Knowledge (XXG)

Talk:Holodomor denial

Source đź“ť

508: 487: 753: 773: 890: 518: 801: 927: 264: 630: 403: 592: 382: 733: 413: 234: 640: 351: 300: 1126:
I think the last three sources directly support the statements. The LOC gives the definition of Holodomor denial, and the Dobczansky paper discusses it in a secondary source. The Serbyn article discusses denial of the genocidal nature. These should be satisfactory at least to support the text. If you
1459:
Michael is an admin, which imply some above-average familiarity with our behavioral rules. And he is expected to know know that false accusation of canvassing is a personal attack. Therefore, I think Michael should strike his accusation and explicitly apologize for knowingly violating our behavioral
1177:
Given that I showed that you're reverting to return your edit against 4 editors, you really should just remove Serby and try to build consensus for lead changes in the talk. Your edits are very edit wary. Please show some consideration for other editors and not continuously revert to defend your own
1130:
I think this is necessary, because without this the definition “ Holodomor denial . . . is the claim that the Holodomor . . . did not occur” is completely inadequate and compromises the article. Deniers have stopped claiming that no famine occurred since the 1980s. But they continue to be active and
1540:
page provides a sourced explanation. This is the rejection of basic facts and concepts that are undisputed, well-supported parts of the scientific consensus on a subject. Based on that, Duranty and Tottle were indeed historical denialists with regard to Holodomor, and they have been described as
1463:
And, as soon as my attention has been drawn to this topic, let me explain that not only Serbyn, but all other sources, except LOC have been used incorrectly in the lede. Indeed, all of them just confirm that the very fact of Holodomor was denied by Soviet authorities and by some authors. However,
1278:
You're completely ignoring that you've reverted to return your edit 4 times against 4 editors. It's not up to me to prove that your source isn't relevant for the lead, it's for you to make consensus for your edit in the Talk. I wish you'd show some consideration for the editors and administrators
1223:
And the last few paragraphs of Serbyn’s 1989 article also discuss the historiographical change of the time: the newly open legitimate debate of the famine as genocide, contrasted with the new character of denial. He refers not only to Tottle but to contemporary Holodomor deniers in general. His
1219:
Most of the rest of the article discusses the Tottle denialism, and is too specific for the lead, but of course it is directly relevan, too. Tottle’s Soviet-funded and -authored work represents the exact crux when Moscow’s campaign of denialism shifted from famine denial, quickly to denial of
1047:
Also please add a quote to the source on how it says "Holodomor denialis the claim that the Holodomor, a 1932–33 man-made famine that killed millions in Soviet Ukraine, did not occur or diminishing its scale and significance". Because, as I put in the edit, such a sentence is not there. Thank
1762:
Sorry, I'm on mobile this very second, so I didn't write as eloquently as I wished I did. I meant that you hadn't gotten one supportive second editor, despite two posts to the Reliable Sources Noticeboard, and adding a paragraph to the lead really should get consensus of other editors per
1405:
Trying to use sources that refer to Holodomor as either a broad Ukrainian cultural Genocide, a deliberate famine on the Ukraine, or as a famine not intentionally caused and then using that to claim scholarly consensus on the definition that best suits your POV is Righting Great
1863:
The source is already cited in the article. Since you object to it in the lead, I’ll put it in the body. Since you object to a link to an online version, I’ll just cite the source. I think your baseless obstruction is making the article worse than it would be otherwise.
1231:, credulous and dishonest intellectuals like the British writer Bernard Shaw, the French politician Edouard Herriot). It took fifty years to debunk their big lie; how long will it take the defenders of truth to dispose of the big lie promoted by Tottle 1563:
is key. Serbyn 1989 makes it clear that Holodomor denial includes denial that it is genocide. Dobczansky 2009 makes it clear that there is no confusion between academic debate about the determination of the Holodomor as genocide and Holodomor denial.
