364:
354:
341:
328:
315:
305:
287:
273:
259:
245:
232:
219:
837:
balcony. The third story was slanted downward toward the front of the building, so the back of the third story is actually much higher than the front. The second story was only at the rear of the building, in between the first and third floors. This is a bit complicated to visualize, but it's a common thing with theaters, where the back of the auditorium is much higher than the front.
53:
382:
482:
starts with the pre-history that chronologically belongs before the "Design" section, as it explains how these plans were made. I would be happier if this prehistory were moved before a "Design" section covering what the building looked like originally, with later additions extra. Or at least consider purging the "Design" section from all bits that are about later changes.
401:
Pictures: Licensing looks fine. Captions could be better, though: please add at least when the pictures were taken (or before when if you only know when they were published). Pictures are relevant and useful. It would be nice to have plan drawings, or a map showing the location of the other buildings
725:
design phase, the
Engineers' Club commissioned their own building, which was funded by Andrew Carnegie, the industrialist also responsible for funding the Engineering Societies' Building. The three engineering societies (AIME, AIEE, ASME) required space for offices, but the sources I've found do not
618:
Oh, I see the confusion now. You are seeing the "design" section as though it is about the activity of actually designing the building. Whereas I am treating it more as a noun, i.e. what its architecture is about. I changed the header to instead read "Architecture". I hope that clears up things up -
481:
I'm not a huge fan of the organisation / section ordering. We have Site = where is it (described mostly in the present, with some history), then Design = how was it originally built, described mostly in the past, with some bits that are still the same described in present tense, then
History, which
614:
Funding/design competition would flow better if combined with the construction. In the lead section's current structure, the building is first built, then designed, then financed and a design competition held. (This is also an issue with the whole article, but it is even more visible in the lead).
836:
On the photograph, the first story is on the ground, with the horizontal grooves of rustication. The next stories are the third and fourth stories, which are the arches at the center. The auditorium was placed on these two stories; the third story was the main level and the fourth story was the
489:
brought up some similar issues about organization; the reviewer in that case believed that there were significant parts of the history in the design section. These two articles were written together, so I suppose there might be some merit to this point. But the "Design" section is more about
716:
did they require anything other than X sq ft of office space? It seems they also had a couple of rather large auditoria ("auditoriums" is a legal but less pretty plural), not necessarily something I'd expect as part of "space for the three societies".
525:"Focus" is probably the point I am least sure about. I'd say the amount of detail in the architectural description is almost excessive, and the snippets of who rented what at some random point in time could perhaps be consolidated a little more.
707:
I was expecting to learn about the design competition that was promised in the lead here (but apparently you use the word "design" for "architectural design" or "building description" only, not for the design phase of the thing). The
853:
the aedicular archways look pretty awesome for balcony doors, are these the ones visible on the
Auditorium photograph? (They look higher up there than on the outside images unless the auditorium is part underground?).
720:
As mentioned above, I think the confusion is that you were expecting something about the design phase of the building's history. It is about architecture, however, so I have just changed the header.As for the
58:
1036:
When was this? Sentence seems a bit mangled. Was
Carnegie approached about this twice or three times? (In the second sentence it isn't totally clear whether this is a separate event from the following).
528:
For the architectural description, I think the level of detail is necessary to make the topic comprehensive, since the building is listed on the
National Register of Historic Places in large part
659:"Client" and "Landlord" are from very different eras, which is confusing (it looks like Thor Equities rented the building to the engineers). Annotate to clarify or remove some of the entries.
452:
137:
133:
419:
The captions I specifically object to are "Foyer", "Auditorium" and "Seen in a magazine article". Some of the others either have context ("original") or are obviously recent. —
118:
63:
899:
I think I can add some images about both subsections. The decorations were pretty ornate. Some of the details about the windows are no longer true so I have removed them.
398:
This is a substantial, well-researched and amazingly detailed article. I have rather a lot of comments at various levels of nitpickiness, but overall I am quite impressed.
