1194:. As a long-graduated alumnus of the University of New South Wales law school I can attest to the autonomy of Australian law schools vis-Ă -vis their university affiliation, though perhaps Griffith's law school is not quite so autonomous as that of the University of Sydney, which is adjacent to the Law Courts and long distant from the main campus. Numerous professional colleagues of mine here in Brisbane are alumni or sessional lecturers at Griffith law school, though, and they concur in the view that the law school is institutionally and by reputation distinct. Some of the faculties at Griffith, be it said, are perhaps not yet of international stature; the law school, however, is increasingly an important institution in its own right, as evidenced by the number of prominent Queensland lawyers who qualified there and by the growing literature of publications by Griffith law school academics.
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Most importantly, the standard for judgment is inherently ambiguous. Perceived status seems especially important. But status is a nebulous, impressionistic quality, and not one that is necessarily appropriate as a basis for judgment in
Knowledge (XXG).(According to my own admittedly original knowledge, Griffith Law School is often very highly rated by observers; but how can we prove a cultural fact such as this?) I think there is a tendency to assume the higher status of older schools, and to judge younger schools accordingly. This does a disservice to the aims of Knowledge (XXG). - Oslo
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657:"Notability" is not a concept that exists in a vacuum. Nor is the concept well described, in the context of wikipedia, by the link you cited. Notability is a matter of comparison and degree. Note the examples I gave--shopping centres and the like. These were comparisons. They help establish what is meant by notability. There is information in the article on the law school that helps us determine whether, in comparison with the examples I gave, the law school is notable.
1230:- sorry, but I don't think that this is a fair response. You may well consider that the reasons given are not strong enough to avoid a merge, fine I have no problem with that, but the the reasons "the autonomy of Australian law schools vis-Ă -vis their university affiliation" and "the law school is institutionally and by reputation distinct" are valid considerations that should be addressed with a view to refutation and not dismissed out of hand.
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1177:- there can be many reasons for a page merge; strongly overlapping content, to provide essential context, the subsidiary article being too small for a standalone page etc but I have not seen a convincing argument in this case. Frankly, the main priority is to develop the main article which requires substantial expansion. Pending that, merging in the Law School would overbalance the main page.
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I hate to be a broken record, but could we see specific reasons given to back up conclusions in these discussions? The law school article has several sections and a good amount of information; this would overwhelm the main university site. Since WP decided overwhelmingly not to delete the law school
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Knowledge (XXG) guidelines: "Before nominating a recently created article, please consider that many good articles started their
Wikilife in pretty bad shape. Unless it is obviously a hopeless case, consider sharing your reservations with the article creator, mentioning your concerns on the article's
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My problem with merging is that
Knowledge (XXG) itself potentially powerfully confers notability on institutions. Given the power and potential self-fulfilling prophecy of Knowledge (XXG) recognition, one needs a great deal of information before it is appropriate to issue a judgment about a school.
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The above is an oddly intemperate review and the judgment of a "complete" lack is especially unusual. Knowledge (XXG) features 2.5 million entries, of which most are considerably less notable than a major law school in
Australia. There are entries on shopping centres, sport coaches, swimmers who
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One last point: There is a very strong political association with law schools. For example, Griffith is considered a highly progressive school. This is another reason why we should tread very carefully when challenging (implicitly or otherwise) the status/notability of schools. It moves editing
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This page includes a logo of an organization, item, or event, and is protected by copyright and/or trademark. It is believed that the use of low-resolution images on the
English-language Knowledge (XXG), hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, of logos for
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well-known and well-respected in the legal community in
Australia. Its members have published in countless independent, third-party publications This is a classic conflict on wikipedia ("Specific criticisms include the encyclopedia's exposure to obvious or subtle vandalism, attempts by strongly
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certain uses involving identification and critical commentary may qualify as fair use under United States copyright law. Any other uses of this image, on
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opinionated editors to dominate articles, inaccurate or sometimes non-existent sourcing for controversial assertions in articles, and edit wars and other types of nonconstructive conflict among editors.") The solution of deleting an article to try to win an editing battle is inappropriate.