1073:
You summarized your removal with: “This source test, in its entirety, is a general review of Douglas Tottle's book Fraud, Famine and Fascism. It is not an effort to describe general Holodomor denial. It's not helped by being reprinted by a
1743:. Why did you revert me with “Reverting the last addition. It seems a bit much to include this in the lead after two posts to the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. Please gain consensus of other editors in the talk page before adding. Thanks”? 833:, a collaborative effort to improve Knowledge (XXG)'s coverage of significant alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the 1835:
Neither of them did, although GreenC's comment was a bit more supportive that others should "read it". No one said it was reliable. Your second post got zero replies, so instead of dropping it, you reinsert a paragraph back into the
1500:, an apology for tedious editing would be appreciated, for no other reason that I'd like not to have to go through this again. I would not bring another editor through this hassle, and it's unfair for you to bring us through it. 742: 602: 1079:
You’re right that the source and statement don’t go together well. I don’t believe this was what I originally wrote in the article either. I believe this is my preferred edit and version (after a quick search of the
782: 610: 164: 1948:
so please demonstrate consensus to remove it before doing so. There is no objection to it. Even Stix1776 hasn’t made any concrete objection to it, but merely tried to remove it because they don’t like the facts it
1063:
Hi. Your first link is broken. If you want to talk about the procedure, then it would be helpful to collect the diffs with edit summaries of the deletions that I reverted, and links to any discussions that
1601:
Well, perhaps that aspect is not necessarily defining but part of diminishment. Certainly Holodomor denial literature does deny its genocidal nature without allowing for academic debate on the question.
1044:. It seems especially unfair that editors need to go through this effort when you should be the one defending your addition to the lead in the talk, not us having to go to the talk to remove your edit. 1418:
We all have biases but we need to have the introspection and self control to look inwards at our biases and converse with peers to try to be as little influenced by our biases as possible on this site
2034: 1227:
In the light of all the evidence we now possess on the famine, how bleak and ignoble appear the statements of genocide deniers of the Stalin era (unscrupulous journalists like Walter Duranty of the
1174:
I fixed the link. I asked for a quote from the Serby to back up the the text and the lead from you, and I didn't get it. No one is able to judge the OR claims, as you're claiming an entire article.
1305:
work. You can’t just name three other editors who aren’t here and claim to speak for them making you a one-person majority. I’ve replied to this further in your separate thread on my talk page.  —
2059: 2054: 762: 606: 320: 2079: 2074: 1440:". In addition, keeping in mind that I am a former participant of this discussion, pinging me is totally in agreement with our guidelines. Second, Stix1776 pinged me in a response to 1587:"Holodomor denial includes denial that it is genocide". Yes, it would be the case for Armenian genocide, but debatable here per sources (personally, I do agree it was a genocide). 1541:
such in sources. Just to clarify, there is a general consensus that the famine was "man-made" . Someone denying this like Tottle is a denialist. However, the question if it was a
1782: 1214:
are the spiritual heirs of the first famine negators, Stalin and those who helped him carry out the most heinous of crimes against the Ukrainian nation or to deny its existence.
868: 1409:
Additionally in these arguments you make arguments against sources that you believe may have USSR or Russian ties while also arguing explicitly for sources from Ukrainian ties.
1470:
If some fact X was denied by some authors, and that fact is verifiably described by sources A, B, and C, that does not allow use the sources A,B, and C for the statement like:
2049: 330: 270: 2094: 858: 225: 158: 1415:
Knowledge (XXG) is NOT for righting great wrongs. And the disrespect for wikipedia's policy and violation of the revision rules really shows that you aren't keeping NPOV.
574: 2099: 1332:
SYNTH removed. The refs do not use the term "Holodomor denial" as a separate term. LOC says nothing about genocide. Serbin does not use the term "Holodomoir denial"
1070:
I apologize for the cursory revert. I should have looked more closely at the text, which had been changed from my version. I think the text can be improved instead.
822: 1536:
for referencing, I think we can cite him. If it is about what constitutes "denial" in this case, I think one should follow the definition what "denialism" is. Our
834: 2069: 2064: 2024: 1843:. It's dropping a huge chunk of new info, not in the article, but in the lead. The lead should be a summary of article. And you're the only editor pushing this. 564: 90: 1438:
it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion
2089: 469: 2029: 1117:
did not occur, or (especially since evidence of its existence became public in the 1980s) the diminishment of its scale and significance, including the
829: 806: 723: 540: 1783:
Knowledge (XXG):Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 417#Is the Library of Congress Subject Headings a reliable source on defining “Holodomor denial”
1716: 2009: 1110: 459: 55: 96: 2044: 1251:
If you refuse to see this source’s relevance to the definition of the subject, then we appear to be at an impasse, and I suggest you proceed with
713: 2019: 1131:
there is so much written by them and about them that LOC created two new subject headings in 2009. So our definition should not leave this out.
2014: 1960:
to Academia, and it was posted there by the author and presumably copyright holder, so please do not remove it without justification either.
531: 492: 435: 2084: 2039: 699: 41: 675: 1412:
Additionally you explicitly call that dertain things should or shouldn't be included in the article based on combating the "big lie".
