not intended is a major part of it too. Non griefers also do this yeah, but similarly not all scammers or team killers are griefers.

1971:

too narrowly as just video gaming-related. Trolling is usually an individual behavior, whereas griefing is increasingly being used to describe coordinated multi-person disruption online, not limited to game sites. --

1645:

Several parts of the "Overview" section have a reference tag which appears to be broken. Right now it's reference , it has a name of "bullies" but no description or URL or anything. Should this reference be removed?

2663:

What game exist that intentionally allows someone to remain where you resurrect at, killing you every time you do, to keep you from playing the game? I can't imagine it ever being used for anything but griefing.

1114:

This article just stinks of the "IM FUCKING PRO SO GET OUT N00B, YOU SUCK" mentality. Seriously, in the Halo 3 section it is calling grenade jumping "illegal". I fail to see how you argue that this is unbiased.

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Even among decent indie games in early beta, you're unlikely to find a modern game where spawn camping can be used to grief, because modern game developers design the game with that well-known activity in

2224:

This is about griefers, that what they called in the game industry, their actions, what defines them, the consequences, and the actions taken by the gaming industry to stop them. I guess we could call it

1178:

Biased? I'd probably write something like "the typical griefer is a psychopath and may share character traits with rapists, wifebeaters and other violent criminals." I don't think that would be POV at all.

2851:

Games such as Eve Online incorporate griefing as part of the gameplay mechanism. Corporate spying, theft, scams, gate-camping, and PVP on non-PVP players are all part of the game-play environment.

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says "Add Dubious after a specific statement or alleged fact which is sourced but which nevertheless seems dubious or unlikely." You don't tag something because you think it should be rewritten.

1860:

You'll need to find a credible source with journalistic overview, like peer review or an editor... This article has practically no sources, but my personal bias prevents me for nominating it :p

1709:

You're wrong—it *is* a form of gameplay; just one you don't happen to like. All the worse for you. All the better for the griefer. You're exactly the type griefers pray to come across, sport.

1160:

Having read the article today and made some minor edits for the sake of clarity I have removed the weasel tag as the offending passages seem to have been removed. 13:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

2260:

Now I'm seeing that the article is about both griefers and the activities they do. Well, but consensus needs to materialize if the activity or its practitioners are the scope of the article.

258: 503: 336: 515: 1024: 1006: 491: 3416:, it could be better you propose some changes based on that source in a "change X to Y" format to expand the present article, and in turn to have more, people to learn the subject. 973: 960: 3175:

I would argue that although it is incorporated as part of the gameplay it is still griefing (and called such by players in-game as well as by DEV's and support personnel - ISD's).

1771:

nonsensical. It sounds more like you have a personal grudge against griefers that you wish to express on Knowledge. Please leave your personal biases and grudges somewhere else. --

2985:. If you can find the information in reliable publications with clear editorial policies, that would be the way to support the proposed addition. No fault of yours, of course. 1688:

Casual griefing should also be mentioned. As any person who is bored and begins misbehaving (teamkilling, cursing/screaming into the vox, etc) essentially becomes a griefer.

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I've made some edits per the above, explaining "feeding", and selectively adding back a little of the deleted material, mainly showing the variety of usages of the term. --

1947:

Some of the malicious activity mentioned here, such as the epilepsy forum bright-light attack, seemed better described as internet trolling instead of video game griefing.

1433:- in fact, most of them do, and it's worth mentioning. But we must make it clear that not all griefers exploit, and it's not required for the definition of what griefing 3412:, may you please explain how adding the link given by you to the 'external links' of the article, improves the present article and makes it better for readers? We prefer 284: 1234:

My point is that I think it's our duty not only to report on what griefers are, but what people think of them. I'll admit that it's a hard thing to source, though. -

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Game griefing is not completely related to Anonymous. Anonymous is more known for "trolls" or "flaming", not griefing. This should be moved to a video game section.

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Weird choice of words, or word, actually. The primary use of grief and griefing (correctly spelled as grieving - by the recipient, not the cause of that grief), is

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In that case, please add the appropriate emergent gameplay attributes to the article on gang warfare. That is, after all, the real-world equivilant to griefing.

2030:

the main ways to grief are useless teleporters, blocking visions of snipers, stalling, healing enemy spies, taking medkits and metal from engies that need it.

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Microsoft has a good definition of this (no link, sorry!), which covers more about verbal abuse rather than the team killing and techincal aspect of Griefing

1482:

I majorly rearranged the format of this article and added some information. Hopefully it works. I also removed the tone tag because I believe I fixed that -

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P.S. I think this quote from WP founder Jim Wales might be informative: "Perhaps the easiest way to make your writing more encyclopedic, is to write about

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We're not giving them ideas, they already figure this out on their own just fine. We are identifying what griefers are in a proper encyclopedic manner.

1048: 355: 697: 2889:"In EVE, "griefing" refers to various activities, some of which can be argued not to be "griefing" in the classic sense, but parts of valid gameplay." 3888: 3768:

Knowledge is organizing around the actions not the actors. I was looking at types of online misconduct which have Knowledge articles and found these.

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This would seem to support my point, though as I've pointed out, the entire article suffers from a sourcing problem which might be insurmountable. -

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No, what I doubt is the definition of kill stealing that is given here. And why wouldn't it be for this? Its documentation doesn't say anything.

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I don't know exactly why you're going off on me like this, or becoming so angry. I'm not defending a piece of the article (that would violate

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hey guys not to shit on your parade but this article seems to think "griefing" and "trolling" are synonymous and they most certainly are not.

