1477:"Sir, Ben Macintyreâs article on Scott and Shackleton (Weekend essay, Mar 12) is quite right: both were heroes. But Shackleton undoubtedly pushed his luck, not least with the Endurance. She was on her maiden voyage having been built to take summer tourists to the Arctic and he bought her unseen at short notice. He wrote home from South America saying she seemed much less robust and suited for the ice than his earlier ship, the Nimrod â a Dundee-built whaler. His support partyâs ship, the Aurora, a 40-year-old Dundee whaler, was locked in the ice and blown from McMurdo Sound on the other side of the Antarctic. She survived nine months in the ice and reached New Zealand in April 1916, when Shackleton was on Elephant Island. Most of Shackletonâs knowledgeable contemporaries thought that his transantarctic plans were too ambitious. Vivian Fuchs, who led the transantarctic expedition that was first to achieve Shackletonâs dream in 1958, believed that it was highly unlikely he would have succeeded even if he had managed to land. Fuchs wrote âit may be permissible to comment that the loss of the Endurance may have saved a worse disasterâ."
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condensing of p. 19 (and actually elaborated on earlier in the section). I think it would be good to simply reduce the sentence down to: "Endurance, on the other hand, was not intended to be frozen into heavy pack ice, and so was not designed to rise out of a crush." Dropping the part about the hull strength bc that is already described earlier. It may be worth adding a note about what did happen, was that the strength of her hull tended to crack floes pressing against her per
Worsley's observation via Shackleton 72 (or via Lansing 54, it's the same quote slightly differently rendered). Worsley does describe that the ship was used for ramming floes pretty well in
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Ah, I see. Unfortunately, I believe that these coordinates refer to the location which the ship sunk at, which was recorded by the ship's navigator. The expedition hasn't released the coordinates of the wreck, as far as I can tell. That said, they did say that they found the wreck 3.5nm south of the
1608:
Shackleton simply refers to the boats in which they escaped to
Elephant Island as "boats". At no point were they described by him as lifeboats. Technically, to meet Board of Trade regulations, the boats had the necessary buoyancy tanks to be legally called lifeboats, and so comply with the rules.
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tag myself, but decided that would be overkill in a situation where the text in question is stating something which looks plausible and has the appearance of having been sourced, just not sourced to the book page cited at the end of the sentence. Hopefully I've attained my objective of flagging the
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Describing the boats in the article as "lifeboats" is misleading. They were at one stage legally lifeboats. They were intended for use as ship's boats. They ceased to be lifeboats once put into use as they were modified. They were not referred to as lifeboats, but just as "boats" by the people who
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in particular was more lightly built than the standard lifeboat. Since
Endeavour was going to somewhere without any established port, the boats were not primarily to fulfil the role of lifeboats, but to do all the mundane work of a ship's boat - carrying supplies and people to and from the shore.
1457:"Endurance, on the other hand, was designed with great inherent strength in her hull in order to resist collision with ice floes and to break through pack ice by ramming and crushing; she was therefore not intended to be frozen into heavy pack ice, and so was not designed to rise out of a crush."
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but missed it in while doing all the rest. The part that's not really verified by pp. 19-20 of
Lansing is "in order to resist collision with ice floes and to break through pack ice by ramming and crushing" because the part about her being designed with great inherent strength is essentially a
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being the largest. This is typical of the working ship's boats of the era. Furthermore, when
Endeavour was lost, the buoyancy tanks were removed to accommodate more men. So the boats were no longer legally lifeboats anyway. You can get this from the account by Frank Worsley.
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Oh no, oh no! You're fine. It's really good keeping out, especially since the page was a mess before, and things should be cited to where they claim to be. I'll just excise the unreferenced part since it's not even necessary after the rest of the section anyway. ~Cheers,
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The crew escaped by camping on the sea ice until it disintegrated, then by launching the lifeboats to reach
Elephant Island and ultimately South Georgia Island, a stormy ocean voyage of 720 nautical miles (1,330 km; 830 mi) and Shackleton's most famous
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There should be a small sentence of some sort toward Mcnishâs cat since he was a member of the crew. I was curious whether or I should add beside âall the crew survivedâ except for a Miss Chippy a very dearly loved cat be belonging to Mcnish?
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Because that would be bludgeoning an article simply to try and say "it's good enough for ITN" (which it wouldn't be if whole sections were removed, as there wouldn't be a broad enough coverage left) rather than fixing the actual issue.
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Under 'Crew', the list contained a
William Bakewell, while the description beneath it regarding Blackborrow addressed an aid from William Blakewell. Please identify the true name and change it, thanks.
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Page 20 appears to verify the last part of the sentence, but not the first. Nor have I managed to find anything anywhere else in the book which does. The cited text on page 20 reads:
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In the article it says "Worsley fixed the position as 68° 38.5'S 52° 58'W." These are not the same as the 69° 39Ⲡ30âłS, 52° 26Ⲡ30âłW that were in the source. If you like,
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may have gotten its information from this article, meaning that we really can't use it to cite some of the unreferenced content here! What do you think?
