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for 13 years, ignoring rumors of his extramarital affairs because she did not witness evidence of any of them during that time frame. After years of infidelity, Kollmar became careless, to the extent that in 1953 he brought a male lover into the third-floor master bedroom of his and
Dorothy's new home, a five-story townhouse on Manhattan's East 68th Street. After Kilgallen caught the two men in a compromising position, she and Kollmar decided to stay married strictly for business. Their business included a talk radio show they broadcast from home every day that brought them large salaries and that promoted Broadway shows produced by Kollmar. "Dorothy and Dick", as their radio listeners knew them, discussed Ray's singing style on their program, according to a profile of Ray in the Saturday Evening Post edition dated July 26, 1952.
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1745:, I agree that either/or appears to be the modern practice (as per AHD & Cambridge), while my possibly confirmation-bias-afflicted self likes the OED entry. I too would probably write "Catholic Mass", though with the same pen I would write "her funeral mass". My impression is that modern usage sits on the fence. But my read of the MOS (see above) would have us avoid changing
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spoke about or acknowledged the rumors that he fathered
Kilgallen's third child. Throughout the 1980s when Eichler managed Ray, historians of popular music did not consider Ray important enough to research his private life, so Eichler was not familiar with the eyewitness accounts that Mark Shaw discovered years later, and Eichler did not ask Ray about possible fatherhood.
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I find it challenging to give a purely objective reason, but I see the context of this article's passage as different from, say, a more titular presentation of the term. In presenting the title of an event, I'd go with cap, for example in a poster or announcement: "All are invited to celebrate Easter
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According to lawyer and researcher Mark Shaw, Ray's relationship with
Dorothy Kilgallen produced her youngest child Kerry Kollmar, whom her husband Richard Kollmar disowned after Kilgallen's death in 1965. In two books that Shaw has authored, he claims that Kilgallen remained faithful to her husband
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In 1954, Kilgallen gave birth to a baby boy who was photographed for magazines and newspapers with her holding him, never with a father. Decades later, Ray often mentioned
Kilgallen to his manager Alan Eichler and remained devastated by her unexpected death in 1965. According to Eichler, Ray never
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Today's additions of two
Wikimedia Commons files give Dorothy Kilgallen a voice. Here is what she said reacting to the guilty verdict for Dr Sam Sheppard. These are her own words. She is well-known as a wordsmith. Editors here have dismissed one particular Kilgallen biographer as a conspiracy
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I read a synopsis of the book's claims and they are patently fringe. Unless multiple independent sources recognized by the community as reliable in their own right, (ex the NY Times, Washington Post etc.) endorse the work, I don't see any chance of it being accepted. The synopsis strikes me as
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The wp article does capitalize the term throughout (though some of the titles cited there do not). While I would take issue with some of capitalized instances in that article text, I can at least see an argument for preferring capitalization in an article specifically about a liturgical
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The book makes assertions that are widely regarded as fringe. Unless it is reviewed by multiple sources that are recognized by the community as being reliable, that in turn attest to the book's reliability, I would strongly oppose accepting it as a source for anything in the article.
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I think that until there is a firm consensus that something long accepted as a proper noun is not, that it should be treated as such. In this case we have the added potential for causing offense to those who may perceive the failure to capitalize as a form of disrespect.
1719:(which I personally accept as being one step removed from scripture), state that reference to specific liturgical practices such as the Catholic Mass and/or Orthodox Divine Liturgy are proper nouns and therefore should normatively be capitalized. -
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It was once explained to me that the Mass is a single event occurring continuously since the Last Supper and that as single event it is a proper noun. If one is a believer, that explanation would make sense
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We are not here to promote an individual or provide them a posthumous platform for their writings etc. The front page image is a good find and adds to the article. But this is not an archive for her work.
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theorist and his books as fringe sources. They are right. Can
Dorothy the wordsmith play a part in her own article? Other Knowledge (XXG) articles have digital scans from very old newspapers. The
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Shaw's book has come up so many times here, might it be helpful (if allowed by PAG) to create a banner for this page along the lines of "Numerous discussions on this Talk page have established the
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Curious as to why you draw a style distinction between a âMassâ said during religious holidays (Christmas/Easter/etc) and a âmassâ said during a funeral? Isnât it the same ceremony during both?
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My admittedly non-exhaustive research did not show long acceptance of this noun being proper as opposed to common; rather it showed the word being treated both ways, weighted towards common.
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As a matter of practical reality, I think either way has become de facto acceptable practice in modern times. However almost all of the guidelines I have looked at, including the
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There doesn't seem to be much on her personal life. It appears that the Mark Shaw book "The
Reporter who knew too much" may cover this if somebody has access. For example the
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Those reviews will be important. No one knows whether it makes fringe assertions unless they have read it. It might not agree with all the assertions in Mark Shawâs books.
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I get that. What if the announcement read: âAll are invited to attend a
Funeral Mass in remembrance of Jane Doe at St. Cuthbertâs Church next Friday at 2:00 PMâ?
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dictionaries both give the capitalization as either/or (see links), and my OED shows its modern usage in lowercase (I don't have online access).
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Egads, man, don't you know there are civility rules here? I would certainly gasp and break out the Holy Red Pen of Saint
Pedanticus!
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If I were writing about "Christmas Mass" or "Easter Mass", I would capitalize the term; but for a person's funeral, I would write
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Mass at Notre Dame next week". At the same time, I'd write "For me, a mass conducted in Latin has a more hallowed feel to it".
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and related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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To that point, surely it's not hard to think of a reason why a British dictionary (OED) might not capitalize "Mass"...
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article is one of them. Dorothy wrote for that newspaper. It's time for her article to include her own words.
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Here is the Google Books page for the Dorothy Kilgallen book issued by PageTurner Books International.
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Knowledge (XXG) guidelines would say to use lowercase, since capitalization in such a context is not
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in this article's context, just as it would advise against badmintonning (word?)
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Is a book a fringe source if it is published by PageTurner Books International?
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Thanks to all for the input. Has everyone looked at the links I provided above?
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Does this publisher sell only fringe sources? It has a new Kilgallen product.
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It is. And the wiki for the specific Mass we're talking about (a funeral or
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in this article, where it currently appears in the first paragraph of the "
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Many previous discussions on this Talk page have established a
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column on 5 April 2004. The text of the entry was as follows:
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Here is how this publisherâs website describes the company.
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A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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uses this word as an example of the difference between
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that "The Reporter Who Knew Too Much" by Mark Shaw is
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1315:Ad Orientem
1299:Brent Brant
1271:Ad Orientem
294:section on
291:On this day
245:not a forum
148:free images
31:not a forum
1875:Categories
1854:consistent
1390:SimonLyall
1004:Journalism
995:journalism
951:Journalism
258:refactored
1677:Capitonym
1512:Cambridge
1451:consensus
715:Biography
655:Biography
412:is rated
346:... that
332:Main Page
286:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1629:Blueboar
1601:Blueboar
1556:Blueboar
496:Illinois
487:Illinois
443:Illinois
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1807:natemup
1578:natemup
1484:natemup
1225:on the
1136:on the
1031:on the
886:on the
630:on the
603:Chicago
596:or the
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348:actress
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288:in the
264:at the
203:90Â days
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
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852:Alerts
420:scale.
306:, and
126:Google
1492:Death
778:Texas
401:This
191:Index
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1862:talk
1837:Eric
1811:talk
1785:talk
1763:Eric
1757:and
1751:Mass
1747:mass
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162:FENS
136:news
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