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And Ninjas, another PVP style griefing "Ninjas are people who scan down missioners and warp in, stealing wrecks from the mission runners. "

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https://web.archive.org/web/20071009161333/http://www.gamegirladvance.com/mmog/archives/2002/10/21/online_bullies_give_grief_to_games.html

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I'm sure they are still being made, since it would only require some bad design and lack of gaming experience on the part of a developer.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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No, I'm certain that is a misapprehension. Griefing is the act of abusing other players online. It's true that griefers typically

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shot. A spy will try to at least gain information about an enemy corp, at most try to destroy the alliance." And much more at

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Thanks for that helpful comment. I think that it's reasonable to regard consensus, for the purposes of this requested move, as

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It used to have something in there about that, we formerly called it trains, some people doing it on purpose to grief others.

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Reading skills? The section goes on to state that the stereotype is false. What's NPOV about exploding popular myths? -

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How much you personally enjoy the intended mechanics of a game is both irrelevant and undesired in this assessment.

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days. I still think this term was invented by an Ultima Online documentation writer :) I never saw it before then.

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happen in team games where there is no personal reward in the game, only an emotional reward for getting the kill.

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I also reorganized the article somewhat, since some of the talking points were fragmented, or entirely misplaced.

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

2981:, A little tricky this, as Knowledge doesn't consider user-contributed sites, including Knowledge itself, to be 1507:

After doing some Google Groups searches, it seems that this term showed up in the year 2000 with Ultima Online.

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much appreciate there being non-NPOV in this article and then having you defend them. And no, I don't believe I

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This isn't meant to be a list of every single group, just the ones that are the most unique and well-known. --

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include arbitrary criteria and focuses more on the subjectiveness and even self-labeling nature of griefing.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20090716195738/http://gawker.com/231320/internets-most-wanted-a-rogues-gallery

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Anyone can publish a paper like that, that doesn't mean its notable enough to be included in an article.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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That's not what the dubious tag is for. Do you doubt kill stealing can be used as a form of griefing?

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http://msn-cnet.com.com/Virtual%20magnate%20shares%20secrets%20of%20success/2008-1043_3-6144967.html

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And just so you don't have to actually check the wiki page here is the entire content with citation

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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to write/source that section? Google comes up with plenty of sources for other things as well.

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http://www.gamegirladvance.com/mmog/archives/2002/10/21/online_bullies_give_grief_to_games.html

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become a griefer. I am the one that adjusted one of the methods (the third one, starting with "

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That's part of the game, people knowing that when they sign up for it. So its not griefing.

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until more information is available. However, I have gone ahead and listed this article as a

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No real world equivalent to griefing?!?! Apparently you've never heard of Osama Bin Laden.

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added a caveat re griefing and PvP in MMO's, as there is much misconception on this topic.

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user reached a valid consensus with you, and you both got what you wanted. Per Knowledge's

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This article is woefully out of date without any mention of TF2's Team Roomba griefers.

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feel any urge to jump headlong into the cesspool of drama that shall inevitably result.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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Hi, we would need sources that explicitly state these facts, to include these facts.

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Apteva, I can see that you are "barking up the wrong tree". (not to be rude, though)

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Thats not a fact, thats an opinion. "Griefers" and criminals are not even comparable.

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did a better job. Using accurate language is preferable to having it be inaccurate.

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The "social aspects of griefing" section was entirely redundant, so I deleted it.

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I'm not so sure there is much of a sourcing problem. Why not use the quotes from

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https://web.archive.org/web/20140527213408/https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/Griefing

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I'm leaning against the rename, because it's not the same thing as, for example,

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Perhaps I'm confused. Who is allowed to edit these articles? According to the

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No tag exist. Just discuss it on the talk page. Not everything needs a tag.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

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I don't know how to link to the heading, sorry - its in the Gameplay section)

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I found this article helpful, even if it is overly filled with jargon. I

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I'd concider any gamer who initiates nonconcentual PvP to be a griefer.

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too much text, few examples, fuzzy categorization/generalization.

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was the only group listed in which evidence was actually supplied.

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Can someone please help me clarify on the kiting part of griefing?

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http://gawker.com/231320/internets-most-wanted-a-rogues-gallery

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this title choice matters much for the scope of the article. --

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They are,just look them up on youtube.They actually legendary.

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http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/?id=34

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What games have ever intentionally permitted corpse camping?

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griefing like this is even mentioned later in the article

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2179886

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Ah yeah I see what you mean, its more a means to an end.

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before you decide to add anymore OPINIONS to articles. --

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

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Warcraft III and Second Life that seemed unnecessary.

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is about the actor but I support changing that also.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

