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Talk:Dual quaternion

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Algebra theory that the construction of dual quaternions yields a dual unit multivector that commutes with the quaternion unit multi vectors---they are constructed as the even Clifford algebra on four dimensional space with a degenerate (3,0) metric. The reason that I bring this up is that I would like to remove the specialized conjugates that have been introduced and focus on the usual and useful dual quaternion conjugate.
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In the article, a norm for dual-quaternions is defined. However, I was wondering whether this is a norm or a seminorm, because dual quaternions with a zero non-dual part would have the norm zero no matter what their dual part is, right? If I'm correct it might be better to write seminorm instead of
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dual part is also negated), in papers on kinematics. This initially caused me hours of confusion. I do not know if this is considered "correct", or if there is a better term. This seems to be so widespread that I think the reader should be informed/warned about this usage, with an explanation of
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I hope the issue of anti-commutation of the dual unit ε is resolved. There may be eight dimensional algebras constructed from ε, i, j, and k, in which anti-commutivity exists and associativity is lost, however, it is not correct to call them dual quaternions. It is possible to show using Clifford
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The section refering to the skew theory algebra is marred by this problem. A separate article about a (revamped) appropriate algebra for the skew transformation is in order. Should associativity be dropped? Maybe only two non-commutativities are necessary. I realize that the dual quaternions are
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I commented out the section on dual quaternions for rigid motions because is claims that in this case the dual unit ε anti-commutes with the quaternion units i, j, k. This is not correct. It propagates a confusion introduced by Baker. The correct description is found in
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common fare for the mechanical engineers in some places. Nevertheless all mathematics must be consistent and there is a reason that the dual quaternion literature has not made it into standard mathematical texts. Expectations are too high.
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Also, the "conjugate" section seems to define two kinds of conjugates (in addition to the one I mention above), without naming them. Do these have names, such as "quaternion conjugate" and "dual conjuguate"?
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Checking the Martin Baker reference shows there is no claim of associativity; non-associativity is acknowleged with an example. For the time being this alternative dual quaternion idea is under consideration.
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I changed the notation to eliminate some of the unnecessary math formatting so it reads easier, and otherwise keep what was already there. However, I found some errors that needed to be corrected.
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why people use it, and a reference. If there is a better, standard, term for this quantity, I think it should be mentioned, since it seems to be widely used.
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It seems, when multiplication associates, that ε = e can only anti-commute with two of the i,j,k. For example, assume ei + ie = 0 and ej + je = 0. Then
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The section about "Dual quaternions and 4×4 homogeneous transforms" indicates this as the way to apply a dual transformation to a vector in
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I added the section on dual quaternions and spatial displacements, including formulas for the composition of spatial displacements.
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is not meaningful unless the article specifies whether its convention for the dual Quaternion's rigid transform is T*R or R*T.--
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The 8-dimensional real representation is spelled out. Are there higher-dimensional representations (that are not
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over the dual number ring, and this “norm” reflects such structure, as well as convenient properties of the
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I would like to make some changes to this article to make it easier to read and perhaps more useful.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I am not sure it is proper, but I increased the quality and importance ratings a little.