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In fairness, it should probably be mentioned that the letter writer, being from
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Mrs Chippy's demise is not yet mentioned or sourced. It seems
Shackleton had him shot. Were the dogs (and pups) not also part of the crew? Thanks.
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I don't know how to remove the link on
Endurance crewmember William Stephenson's name. The link directs to a different person of the same name.
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Cited to page 20 of the 1959 McGraw-Hill edition of Lansing's 'Endurance: Shackletonâs Incredible Voyage', the last sentence of the
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When I clicked on what I thought would be a new page for "George Marston" i was directed to a page for another person of same name.
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I took a closer look at it and the wording seems very similar to this article, so we should probably remove it just to be safe.
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Wasn't this dude originally a stowaway, who Shackleton decided to put to work rather than turn around and put off?
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in cases where a source has been cited, but does not support the text to which the citation has been attached.
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allows the addition of 3.5nm south (which is 3.5') to Worsley's coordinates to obtain the final position.
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This is all fair, and all references to lifeboats have already been removed from the article. ~Cheers,
1307:, US Navy". A bit tricky to cite if one were trying to be thorough... I patched it up as best I could.
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The prominence given to the cat in this article (with hardly a mention of the dogs) is ridiculous.
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I think there is a modern copy of the ship on exhibition in Sydney. Is that worth writing about?
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Another reason to think of them as ship's boats is that they were not of uniform size, with the
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at 00:45 it gives the coordinates with a reticle, and in the upper right corner it says "Data
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I've no idea how to unpick all this, but no doubt someone else has skills to achieve this!
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The article does not explain how the crew got home. Shackleton's own wiki page says:
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None of the dogs are named as crew members. And we don't have any article for
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p. 34, but I'm not sure how useful that is to include in some form. ~Cheers,
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I tried to put ] round the name on other page in order to create a new page.
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has his own article. So maybe unbalanced, but not necessarily "ridiculous"?
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By rights, this page would provide a more detailed account of the escape.
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please could you add a citation for where you got these numbers from? â
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A news item involving Endurance (1912 ship) was featured on Knowledge's
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Lists_of_shipwrecks#Findings_and_raisings
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sourcing issue without antagonising anyone, albeit rather wordily.
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If you cannot find cites why not just delete all the uncited stuff?
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1407:, thanks for your work on this article. I think this reference
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original location, so those coords probably aren't far off. â
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Ah, that's my mistake! I meant to tag the first part with a
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Hello, people who know how to edit Knowledge pages!
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1009:â Preceding
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19:This is the
1623:used them.
1616:James Caird
1611:James Caird
1260:Coordinates
947:Good luck!
236:section on
232:In the news
148:free images
31:not a forum
1746:Categories
1720:Shipwrecks
1661:References
1441:Citation:
1395:References
1375:JThistle38
1345:JThistle38
1330:JThistle38
1293:NBC report
1278:JThistle38
1172:The Escape
1152:Mrs Chippy
1148:Ship's dog
1090:Mrs Chippy
1054:Mrs Chippy
771:Shipwrecks
734:Shipwrecks
344:Antarctica
335:Antarctica
301:Antarctica
1511:Endurance
1471:The Times
1364:reasoning
1358:Abductive
1318:reasoning
1312:Abductive
1272:Abductive
762:shipwreck
250:Knowledge
226:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1586:GA-RT-22
1550:ZScarpia
1487:ZScarpia
1445:section.
1266:this rev
1189:Valetude
1182:exploit.
1039:Thanks!
1011:unsigned
906:unsigned
898:Untitled
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1651:Parasol
1572:Parasol
1527:Parasol
1207:Chidgk1
825:history
798:on the
506:on the
371:on the
272:B-class
228:in the
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1238:Joseph
1104:(Talk)
951:carena
605:Norway
596:Norway
555:Norway
278:scale.
126:Google
1297:video
1134:Mhkay
872:-None
842:To Do
835:purge
830:watch
695:Ships
653:Ships
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1734:talk
1703:ISBN
1679:ISBN
1629:talk
1609:The
1590:talk
1509:his
1431:talk
1416:talk
1399:Hi,
1379:talk
1334:talk
1305:NOAA
1282:talk
1248:talk
1243:2302
1226:talk
1211:talk
1193:talk
1160:talk
1138:talk
1120:talk
1088:See
1080:talk
1065:talk
1045:talk
1019:talk
994:talk
975:talk
955:talk
914:talk
820:edit
678:Ship
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1646:Ton
1641:Ten
1567:Ton
1562:Ten
1548:â
1522:Ton
1517:Ten
1485:â
1301:SIO
790:Mid
624:???
498:Mid
363:Top
176:TWL
1748::
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