1589:. Please cite your sources or don't bother with it. 129:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3697:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3577:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2089:. No further edits should be made to this section. 2588:will give more detailed information and examples. 2341:. No further edits should be made to this section. 1497:timeframe. We tended to just call them "campers". 2620:What was wrong with how I originally worded it? 3683:This message was posted before February 2018. 3563:This message was posted before February 2018. 2919:http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Skullduggery_101 3302:Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2014 8: 3850:Propose renaming to 'griefing' (NOT merging) 2000:Thanks, I will, in the near future. I think 1585:This kind of comment is not useful if it is 2023:Why is this page in the Anonymous section? 1900:Article still lacks consistency, as stated 754:Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures 47: 1347:, so perhaps someone else can help out. -- 176: 75: 3784:are about actions. Currently the article 3643:I have just modified 2 external links on 3527:I have just modified 2 external links on 3468:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment 1335:area of the Discussion page, or file for 3765: 2229:if we wanted a pointlessly long title. 2227:List of activities that define a griefer 3466:Above undated message substituted from 2933:https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/Gate_Camp 2711:, the conflict should not be continued. 698:Pokémon Sword and Shield Expansion Pass 77: 3675:https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/Griefing 2891:https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/Griefing 3849: 2844:Request addition to Industry Response 897: 7: 2094:The result of the move request was: 537: 523:Five Nights at Freddy's: Help Wanted 123:This article is within the scope of 3811:I think this definition is outdated 1118: 201: 66:It is of interest to the following 3884:Low-importance video game articles 3451: 3447: 2948:http://en.wikipedia.org/Eve_Online 2848:I propose the following addition: 1676:Why does article glorify griefing? 1402:"Gamers don't want any more grief" 920:The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 14: 3647:. Please take a moment to review 3531:. Please take a moment to review 2508:What should I tag it with, then? 1672:Great article, guys. Nice job :) 1603:We need to de-weasel this article 143:Knowledge:WikiProject Video games 3889:WikiProject Video games articles 3766:Talk:Griefer#Requested_move_2012 3454:. Further details are available 3441: 3400: 3309: 909: 896: 536: 466: 146:Template:WikiProject Video games 110: 100: 79: 48: 19: 3879:Start-Class video game articles 3553:Corrected formatting/usage for 1953:Hope these edits were helpful, 1400:Davies, Martin (June 15, 2006) 1314:article linked from the article 1119:Microsoft's Griefing Definition 163:This article has been rated as 26:This article was nominated for 2584:How's that? The blue link to 1667:06:42, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1318:Dissecting griefer dysfunction 1128:17:37, 23 September 2005 (UTC) 944:Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 1: 3865:21:45, 16 December 2022 (UTC) 2761:00:06, 27 December 2013 (UTC) 2062:00:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC) 1852:13:54, 4 September 2008 (UTC) 1810:15:55, 17 December 2009 (UTC) 1781:14:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC) 1750:08:51, 3 September 2008 (UTC) 1594:17:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC) 1580:16:53, 19 February 2007 (UTC) 1534:17:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC) 1523:17:16, 19 February 2007 (UTC) 1199:21:51, 26 December 2007 (UTC) 1149:23:29, 16 November 2008 (UTC) 1101:10:02, 23 February 2011 (UTC) 907: 894: 534: 464: 458: 409: 248: 194: 137:and see a list of open tasks. 