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celebrations of 11 July Battle of the Boyne, 23 June, Saint John's Eve night, BeatLl, Haalloween, Fninish ehannus. In summer, e herein the UK bawe have rbeque and no effigy, July, and on
November 5th, and only November 5th we have Guy Fawkes on the Guy Fawkes bonfire site with an effigy. We already have
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bonfire night of 5 November. Options could include "Bonfire night in the UK" or "Bonfire night (UK)" â but those might be too specific given that this article includes a section called "In other countries". My preference would be "Bonfire night (Guy Fawkes)", where "Bonfire night" is the common name,
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Current usage is overwhelmingly 'Bonfire Night', and not 'Guy Fawkes Night'. The ramifications of religiously motivated assassination plots in the early 17th century have become increasingly forgotten, and irrelevant, but the bonfire and the fireworks remain relevant. Plus the article badly needs
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as I don't think the common name is clear cut. There are certainly regional differences. Google Trends has "Guy Fawkes Night" tracking as more popular than "Bonfire Night" in the UK. Britannica lists it as Guy Fawkes, as does
English Heritage. Away from commonname, there is more to the night than
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Could be mentioned, for the benefit of
Western European readers as the Continent (outside Eastern Orthodox Christendom) used the Gregorian calendar. However the date was not moved when Britain joined the Gregorian calendar in 1752, as it continued to be held on 5th November on the new calendar
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1. Guy Fawkes Night, and Guy Fawkes Day is observed in many countries, not just the UK. 2. Guy Fawkes is a very specific bonfire for a very specific purpose. We have other bonfire nights for a purpose, often referred to uniquely, none are referred to as bonfire night, we have
Eleventh Night
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I'm saying that I think the proposed name is too vague as it assumes too much that is untrue. Although some people in some locations may use "Bonfire Night" to refer to their Guy Fawkes Night celebrations, that does not mean that the terms are synonymous worldwide. "Guy Fawkes Night" is
1699:- specifically Precision: "The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects." Having two articles, bonfire night and bonfire night (uk) - or some variation - creates unnecessary ambiguity, where guy fawkes night is more precise.
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demonstrated significant opposition, and while that was quite some time ago now, it's enough to suggest that a unilateral move is not the way to go. If you do feel that there is strong evidence supporting a change, I'd suggest elaborating on that in a formal move request.
1551:. Contrary to the assertion above, it shows that "Bonfire Night" is a vastly more popular search term than "Guy Fawkes Night" in the UK. Perhaps you compared two different things, search term vs celebration? If so, apples v oranges, which doesn't tell us anything.
1675:"The night of 5 November, on which bonfires are lit to commemorate the anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot of 1605, such celebrations typically also featuring a firework display and, traditionally, the burning of an effigy of Guy Fawkes (or formerly, of the Pope)"
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in the UK. Last time, the suggestion was "Bonfire night" which was rejected as too broad, partly on the basis that around the world there are many nights that could be so called. But in the UK, "bonfire night" means not just any bonfire night but
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Your logic here is mistaken. In order to be understood in the easiest manner and by the widest possible readership the government, in a safety document, must follow common usage. Otherwise they would run the risk of not being understood.
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I notice the word conspiracy in the start of the article. This words strikes me with a different resonance since the pandemic. I notice the article was last edited 3 days ago? But why? It is long history, how can that change?
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Struggling to understand the rationale for your !vote here, as you seem to be suggesting that the proposed title is some sort of 'rebranding' that you find objectional . Do you have evidence to bring that "Bonfire Night" is
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See my post below, for the use of 'Bonfire Night' in a UK government publication. I imagine that the government would follow popular usage in a publication aimed at, amongst other things, public safety.
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been commonly referred to as
Bonfire Night, certainly throughout my half-century of life in the UK. It's not some neologism invented relatively recently to avoid offending anyone as with Winterfest. --
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My previous assertion is entirely true, because 'Bonfire Night' and 'Guy Fawkes Night' are entirely interchangeable in
British usage. With the proviso that 'Bonfire Night' is more commonly used.
