657:
The guidelines suggested this was appropriate. Michelle has erased the tag. Can anyone advise what is appropriate as there is no consensus favouring deletion? (While you are at it, Michelle and I seem to disagree about whether the notability tag on the article should remain. Since this debate began I changed the article to add a very important third party source establishing notability. Is it safe to say, now, that we should simply leave the site alone and turn to debating the notability of other articles now?
679:
how
Australian universities are run (eg, that this is a university department rather than an independant 'school' and that it doesn't award its own degrees and post-graduate qualifications). The schools deletion sorting list is becoming a bit of a problem, IMO, as any nominations of post-primary schools attracts the same faces asserting that the school is notable.
342:
A company, corporation, organization, team, religion, group, product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If
873:
Michelle, my point about refutation is this: When you present an argument, and I then argue it is wrong, it's good form either to drop the argument or keep at it only after refuting my counter-argument. As it is, I believe you are repeating points without acknowledging their weaknesses. For example,
638:
must be satisfied first. There seems to be some misconception here that this law school is like a North
American law school. In Australia, that is rarely the case, as they are predominantly undergraduate (often with students doing combined degrees with other schools), and are no more autonomous than
254:
Agree with above, there is no general rule about medical or law schools being more notable than other parts of a university. This has to be assessed on a case a case basis. In
Australia, law and medical schools generally fall under Faculties and are no more autonomous than say an engineering school.
656:
What happened to favouring case-by-case reasoning, Michelle? As I said, the website shows that the school is a graduate school in large part. But why does that even matter? More important, since not a single person here (besides
Michelle) has said this site should be deleted, I added a "close" tag.
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of
Griffith University, just as its School of Environment is part of Griffith University, and the School of Arts at the university I presently study at is part of that venerable institution. This is a very different situation to that found outside of Australia, where separate law schools do indeed
1253:
I don't know that I follow your reasoning. The bottom line is that
Griffith Law School is a law school, no more or less than any other law school. Law schools have special prestige status within most universities where they are present and, most importantly, have the formal status allowing them to
741:
The process is not supposed to be a vote so much. It's a debate. I think the onus is on the single 'delete' voice to address and refute the arguments thus far made against deletion. Also, it would be useful for those recommending merge to address the recent addition of the arguably quite important
678:
A number of editors, including myself, have voted to merge this with the article on the uni, which is pretty much the same as deletion as the article will become a redirect. It seems that the 'all schools are notable' crowd is charging into this debate, and I doubt that they have much knowledge of
1387:
I think it's important to note that
Griffith Law School runs at least three research centres, the Socio-Legal Research Centre, the Centre for Credit and Consumer Law, and the Australian Centre for Intellectual Property in Agriculture. I have just added these to the school's
564:
I have checked the Social
Sciences Research Network and found the law school is #74 in the list of 100 Top International Law Schools. I believe this is measured by reference to impact (citations, etc.) of faculty scholarship. I'll add this independent source directly to the
1294:
Perhaps your school is worthy of inclusion on WP too; I can't see how separateness matters to notability. There is already ample evidence on WP that law schools in
Australia are unique, separate, what have you; but again, the question of "separateness" is an irrelevancy.
1087:
There are three references for this article: the speech - which appears to be incidental coverage, a somewhat relevant piece on indigenous education at the law school, and a piece which is restricted. Im simply not convinced that this is sufficient to base an article on.
1168:
Right. What I'm saying is, having already asserted a justification (ie. the citations) at my end, the onus in the present context is now on you to explain why it doesn't work, using more than conclusory assertion. It is always your onus to back up what you say.
1235:
In
Australia (and I've been a student for a fairly long time, and did once study law) Departments are within Schools which are within Faculties which are (at some places) within Divisions. There's *dozens* of "schools" within any University. In fact,
874:
why persist with the "notable alumni" line of argument (which, in my opinion, is arbitrary) while ignoring the independent citation I added (which, as I argued and you ignored, is a very solid source)? There is not much sense in that.
1159:- it is always the onus of whoever wants the content to justify its addition or retention. This is a fairly fundamental principle on Knowledge (XXG) and I'm genuinely surprised to see someone attempting to argue the reverse.
613:- I fail to see why this came here. We don't delete tertiary, degree awarding bodies and the question of a possible merge to the parent university is a matter for a separate editorial action for which AfD is inappropriate.