110: 2004: 115: 31: 908: 426: 387: 278: 85: 970: 965: 960: 953: 948: 943: 507: 486: 221: 217: 213: 209: 205: 201: 179: 671: 653: 597: 362: 286: 146: 76: 1592: 1550: 1181:
I'm not relitigating the LOC source. It was three editors against Mzajac. Bring up an RfC if you wish to push this issue.
896: 306: 1003: 1351:
Since we’re canvassing, other editors previously discussing the definition of the subject or the mentioned sources: @
233: 196: 140: 120: 982: 244: 1817:
The comment by whatamIdoing showed general support, and the comment by GreenC specifically supported the paper.
1715:
Part of the above wasn’t settled, so I’ve posted another discussion specifically about the Dobczansky paper at
1588: 1546: 1372: 1248:
The big lie has shifted from denying famine to denying genocide. Holodomor genocide denial is Holodomor denial.
539:(USSR) on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join 1936:
It's not published or self-published on academia.edu merely hosted there. If you like you can remove the URL—
1847: 658: 368: 1456:" Therefore, it would be quite correct to bring some of those users here. That is exactly what Stix1776 did. 136: 752: 1764: 1487: 1482:
That is a chemically pure example of synthesis. And, frankly speaking, the whole article is a synthesis.
1432:
Please, correct me if I am wrong, but the accusation of canvassing is a pure personal attack. First, per
1298: 282: 66: 434:
on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
186: 1840: 274: 81: 1820:
You haven’t said why you oppose this source or the cited statement. I guess you just don’t want it.  —
1957: 1433: 350: 299: 1423: 1195:
Understanding might require reading the source, but here are some key parts of the Serbyn article:
772: 523: 172: 1746:
This is not a reason. There was no objection and positive remarks about this source at the RSN.  —
1685:"Affirmation and Denial: Holodomor-related Resources Recently Acquired by the Library of Congress" 1337:
This mirrors what I said about your source. I would never put another editor through this tedium.
1927: 1884: 1854: 1808: 1772: 1505: 1464:
they do not speak about that fact as about some separate phenomenon called "denial of Holodomor".
1342: 1284: 1186: 1053: 988: 249: 1849:, academia.edu isn't a reliable source. Do you not have a DOI or link to the original?? Thanks. 1909: 1483: 1376: 1321: 152: 62: 1901: 1767:. Is this really so important, relevant, and reliable that it should be included in the lead? 705: 1968: 1869: 1825: 1793: 1751: 1724: 1659: 1607: 1569: 1392: 1384: 1368: 1364: 1310: 1279:
that need to deal with this edit warring. Honestly I wouldn't put you through this. Thanks.
1264: 1160: 984: 926: 904: 246: 35: 17: 1294: 1922:
Does the Reliable Source noticeboard ruling that academia.edu isn't reliable mean nothing?
1118: 1302: 1256: 1252: 1879:
Yes, can you please include a doi or some way of linking to the actual article. Thanks.
1937: 1419: 1356: 1352: 1097: 821: 800: 418: 289:
exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
1963:
These objections without any basis are obstruction and they are getting disruptive.  —
1998: 1923: 1880: 1850: 1804: 1768: 1740: 1501: 1360: 1338: 1280: 1200:
No longer able to negate the famine as such, Tottle questions its genocidal character
1182: 1049: 645: 1155:
I’d prefer to cite the original, but I don’t have access, and this is sufficient.  —
1919: 1905: 1533: 1380: 536: 629: 591: 402: 381: 1135: 1965: 1895: 1866: 1822: 1790: 1748: 1721: 1604: 1566: 1497: 1467:
In reality, not such topic (outside of the LOC catalogue) exists in literature.
1443: 1389: 1307: 1275: 1261: 1171: 1157: 1021: 732: 635: 513: 408: 1537: 1325: 1089: 1042: 1025: 986: 309:. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: 248: 1973: 1940: 1931: 1913: 1888: 1874: 1858: 1830: 1812: 1798: 1776: 1756: 1729: 1717:
Knowledge (XXG):Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Source for “Holodomor denial”
1612: 1596: 1574: 1554: 1545:
would be a more legitimate dispute, and we have a separate page about it.
1509: 1491: 1427: 1397: 1346: 1315: 1288: 1269: 1190: 1165: 1057: 1137:
is not a blog entry. It’s a republished text that’s cited at the bottom:
1660:"Holodomor denial, LC Linked Data Service: Authorities and Vocabularies" 431: 1239:, for one, have the courage to take it up and make the last stand of 1093: 662: 1684: 1220:
man-made causes, denial of genocidal intent, and denial of genocide.
