935:, in which it is noted that for the Air Force crews to get out of flying the dangerous missions on the grounds that they are 'crazy', all they have to do is ask. But if they ask they can't be crazy because asking proves that they are sane, so they wont get out of flying more missions. This is nothing remotely akin to 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't'. What the crews want is to get out of flying more missions, which is not a metaphorical 'damnation', but a positive outcome. The point of Catch 22 is that there are two related but contradictory rules in play.
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1078:. To do or not to do? To do something even if we know that the moral consequences may not be ideal. and just do it because it is our duty/ obligation to do so. Or not do something because we care about the consequence. In the book there was a clear decision taken. Krishna’s argument prevailed." I personally know nothing about that, but it sounds interesting, just browsing a tiny bit at the
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711:, did a google calculation of usage, 1st comment is by the author in May 2014, so I'll go by that date for his search. He found 3 million uses of "dilemma" and 300,000 uses of "dilmena". He is also selling T-shirts for accepting "dilemna", but concedes that "dilemma" is the correct spelling. A few websites:
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for developing this article. I noticed it at AFD and came from there. Hey, I think something is missing in the current development, which seems to me to over-rely upon readers understanding about "horns", while apologizing at the same time about that being a cliché. I think it is now written as if
948:
Quoting from the
Dilemma article: "A dilemma...is a problem offering two possibilities, neither of which is unambiguously acceptable or preferable." Quoting from the Catch-22 article: "A catch-22 is a paradoxical situation from which an individual cannot escape because of contradictory rules." It is,
741:
What is it called when there are two equally tempting possibilities? Like two plates of food, that are equally delicious and equidistant from you - making it impossible to decide and causing you to starve? Is this also a dilemma, or is it called something else? - Update: I see that this is called the
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The description of 'Morton's Fork' is not at all like the content that appears on the full page for 'Morton's Fork'. The description says 'choices yield equivalent, often undesirable, results'; the page says that it's a 'specious piece of reasoning in which contradictory observations lead to the same
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This means that the article has been copied to the
Wiktionary Transwiki namespace for evaluation and formatting. It does not mean that the article is in the Wiktionary main namespace, or that it has been removed from Knowledge's. Furthermore, the Wiktionarians might delete the article from Wiktionary
1019:
Actually, I don't think the article conforms really with my understanding. The first sentence is: "A dilemma (Greek: δίλημμα "double proposition") is a problem offering two possibilities, neither of which is unambiguously acceptable or preferable." That sounds pretty vague to me, and it does not
585:
The premises you give are a fallacy; is that the same as being damned? I don't know. ;-) I think it's interesting that the conclusion to a dilemma is generally thought of as being morally/ethically/whatever somehow 'wrong' or something. In formal logic, of course, there is no such connotation.
1023:
About the horns, I think something more elementary needs to be described, i.e. that it is about facing a bull with horns coming at you. If you can avoid one you will get impaled by the other. I actually don't understand how, physically, one is supposed to escape in-between them, is there room?
907:
Your suggested summary of "Catch-22" looks like your own brainchild, one I've never seen before... whereas in actual usage "Catch 22" is universally used as code for "damned if you do, damned if you don't" and obviously refers to a choice between two actions that would both lead to damnations or
1024:
Through the head of the bull? What resolves the situation, literally, in a story about a bull. In a broad concept article, I think the horns metaphor/analogy should be explained very directly and clearly. I hope these comments are helpful somehow. Again thanks for developing it already. --
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convey that both possibilities appear pretty bad. It at least seems that both are bad, and you are going to get stuck with one or the other. Maybe it will turn out that in fact you don't have to be subjected to either, or one is not so bad, maybe that is how the dilemma is "resolved".
923:
It's my own braincild inasmuch as I made it up as I was explaining it here. And that is exactly why it is here in discussion and not edited into the article. Note also that I introduced the thought with: "which I suggest ... " That's a bit of a clue that it's just my thought, isn't it?
890:
More problematical is that Catch 22 situations are not a dilemma as defined in the article, as there are no possibilties involved. In fact I might argue that Catch 22 is all about the denial or refutation of possiliblities (within the context).
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Also, interestingly, Subhanjali
Saraswati, Director at Taarikh, History Club commented in that Quora thread, with a non-Western example that might be good to use: "When you are talking of ethical dilemma’s the first thing that comes up is the
886:
This is not an accurate summary of Catch 22, which I suggest would be better described as: "You can have
Outcome A only if you meet Qualification Z, but you cannot meet Qualification Z because you have not obtained Outcome A."
949:
therefore, a mistake for Catch 22 to be included as a type of dilemma and I will remove it. According to the two quoted sentences, "damned if you do, damned if you don't" is a summary of a dilemma but not of a catch-22.