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I strongly agree with
Helloannyong, this article has existed for over 1.5 years yet lacks independent third party sources to establish its notability. If the article had only existed for 2 months I would not have nominated it for deletion. You are welcome to comment/contest this deletion.
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shouldn't be a problem as a lot of the material here isn't worth keeping (eg, the staff, student societies and notable alumni. The description of the qualifications offered also seems totally unremarkable for an
Australian university and probably isn't worth keeping either).
1450:) . Precedent exists for GU Law School to have a separate page, as the law schools of many other Australian universities already have their own pages. If we delete/merge GU Law School's page, we might as well apply the same set of shears to the pages of other law schools.
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Reply: Why would you recommend DELETION in response to one user's disagreement with your initial request for more information? Are you now 100% certain that the law school is not notable? Who are you to say so? Why the mean-spiritedness? What is the point of this?
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The bottom line is, (1) notability is comparative, and your picking on this law school is capricious. (It is .) (2) You are evidently ANGRY about this disagreement--hence recommending DELETION. This is hardly the way to deal impartially with other people's work.
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competed and took no medals in the
Olympics in 1952, etc. Please leave this law school site alone, as you have left other law schools alone. The information here, most of which is completely uncontroversial, is useful to students researching institutions.
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Michellecrisp, you've got to address why you think the independent primary sources added are not independent primary sources. The SSRN citation is about as authoritative as you can get on this subject. Please don't just conclude; address the evidence.
933:-- This is getting a little strange. The page you cite says nothing about "numerous" sources, and indeed its gist suggests nothing of the sort. Why are you pushing this then? The third opinion has now said the tag should go, so I will keep it deleted.
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site, much of the material has been adjudged important enough to keep. Why bother with the inelegant editing move of stuffing all the same information into another article? Why make it harder to search and find? - Oslo
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I really think this action is unwarranted at this time. With four supporters of merge and three opponents on this page, it is a "no consensus" position. In such cases, the status quo remains. I'm restoring the article.
734:. Your claim of "well-known and well-respected in the legal community in Australia. Its members have published in countless independent, third-party publications" has not been backed up with independent third party
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and given the overwhelming consensus for a merge at the AfD this . Precedentdiscussion is a bit irrelevant. All sourced information should be moved as soon as possible and this page redirected. --
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discussion page, and/or adding a "cleanup" template, instead of bringing the article to AfD. If the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a good candidate for AfD."
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votes hold equal weight? this merge discussion has only be opened for 3 days. Suggest wait a few more days before closing it off. Although I'm sure 1 person will object to this.
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1346:(outdent) Based on the discussion both here and on the AfD, I see enough consensus to merge the pages. I've done so; please take a look and tell me what you think. —
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So now there's a lot of redundant text between this article and the main Griffith University page. Are you going to revert my edits there as well? —
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Surely this can be solved easily by referring to the precedent (WP:OSE) of several other Australian law schools having their own pages (see
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Although I originally proposed deletion, I do support merging with elements of this article retained in the Griffith Uni article.
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The article has been around since October 25, 2006. My advice to you is to register your complaint on the AfD page
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https://web.archive.org/20070923081510/http://www.griffith.edu.au/er/gazette/brighterfuture/alumni/brettmason.html
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
776:, any article can be put up for deletion. The AfD is already started, so don't remove the tag from this page. —
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the notability of this law school. Simply being a law school of a major university is not enough. Please see
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here "they concur in the view that the law school is institutionally and by reputation distinct". We need
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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Please (Michellecrisp) show where I made any of those defences or took anything personally. - Oslo
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Notability_%28organizations_and_companies%29#Primary_criterion
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I think the AfD takes cares of the notability issue, so I don't think the tag is necessary. —
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Why don't you try responding to my arguments, rather than attacking me. Please give it a try.
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This is a university department, and doesn't really exist independantly of its university.
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linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Griffith_University_Law_School
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which must be unique to the usage of THIS image in EACH article in which it is used.