1134:
Regarding “It's not helped by being reprinted by a blog”: the source
670:
Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
1532:
I am not sure what you guys disagree about. If it is about using
263: 1476:
Denial of X is the claims that X never occurred (ref A, B, C).
989: 920: 884: 708:
in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
704:
This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
344: 294: 258: 250: 26: 1454:
and claim to speak for them making you a one-person majority.
1210:, but the essence of the ideological trappings is the same. 771: 751: 731: 1024:, you were the one that added the Serby source to the lead 1945:
Firstly, the article has been cited here for seven years,
281:. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If 1235:? The challenge is before the Ukrainian community. Will 1148:
962 Bloor Street West, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M6H 1L6
535:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the 1946: 1744: 1081: 1075: 1040: 1038: 1036: 900: 171: 2035:
Start-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings
895:
On 26 May 2022, it was proposed that this article be
1900:
I support including the source in the article. I'll
430:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2060:
Science and education in Russia task force articles
2055:
Start-Class Russia (science and education) articles
1402:
Michael you keep showing POV here as well as Synth.
1198:Tottle is a self-confessed famine-genocide denier. 1109:tags on this page without content in them (see the 1067:
But it might be more useful to talk about the lead.
185: 44:for general discussion of the article's subject. 1330: 1127:insist on more sources, I can try to find them. 2080:Politics and law of Russia task force articles 2075:Start-Class Russia (politics and law) articles 1952:Secondly, the source is not academia.edu, but 743:the science and education in Russia task force 997:This page has archives. Sections older than 843:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Alternative Views 277:while commenting or presenting evidence, and 8: 2050:Low-importance Start-Class Russia articles 795: 586: 481: 376: 2095:Mid-importance Alternative Views articles 783:the politics and law of Russia task force 1450:You can’t just name three other editors 549:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Soviet Union 1788:What is your objection to this edit?  — 1632: 797: 588: 483: 378: 348: 2100:WikiProject Alternative Views articles 1475: 1007:when more than 3 sections are present. 846:Template:WikiProject Alternative Views 2070:History of Russia task force articles 2065:Start-Class Russia (history) articles 7: 2025:Mid-importance Soviet Union articles 827:This article is within the scope of 651:This article is within the scope of 529:This article is within the scope of 424:This article is within the scope of 1839:My issues with this is that it's a 1101: 537:Union of Soviet Socialist Republics 444:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Ukraine 367:It is of interest to the following 34:for discussing improvements to the 2090:B-Class Alternative Views articles 1146:Kobzar Publishing Company Limited 706:project-independent quality rating 684:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Russia 25: 2030:WikiProject Soviet Union articles 1027:, and you reverted to restore it 1001:may be automatically archived by 552:Template:WikiProject Soviet Union 61:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 1119:claim that it was not a genocide 1088:( . . . ) is the claim that the 925: 888: 820: 799: 763:the history of Russia task force 638: 628: 590: 516: 506: 485: 411: 401: 380: 349: 298: 262: 232: 56:Click here to start a new topic. 