543:. This has the benefit of being an easy solution. That way no information is lost and if the subject meets the notability requirements in the future, nothing will prevent it from being split into it's own article.
793:
The fact that it publishes a peer-reviewed journal, the Griffith law review, surely gives it some notability. The article could be better written. Other recent university law schools in Australia, such as
1100:
The 'restricted' piece is the important one. I believe it's not actually restricted; you can get a free log in identity. In any case, not all WP references have to be free and open to all like WP itself
214:
Law schools, just like medical schools etc, are notable--they are of more significance than university departments, as major components of a university with generally a semi-autonomous organisation
1244:
confirms that in order to enrol you enrol through the State tertiary admissions centre into the University under the law programme, so you're not in fact a student of a separate school if successful.
1046:
Law schools arent inherently notable, some may indeed be notable, this one most certainly isnt. It fails WP:CORP. The lack of reliable third-party sources is certainly a worry. Redirect the page to
440:. Too bad it isn't a middle school. If all the middle school inclusionists would line up for graduate schools like they do for middle schools, this discussion would have been speedily closed. --
1133:
They seem on their face related to notability; it is your onus to explain why they aren't. It isn't at all clear how they're "unrelated" (to each other? to notability?) much less that they are
913:
It might be appropriate to distinguish between Australian law schools originating in the 19C, the 1960's and the 1990's. It is unreasonable to expect law schools founded in the 1990s, such as
353:
The article has three or so independent citations. It is incorrect to say there is no evidence. In addition, the block quote above is out of context. There are many other relevant guidelines.
377:. What I am looking for is third party evidence eg from several newspaper or the law society that states that is more than a normal law school. Has it produced notable alumni?
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per Nick. Having said that, there is no reason why university departments can't be notable in their own right, or can't be spun out from over large parent articles. --
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48:. Clearly there is no consensus to delete, as aside from the nominator only one other editor has expressed a desire for deletion. Whether or not to merge the content to
1345:
as a standalone article per the numerous precedents provided above by Mathsci and WWGB, and also on the grounds that this article contains a similar amount of prose as
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Many Australian university departments have their own peer-reviewed journals which put out a few brief issues each year, so this isn't any particular distinction.
1240:
tells me: "Griffith University has 46 schools and faculties, organised into ten study areas." Among others included is the Griffith School of Environment.
1367:
Much of the content needs to be either edited out or trimmed down, so I don't think this is a problem. I personally think the other "precedents" (note
415:. You seem to shy away from the fact that there is little third party evidence of notability. If you want a good law school article to compare look at
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Fiveyears: If it were certain, we wouldn't have the different views represented in this debate. In what ways are the third party sources weak?
724:
may be used in limited circumstances, this AfD has one delete and three merge/redirect comments, so the outcome is far from clear at present.
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is a problem here - its "notability" is stitched together from three entirely unrelated sources, two of which do not strictly speaking meet
759:
It is not my role to refute every counterargument. I am happy to let the process run and await the outcome. Appreciate if you do the same.
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Incorrect: As the article itself notes, the school has graduate and undergraduate LLB programmes. It also has masters and PhD degrees.
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1326:. I don't think there's enough here for the article to stand on its own, but it certainly fits within the larger university page. —
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is an editorial decision and discussion of any such proposal is best conducted on the article's talk page. (non-admin close)
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This is more notable than the great majority of other article topics. It's a useful resource for people studying law.
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the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability
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Is this the case for this institution? Or are you making the case that Law Schools are inherently notable? --
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or the other two already mentioned, to number high court judges or ambassadors amongst their alumni. The
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A quick Google search turned up notable alumni, now added to the article, which should satisfy Michelle.
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Closing a discussion is the role of an administrator, not someone who doesn't want the article deleted.
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it is not a standalone school. If the above argument is true then it follows then every school of
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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article. Further, the school is not a graduate school; it offers undergraduate courses. --
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Again no specific independent third party evidence is provided in the article of meeting
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I don't believe there's enough here to justify it sitting out of the main uni article.
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Michellecrisp, I think these questions are rather arbitrary and not clearly relevant.
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and assertion of "stitching" are similarly conclusory, presented without any backing.
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Someone should probably, then, add a notability tag to the Cambridge law school.