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when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an
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and all the other pages would link directly to the section of the main article. —
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gives the complete impression of bias and attachment to the subject and classic
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1211:: So... aside from your personal experiences, why shouldn't we merge this? —
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The merge result was mixed, not a consensus overwhelming or otherwise. - Oslo
638:, you haven't actually stated any reasons for notability of this law school.
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sufficient reasons for merge from a number of editors were expressed in the
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http://www3.griffith.edu.au/03/ertiki/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=12301
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http://www.griffith.edu.au/er/gazette/brighterfuture/alumni/brettmason.html
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in the article. Until such, the tags remain, feel free to add references.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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That page does not mention any such principle. Sorry, Orderinchaos.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Avoiding_common_mistakes#Deleting
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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debates perilously close to insoluble political conflict. - Oslo
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That this article is linked to from the image description page.
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Image copyright problem with Image:Griffith University logo.png
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on Knowledge (XXG). Please visit the project page to join the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Just to note that it was a non-admin closure of the AfD.
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sources strengthen the notability of the subject. as per
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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So it's been proposed that we merge this article into
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581:This article has not yet received a rating on the
1131:: It wouldn't be any harder to search and find.
1469:. I think there's a fair argument for a merge.
1825:Low-importance Education in Australia articles
1713:This message was posted before February 2018.
1605:This message was posted before February 2018.
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1444:***Comment***
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1333:Nick Dowling
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1192:Oppose merge
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1175:Oppose merge
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68:WikiProjects
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1512:explanation
1277:—Preceding
1252:—Preceding
1232:TerriersFan
1179:TerriersFan
1050:—Preceding
868:—Preceding
707:Please see
684:—Preceding
663:—Preceding
553:legal field
58:Start-class
1789:Categories
1776:Report bug
1535:FairuseBot
1498:The image
600:Notability
540:Law portal
469:discussion
92:Queensland
1759:this tool
1752:this tool
1651:this tool
1644:this tool
1299:A lot of
1158:Mattinbgn
1082:WP:NOHARM
1078:WP:USEFUL
1007:. In the
272:, or the
171:Australia
158:Australia
96:Education
87:Australia
1765:Cheers.—
1657:Cheers.—
1567:cbignore
1504:fair use
1328:WP:UNDUE
1279:unsigned
1254:unsigned
1052:unsigned
979:Farside6
892:Numerous
882:contribs
870:unsigned
698:contribs
686:unsigned
677:contribs
665:unsigned
606:reliable
465:colleges
28:deletion
1689:my edit
1667::Online
1596:checked
1561:my edit
1403:Annyong
1353:Annyong
1297:Comment
1272:Comment
1247:Comment
1228:Comment
1218:Annyong
1209:Comment
1196:Masalai
1167:Comment
1142:Annyong
1129:Comment
1123:Comment
1090:WP:BHTT
1086:WP:LOSE
1070:Comment
1018:Annyong
919:Annyong
823:Annyong
783:Annyong
634:Please
407:on the
380:Schools
329:Schools
268:at the
198:on the
1575:nobots
1422:WP:BRD
774:WP:AFD
732:WP:OWN
610:verify
463:, and
64:scale.
1400:Hello
1350:Hello
1215:Hello
1139:Hello
1015:Hello
916:Hello
820:Hello
780:Hello
726:Your
1600:true
1541:. --
1484:talk
1456:talk
1430:talk
1426:WWGB
1388:talk
1370:talk
1366:WWGB
1337:talk
1313:talk
1287:talk
1262:talk
1236:talk
1200:talk
1183:talk
1112:talk
1108:WWGB
1098:talk
1088:and
1060:talk
1036:talk
983:talk
964:and
939:talk
904:talk
896:WP:V
878:talk
847:talk
816:. —
814:here
800:talk
772:Per
759:talk
744:talk
717:talk
711:...
694:talk
673:talk
644:talk
621:talk
298:help
291:The
160:and
36:keep
34:was
1733:RfC
1703:to
1625:RfC
1587:to
577:???
558:Law
512:Law
399:Low
190:Low
1791::
1746:.
1741:}}
1737:{{
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