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This is not correct. It should be using the other conjugate, the one defined as
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I have encountered the term "conjugate" used for the quantity
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The article does not claim this “norm” makes a 839: 658: 623: 564: 453: 362: 166:ek = e(ij) = (ei)j = −(ie)j = −i(ej) = ije = ke. 931: 560: 8: 889:No, it is not zero, but a (non-invertible) 925:Is rotation or displacement applied first? 47: 1004: 983: 962: 947: 938: 822: 811: 810: 795: 794: 782: 771: 770: 749: 748: 736: 725: 724: 709: 708: 694: 693: 675: 674: 671: 639: 638: 636: 586: 585: 583: 551: 535: 519: 503: 487: 476: 475: 472: 442: 431: 430: 415: 414: 400: 399: 381: 380: 377: 354: 348: 1038:2A02:8084:2562:5E80:9ED0:F6E5:50EF:B820 49: 19: 7: 875:2A00:1398:200:200:2677:3FF:FE1F:6278 95:This article is within the scope of 1051:Higher-dimensional representations? 933:The displacement can be written as 308:Alternate Usage of word "conjugate" 38:It is of interest to the following 1007: 986: 965: 624:{\displaystyle {\vec {v}}=(0,0,0)} 14: 1092:Mid-priority mathematics articles 115:Knowledge:WikiProject Mathematics 118:Template:WikiProject Mathematics 82: 72: 51: 20: 1063:, and what would it look like? 227:, North Holland Publ. Co., 1979 135:This article has been rated as 816: 800: 776: 754: 730: 714: 699: 680: 644: 618: 600: 591: 525: 496: 481: 436: 420: 405: 386: 320:* (quaternions are conjugated 196:23:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC) 1: 919:18:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC) 883:11:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC) 109:and see a list of open tasks. 1087:B-Class mathematics articles 1046:11:39, 21 October 2018 (UTC) 901:. Dual quaternions are the 659:{\displaystyle {\hat {v}}=1} 158:Limits to anti-commutativity 909:operation on dual numbers. 339:20:28, 24 August 2013 (UTC) 300:14:40, 12 August 2011 (UTC) 181:22:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC) 1108: 867:norm to avoid confusion. 857:20:22, 27 April 2017 (UTC) 575:which is not the inverse. 285:Conjugate of a quaternion 252:21:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 238:17:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 216:03:45, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 202:Revisions to this article 134: 67: 46: 1073:20:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC) 280:22:39, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 266:00:11, 2 July 2011 (UTC) 223:O. Bottema and B. Roth, 141:project's priority scale 98:WikiProject Mathematics 1034: 1026: 841: 660: 625: 578:An easy example is if 566: 455: 364: 225:Theoretical Kinematics 28:This article is rated 1027: 842: 661: 626: 567: 456: 365: 363:{\displaystyle R^{3}} 937: 670: 635: 582: 471: 376: 347: 121:mathematics articles 899:normed vector space 1022: 903:quaternion algebra 837: 656: 621: 562: 561: 451: 360: 90:Mathematics portal 34:content assessment 1017: 996: 975: 895:the section above 873:comment added by 819: 803: 779: 757: 733: 717: 702: 683: 647: 594: 484: 439: 423: 408: 389: 155: 154: 151: 150: 147: 146: 1099: 1031: 1029: 1028: 1023: 1018: 1013: 1005: 997: 992: 984: 976: 971: 963: 952: 951: 885: 862:Norm or Seminorm 846: 844: 843: 838: 830: 829: 821: 820: 812: 805: 804: 796: 790: 789: 781: 780: 772: 759: 758: 750: 744: 743: 735: 734: 726: 719: 718: 710: 704: 703: 695: 689: 685: 684: 676: 665: 663: 662: 657: 649: 648: 640: 630: 628: 627: 622: 596: 595: 587: 571: 569: 568: 563: 556: 555: 540: 539: 524: 523: 508: 507: 492: 491: 