3844:19:59, 30 October 2022 (UTC) 3828:18:11, 25 October 2021 (UTC) 3764:Previous similar proposal - 3751:06:04, 24 October 2017 (UTC) 3515:00:16, 10 October 2014 (UTC) 3480:22:46, 16 January 2022 (UTC) 2795:Just my person thoughts... — 2688:22:50, 2 December 2013 (UTC) 2320:18:43, 5 December 2012 (UTC) 2300:23:41, 2 December 2012 (UTC) 2281:17:18, 2 December 2012 (UTC) 2253:00:00, 2 December 2012 (UTC) 2217:23:27, 1 December 2012 (UTC) 2193:17:18, 2 December 2012 (UTC) 2162:22:20, 1 December 2012 (UTC) 2143:21:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC) 2107:14:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2046:01:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC) 2014:23:41, 26 January 2010 (UTC) 1996:02:01, 26 January 2010 (UTC) 1981:18:49, 24 January 2010 (UTC) 1965:06:57, 24 January 2010 (UTC) 1929:16:24, 13 October 2009 (UTC) 1512:10:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC) 1502:23:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC) 465:Featured content candidates 30:on 18/1/2007. The result of 3429:17:08, 22 August 2014 (UTC) 3396:14:58, 21 August 2014 (UTC) 3367:13:19, 21 August 2014 (UTC) 3353:13:19, 21 August 2014 (UTC) 3332:to reactivate your request. 3320:has been answered. Set the 3221:16:24, 21 August 2015 (UTC) 2836:02:39, 7 January 2014 (UTC) 2805:23:37, 6 January 2014 (UTC) 2788:23:24, 6 January 2014 (UTC) 2769:Griefing Prevention Section 1473:23:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC) 904:No did you know nominations 3905: 3714:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3640:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3631:12:07, 25 March 2017 (UTC) 3594:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3524:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2409:20:07, 28 March 2013 (UTC) 1936:Explanation of Large Edits 1702:02:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC) 1556:16:33, 20 April 2009 (UTC) 1352:05:23, 27 March 2006 (UTC) 1325:05:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC) 1308:04:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC) 1288:01:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC) 1253:18:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC) 1239:12:44, 25 March 2006 (UTC) 1226:17:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC) 1210:17:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC) 1173:21:54, 19 March 2006 (UTC) 908:Reviews and reassessments 169:project's importance scale 3802:15:25, 20 June 2019 (UTC) 3202:15:29, 29 July 2015 (UTC) 1895:22:39, 17 July 2009 (UTC) 1635:17:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 1451:15:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC) 1442:22:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC) 1415:11:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC) 983: 535:Good article nominations 457: 247: 192: 175: 162: 95: 74: 3762:Support move to griefing 3286:06:54, 27 May 2014 (UTC) 3251:19:31, 26 May 2014 (UTC) 3185:07:15, 27 May 2014 (UTC) 3165:18:51, 26 May 2014 (UTC) 3135:18:31, 26 May 2014 (UTC) 3022:18:12, 26 May 2014 (UTC) 2995:17:11, 26 May 2014 (UTC) 2965:16:38, 26 May 2014 (UTC) 2931:And on Gate Camping see 2903:And from the below link 2878:02:54, 21 May 2014 (UTC) 2863:02:26, 21 May 2014 (UTC) 2334:Please do not modify it. 2082:Please do not modify it. 1870:14:32, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1836:16:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC) 1725:16:34, 23 May 2008 (UTC) 1620:14:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC) 1571:the server degenerates. 1492:Origin of the Slang Term 1369:18:21, 20 May 2007 (UTC) 838:Mario Party: Island Tour 560:Puff-puff (onomatopoeia) 477:Mario Party: The Top 100 3636:External links modified 3520:External links modified 2649:20:34, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2630:19:22, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2612:17:35, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2546:17:33, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2518:17:30, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2504:17:14, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2473:17:07, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2459:17:05, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2430:16:54, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 2205:List of famous griefers 1110:Cheese with that whine? 956:A Space for the Unbound 796:The Great Giana Sisters 446:Minecraft – Volume Beta 197:Video games WikiProject 182:Video games WikiProject 126:WikiProject Video games 2793:Addition to the above: 2709:policy on edit warring 2660:Concerning this edit. 1316:specifically the part 1043:translation from japan 866:Bejeweled (video game) 56:This article is rated 3458:. Student editor(s): 2360:Thank you very much. 987:Articles that need... 3695:regular verification 3575:regular verification 1431:make use of exploits 598:Shin Megami Tensei V 462:No major discussions 3685:After February 2018 3565:After February 2018 2943:And from Knowledge 2068:Requested move 2012 1615:believes this). -- 1464:"griefing groups"? 