2010:Mid-importance Ukraine articles 1212:Today’s famine-genocide deniers 1144:February 1989, pages 7-10, 14. 863:This article has been rated as 718:This article has been rated as 569:This article has been rated as 464:This article has been rated as 305:This article was nominated for 2045:Low-importance Russia articles 1316:16:34, 30 September 2023 (UTC) 1289:09:12, 30 September 2023 (UTC) 1270:16:02, 29 September 2023 (UTC) 1191:12:30, 28 September 2023 (UTC) 1166:16:44, 27 September 2023 (UTC) 1058:07:36, 27 September 2023 (UTC) 319:, 15 November 2010 (UTC), see 1: 2020:B-Class Soviet Union articles 1974:22:36, 26 November 2023 (UTC) 1941:16:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC) 1932:09:16, 25 November 2023 (UTC) 1914:07:19, 25 November 2023 (UTC) 1904:re-add it, at least for now. 1889:14:32, 24 November 2023 (UTC) 1875:13:41, 24 November 2023 (UTC) 1859:12:01, 24 November 2023 (UTC) 1831:13:21, 23 November 2023 (UTC) 1813:23:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC) 1799:16:29, 22 November 2023 (UTC) 1781:Again, I did get support, at 1777:15:58, 22 November 2023 (UTC) 1757:15:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC) 830:WikiProject Alternative views 780:This article is supported by 760:This article is supported by 740:This article is supported by 543:and see a list of open tasks. 438:and see a list of open tasks. 53:Put new text under old text. 2015:WikiProject Ukraine articles 1730:17:02, 8 November 2023 (UTC) 1510:10:57, 24 October 2023 (UTC) 447:Template:WikiProject Ukraine 279:do not make personal attacks 18:Talk:Denial of the Holodomor 2085:WikiProject Russia articles 2040:Start-Class Russia articles 1613:18:19, 9 October 2023 (UTC) 1597:02:52, 9 October 2023 (UTC) 1575:03:45, 7 October 2023 (UTC) 1555:23:36, 4 October 2023 (UTC) 1492:21:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC) 1428:22:19, 4 October 2023 (UTC) 1398:18:38, 4 October 2023 (UTC) 1347:02:24, 1 October 2023 (UTC) 1241:the famine-genocide deniers 687:Template:WikiProject Russia 2116: 1803:What support? Show diffs. 1683:Dobczansky, Jurij (2009). 1293:I don’t think that is how 869:project's importance scale 849:Alternative Views articles 724:project's importance scale 575:project's importance scale 470:project's importance scale 1658:The Library of Congress. 862: 815: 779: 759: 739: 717: 703: 661:dedicated to coverage of 623: 568: 501: 463: 396: 375: 91:Be welcoming to newcomers 2005:B-Class Ukraine articles 1096:that killed millions in 532:WikiProject Soviet Union 1035:four different editors 901:Denial of the Holodomor 674:, or contribute to the 603:Science & education 1334: 1237:The Ukrainian Canadian 1208:famine-genocide denial 1142:The Ukrainian Canadian 1004:Lowercase sigmabot III 776: 756: 736: 357:This article is rated 329:, 1 January 2008, see 86:avoid personal attacks 1092:, a 1932–33 man-made 1031:​four times, against 775: 755: 735: 555:Soviet Union articles 361:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 226:Auto-archiving period 111:Neutral point of view 1206:has been updated to 665:on Knowledge (XXG). 