486: 485: 477: 460: 458: 457: 452: 450: 449: 441: 440: 432: 425: 424: 416: 410: 409: 401: 395: 391: 390: 382: 369: 367: 366: 361: 359: 358: 123: 122: 119: 116: 113: 92: 87: 86: 76: 69: 68: 63: 55: 48: 31: 25: 24: 16: 1107: 1106: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1077: 1076: 1053: 1033: 1006: 985: 964: 943: 935: 934: 927: 868: 864: 809: 769: 723: 673: 668: 667: 633: 632: 580: 579: 547: 531: 515: 499: 474: 469: 468: 429: 379: 374: 373: 350: 345: 344: 310: 287: 204: 160: 120: 117: 114: 111: 110: 88: 81: 61: 32:on Knowledge's 29: 12: 11: 5: 1105: 1103: 1095: 1094: 1089: 1079: 1078: 1061:Pauli matrices 1052: 1049: 1021: 1016: 1012: 1009: 1003: 1000: 995: 991: 988: 982: 979: 974: 970: 967: 961: 958: 955: 950: 946: 942: 932: 926: 923: 922: 921: 863: 860: 836: 833: 828: 825: 818: 815: 808: 802: 799: 793: 788: 785: 778: 775: 768: 765: 762: 756: 753: 747: 742: 739: 732: 729: 722: 716: 713: 707: 701: 698: 692: 688: 682: 679: 655: 652: 646: 643: 620: 617: 614: 611: 608: 605: 602: 599: 593: 590: 573: 572: 559: 554: 550: 546: 543: 538: 534: 530: 527: 522: 518: 514: 511: 506: 502: 498: 495: 490: 483: 480: 462: 461: 448: 445: 438: 435: 428: 422: 419: 413: 407: 404: 398: 394: 388: 385: 357: 353: 309: 306: 304: 286: 283: 203: 200: 199: 198: 168: 167: 159: 156: 153: 152: 149: 148: 145: 144: 133: 127: 126: 124: 107:the discussion 94: 93: 77: 65: 64: 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1104: 1093: 1090: 1088: 1085: 1084: 1082: 1075: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1062: 1058: 1050: 1048: 1047: 1043: 1039: 1019: 1014: 1010: 1001: 998: 993: 989: 980: 977: 972: 968: 959: 956: 953: 948: 944: 940: 930: 929:The sentence 924: 920: 916: 912: 908: 904: 900: 896: 892: 888: 887: 886: 884: 880: 876: 872: 861: 859: 858: 854: 850: 834: 831: 826: 823: 813: 806: 797: 791: 786: 783: 773: 766: 763: 760: 751: 745: 740: 737: 727: 720: 711: 705: 696: 690: 686: 677: 653: 650: 641: 615: 612: 609: 606: 603: 597: 588: 576: 557: 552: 548: 544: 541: 536: 532: 528: 520: 516: 512: 509: 504: 500: 493: 488: 478: 467: 466: 465: 446: 443: 433: 426: 417: 411: 402: 396: 392: 383: 372: 371: 370: 355: 351: 341: 340: 336: 332: 326: 323: 319: 315: 307: 305: 302: 301: 297: 293: 292:Prof McCarthy 284: 282: 281: 277: 273: 272:Prof McCarthy 268: 267: 263: 259: 258:Prof McCarthy 254: 253: 249: 245: 244:Prof McCarthy 240: 239: 235: 231: 230:Prof McCarthy 228: 226: 218: 217: 213: 209: 208:Prof McCarthy 201: 197: 193: 189: 185: 184: 183: 182: 178: 174: 165: 164: 163: 157: 142: 138: 132: 129: 128: 125: 108: 104: 100: 99: 91: 85: 80: 78: 75: 71: 70: 66: 60: 57: 54: 50: 45: 41: 35: 27: 23: 18: 17: 1065:67.198.37.16 1054: 1035: 928: 869:— Preceding 865: 577: 574: 463: 342: 327: 321: 317: 313: 311: 303: 288: 269: 255: 241: 224: 219: 205: 169: 161: 137:Mid-priority 136: 96: 62:Mid‑priority 40:WikiProjects 911:Incnis Mrsi 907:square root 891:dual number 112:Mathematics 103:mathematics 59:Mathematics 1081:Categories 331:Gsspradlin 871:unsigned 849:Audetto 631:, then 188:Rgdboer 173:Rgdboer 139:on the 30:B-class 1057:simple 316:* - 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Rgdboer
talk
22:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Rgdboer
talk
23:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Prof McCarthy
talk
03:45, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
O. Bottema and B. Roth, Theoretical Kinematics, North Holland Publ. Co., 1979
Prof McCarthy
talk
17:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Prof McCarthy
talk
21:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Prof McCarthy

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