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1867:, I apologize, I did misquote it it does say that "Editors should also consider all five of the criteria for article titles outlined above.". Nonetheless, the current name is more in line with
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as overwhelmingly the common name. I have lived in several areas of
Britain. Bonfire night has been its common name in all of them. I'm not sure I've ever seen it called Guy Fawkes night.
1723:. When you include both terms "Guy Fawkes Night" and "Guy Fawkes Day", combined they are more commonly used than "Bonfire Night". So I think retaining "Guy Fawkes" in the title is best.
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the article should move to its common name. A geographical identifier "in the United
Kingdom" is required because a previous requested move to merge and overwrite the international page
1133:'Conspiracy' has a defined meaning and is definitely applicable to a plot involving multiple people to assassinate a king. A provable conspiracy is not the same as a conspiracy theory.
1927:, Bonfire night in the UK, most of the title is redundant and only serves to confuse. But better just Guy Fawkes or we are cancelling history and maybe Wiki shouldn't be doing that.
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I see that is mainly about the UK night with minor mentions of other countries. In fact this article devotes more space to other countries. I would support an undisambiguated move.
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But it is at least some type of evidence. All anyone has presented for 'bonfire night' is that it is "overwhelmingly" the common name. Source: Trust me, bro.
1970:. This isn't just another name for 'bonfire night', it is a cultural event in parts of the UK, which often involves a celebration around a bonfire, as with
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It would appear that you go against UK government usage, I imagine that trumps
Knowledge (XXG) guidelines, which I think you have misapplied here anyway.
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2166:. You also don't seem to realise that "Guy Fawkes Night" would be generally something celebrating Mr Fawkes, whereas this is entirely the opposite. --
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Nobody is "cancelling history". Bonfore night is what we call it in the UK. We don't call it Guy Fawkes night. In any case, that would suggest we were
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article can then include more of the things that are not UK related. Out of interest, the OED lists two meanings for "Bonfire night": a general one
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Youâre missing the pointâ this isnât about linguistic nationalism but rather the fact that you will not stop saying the same thing over and over!
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website says that "According to Google Trends, itâs most popularly known as âBonfire Nightâ rather than âFireworks Nightâ or âGuy Fawkes Night'."
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bonfires, and some events don't have a bonfire - all bonfires will have Guy Fawkes, but not all Guy Fawkes celebrations will involve a bonfire.
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Since the gunpowder plot was listed on an old-style Julian calendar date, shouldn't a new-style
Gregorian date be listed (in brackets) as well?
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I do think it would be worth considering a formal move request once more, as there's no absolutely no doubt that "Bonfire night" is indeed the
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1275:. The article is plainly discussing Bonfire Night in the UK and very few in the UK use Guy Fawkes Night to describe the celebration.
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
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So, you're relying on local convention in your area to dictate commonname, when there's a whole country to take into account?
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and instead there was an article called "Couples Love Day". After name change there will be other follow up edits necessary.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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I think this is such a big UK celebration that it should have its own article and namespace, so I will request a move to
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1648:(5 November), when the cut off is midnight; New Yearâs Eve, Diwali and Chinese New Year, when the cut off is 1am."
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from? Because it completely goes against pretty much every RM I've ever taken part in (and that's thousands). --
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Not at all. Referring to Guy Fawkes Night as "Bonfire Night" is like rebranding Christmas as "Winterfest". --
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Bonfire Night in my neck of the woods has no bonfire, just fireworks, but its still called Bonfire Night.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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mhfsghrgzrgfhgrwfzgdwperfpwfwehfdgfauhsf9p8uw48ofshg8wzAP89sofh wFWUfgĹ9 WFRĹĂGuwrg WFR GĹFĂHG sofp9qe
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It is another name for 'Bonfire Night' and one in less common use, that is the whole point of this.
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If we're wanting old terms we could always revert to its orginal name of "Gunpower Treason Day"Â :)
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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and "(Guy Fawkes)" distinquishes it from other bonfire nights that don't share the same history.
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and I am loathe to move it to yet another confusing âx (in sense y)â title because some people
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The age of the term doesn't excuse it, and it is too vague, which the current name is not. --
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Referring to Guy Fawkes Night as "Bonfire Night" is like rebranding Christmas as "Winterfest".