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Certainly it is a dilemma; you could add it here, if you want to. The key is that the same result will be obtained regardless of whether the donkey eats or drinks (i.e. continued survival of the donkey); the fact that
836:
How about a mention or link to a dilemma zone before a traffic signal- where a vehicle cannot make it to the intersection before the light turns red without speeding, but also does not have enough stopping distance.
1047:. There are no hits on "dilemma" in the Knowledge article about it, and I don't recall much about it, and I don't know if it would be a good example to point to. But some classic examples (e.g. perhaps like
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I think the difference between these two views or definitions on the conept of a
Dilemma should be carfully highlighted in the article. The difference is too big to handle both concepts under one headline.
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that exist to represent 3 options. That said, we should probably make mention that in common usage, people do frequently use the term 'dilemma' when referring to situations with more than two options.
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The answer is obvious; "Dilemna" is
Imperial, "Dilemma" is Metric. But seriously, folks, I never came across "dilemma" until a few moments ago when google docs tried to correct my spelling.
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I was directed to this page from a link on another Wiki page: "damned if you do, damned if you don't." While this phrase does describe a dilemma, it describes a very specific one where:
704:
Well if millions use dilemna, than it is a valid word. It shouldn't really matter if the word came about through mistakes, it is now a word. This is how language changes.
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Judging from the article at hand, it is currently a dicdef. However if it can be expanded past a dicdef, please do so and remove the {{move to
Wiktionary}} template.
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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There seems to be some controversy about the spelling, many people around the world use "Dilemna" instead, and the reason seems quite unknown. I refer you to here:
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I blame my backwater school system. I used "dilemna" for a long time, and people couldn't understand why. I'm pretty sure dilemma is the most accepted spelling.
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or historically notable occurrences of dilemmas (like what faced some military leader during a war or whatever) should be included in the article I think.
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readers will understand already what the deal about horns is, when some/many will not. And I think it should be more straight-forward and without apology.
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I think it can be a
Knowledge article, discussing various dillemmas, history of this concenpt, some philosophical/logical interpreations, etc. --
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are the same). So, TheQz, I don't know if that answers your question; I guess it depends on what one thinks the 'solutions' to a dilemma are!
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To my understanding, in formal logic a dilemma has two choices, but each of these choices leads to the same conclusion. Symbolically:
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I believe the full phrase is "impaled on the horns of a dilemma", as if horns on a bull, but I'm not sure how/where to add this...
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By the way, I think there is a big long development about horns of dilemma and escaping them somehow which is developed in
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Since "damned if you do, damned if you don't" does describe a dilemma, I will include it in the section "Related terms".
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As for your claim that it's "universally" used that way, in "actual usage", you're kidding, right? Please be kidding.
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A majority of people accepting usage of a word changes the language as a whole. Otherwise it's slang. This website,
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Buridan's ass paradox. It is called a dilemma on it's page, yet it's not mentioned here under the
Dilemma topic.
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The description of Prisoner's Dilemma is also unclear. Inability to coordinate ... what? Defection to what?
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SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CANE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO FRED D 2ND TO NONE
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It is confusing and I don't see how it relates to the article at all.
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A dilemma always has two solutions? Is everyone sure about this?
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125:C-class
1091:Hamlet
1064:Arjuna
131:scale.
55:logs 2
52:logs 1
940:Wayne
899:Wayne
819:Ranze
369:TheQz
281:Logic
159:Logic
61:Note:
1126:talk
1103:talk
1097:? --
1066:and
1058:.
1030:talk
997:talk
969:talk
955:talk
914:talk
869:talk
849:talk
823:talk
799:talk
780:) …
773:Talk
748:talk
727:talk
696:talk
682:talk
667:talk
638:talk
612:talk
592:talk
488:and
317:talk
103:keep
101:was
57:.)
48:here
44:here
234:Low
46:or
31:to
1141::
1128:)
1105:)
1032:)
999:)
971:)
957:)
916:)
871:)
851:)
825:)
801:)
775:•
770:(
750:)
729:)
698:)
684:)
669:)
640:)
614:)
594:)
552:∧
441:⊢
435:⇒
423:⇒
411:∧
377:di
323:)
319:•
261:/
157::
1124:(
1101:(
1028:(
995:(
967:(
953:(
912:(
867:(
847:(
821:(
797:(
746:(
725:(
721:-
694:(
680:(
665:(
636:(
610:(
590:(
555:B
549:A
496:B
476:A
444:C
438:C
432:B
429:,
426:C
420:A
417:,
414:B
408:A
356:c
352:c
348:a
315:(
246:.
137::
105:.
50:(
35:.
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