1294:what people believe 149:video game articles 3756:Proposed move 2019 3739:InternetArchiveBot 3690:InternetArchiveBot 3619:InternetArchiveBot 3570:InternetArchiveBot 3456:on the course page 674:Yoshi's New Island 118:Video games portal 62:content assessment 3715: 3595: 3336: 3335: 2886:Sure, here ya go 2381: 2367:comment added by 2036:comment added by 1885:comment added by 1838: 1826:comment added by 1800:comment added by 1727: 1715:comment added by 1663: 1587:Original Research 1562:Griefers of Scale 1546:comment added by 1420:abuse of features 1201: 1189:comment added by 1139:comment added by 1091:comment added by 1078: 1077: 1074: 1073: 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2606: 2603: 2600: 2597: 2594: 2591: 2540: 2537: 2534: 2531: 2528: 2525: 2498: 2495: 2492: 2489: 2486: 2483: 2453: 2450: 2447: 2444: 2441: 2438: 2417: 2403: 2400: 2397: 2394: 2391: 2388: 2362: 2350: 2345: 2332: 2247: 2244: 2241: 2238: 2235: 2232: 2117: 2080: 2070: 2031: 1938: 1922: 1880: 1877: 1818: 1795: 1678: 1652: 1650:Too much jargon 1643: 1605: 1564: 1541: 1494: 1480: 1461: 1422: 1393: 1166: 1158: 1134: 1121: 1112: 1086: 1083: 1058: 979: 932:Pokémon Channel 914: 906: 905: 901: 893: 884: 870: 856: 842: 828: 824:Visions of Mana 814: 800: 786: 772: 758: 744: 730: 716: 702: 688: 664: 650: 636: 622: 578: 564: 550: 541: 533: 471: 463: 460: 455: 436:Pokémon Emerald 411: 408: 401: 382: 363: 344: 250: 243: 200: 148: 145: 142: 139: 138: 116: 111: 109: 89: 60:on Knowledge's 57: 12: 11: 5: 3902: 3900: 3892: 3891: 3886: 3881: 3871: 3870: 3851: 3848: 3847: 3846: 3812: 3809: 3805: 3804: 3792:Blue Rasberry 3786:Internet troll 3757: 3754: 3733: 3732: 3725: 3678: 3677: 3669:Added archive 3667: 3659:Added archive 3637: 3634: 3613: 3612: 3605: 3558: 3557: 3551: 3543:Added archive 3521: 3518: 3487: 3484: 3438: 3435: 3434: 3433: 3432: 3431: 3338: 3334: 3333: 3314: 3303: 3300: 3299: 3298: 3297: 3296: 3295: 3294: 3293: 3292: 3291: 3290: 3289: 3288: 3262: 3261: 3260: 3259: 3258: 3257: 3256: 3255: 3254: 3253: 3231: 3230: 3229: 3228: 3227: 3226: 3225: 3224: 3223: 3205: 3204: 3170: 3169: 3168: 3167: 3117: 3116: 3115: 3114: 3113: 3112: 3111: 3110: 3109: 3108: 3103: 3091: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3086: 3085: 3084: 3083: 3082: 3069: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3065: 3064: 3063: 3062: 3061: 3060: 3048: 3047: 3046: 3045: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3041: 3031: 3030: 3029: 3028: 3027: 3026: 3025: 3024: 3002: 3001: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2970: 2969: 2968: 2967: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2922: 2921: 2914: 2911: 2907: 2898: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2881: 2880: 2845: 2842: 2841: 2840: 2839: 2838: 2797:71.211.189.108 2780:71.211.189.108 2770: 2767: 2766: 2765: 2764: 2763: 2745: 2744: 2743: 2742: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2725: 2724: 2723: 2722: 2715: 2714: 2713: 2712: 2701: 2700: 2699: 2698: 2691: 2690: 2656: 2653: 2652: 2651: 2635: 2634: 2633: 2632: 2615: 2614: 2581: 2580: 2574: 2565: 2564: 2559: 2557: 2556: 2555: 2554: 2553: 2552: 2551: 2550: 2549: 2548: 2416: 2413: 2412: 2411: 2349: 2346: 2344: 2343: 2329:requested move 2323: 2322: 2304: 2303: 2302: 2255: 2219: 2200: 2199: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2165: 2164: 2112: 2110: 2092: 2091: 2077:requested move 2071: 2069: 2066: 2065: 2064: 2038:98.248.199.196 2021: 2020: 2019: 2018: 2017: 2016: 1937: 1934: 1927:comment added 1915:129.115.224.23 1887:90.191.175.243 1876: 1873: 1855: 1854: 1817: 1814: 1792: 1791: 1790: 1789: 1788: 1787: 1786: 1785: 1784: 1783: 1759: 1758: 1757: 1756: 1755: 1754: 1753: 1752: 1731: 1730: 1729: 1728: 1677: 1674: 1671: 1651: 1648: 1642: 1639: 1638: 1637: 1627: 1617:201.50.253.154 1604: 1601: 1599: 1597: 1596: 1563: 1560: 1537: 1536: 1515: 1514: 1493: 1490: 1488: 1479: 1476: 1460: 1457: 1456: 1455: 1454: 1453: 1421: 1418: 1392: 1389: 1388: 1387: 1386: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1382: 1381: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1377: 1376: 1375: 1374: 1373: 1372: 1371: 1361: 1296:, rather than 1290: 1268: 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1263: 1262: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1232: 1191:142.179.73.188 1180: 1179: 1165: 1162: 1157: 1154: 1153: 1152: 1120: 1117: 1111: 1108: 1106: 1082: 1079: 1076: 1075: 1072: 1071: 1068: 1067: 1064: 1063: 1060: 1059: 1057: 1056: 1051: 1046: 1040: 1034: 1028: 1022: 1016: 1010: 1004: 984: 981: 980: 978: 977: 964: 952: 940: 928: 915: 903: 902: 892: 891: 877: 863: 849: 835: 821: 807: 793: 779: 765: 751: 737: 723: 709: 695: 681: 