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clearly relevant, any organisation article in Knowledge (XXG) must satisfy
806:, have their own article. Surprisingly there's not one on ANU Law School.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_guidelines_for_administrators
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It's easier to refer to a point someone made when you use her name.
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lists no alumni; there is no article on the faculty of law at the
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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already, merging it in would rather unbalance that article. --
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as an invalid ground for argument) should be deleted too.
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and every university should have its own article, clearly
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will get extremely upset if this article is deleted.
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saw an engineering school or psychology department.
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per the normal practice for university departments.
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notability not established from independent sources
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1443:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1281:exist. This seems like some grown-up version of
157:list of Australia-related deletion discussions
929:. There appear to be no hard and fast rules.
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509:list of Schools-related deletion discussions
925:although there is one on the undergraduate
1008:Please keep discussion to article not me.
507:: This debate has been included in the
155:: This debate has been included in the
586:as notable in its own right. Satisfys
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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1254:confer professional qualifications.
1285:trying to rear its ugly head here.
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1268:"Special prestige status"? Clear
970:It's a law school. It's notable.
804:Monash University Faculty of Law
852:This article seems similar to
468:The school is covered, in the
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68:Griffith University Law School
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1276:law school, it is very much
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1215:Not accurate; it is a law
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1436:Please do not modify it.
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1373:Orderinchaos
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1287:Orderinchaos
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1246:Orderinchaos
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1202:Orderinchaos
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1161:Orderinchaos
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895:Nick Dowling
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681:Nick Dowling
675:
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527:(yada, yada)
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28:
1411:—Preceding
1283:schoolcruft
615:TerriersFan
355:WP:DELETION
1405:otherwise
600:Buzz Me...
1242:This site
828:Melbourne
474:Mattinbgn
305:Mattinbgn
301:WP:USEFUL
239:Mattinbgn
203:Mattinbgn
1413:unsigned
1388:article.
1274:separate
1135:entirely
824:Adelaide
565:article.
545:Farside6
178:Redirect
126:View log
1385:Comment
1351:Stormie
1333:Annyong
1067:Comment
1023:Comment
1006:Comment
989:Comment
972:Rebecca
947:Comment
931:Mathsci
911:Comment
891:Comment
871:Comment
808:Mathsci
757:Comment
739:Comment
718:Comment
698:Comment
676:Comment
654:Comment
636:WP:CORP
628:Comment
562:Comment
483:Comment
466:Comment
413:WP:CORP
409:Comment
392:Comment
375:WP:CORP
371:Comment
351:Comment
322:WP:CORP
314:Comment
297:Comment
252:Comment
235:Comment
134:WP:CORP
93:protect
88:history
1217:School
1139:WP:SYN
1118:WP:SYN
1044:Delete
832:Sydney
822:As do
778:Murtoa
722:WP:NAC
720:While
523:crewer
449:crewer
132:fails
121:delete
97:delete
1330:Hello
1122:WP:RS
1093:Years
1055:Years
968:Keep.
774:Merge
593:Sting
539:with
537:Merge
199:Merge
124:) – (
114:views
106:watch
102:links
54:RMHED
16:<
1421:talk
1403:Keep
1394:talk
1355:talk
1343:Keep
1301:talk
1278:part
1260:talk
1225:talk
1175:talk
1147:talk
1107:talk
1090:Five
1075:talk
1052:Five
1031:talk
1014:talk
997:talk
976:talk
955:talk
935:talk
899:talk
880:talk
862:talk
844:talk
840:WWGB
834:and
812:talk
791:Keep
782:talk
765:talk
748:talk
730:talk
726:WWGB
709:talk
685:talk
663:talk
645:talk
619:talk
611:Keep
588:WP:N
584:Keep
571:talk
549:talk
518:brew
505:Note
491:talk
444:brew
438:Keep
425:talk
400:talk
383:talk
362:talk
330:talk
316:see
299:see
284:talk
276:Keep
261:talk
222:talk
212:Keep
190:talk
168:talk
153:Note
142:talk
110:logs
84:talk
80:edit
58:talk
46:Keep
1322:to
1196:to
1101:is.
836:UWS
590:.--
514:--
511:.
303:--
217:DGG
180:to
159:.
1423:)
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162:—
140:(
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118:(
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78:(
56:(
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