116:No original research 1664:Library of Congress 1589:My very best wishes 1547:My very best wishes 1373:My very best wishes 1324:said in his revert 524:Soviet Union portal 427:WikiProject Ukraine 1233:and his supporters 777: 757: 737: 676:project discussion 654:WikiProject Russia 363:content assessment 97:dispute resolution 58: 1954:Holodomor Studies 1689:Holodomor Studies 1255:, like getting a 1011: 1010: 976: 975: 919: 918: 883: 882: 879: 878: 875: 874: 840:Alternative Views 807:Alternative Views 794: 793: 790: 789: 585: 584: 581: 580: 480: 479: 476: 475: 343: 342: 339: 338: 293: 292: 257: 256: 77:Assume good faith 54: 16:(Redirected from 2107: 1899: 1703: 1697: 1696: 1680: 1674: 1673: 1671: 1670: 1655: 1649: 1643: 1637: 1447: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1108: 1086:Holodomor denial 1006: 990: 940: 939: 929: 921: 907:. The result of 905:Holodomor denial 892: 891: 885: 851: 850: 847: 844: 841: 824: 817: 816: 811: 803: 796: 692: 691: 688: 685: 682: 648: 643: 642: 641: 632: 625: 624: 619: 616: 613: 611:Politics and law 594: 587: 557: 556: 553: 550: 547: 526: 521: 520: 519: 510: 503: 502: 497: 489: 482: 452: 451: 450:Ukraine articles 448: 445: 442: 421: 416: 415: 414: 405: 398: 397: 392: 384: 377: 360: 354: 353: 345: 311: 310: 302: 295: 285:is not reached, 266: 265: 259: 251: 237: 236: 227: 190: 189: 175: 106:Article policies 36:Holodomor denial 27: 21: 2115: 2114: 2110: 2109: 2108: 2106: 2105: 2104: 1995: 1994: 1893: 1737: 1713: 1708: 1707: 1706: 1700: 1682: 1681: 1677: 1668: 1666: 1657: 1656: 1652: 1646: 1640: 1634: 1452:who aren’t here 1441: 1140:Reprinted from 1106: 1104: 1102: 1018: 1002: 991: 985: 934: 889: 848: 845: 842: 839: 838: 809: 690:Russia articles 689: 686: 683: 680: 679: 668:To participate: 644: 639: 637: 617: 614: 600: 554: 551: 548: 545: 544: 522: 517: 515: 495: 449: 446: 443: 440: 439: 417: 412: 410: 390: 358: 287:other solutions 253: 252: 247: 224: 132: 127: 126: 125: 102: 72: 23: 22: 15: 12: 11: 5: 2113: 2111: 2103: 2102: 2097: 2092: 2087: 2082: 2077: 2072: 2067: 2062: 2057: 2052: 2047: 2042: 2037: 2032: 2027: 2022: 2017: 2012: 2007: 1997: 1996: 1993: 1992: 1991: 1990: 1989: 1988: 1987: 1986: 1985: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1979: 1978: 1977: 1976: 1961: 1950: 1943: 1891: 1844: 1837: 1818: 1786: 1736: 1733: 1712: 1709: 1705: 1704: 1698: 1695:(2 ): 155–164. 1675: 1650: 1644: 1638: 1631: 1630: 1626: 1624: 1622: 1621: 1620: 1619: 1618: 1617: 1616: 1615: 1580: 1579: 1578: 1577: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1526: 1525: 1524: 1523: 1522: 1521: 1520: 1519: 1518: 1517: 1516: 1515: 1514: 1513: 1512: 1480: 1479: 1478: 1472: 1471: 1465: 1461: 1457: 1430: 1416: 1413: 1410: 1407: 1403: 1335: 1328: 1249: 1246: 1245: 1244: 1229:New York Times 1221: 1217: 1216: 1215: 1202:. Traditional 1179: 1175: 1153: 1152: 1151: 1150:ISSN 0049-5077 1149: 1147: 1145: 1132: 1128: 1124: 1123: 1122: 1098:Soviet Ukraine 1077: 1071: 1068: 1065: 1017: 1016:OR in the lead 1014: 1009: 1008: 996: 993: 992: 987: 983: 981: 978: 977: 974: 973: 968: 963: 957: 956: 951: 946: 936: 935: 930: 924: 917: 916: 909:the discussion 893: 881: 880: 877: 876: 873: 872: 865:Mid-importance 861: 855: 854: 852: 825: 813: 812: 810:Mid‑importance 804: 792: 791: 788: 787: 778: 768: 767: 758: 748: 747: 738: 728: 727: 720:Low-importance 716: 710: 709: 702: 696: 695: 693: 666: 650: 649: 633: 621: 620: 618:Low‑importance 595: 583: 582: 579: 578: 571:Mid-importance 567: 561: 560: 558: 541:the discussion 528: 527: 511: 499: 498: 496:Mid‑importance 490: 478: 477: 474: 473: 466:Mid-importance 462: 456: 455: 453: 436:the discussion 423: 422: 419:Ukraine portal 406: 394: 393: 391:Mid‑importance 385: 373: 372: 366: 355: 341: 340: 337: 336: 335: 334: 324: 303: 291: 290: 267: 255: 254: 245: 243: 242: 239: 238: 192: 191: 129: 128: 124: 123: 118: 113: 104: 103: 101: 100: 93: 88: 79: 73: 71: 70: 59: 50: 49: 46: 45: 39: 24: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2112: 2101: 2098: 2096: 2093: 2091: 2088: 2086: 