671: 657: 643: 629: 615: 605: 595: 585: 574:Tina Armstrong 571: 557: 542: 532: 531: 519: 507: 495: 485: 472: 461: 456: 454: 453: 443: 433: 423: 416:Neo Geo Pocket 412: 407: 406: 387: 368: 349: 330: 317: 304: 291: 278: 265: 251: 245: 244: 242: 241: 236: 231: 226: 221: 216: 211: 206: 193: 186: 185: 173: 172: 165:Low-importance 161: 155: 154: 152: 135:the discussion 122: 121: 105: 93: 92: 90:Low‑importance 84: 72: 71: 65: 54: 40: 39: 32:the discussion 24: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3901: 3890: 3887: 3885: 3882: 3880: 3877: 3876: 3874: 3867: 3866: 3862: 3858: 3857:BiophysicsGuy 3845: 3841: 3837: 3836:BiophysicsGuy 3832: 3831: 3830: 3829: 3825: 3821: 3817: 3810: 3808: 3803: 3800: 3795: 3793: 3787: 3783: 3779: 3778:Cyberbullying 3775: 3771: 3767: 3763: 3760: 3759: 3755: 3753: 3752: 3747: 3742: 3741: 3730: 3726: 3723: 3719: 3718: 3717: 3710: 3704: 3700: 3696: 3692: 3686: 3681: 3676: 3672: 3668: 3666: 3662: 3658: 3657: 3656: 3654: 3650: 3646: 3641: 3635: 3633: 3632: 3627: 3622: 3621: 3610: 3606: 3603: 3599: 3598: 3597: 3590: 3584: 3580: 3576: 3572: 3566: 3561: 3556: 3552: 3550: 3546: 3542: 3541: 3540: 3538: 3534: 3530: 3525: 3519: 3517: 3516: 3513: 3512: 3485: 3483: 3481: 3477: 3473: 3469: 3463: 3461: 3457: 3444: 3436: 3430: 3427: 3421: 3415: 3411: 3399: 3398: 3397: 3394: 3393: 3371: 3370: 3369: 3368: 3364: 3360: 3356: 3354: 3350: 3346: 3343: 3331: 3328:parameter to 3319: 3315: 3308: 3307: 3301: 3287: 3283: 3279: 3274: 3273: 3272: 3271: 3270: 3269: 3268: 3267: 3266: 3265: 3264: 3263: 3252: 3248: 3244: 3239: 3235: 3232: 3222: 3218: 3214: 3213:72.128.208.82 3209: 3208: 3207: 3206: 3203: 3199: 3195: 3190: 3189: 3188: 3187: 3186: 3182: 3178: 3174: 3173: 3172: 3171: 3166: 3163: 3162: 3140: 3139: 3138: 3137: 3136: 3132: 3128: 3125: 3124: 3123: 3122: 3121: 3120: 3119: 3118: 3107: 3104: 3101: 3100: 3099: 3098: 3097: 3096: 3095: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3079: 3078: 3077: 3076: 3075: 3074: 3073: 3072: 3071: 3070: 3058: 3057: 3056: 3055: 3054: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3050: 3049: 3039: 3038: 3037: 3036: 3035: 3034: 3033: 3032: 3023: 3019: 3015: 3010: 3009: 3008: 3007: 3006: 3005: 3004: 3003: 2996: 2992: 2988: 2984: 2980: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2973: 2972: 2971: 2966: 2962: 2958: 2954: 2949: 2945: 2944: 2942: 2941: 2940: 2939: 2934: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2920: 2915: 2912: 2908: 2905: 2904: 2902: 2901: 2900: 2899: 2892: 2888: 2887: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2879: 2875: 2871: 2867: 2866: 2865: 2864: 2860: 2856: 2852: 2849: 2843: 2837: 2834: 2833: 2811: 2810: 2809: 2808: 2807: 2806: 2802: 2798: 2794: 2790: 2789: 2785: 2781: 2777: 2768: 2762: 2758: 2754: 2749: 2748: 2747: 2746: 2739: 2738: 2737: 2736: 2729: 2728: 2727: 2726: 2719: 2718: 2717: 2716: 2710: 2705: 2704: 2703: 2702: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2692: 2689: 2686: 2685: 2662: 2659: 2658: 2654: 2650: 2646: 2642: 2637: 2636: 2631: 2627: 2623: 2619: 2618: 2617: 2616: 2613: 2610: 2609: 2587: 2586:kill stealing 2583: 2582: 2578: 2577:Kill stealing 2575: 2573: 2570: 2569:Kill stealing 2567: 2566: 2562: 2561: 2560: 2547: 2544: 2543: 2521: 2520: 2519: 2515: 2511: 2507: 2506: 2505: 2502: 2501: 2479: 2476: 2475: 2474: 2470: 2466: 2462: 2461: 2460: 2457: 2456: 2434: 2433: 2432: 2431: 2427: 2423: 2414: 2410: 2407: 2406: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2378: 2374: 2370: 2369:192.33.240.95 2366: 2358: 2354: 2347: 2342: 2340: 2335: 2330: 2325: 2324: 2321: 2317: 2313: 2308: 2305: 2301: 2297: 2293: 2288: 2284: 2283: 2282: 2278: 2277: 2276: 2270: 2269: 2268: 2263: 2259: 2256: 2254: 2251: 2250: 2228: 2223: 2222:Against merge 2220: 2218: 2214: 2210: 2206: 2202: 2201: 2194: 2190: 2189: 2188: 2182: 2181: 2180: 2175: 2171: 2170: 2169: 2168: 2167: 2166: 2163: 2159: 2155: 2151: 2147: 2146: 2145: 2144: 2140: 2139: 2138: 2132: 2131: 2130: 2125: 2120: 2115: 2109: 2108: 2104: 2100: 2097: 2090: 2088: 2083: 2078: 2073: 2072: 2067: 2063: 2059: 2055: 2051: 2050: 2049: 2047: 2043: 2039: 2035: 2027: 2024: 2015: 2011: 2007: 2003: 1999: 1998: 1997: 1993: 1989: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1978: 1974: 1969: 1968: 1967: 1966: 1962: 1958: 1954: 1951: 1948: 1945: 1942: 1935: 1933: 1930: 1926: 1920: 1916: 1910: 1906: 1903: 1898: 1896: 1892: 1888: 1884: 1875:needs cleanup 1874: 1872: 1871: 1867: 1863: 1858: 1853: 1849: 1845: 1841: 1840: 1839: 1837: 1833: 1829: 1825: 1815: 1813: 1811: 1807: 1803: 1802:12.86.230.202 1799: 1782: 1778: 1774: 1769: 1768: 1767: 1766: 1765: 1764: 1763: 1762: 1761: 1760: 