110:
91:
896:
The "base" and "shaft" subsections perhaps go into slightly too much detail (or perhaps should be accompanied by illustrations to make them easier to understand).
683:
39th/40th Street is a bit confusing. The building is on 39th Street, the
Engineers' Club is on 40th Street, but the lot of this building runs along 40th Street?
405:
Many of the pictures are actually my own, but adding (2021) may be a bit repetitive. I am considering adding a map of the Bryant Park area's buildings, however.
81:
923:
when reading from the front, it took me until "mm" to understand that "in" is not a preposition, but an abbreviation here. Consider "6 in (150 mm) long"?
595:
I don't think the lead does the article's main feature (the very detailed description of the original architecture) justice. You could expand this part.
1191:
Apparently so. The competition was just to select the architects; it looks like the report was not published until over a year after that happened.
17:
126:
564:
What I might like to know more about is how the building fits into the architects' overall oeuvre. Did they build lots of things like this?
809:
The adjacent structure at 23 West 39th Street, designed for the
Engineers' Club, a storefront and a five-story, two-bay-wide brick facade.
486:
504:
The new heading clarifies this. I think we still disagree on the best ordering, but yours is certainly acceptable for GA status. —
103:
209:
86:
37:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1439:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
522:
It is well sourced to RS, although some of the sources just happen to mention that business X was located there at time Y.
745:
views from where? how did his ownership preserve anything? You could also tell the non-Americans who Andrew
Carnegie is.
985:
When fashion designer Tommy
Hilfiger used the building as a showroom, there was a grand suite on the sixteenth floor ...
167:
456:
709:
1034:
The first proposal for what would become the
Engineering Societies Building, when ... Weaver asked Carnegie ...
1188:
Were the criteria for the building really prepared after the competition had ended? This seems very strange.
686:
That is an error, which I have fixed. The building's only frontage is on 39th Street, Thanks for the catch.
1374:
They had hired a team to "potentially" offer the building for sale, but it seems there were no takers.
1429:
1407:
1383:
1361:
1342:
1323:
1301:
1282:
1258:
1239:
1200:
1181:
1159:
1133:
1111:
1089:
1070:
1021:
999:
968:
946:
908:
889:
866:
846:
823:
801:
779:
757:
735:
695:
671:
647:
628:
607:
581:
555:
541:
513:
499:
468:
446:
428:
414:
185:
171:
1403:
1379:
1357:
1338:
1319:
1297:
1278:
1254:
1235:
1196:
1177:
1155:
1129:
1107:
1085:
1066:
1017:
995:
964:
942:
904:
885:
862:
842:
819:
797:
775:
753:
731:
691:
667:
643:
624:
603:
537:
495:
442:
410:
1371:
did they offer it for sale or was this just talked about? It seems to have come to nothing anyway?
981:
The twelfth and thirteenth stories contain some original moldings but have been largely redesigned
932:
The top stories are supported by four columns resting directly on the underlying layer of bedrock.
490:
architecture than about history (I realized that only after seeing your comments about the lead).
1052:
1398:
Thanks for the detailed comments. I have addressed almost all of the issues you brought up now.
1314:
This appears to have been beneath the auditorium, as the auditorium itself became office space.
714:
The main requirement was that the interior had to include space for the three founding societies
194:
1309:
the lowest stories were characterized as containing a seven-story garage with 215 parking spots
1077:
Planning: Is this the same $ 1 million or a different $ 1 million that Carnegie is offering?
770:
Yes. The western driveway still exists and separates this building from 37 West 49th Street.
765:
eastern driveway entrance was replaced ... while the western entrance contains a service gate
459:
issue, which you could add to the caption if you want. But I'm happy now and will promote. —
1420:
Good edits. I think I'll be satisfied when you address the captions for the old pictures. —
990:
I have changed the main header to "Architecture". Hopefully this is not a problem anymore.