2083: 2081: 2078: 2076: 2073: 2071: 2068: 2066: 2063: 2061: 2058: 2056: 2053: 2051: 2048: 2046: 2043: 2041: 2038: 2036: 2033: 2031: 2028: 2026: 2023: 2021: 2018: 2016: 2013: 2011: 2008: 2006: 2003: 2002: 2000: 1975: 1972: 1970: 1967: 1962: 1959: 1956:. There is a 1955: 1951: 1947: 1944: 1942: 1939: 1935: 1934: 1933: 1929: 1925: 1921: 1917: 1916: 1915: 1911: 1907: 1903: 1897: 1892: 1890: 1886: 1882: 1878: 1877: 1876: 1873: 1871: 1868: 1862: 1861: 1860: 1856: 1852: 1848: 1845: 1842: 1838: 1834: 1833: 1832: 1829: 1827: 1824: 1819: 1816: 1815: 1814: 1810: 1806: 1802: 1801: 1800: 1797: 1795: 1792: 1787: 1784: 1780: 1779: 1778: 1774: 1770: 1766: 1765:WP:LEADCREATE 1761: 1760: 1759: 1758: 1755: 1753: 1750: 1745: 1742: 1734: 1732: 1731: 1728: 1726: 1723: 1718: 1710: 1702: 1699: 1694: 1690: 1686: 1679: 1676: 1665: 1661: 1654: 1651: 1648: 1645: 1642: 1639: 1636: 1633: 1629: 1625: 1614: 1611: 1609: 1606: 1600: 1599: 1598: 1594: 1590: 1586: 1585: 1584: 1583: 1582: 1581: 1576: 1573: 1571: 1568: 1562: 1558: 1557: 1556: 1552: 1548: 1544: 1539: 1535: 1531: 1530: 1511: 1507: 1503: 1499: 1495: 1494: 1493: 1489: 1485: 1481: 1477: 1474: 1473: 1469: 1468: 1466: 1462: 1458: 1455: 1453: 1445: 1439: 1435: 1431: 1429: 1425: 1421: 1417: 1414: 1411: 1408: 1404: 1401: 1400: 1399: 1396: 1394: 1391: 1386: 1382: 1378: 1374: 1370: 1366: 1362: 1358: 1354: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1344: 1340: 1336: 1333: 1329: 1326: 1323: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1314: 1312: 1309: 1304: 1300: 1296: 1292: 1291: 1290: 1286: 1282: 1277: 1273: 1272: 1271: 1268: 1266: 1263: 1258: 1254: 1250: 1247: 1242: 1238: 1234: 1230: 1226: 1225: 1222: 1218: 1213: 1209: 1205: 1204:famine-denial 1201: 1197: 1196: 1194: 1193: 1192: 1188: 1184: 1180: 1176: 1173: 1169: 1168: 1167: 1164: 1162: 1159: 1154: 1143: 1139: 1138: 1136: 1133: 1129: 1125: 1120: 1112: 1099: 1095: 1091: 1087: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1078: 1076: 1072: 1069: 1066: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1055: 1051: 1045: 1043: 1041: 1039: 1037: 1034: 1030: 1026: 1023: 1015: 1013: 1005: 1000: 995: 994: 980: 979: 972: 969: 967: 964: 962: 959: 958: 955: 952: 950: 947: 945: 942: 941: 938: 937: 933: 928: 923: 922: 914: 910: 906: 902: 898: 894: 887: 886: 870: 866: 860: 857: 856: 853: 836: 832: 831: 826: 823: 819: 818: 814: 808: 805: 802: 798: 785: 784: 774: 770: 769: 765: 764: 754: 750: 749: 745: 744: 734: 730: 729: 725: 721: 715: 712: 711: 707: 701: 698: 697: 694: 677: 673: 669: 664: 660: 656: 655: 647: 646:Russia portal 636: 634: 631: 627: 626: 622: 612: 608: 604: 599: 596: 593: 589: 576: 572: 566: 563: 562: 559: 542: 538: 534: 533: 525: 514: 512: 509: 505: 504: 500: 494: 491: 488: 484: 471: 467: 461: 458: 457: 454: 437: 433: 429: 428: 420: 409: 407: 404: 400: 399: 395: 389: 386: 383: 379: 374: 370: 364: 356: 352: 347: 346: 332: 328: 325: 322: 318: 315: 314: 313: 312: 308: 304: 301: 297: 296: 288: 284: 280: 276: 272: 268: 261: 260: 241: 240: 235: 231: 223: 219: 215: 211: 207: 203: 200: 198: 194: 193: 188: 184: 181: 178: 174: 170: 166: 163: 160: 157: 154: 151: 148: 145: 142: 138: 135: 134:Find sources: 131: 130: 122: 121:Verifiability 119: 117: 114: 112: 109: 108: 107: 98: 94: 92: 89: 87: 83: 80: 78: 75: 74: 68: 64: 63:Learn to edit 60: 57: 52: 51: 48: 47: 43: 37: 33: 29: 28: 19: 1964: 1953: 1865: 1821: 1789: 1747: 1738: 1720: 1714: 1701: 1692: 1688: 1678: 1667:. Retrieved 1663: 1653: 1647: 1641: 1635: 1627: 1623: 1603: 1565: 1560: 1542: 1534:Roman Serbyn 1484:Paul Siebert 1451: 1449: 1437: 1388: 1377:Paul Siebert 1331: 1322:Paul Siebert 1306: 1299:WP:CONSENSUS 1260: 1243:a