1751: 1747: 1743: 1739: 1738: 1737: 1736: 1735: 1734: 1733: 1732: 1726: 1722: 1718: 1714: 1708: 1707: 1706: 1705: 1704: 1703: 1699: 1695: 1689: 1686: 1682: 1675: 1673: 1669: 1668: 1664: 1658: 1649: 1647: 1640: 1636: 1633: 1628: 1624: 1623: 1622: 1621: 1618: 1614: 1610: 1602: 1600: 1595: 1592: 1588: 1584: 1583: 1582: 1581: 1578: 1577:AbstractClass 1572: 1568: 1561: 1559: 1557: 1553: 1549: 1545: 1535: 1532: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1524: 1521: 1520:AbstractClass 1513: 1510: 1506: 1505: 1504: 1503: 1500: 1491: 1489: 1486: 1485: 1484:Arathwindmere 1477: 1475: 1474: 1471: 1467: 1458: 1452: 1449: 1445: 1444: 1443: 1440: 1436: 1432: 1428: 1427: 1426: 1419: 1417: 1416: 1413: 1409: 1408: 1403: 1398: 1390: 1370: 1367: 1362: 1359: 1358: 1355: 1354: 1353: 1350: 1346: 1342: 1338: 1333: 1328: 1327: 1326: 1323: 1319: 1315: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1306: 1302: 1299: 1295: 1291: 1289: 1286: 1282: 1278: 1277: 1276: 1275: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1271: 1270: 1269: 1256: 1255: 1254: 1251: 1247: 1242: 1241: 1240: 1237: 1233: 1229: 1228: 1227: 1224: 1220: 1217: 1213: 1212: 1211: 1208: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1200: 1196: 1192: 1188: 1177: 1176: 1175: 1174: 1171: 1163: 1161: 1155: 1150: 1146: 1142: 1141:67.160.77.255 1138: 1132: 1131: 1130: 1129: 1126: 1116: 1109: 1107: 1104: 1102: 1098: 1094: 1093:120.156.5.103 1090: 1080: 1055: 1052: 1050: 1047: 1044: 1041: 1038: 1035: 1032: 1029: 1026: 1023: 1020: 1017: 1014: 1011: 1008: 1005: 1002: 998: 994: 991: 990: 989: 988: 982: 975: 971: 969: 965: 962: 958: 957: 953: 950: 946: 945: 941: 938: 934: 933: 929: 926: 922: 921: 917: 916: 912: 889: 887: 881: 878: 875: 873: 867: 864: 861: 859: 853: 850: 847: 845: 839: 836: 833: 831: 825: 822: 819: 817: 811: 808: 805: 803: 797: 794: 791: 789: 783: 780: 777: 775: 769: 766: 763: 761: 755: 752: 749: 747: 741: 738: 735: 733: 727: 726:Hotline Miami 724: 721: 719: 713: 710: 707: 705: 699: 696: 693: 691: 685: 684:Dr Disrespect 682: 679: 675: 672: 669: 667: 661: 658: 655: 653: 647: 644: 641: 639: 633: 630: 627: 625: 619: 618:Kim Kitsuragi 616: 613: 609: 606: 603: 599: 596: 593: 589: 586: 583: 581: 575: 572: 569: 567: 561: 558: 555: 553: 547: 544: 543: 529: 525: 524: 520: 517: 513: 512: 508: 505: 501: 500: 496: 493: 489: 486: 483: 479: 478: 474: 473: 469: 451: 447: 444: 441: 437: 434: 431: 427: 424: 421: 417: 414: 413: 404: 398: 396: 391: 390:Covet Fashion 388: 385: 379: 377: 372: 369: 366: 360: 358: 353: 350: 347: 341: 339: 334: 331: 328: 326: 321: 318: 315: 313: 308: 305: 302: 300: 295: 292: 289: 287: 282: 279: 276: 274: 269: 266: 263: 261: 256: 253: 252: 246: 240: 237: 235: 232: 230: 227: 225: 222: 220: 217: 215: 212: 210: 207: 205: 202: 198: 191: 188: 187: 183: 179: 178: 174: 170: 166: 160: 157: 156: 153: 136: 132: 128: 127: 119: 108: 106: 103: 99: 98: 94: 88: 85: 82: 78: 73: 69: 63: 55: 51: 46: 45: 37: 33: 29: 25: 22: 18: 17: 3853: 3818: 3814: 3806: 3791: 3782:Astroturfing 3761: 3737: 3734: 3709:source check 3688: 3682: 3679: 3642: 3639: 3617: 3614: 3589:source check 3568: 3562: 3559: 3526: 3523: 3493: 3489: 3464: 3440: 3374: 3357: 3337: 3329: 3318:edit request 3143: 2853: 2850: 2847: 2814: 2792: 2791: 2776:or by adding 2775: 2772: 2666: 2590: 2572: 2563:I changed it 2558: 2524: 2482: 2437: 2418: 2387: 2363:— Preceding 2359: 2355: 2353:rejected. 2351: 2333: 2326: 2312:87.79.208.25 2306: 2273: 2272: 2265: 2264: 2262:Hill Crest's 2257: 2231: 2221: 2185: 2184: 2177: 2176: 2174:Hill Crest's 2135: 2134: 2127: 2126: 2124:Hill Crest's 2111: 2095: 2093: 2081: 2074: 2028: 2025: 2022: 1955: 1952: 1949: 1946: 1943: 1939: 1911: 1907: 1901: 1899: 1878: 1862:92.0.150.111 1859: 1856: 1828:138.163.0.42 1819: 1793: 1717:138.163.0.42 1690: 1687: 1683: 1679: 1670: 1653: 1644: 1641:Bullies ref? 1632:64.141.104.2 1612: 1606: 1598: 1573: 1569: 1565: 1538: 1516: 1495: 1487: 1481: 1462: 1448:82.21.150.24 1434: 1430: 1423: 1407:The Guardian 1405: 1396: 1394: 1331: 1317: 1297: 1293: 1218: 1215: 1181: 1167: 1159: 1156:Weasel words 1122: 1113: 1105: 1084: 1081:MMO Griefing 1007:reassessment 985: 967: 955: 943: 931: 919: 883: 869: 855: 841: 827: 813: 799: 785: 771: 757: 743: 729: 715: 701: 687: 663: 649: 646:Pixel Piracy 635: 632:Miner 2049er 621: 577: 563: 549: 522: 510: 498: 476: 400: 397:participants 394: 381: 378:participants 375: 371:Ryo Sakazaki 362: 359:participants 356: 343: 337: 327:participants 324: 314:participants 311: 301:participants 298: 288:participants 285: 275:participants 272: 262:participants 259: 164: 124: 68:WikiProjects 35: 3770:Shitposting 3425:Let's talk! 3243:Cyphoidbomb 3238:view source 2987:Cyphoidbomb 2870:Cyphoidbomb 2339:move review 2087:move review 2032:—Preceding 1923:—Preceding 1881:—Preceding 1822:—Preceding 1816:Team Roomba 1796:—Preceding 1711:—Preceding 1542:—Preceding 1470:66.56.44.90 1185:—Preceding 1135:—Preceding 1087:—Preceding 1031:screenshots 712:Async Corp. 546:Donkey Kong 426:Screen Rant 340:participant 195:Summary of 184:open tasks: 180:Summary of 140:Video games 131:video games 87:Video games 58:Start-class 3873:Categories 3774:Catfishing 3746:Report bug 3626:Report bug 3452:2 May 2021 3406:Question: 3355:Butterz13 3322:|answered= 2641:Tryptofish 2292:Tryptofish 2267:WikiLaser! 