1425:
1415:
1399:
1375:
1353:
1334:
1315:
1293:
1274:
1250:
1231:
1192:
1173:
1151:
1125:
1103:
1081:
1062:
1013:
991:
960:
938:
900:
881:
858:
838:
833:
sorry, I don't get it. What do I see on the photograph between the first and third story?
815:
793:
771:
749:
727:
687:
663:
639:
620:
599:
577:
569:
551:
533:
509:
491:
464:
438:
424:
406:
181:
161:
376:
322:
1143:
I thought the societies bought the plots, so why is the location related to the gift?
348:
226:
199:
831:
the second story was designed as a partial story and is not visible from the facade.
532:
of architectural attributes. I do agree about the list of who rented what, however.
874:
335:
281:
267:
253:
381:
1421:
1393:
573:
547:
505:
460:
434:
420:
177:
157:
767:
so the western entrance still exists and connects to this service gate now?
239:
1369:
Thor Equities considered selling the building for at least $ 200 million
983:
This "redesign" is probably part of "history", not "design"? Same with
926:
I actually fixed this by using the full form of "6-inch-long (150 mm)".
635:
Did nothing notable enough for the lead happen between 1960 and 2005?
1270:
Generally, some of the detail on who rented what floor could be cut.
1330:
Do we need to know about Hilfiger's HQ legally being in Hong Kong?
1141:
The New York Times wrote of the gift: "The location agreed upon..."
959:
Both at the 1st and the 9th stories, but this was the 9th story.
877:? (Or is it just my poor English that I didn't know this word?)
712:
was designed by other people, so there were different winners?
375:
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the
1167:
The Conference Committee launched ..., giving $ 1,000 each ...
1012:
As far as I know, they have always been used as office space.
1007:
The fourteenth and fifteenth stories are used as office space.
789:
can this be made less repetitive? ("No" is a fine answer).
880:
It is indeed quite specialist, so I have linked the word.
453:
File:The Iron and steel magazine (1898) (14758753466).jpg
402:
you mention, but this is certainly not a GA requirement.
145:
114:
1246:
So was the ASCE considered a founding society or not?
726:
specify a square footage, just that there be offices.
437:, thanks. I have addressed all of these captions. –
987:which isn't the building's design, but later use.
1311:was the auditorium ripped out or was this below?
1146:Oops, I meant to write that the NYT wrote of the
572:, would you like to take a look at my comments? —
1249:After moving there, yes. I have clarified that.
1213:granted there ... granted to George Westinghouse
1099:don't you mean the gift/money was to be shared?
1040:I have clarified this now - there were 2 events.
176:Will review this over the next couple of days. —
1349:Who is Turion and why do we care about them?
8:
1219:also ... were also ... was also ... was also
1119:The Engineers' Club site had cost $ 225,000
41:
455:is weird because it was published in the
18:Talk:Engineering Societies' Building
1225:Additionally ... additional ... addition
1289:Were Rudinger's plans acted on or not?
954:the door leading to the Engineers' Club
934:which ones are the "top stories" here?
485:I was a bit afraid this might come up.
72:
44:
1368:
1308:
1224:
1218:
1212:
1166:
1140:
1121:wouldn't past tense work better here?
1118:
1096:
1045:
1033:
1006:
984:
980:
953:
931:
920:
830:
808:
786:
764:
742:
713:
7:
1009:What were they used for originally?
204:
33:The following discussion is closed.
743:thus preserving views to that side
638:I have added a little about this.
24:
487:Talk:Engineers' Club Building/GA1
1435:The discussion above is closed.
380:
362:
352:
339:
326:
313:
303:
285:
271:
257:
243:
230:
217:
568:I think that's enough for now.
1:
1352:I removed that part as well.