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I'm going to notice this, for people in the UK its a lot like we didn't have an article on
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But it is a British tradition. Non-British usage is irrelevant to the discussion.
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I wonder when, in which edit, the word conspiracy appeared in the description.
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and unambiguous, the proposed name is not as it requires disambiguation. --
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A rather bizarre comment from an American, given this is an article on a
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the common name. The fact it needs a disambiguator is irrelevant. --
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trumps everything unless it cannot be made unambiguous or there are
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Highly unlikely. Do you have evidence for that assertion, I wonder?
1671:"A night on which bonfires are lit in celebration or commemoration"
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Knowledge (XXG) featured topics Gunpowder Plot featured content
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Knowledge (XXG) doesn't just cover British Usage though. --
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RM, Guy Fawkes Night â Bonfire Night in the United Kingdom,
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Celebrating with bonfires and fireworks: A community guide
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Knowledge (XXG):Unreviewed featured articles/2020/2010â2015
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Facts from this article were featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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Indeed it is. And we in the UK call it bonfire night! --
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generally only applies when the five criteria are met.
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384:. If you can update or improve it,
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1636:) 14:44, 15 February 2023 (UTC) '
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1294:, I've reverted this move. A
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1233:19:35, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
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938:Template:WikiProject Religion
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802:and see a list of open tasks.
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42:Put new text under old text.
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1590:Britannica is American. --
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19:This is the
2237:topic that
2045:in the UK?
1945:celebrating
1760:WP:CRITERIA
1701:OwainDavies
1697:WP:CRITERIA
1517:OwainDavies
1464:OwainDavies
1429:OwainDavies
1204:move review
276:written in
148:free images
31:not a forum
2309:Categories
2261:Dronebogus
2247:Necrothesp
2221:Dronebogus
2168:Necrothesp
2136:Necrothesp
2062:WP:PRECISE
1990:Necrothesp
1949:Necrothesp
1899:Necrothesp
1869:WP:CONCISE
1865:Necrothesp
1851:Necrothesp
1725:Rreagan007
1710:edited at
1610:Necrothesp
1604:Actually,
1592:Necrothesp
1526:edited at
1481:Desertarun
1473:edited at
1450:Desertarun
1438:edited at
1411:Desertarun
1386:Desertarun
1319:Desertarun
1301:Nikkimaria
1292:Desertarun
1277:Desertarun
1255:Desertarun
1171:Cloptonson
1093:discussion
1083:discussion
1079:Withhdrawn
862:Interfaith
510:column on
343:identified
1873:Estar8806
1772:Estar8806
1764:Concision
500:Main Page
287:travelled
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2211:specific
2110:Urselius
2082:Urselius
2010:Urselius
1968:Ex nihil
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1804:Urselius
1790:Urselius
1650:Urselius
1630:Urselius
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1135:Urselius
984:inactive
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910:Religion
857:Religion
805:Holidays
796:holidays
752:Holidays
618:FA-class
488:Promoted
469:Promoted
299:artefact
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2287:english
2239:British
2235:British
2164:opinion
2150:DeFacto
2096:DeFacto
2066:DeFacto
2024:DeFacto
1976:DeFacto
1808:DeFacto
1663:Support
1625:Support
1580:Support
1497:on the
1407:Support
1224:Sceptre
1169:system.
959:on the
832:on the
727:on the
700:England
691:England
647:England
502:in the
428:Process
303:analyse
295:defence
235:90Â days
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
2207:Oppose
2131:always
1964:Oppose
1934:nihil
1920:Oppose
1756:Oppose
1721:Oppose
1424:Oppose
1369:Huliva
624:scale.
582:, and
450:Listed
431:Result
374:series
291:centre
283:colour
126:Google
336:is a
191:Index
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
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1124:talk
921:and
919:good
425:Date
376:, a
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2243:not
2156:).
2102:).
2072:).
2039:not
2030:).
1982:).
1930:Ex
1814:).
1762:- "
1586:not
1338:the
1290:Hi
951:Top
923:1.0
824:Top
719:Top
176:TWL
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