2209:Tryptofish 2179:WikiLaser! 2129:WikiLaser! 2099:Mike Cline 2054:Tryptofish 2006:Tryptofish 1988:Bradridder 1973:Tryptofish 1957:Bradridder 1844:LordZimmer 1773:LordZimmer 1630:weasels?-- 1548:24.2.10.66 1478:Major Edit 1466:DarkWolves 1298:what is so 1214:It simply 993:assessment 782:River Raid 499:The Sims 4 450:discussion 440:discussion 430:discussion 420:discussion 352:Butterfree 199:open tasks 3729:this tool 3722:this tool 3609:this tool 3602:this tool 3419:Anupmehra 3410:Butterz13 3359:Butterz13 3345:Butterz13 2287:currently 2096:Not moved 1609:WP:WEASEL 1349:Antoshi~! 1250:Antoshi~! 1223:Antoshi~! 1170:Antoshi~! 1125:Borgs8472 1025:cover art 1019:infoboxes 660:Ether One 608:Justin Yu 511:Smash Hit 255:GeneRally 3735:Cheers.— 3615:Cheers.— 3472:PrimeBOT 3059:Griefing 2377:contribs 2365:unsigned 2119:Griefing 2034:unsigned 1883:unsigned 1824:unsigned 1798:unsigned 1742:Jesset77 1713:unsigned 1694:Jesset77 1544:unsigned 1412:Wisekwai 1187:unsigned 1137:unsigned 1089:unsigned 1049:creation 488:Ada Wong 402:relisted 383:relisted 364:relisted 345:relisted 333:Dokibird 320:Skycoach 28:deletion 3820:Jessaay 3649:my edit 3645:Griefer 3533:my edit 3529:Griefer 3486:changes 3194:Azrael0 2753:Azrael0 2622:CodeCat 2510:CodeCat 2465:CodeCat 2422:CodeCat 2415:Dubious 2258:Comment 2114:Griefer 1925:undated 1439:Kasreyn 1397:support 1391:Helpful 1322:kotepho 1305:Kasreyn 1285:Kasreyn 1246:WP:NPOV 1236:Kasreyn 1219:neutral 1207:Kasreyn 1054:merging 1033:(8,822) 1013:cleanup 880:Kleavor 810:Pikachu 229:vg talk 219:history 167:on the 3798:(talk) 3408:- Hi, 2307:Oppose 2154:Apteva 1459:Groups 1366:Makuta 1345:WP:PNA 1337:WP:RFM 1281:WP:OWN 1216:is not 1037:photos 968:Tetris 852:Meltan 234:alerts 64:scale. 3510:Focus 3391:Focus 3326:|ans= 3316:This 3160:Focus 3081:NPCs. 2910:isk." 2831:Focus 2741:mind. 2683:Focus 2607:Focus 2541:Focus 2499:Focus 2454:Focus 2404:Focus 2275:BOOM! 2248:Focus 2187:BOOM! 2150:grief 2137:BOOM! 1902:years 1657:Brian 1591:Cshay 1531:Cshay 1509:Cshay 1499:Cshay 1410:. - 1045:(190) 1027:(251) 886:start 872:start 858:start 844:start 830:start 816:start 802:start 788:start 774:start 760:start 746:start 732:start 718:start 704:start 690:start 666:start 652:start 638:start 624:start 588:Birdo 580:start 566:start 552:start 239:purge 224:shell 209:watch 3861:talk 3840:talk 3824:talk 3476:talk 3450:and 3363:talk 3349:talk 3282:talk 3247:talk 3217:talk 3198:talk 3181:talk 3131:talk 3018:talk 2991:talk 2961:talk 2874:talk 2859:talk 2801:talk 2784:talk 2757:talk 2645:talk 2626:talk 2514:talk 2469:talk 2426:talk 2373:talk 2316:talk 2296:talk 2213:talk 2158:talk 2103:talk 2058:talk 2042:talk 2010:talk 2002:this 1992:talk 1977:talk 1961:talk 1919:talk 1891:talk 1866:talk 1848:talk 1832:talk 1806:talk 1777:talk 1746:talk 1721:talk 1698:talk 1662:talk 1607:See 1552:talk 1341:Stub 1195:talk 1164:NPOV 1145:talk 1097:talk 1039:(66) 1021:(19) 249:AfDs 214:edit 204:view 36:keep 34:was 3703:RfC 3673:to 3663:to 3583:RfC 3547:to 3470:by 3324:or 2977:Hi 2331:. 2279:) 2191:) 2141:) 1921:) 1613:who 1437:. 1332:own 1300:." 1258:it. 1231:of. 1015:(8) 1009:(0) 999:) ( 974:rev 961:rev 949:nom 937:nom 925:nom 678:nom 612:nom 602:nom 592:nom 528:nom 516:nom 504:nom 492:nom 482:nom 159:Low 3875:: 3863:) 3842:) 3826:) 3780:, 3776:, 3772:, 3716:. 3711:}} 3707:{{ 3596:. 3591:}} 3587:{{ 3478:) 3462:. 3365:) 3351:) 3330:no 3284:) 3249:) 3219:) 3200:) 3183:) 3133:) 3020:) 2993:) 2963:) 2876:) 2861:) 2803:) 2786:) 2759:) 2647:) 2639:-- 2628:) 2516:) 2471:) 2428:) 2379:) 2375:• 2318:) 2298:) 2290:-- 2215:) 2160:) 2152:. 2116:→ 2105:) 2079:. 2060:) 2044:) 2012:) 1994:) 1979:) 1963:) 1893:) 1868:) 1850:) 1834:) 1808:) 1779:) 1748:) 1723:) 1700:) 1665:) 1554:) 1435:is 1404:, 1364:-- 1197:) 1147:) 1099:) 399:; 380:; 361:; 342:; 3859:( 3838:( 3822:( 3748:) 3744:( 3731:. 3724:. 3628:) 3624:( 3611:. 3604:. 3507:m 3504:a 3501:e 3498:r 3495:D 3474:( 3422:- 3388:m 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