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Talk:Diocletian

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1933:. There's no hard proof whatsoever that Diocletian committed suicide, and although papers/books may be published, getting the mainstream of university professors to accept this premise is another matter - our staff certainly hasn't, while finding the concept interesting; I doubt you will find this being taught at any major school as fact at this time. It is at university roundtables where mainstream historical thought is developed - where scholarly writings are discussed and balanced with opposing/alternate views. I'm uncomfortable about the way the paragraph ends with the impression that this is how he died - I strongly suggest a more mainstream group of sources also be used. 810: 789: 450: 1412: 233: 1391: 699: 744: 1505: 1484: 1097: 1076: 441: 1202: 1181: 1107: 344: 266: 903: 882: 597: 511: 483: 728: 1212: 1008: 987: 913: 203: 1307: 1286: 760: 1317: 573: 661: 629: 521: 2495:
Does this supposed suicide even belong in this article at all? I don't doubt that "some" people have suggested it, but it sounds like speculation without evidence, which doesn't belong in an encyclopaedia. It is also difficult to reconcile this with the account given in the preceding paragraph about
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Looking quickly at the bibliography, it seems that a lot of the ugliness could be solved by imposing a uniform referencing system - most of the entries seem to have been entered manually. Personally, I quite like {{sfn}} with {{cite book}}, {{cite journal}} and so on. That would, at least, mean that
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The article is explicitly addressing the reactions of e.g. Aurelius Victor to Diocletian's treatment of Carinus' officials, and so cites Aurelius Victor to do so. It seems to me there's a case-by-case check to be done about whether there's any value in referring to that person's reaction at all (in
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that "many other sources outside of wiki say so!" It is possibly true that this is the majority opinion – Brill's New Pauly says that he killed himself, though the Oxford Classical Dictionary merely says that he died – but we can't say so based on a forty-year-old source which says nothing of the
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You need to provide sources for anything you expect others to add to the article, and the improvement of the article is the only reason you should post this (or any) information on this Talk page. Consequently, I have removed the link to an NBC News article that has absolutely nothing to do with
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The source formatting varies wildly, probably because sources have been added since its FAC promotion: some are missing years of publications for books, some missing ISBNs, and the CAH references do not indicate the full name of the author when lsited in the citations section (so the article only
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In his military reforms section, it is stated that Lactantius criticized Diocletian for the troop increases. Treadgold also maintains that a large increase in the number of soldiers occurred in Diocletian’s reign. However, in the Knowledge page about the late Roman Army, a relatively thorough
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and the size nearly doubled. I just think the rewrite would actually be easy for me than double-checking every single cite to ensure it actually is there, and all the other issues that happen when it festers for some time. My main concerns are just the uncited bits and the mix of refs/primary
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Two IP editors have now changed the discussion of Diocletian's death from saying that "some" suggest that he committed suicide to that " majority of historians" say this. The source cited does not support this claim, but the most recent editor introducing this claim says in their summary to
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well known to all, but, it goes to show how wikistupid you are like all one sided wmf administrators are... 1. on talk pages i dont need to source anythining, just point out whats wrong or what to correct and no, sky is not always blue, especially when rains, so again you are proven wrong as
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I simply want Diocletian’s page to be revised in order to reflect this analysis, given that Treadgold is most likely incorrect. However, am I still unsure if this is truly the right point of view, and if a true expert can patch me up, that would be great. Thank you!
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analysis concludes that Treadgold is most likely incorrect in his observation between statements made by John of Lydus (who concluded about 400k effectives) and Zosimus (who concluded 581k). The Wiki page states the following (significantly paraphrased by me):
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this example, Aurelius Victor is quite a lot later than Diocletian, so my instinct would say 'no'), but, at least in principle, can the article not cite ancient sources when explicitly talking about ancient authors' views of the matter under discussion?
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Unfortunately no, I have not had the time to re-work this. FAR may be the best option; hopefully, I will have time at some point in the future, but at present I have grad school with basically no breaks until the end of next summer.