short one? 1240: 1236: 1232: 1228: 1211: 1207: 1203: 1199: 1156: 1141: 1107:<ref: --> 1103:Cite error: 1085: 1046: 1032: 1028: 1019: 1012: 998: 931: 912: 864: 828: 781: 761: 741: 719: 672:project page 667: 652: 570: 546:Soviet Union 530: 493:Soviet Union 465: 425: 369:WikiProjects 326: 316: 269:Please stay 229: 195: 182: 176: 168: 161: 155: 149: 143: 133: 105: 30:This is the 1841:WP:LEADBOMB 1559:Yes, denial 1385:TimothyBlue 1369:K.e.coffman 1365:Davide King 659:WikiProject 615:Start‑class 159:free images 42:not a forum 1999:Categories 1958:WP:CONLINK 1669:2023-01-16 1628:References 1434:WP:CANVASS 1105:There are 835:discussion 331:discussion 321:discussion 1949:supports. 1938:blindlynx 1902:WP:BOLDly 1711:RSN again 1538:Denialism 1420:AevumNova 1357:Blindlynx 1353:AevumNova 1224:summary: 1111:help page 1090:Holodomor 1080:history): 1064:followed. 971:Archive 6 966:Archive 5 961:Archive 4 954:Archive 3 949:Archive 2 944:Archive 1 283:consensus 99:if needed 82:Be polite 32:talk page 1924:Stix1776 1881:Stix1776 1851:Stix1776 1805:Stix1776 1769:Stix1776 1741:Stix1776 1543:genocide 1502:Stix1776 1448:words: " 1361:Cloud200 1339:Stix1776 1281:Stix1776 1183:Stix1776 1050:Stix1776 999:182 days 932:Archives 307:deletion 230:182 days 197:Archives 67:get help 40:This is 38:article. 1966:Michael 1920:CJ-Moki 1906:CJ-Moki 1867:Michael 1823:Michael 1791:Michael 1749:Michael 1722:Michael 1605:Michael 1567:Michael 1406:Wrongs. 1390:Michael 1381:Qayqran 1308:Michael 1262:Michael 1158:Michael 867:on the 722:on the 607:History 573:on the 468:on the 441:Ukraine 432:Ukraine 388:Ukraine 359:B-class 165:WP refs 153:scholar 1896:Mzajac 1735:Revert 1498:Mzajac 1460:rules. 1444:Mzajac 1301:, and 1295:WP:BRD 1276:Mzajac 1178:edits. 1172:Mzajac 1094:famine 1074:blog.” 1022:Mzajac 681:Russia 663:Russia 598:Russia 365:scale. 137:Google 1836:lead. 1303:WP:DR 1257:WP:3O 1253:WP:DR 1033:three 1029:three 913:moved 899:from 897:moved 700:Start 275:civil 180:JSTOR 141:books 95:Seek 1928:talk 1910:talk 1885:talk 1855:talk 1846:Per 1809:talk 1773:talk 1739:Hi @ 1719:.  — 1593:talk 1551:talk 1506:talk 1488:talk 1424:talk 1387:.  — 1363:, @ 1343:talk 1285:talk 1187:talk 1054:talk 1048:you. 911:was 657:, a 327:keep 317:keep 273:and 271:calm 173:FENS 147:news 84:and 1561:ism 1436:, " 1383:, @ 1379:, @ 1375:, @ 1371:, @ 1367:, @ 1359:, @ 1355:, @ 1259:. — 903:to 859:Mid 714:Low 565:Mid 460:Mid 187:TWL 2001:: 1930:) 1912:) 1887:) 1864:— 1857:) 1811:) 1775:) 1691:. 1687:. 1662:. 1602:— 1595:) 1564:— 1553:) 1508:) 1490:) 1426:) 1345:) 1297:, 1287:) 1189:) 1113:). 1056:) 609:/ 605:/ 601:: 228:: 220:, 216:, 212:, 208:, 204:, 167:) 65:; 1971:. 1969:Z 1926:( 1918:@ 1908:( 1898:: 1894:@ 1883:( 1872:. 1870:Z 1853:( 1828:. 1826:Z 1807:( 1796:. 1794:Z 1785:. 1771:( 1754:. 1752:Z 1727:. 1725:Z 1693:1 1672:. 1610:. 1608:Z 1591:( 1572:. 1570:Z 1549:( 1504:( 1496:@ 1486:( 1446:: 1442:@ 1422:( 1395:. 1393:Z 1341:( 1327:: 1320:@ 1313:. 1311:Z 1283:( 1274:@ 1267:. 1265:Z 1185:( 1170:@ 1163:. 1161:Z 1121:. 1100:, 1052:( 1020:@ 915:. 871:. 837:. 786:. 766:. 746:. 726:. 678:. 577:. 472:. 371:: 333:. 323:. 222:6 218:5 214:4 210:3 206:2 202:1 199:: 183:· 177:· 169:· 162:· 156:· 150:· 144:· 139:( 69:. 20:)

Index

Talk:Denial of the Holodomor
talk page
Holodomor denial
not a forum
Click here to start a new topic.
Learn to edit
get help
Assume good faith
Be polite
avoid personal attacks
Be welcoming to newcomers
dispute resolution
Neutral point of view
No original research
Verifiability
Google
books
news
scholar
free images
WP refs
FENS
JSTOR
TWL
Archives
1
2
3
4
5

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

↑