191:Progress and overall comments
1430:11:06, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
1408:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1384:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1362:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1343:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1324:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1302:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1283:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1259:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1240:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1201:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1182:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1160:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1134:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1112:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1090:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1071:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1022:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
1000:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
969:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
947:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
921:6 in long (150 mm) segmental
909:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
890:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
867:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
847:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
824:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
802:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
780:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
758:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
736:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
696:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
672:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
648:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
629:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
608:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
582:21:30, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
556:11:06, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
542:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
514:11:06, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
500:23:57, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
469:13:29, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
447:13:23, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
429:11:06, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
415:23:59, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
363:
353:
340:
327:
314:
304:
298:
286:
272:
258:
244:
231:
218:
196:
956:where were they connected?
197:
186:14:38, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
172:14:38, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
1454:
1169:inflation for the $ 1000?
937:The 14th and 15th floors.
1097:The cost was to be shared
1437:Please do not modify it.
710:Engineers' Club Building
587:Prose and content review
35:Please do not modify it.
811:This sentence no verb.
857:Yes, you are correct.
1333:I removed that part.
1080:It is the same gift.
916:Structural features:
792:Yes. I have done so.
377:Good Article criteria
349:free or tagged images
1230:Fixed all of these.
1292:It did not happen.
748:I have fixed both.
451:The description of
202:review progress box
1046:$ 1 million dollar
598:I have done this.
379:. Criteria marked
36:
1227:a bit repetitive
395:
394:
391:
390:
387:
100:
99:
34:
1445:
1419:
1397:
1266:Commercial use:
1221:a bit repetitive
1208:1900s to 1940s:
1057:
1051:
787:the facade faces
384:
373:
366:
365:
356:
355:
343:
342:
330:
329:
317:
316:
307:
306:
289:
288:
275:
274:
261:
260:
247:
246:
234:
233:
221:
220:
205:
195:
150:
141:
122:
54:Copyvio detector
42:
1453:
1452:
1448:
1447:
1446:
1444:
1443:
1442:
1441:
1440:
1413:
1391:
1055:
1049:
1048:consider using
976:Upper stories:
589:
361:pics relevant (
193:
131:
108:
102:
96:
68:
39:
29:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
1451:
1449:
1434:
1433:
1432:
1389:
1388:
1387:
1386:
1366:
1365:
1364:
1347:
1346:
1345:
1328:
1327:
1326:
1306:
1305:
1304:
1287:
1286:
1285:
1264:
1263:
1262:
1261:
1244:
1243:
1242:
1222:
1216:
1206:
1205:
1204:
1203:
1186:
1185:
1184:
1164:
1163:
1162:
1138:
1137:
1136:
1116:
1115:
1114:
1094:
1093:
1092:
1075:
1074:
1073:
1043:
1042:
1041:
1027:
1026:
1025:
1024:
1004:
1003:
1002:
974:
973:
972:
971:
951:
950:
949:
929:
928:
927:
914:
913:
912:
911:
894:
893:
892:
871:
870:
869:
851:
850:
849:
828:
827:
826:
806:
805:
804:
784:
783:
782:
762:
761:
760:
740:
739:
738:
701:
700:
699:
698:
677:
676:
675:
674:
653:
652:
651:
650:
633:
632:
631:
612:
611:
610:
588:
585:
566:
565:
562:
561:
560:
559:
558:
523:
520:
519:
518:
517:
516:
479:
478:
477:
476:
475:
474:
473:
472:
471:
399:
393:
392:
389:
388:
386:
385:are unassessed
370:
369:
297:
296:
293:
292:
192:
189:
151:
98:
97:
95:
94:
89:
84:
78:
75:
74:
70:
69:
67:
66:
64:External links
61:
56:
50:
47:
46:
40:
31:
30:
28:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1450:
1438:
1431:
1427:
1423:
1417:
1412:
1411:
1410:
1409:
1405:
1401:
1395:
1385:
1381:
1377:
1373:
1372:
1370:
1367:
1363:
1359:
1355:
1351:
1350:
1348:
1344:
1340:
1336:
1332:
1331:
1329:
1325:
1321:
1317:
1313:
1312:
1310:
1307:
1303:
1299:
1295:
1291:
1290:
1288:
1284:
1280:
1276:
1272:
1271:
1269:
1268:
1267:
1260:
1256:
1252:
1248:
1247:
1245:
1241:
1237:
1233:
1229:
1228:
1226:
1223:
1220:
1217:
1214:
1211:
1210:
1209:
1202:
1198:
1194:
1190:
1189:
1187:
1183:
1179:
1175:
1171:
1170:
1168:
1165:
1161:
1157:
1153:
1149:
1145:
1144:
1142:
1139:
1135:
1131:
1127:
1123:
1122:
1120:
1117:
1113:
1109:
1105:
1101:
1100:
1098:
1095:
1091:
1087:
1083:
1079:
1078:
1076:
1072:
1068:
1064:
1060:
1059:
1054:
1047:
1044:
1039:
1038:
1035:
1032:
1031:
1030:
1023:
1019:
1015:
1011:
1010:
1008:
1005:
1001:
997:
993:
989:
988:
986:
982:
979:
978:
977:
970:
966:
962:
958:
957:
955:
952:
948:
944:
940:
936:
935:
933:
930:
925:
924:
922:
919:
918:
917:
910:
906:
902:
898:
897:
895:
891:
887:
883:
879:
878:
876:
872:
868:
864:
860:
856:
855:
852:
848:
844:
840:
835:
834:
832:
829:
825:
821:
817:
813:
812:
810:
807:
803:
799:
795:
791:
790:
788:
785:
781:
777:
773:
769:
768:
766:
763:
759:
755:
751:
747:
746:
744:
741:
737:
733:
729:
724:
719:
718:
715:
711:
706:
705:
704:
697:
693:
689:
685:
684:
682:
681:
680:
673:
669:
665:
661:
660:
658:
657:
656:
649:
645:
641:
637:
636:
634:
630:
626:
622:
619:the lead is
617:
616:
613:
609:
605:
601:
597:
596:
594:
593:
592:
586:
584:
583:
579:
575:
571:
563:
557:
553:
549:
545:
544:
543:
539:
535:
531:
527:
526:
524:
521:
515:
511:
507:
503:
502:
501:
497:
493:
488:
484:
483:
480:
470:
466:
462:
458:
454:
450:
449:
448:
444:
440:
436:
432:
431:
430:
426:
422:
418:
417:
416:
412:
408:
404:
403:
400:
397:
396:
383:
378:
374:
372:
371:
368:
358:
350:
345:
337:
332:
324:
319:
309:
299:
295:
294:
291:
283:
277:
269:
263:
255:
249:
241:
236:
228:
223:
213:
211:
207:
206:
203:
201:
190:
188:
187:
183:
179:
174:
173:
169:
166:
163:
159:
156:
152:
149:
148:
144:
139:
135:
130:
129:
125:
120:
116:
112:
107:
106:
93:
90:
88:
85:
83:
80:
79:
77:
76:
71:
65:
62:
60:
57:
55:
52:
51:
49:
48:
43:
38:
26:
19:
1436:
1390:
1265:
1207:
1147:
1028:
975:
915:
875:Swag (motif)
722:
702:
678:
654:
590:
567:
529:
360:
347:
334:
321:
311:
301:
279:
265:
251:
238:
225:
215:
208:
200:Good Article
198:
175:
164:
154:
153:
146:
142:
128:Article talk
127:
123:
104:
101:
92:Instructions
32:
302:broadness (
115:visual edit
1416:Epicgenius
1400:Epicgenius
1376:Epicgenius
1354:Epicgenius
1335:Epicgenius
1316:Epicgenius
1294:Epicgenius
1275:Epicgenius
1251:Epicgenius
1232:Epicgenius
1215:repetitive
1193:Epicgenius
1174:Epicgenius
1152:Epicgenius
1126:Epicgenius
1104:Epicgenius
1082:Epicgenius
1063:Epicgenius
1014:Epicgenius
992:Epicgenius
961:Epicgenius
939:Epicgenius
901:Epicgenius
882:Epicgenius
859:Epicgenius
839:Epicgenius
816:Epicgenius
794:Epicgenius
772:Epicgenius
750:Epicgenius
728:Epicgenius
688:Epicgenius
664:Epicgenius
640:Epicgenius
621:Epicgenius
600:Epicgenius
570:Epicgenius
534:Epicgenius
492:Epicgenius
439:Epicgenius
407:Epicgenius
240:ref layout
59:Authorship
45:GA toolbox
1053:inflation
1029:History:
655:Infobox:
155:Reviewer:
82:Templates
73:Reviewing
27:GA Review
703:Design:
210:Criteria
168:contribs
87:Criteria
1102:Fixed.