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info above is well known, problem with wikipedia fake encyclopedia is that is always contradicts itself: you need source even for logical point that oxygen is required for breathing, cellular respiration!
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There are other sources listed in "Bibliography" which are not used as footnotes in the article (like Banchich, Thomas M., Elliott, T. G. and Lewis, Naphtali) These should be used as footnotes or removed.
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cites modern scholarly literature, and the primary-source citation is really a matter of 'showing working' (and probably the entire evidence base on which the secondary author has based
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more than any other emperor. Around 304, he imposed very cruel death penalty on Saint Wit, a boy of 12 who refused to convert to roman pagan religion. He imposed the traditional
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Do you want to gut the article, or dumb it down? The featured article standards are not that great. I have seen articles losing useful sections, just to please a reviewer.
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Semiprotected to reduce the personal attacks. Apologies to any IP editors with genuine contributions to make, please hold onto them until the semi protection expires. --
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in spite of lackluster appearance) has changed formats recently in a very frustrating and unhelpful way, chief among them that they now remove the author's name.
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It should be noted that the edit you mention was the first and only edit by that IP. I strongly suspect (but cannot prove) that that IP was the same person who
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Diocletian or the improvement of this article. And if you direct personal attacks and insults toward me or any other editor here again, you will be blocked.
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ponyo, explain yourself, here is proof diocletian committed suicide, also explain yourself what does may be mean, is that encyclopedic? duh!!!
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Some of the dodgy references seem to be used in support of other, less dodgy ones, and so could be cut out without causing any real problems.
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On the use of ancient sources - I've only given it a cursory check, but as far as I can see, most of the uses fall under one of the below:
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information was presented in the same order, and perhaps be a useful first step towards going back in and tracking down missing details?
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wikihypocrite and self contradictor and these wiki/wmf articles had all sorts of sources but they were wrong, i rest my case, DOH/DUH:
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Yes, it is encyclopedic. It's what modern scholarly sources say. Neither the date nor the cause of his death are known for certain.
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There seems to be a reliance on ancient sources in some sections, which as buidhe points out above, might not be accepted today.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Main_Page&curid=5030553&diff=1056613863&oldid=1056599459#Diocletian
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of which I could not find an author's name in the post, so I cannot confirm if author listed in this article is correct.
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I saw in the article, I don't understand the symbols, but if they are not referring to dee-ock-lay-tee-an, it's wrong.
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I see that this article cites ancient sources directly, which isn't generally accepted because ancient sources are not
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There is a list of articles in "Further reading" which I think should be consulted and added into the article if able.
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Marking here that I will be re-writing this article in my userspace to align it with featured article standards.
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used multiple IPs to make this and other assertions concerning Diocletian in the section directly above this one
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In introduction: "Of course this was purely a political favor done by a Senator after a blistering affair."
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www.stnicholascenter.org/how-to-celebrate/resources/liturgical/sermons/orthodox/saint-nicholas-reflection
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history on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The more I review this article's sources, the more concerned I am that this article doesn't fulfil the
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Please take this in the spirit of inquiry - checking to see that I've understood things correctly:
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Concur with your summary of issues; I will say that the www.roman-emperors.org (which is actually
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Well known to whom? Apparently not to the many sources already cited in this article. And no,
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I've been quite busy, but the end is in sight; it'll likely take place sometime in April.
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I'm considering this a second notice for a possible FAR, and will indicate as such as
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religion of the Romans. After abdicating, he committed suicide on December 3 311!
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The Empire of the Tetrarchs, Imperial Pronouncements and Government AD 284–324
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since October that you are re-working in userspace; how is that coming?
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There are other sources that I find skeptical, like Ref 83 which uses
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Removed from the article because they are generating Harvref errors:
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sort! So: is this the majority opinion? What are the sources?
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Family tree entry for Constans is mislinked. Should be:
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With errors introduced since the 2008 featured version.
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Happy to have a go along those lines, if it would help?
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we don't need a citation to prove that the sky is blue
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