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1153:, while I obviously agree with the comment of GregJackP on the content dispute on this article, I have invited you before to feel free to start some sort of action to review my editing if you think I am doing something egregious or outside of policy. If you do that, fine, I'll respond to the inquiry at that time and in that place. Otherwise, your deflecting of the issue to some nefarious broader implications of my editing when we have a content dispute on a particular Shannara article is either
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547:'s edit comment on the edit summary was: "2013-11-04T17:51:50 The ed17 (talk | contribs) . . (14,571 bytes) (+12,766) . . (rv removal of content, we've been over this)", implying that this was a simple revert of some sort. It was not. The article had been unchanged at a character count of approx. 2,000 bytes for nearly five months, since June, and had been less than 5,000 characters from roughly Dec 2012 through May 2013.
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and know that. But I refuse to get into an edit war with you, so I have left your text in the article following your reversion of my edit while we are trying to discuss it here. I think you should consider showing good faith and leave that very large edit out of the article while this discussion is
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removal of unsourced material. Knowledge (XXG)'s policies concerning sources and properly supported material have become more strict, in recent years, and this has clearly helped to further improve article quality. In matters such as this one, which are esoteric, highly specialized, and of obvious
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The article says that the Druids, for unknown reasons, reformed into the Second Druid
Council, which contained Athabasca, Bremen, and basically everyone killed when Brona attacked in First King of Shannara. I was wondering where in the books it mentions that? I've been trying to find some mention
1171:
relative to my efforts to improve
Knowledge (XXG). In this particular case, we rather obviously just have a difference of opinion on how much unverified original research should remain in Knowledge (XXG) about non-notable aspects of fictional characters, themes and locations. Cheers.
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them either, or perhaps they cannot, because those sources don't exist. I'm not saying the sources don't exist; but if noone has found sources for years, and no one has added sources for many months while many claims were specifically challenged, then perhaps we might infer that the
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removal. The material showed that citations were needed since June 2012. Apparently no one has found any (or looked). There have been plenty of time to find references in that period of time, so the material should be removed and only added back on finding proper references.
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is what then became the long-term stable position of this article, which remained in place for five additional months before I tagged a deadlink (removing nothing), and then you came along and added back all of that unsourced material (approx. 12,000 bytes worth),
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An attack on me here—either for disagreements about edits I've made nearly a year ago on this article (or five months ago), or for content disputes on other articles we've had in the past—is merely a way to attempt to deflect the subject from the
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If you want to challenge my behavior as an editor of
Knowledge (XXG) over some longer period of time or broader swath of articles, there are places to do that. Put your story together and go for it; but please don't change the subject of
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Preserve appropriate content. As long as any of the facts or ideas added to the article would belong in a "finished" article, they should be retained if they meet the requirements of the three core content policies:
721:, along with a comment about why you made the change. Do not remove information solely because it is poorly presented; instead, improve the presentation by rewriting the passage. The
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Moreover, I do believe that the re-addition, your second addition of the large amount of unsourced text to this article is starting an edit war. I'm sure you are familiar with
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such unverified statements that we improve the encyclopedia, and we do so at a very slow and measured pace, so that other editors might add the sources if they do exist.
903:" I have done my level best to do exactly what one does when one tries, through a succession of editor efforts, to improve the encyclopedia. I looked to see if I could
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1043:, which text has recently been added back into the article (but still with no sources)—as nom. There is no support whatsoever for the challenged statements being
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proposal to remove the unsourced text that had originally been challenged over a year ago, and had then been removed from the article five to ten months ago after
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prior to your edit—I will (by necessity of your intransigence) put that issue aside for now, and go to the specific issue you are insisting on discussing: the
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it as necessary. If you think a page needs to be rewritten or changed substantially, go ahead and do so, but preserve any reasonable content on the article's
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I think you are making this more complex than it should be, Ed, but then perhaps that serves your purpose. I don't know. But given you will not abide by
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core policy. Then, and only after five more months, even more of the flagged material that had remained unsourced for all that time, was removed.
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It seems we have a content dispute between two editors, and are currently making no progress toward article improvement. So I have opened up an
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Have to agree with The Gnome (and others) on this. If proper sourcing can be found, material can be reinstated. Edit warring, as displayed
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passionate interest to some people, editors should avoid more than in other, more typical entries to put up material that is not sourced per
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I disagree, I think your wholesale removal of gobs of unsourced text from multiple articles certainly comes into play here. You're violating
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The very policy paragraph you link to says that material "should be retained if meets the requirements of the three core content policies:
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the
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the article. I left the article in that state for many months. Only then, after months of being flagged with no sources found, did I
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The only recent change to the article, in the previous four months, was that I had tagged a deadlink source on 4 Nov 2013. Cheers.
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on the topic, so we might get some other editors to weigh in. Please see the content discussion over the past week in the above
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Nah, the material sat there for over 16 months without anyone working on it, it is now appropriate for it to be removed.
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added over 12,000 characters of data to the article, with no sources to support the addition, and nothing that indicates
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RfC: should a large amount of unsourced statements about these fictional characters in literature remain in the article?
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the unsourced original research. If the sources don't exist, and noone has found them after months, it is precisely by
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Honestly, most of them could be merged and redirected. Removing content, tagged or not, is never the way to go (IMHO).
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Best to you, and to your continued efforts to make
Knowledge (XXG) a better encyclopedia. I do ask that you
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ed the shortcomings so other editors, who might know more about where to find such sources than I do, might
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novels, the Druids are referred to as just that--the Druids. The term "Shannara Druids" is never used. —
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Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with
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There is no source cited for most of the statements that would show they are anything but
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ed a long time ago, and only after many months, some of those non-sourced statements were
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The link that says "main article" links back to this page. Is there a main Ahren article?
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I totally concede neutrality; I do not believe the material in this article violates
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Regardless on your feelings on unsourced text, your long-term demolition of articles
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of the Second Druid
Council for some time but don't remember ever seeing anything...
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I have reverted a recent large addition of unsourced statements to the article.
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However, the material that I removed (half a year to a year ago) does not meet
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Great
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are not to be found. The problems with lack of sources in this article were
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Great
Knowledge (XXG) articles can come from a succession of editors' efforts.
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Ed, I do not believe your position is supported by the policy you linked to.
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the serious deficiencies in this article. The policy you quoted says to "
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links to a section in
Editing Policy, the first paragraph of which says:
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talk page to explore the broader implications of your content removal.
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while I work on more pressing issues; this RfC should be moved to the
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
1252:- 16 months tagged is enough. The argument that this is covered by
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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1211:. Otherwise, we'll have edits wars and disputes all the time.-
569:. It's unfortunate that no one noticed your edits at the time.
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especially with the notice being given well over a year ago.
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with your edits, which is an
English Knowledge (XXG) policy.
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for any of these fictional character druids that he added.
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Fix problems if you can, flag or remove them if you can't.
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Fix problems if you can, flag or remove them if you can't.
1021:, and provide opinions, with rationale, below. Thanks.
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There is no support whatsoever for the statements being
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The following discussion is an archived record of a
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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No further edits should be made to this discussion.
427:, please explain your reasons, taking into account
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586:, and please do not try to change the subject.
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713:. Either clean up the writing on the spot, or
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962:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
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895:tends to guide articles through ever-higher
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417:, then sign your comment with
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