814:Fixed.
591:Lead:
546:Fine. —
530:because
323:neutral
312:focus (
216:prose (
138:history
119:history
105:Article
1273:Done.
1172:Done.
1124:Done.
1061:Done.
723:actual
679:Site:
662:Done.
336:stable
252:cites
1422:Kusma
1394:Kusma
1148:sites
873:Link
574:Kusma
548:Kusma
506:Kusma
461:Kusma
435:Kusma
421:Kusma
282:WP:CV
268:WP:OR
254:WP:RS
178:Kusma
158:Kusma
147:Watch
16:<
1426:talk
1404:talk
1380:talk
1358:talk
1339:talk
1320:talk
1298:talk
1279:talk
1255:talk
1236:talk
1197:talk
1178:talk
1156:talk
1130:talk
1108:talk
1086:talk
1067:talk
1018:talk
996:talk
965:talk
943:talk
905:talk
886:talk
863:talk
843:talk
820:talk
798:talk
776:talk
754:talk
732:talk
692:talk
668:talk
644:talk
625:talk
604:talk
578:talk
552:talk
538:talk
510:talk
496:talk
465:talk
457:1906
443:talk
425:talk
411:talk
359:6b.
346:6a.
310:3b.
300:3a.
278:2d.
264:2c.
250:2b.
237:2a.
224:1b.
214:1a.
182:talk
162:talk
134:edit
111:edit
333:5.
320:4.
280:no
266:no
227:MoS
1428:)
1406:)
1382:)
1360:)
1341:)
1322:)
1300:)
1281:)
1257:)
1238:)
1199:)
1180:)
1158:)
1150:.
1132:)
1110:)
1088:)
1069:)
1058:.
1056:}}
1050:{{
1020:)
998:)
967:)
945:)
907:)
888:)
865:)
845:)
822:)
800:)
778:)
756:)
734:)
694:)
670:)
646:)
627:)
606:)
580:)
554:)
540:)
512:)
498:)
467:)
445:)
427:)
413:)
184:)
170:)
136:|
117:|
113:|
1424:(
1418::
1414:@
1402:(
1396::
1392:@
1378:(
1356:(
1337:(
1318:(
1296:(
1277:(
1253:(
1234:(
1195:(
1176:(
1154:(
1128:(
1106:(
1084:(
1065:(
1016:(
994:(
963:(
941:(
903:(
884:(
861:(
841:(
818:(
796:(
774:(
752:(
730:(
690:(
666:(
642:(
623:(
602:(
576:(
550:(
536:(
508:(
494:(
463:(
441:(
433:@
423:(
409:(
367:)
357:)
351:(
344:)
338:(
331:)
325:(
318:)
308:)
290:)
284:(
276:)
270:(
262:)
256:(
248:)
242:(
235:)
229:(
222:)
212::
180:(
165:·
160:(
143:·
140:)
132:(
124:·
121:)
109:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.