2033:(a/k/a the Scroll of Antiochus) that explains how Eleazar dies. I'm not making a religious claim here -- no scholars or readers of the Megillat Antiochus dispute this such that a claim needs to be made. It is the plain meaning of the text (and it's apropos to this article since it disagrees with 1 Maccabees 6:43-46 which has Eleazar crushed to death by the elephant he had slain). Meanwhile, none of the sources you cited in opposition to my edit concern themselves at all with how Eleazar dies in Megillat Antiochus, so how could they be relevant to our discussion. (Please, take another look at them.) For that matter, you have ignored the primary source texts I have made reference to. Rather, you have dismissed them as being personal and/or religious views sourced from a personal website, when they are simply provided online as a reference to the primary source under discussion. Knowledge requires that I cite sources, and I have. I have also gone to the trouble of making those sources available online, and in doing so, they have quixotically been dismissed as personal/religious. I have no more words. Thank you for contacting an administrator to resolve this.
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describes the death of
Eleazar. There was no citation to bolster the claim made in the article as I found it. The error would be obvious to anyone who had read the actual work. After correcting this error to the article as I found it, and after your first revision, I provided my sources, initially here on the Talk page (see above) and afterward, in the article itself. Here on the talk page, you mentioned a number of sources none of which discuss how Eleazar's death is discussed in the Scroll of Antiochus. The sources I cited are Kaddari's critical text of the Megillat Antiochus in Aramaic (Bar-Ilan 1963), Tzvi Fillipowski's transcription and English translation from 1851 (hosted at hebrewbooks.org), and Dr. John Reeves' translation. These are sources that can be located online and at any academic library with a good Judaic Studies collection. I only provided a URL to the scanned source material and transcriptions at the Open Siddur Project so that skeptical wikipedia editors such as yourself had an online source to review and realize that I was not inventing something that wasn't already written in the Megillat Antiochus.
2118:). I'm not making a historical claim, I'm only correcting what this wikipedia article says according to this source. The Megillat Antiochus says that the body of Elazar was found under elephant excrement. In making this statement, I'm not disputing anyone. This isn't controversial. This isn't my opinion -- this is plain to every translator of Megillat Antiochus in the numerous languages to which it's translated. It might be unfamiliar to someone who only knows the story of Eleazar from reading I Maccabees. It might not be familiar to you, but that's not my concern. If you think I'm arguing how Eleazar actually died, then you're fundamentally misunderstanding me. (I don't even know whether Eleazar actually lived!)
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that continues to this day as a heritage about Jewish people and Jewish history. No one would claim that WP should adopt the Greek view of the
Maccabees any more than WP should accept the Nazi views about Jews, or what any other group, such as latter-day Christian theologians or secular atheist thinks about the Maccabees because only the Jewish narrative and tradition counts here. There can be no Hanukkah without the Maccabees, and it is impossible to understand the Maccabees without respect for the rabbinically-decreed Jewish holiday of Hanukkah. I think that our problem here is that you are viewing this from a latter-day Christian perspective while I am trying to frame the discussion in its original
1198:) (three of the most experienced, active, knowledgeable, and reliable Judaic editors on WP) all agree with me. Nothing is "tainted" here, and no one is yelling in the streets, this is just something that should be obvious to any editor familiar with how the names of the Maccabees are in current use among Jews to whom this is important. If anything, the correct family name for the Maccabees should be the Hasmoneans, that is how the Book of MACCABEES is known in Hebrew and among Jewish scholars: "Sefer CHASHMONAIM" (Literally: "Book Hasmoneans") and that is also how the
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1935:(Blumenthal Professor of Judaic Studies, University of North Carolina Charlotte). The relevant translation is on page four of the article, "His brothers searched for him among the living and among the dead, but they could not find him. They however afterwards discovered him pressed down in the excrement of an elephant." I really don't want to have to bring an arbitrator into this. Please discontinue from blocking my edit.
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2098:. This in fact is a statement, and so far, all your replies are nothing but statements based on your personal views and not a single source. I don't have to provide any more sources for you. You can google his death yourself. You have violated plenty of polices, and some I have note even mentioned to you yet. Either way, I have contacted an administrator to resolve this issue. —
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811:: I am concerned about the irregularity of the procedure being followed here - this is neither an RM nor and RfC. I am also concerned that WikiProject Judaism was informed, but not other relevant projects. Finally, if I understand things correctly, it seems that the third proposal is (possibly) suggesting moving
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You've set me in a position where I have to explain what I've done to try and (so far unsuccessfully) convince you, possibly transgressing
Wikiepedia policies. So I'll lay it out. When I first came to this article I noticed an error in how it claimed the Scroll of Antiochus (a/k/a Megillat Antiochus)
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the 3 proposals vitually predetermines the outcome. You made a fine argument even before the argument began, IZAK. Accusing me of WP:IDONTLIKEIT and WP:OWN? You doth protest too much, me thinks! It is not WP:LAWYERING to ask that a renaming process goes through WP:RM. That is the accepted method
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before discussion has run its course. Why? Seems to me it is just a defensive move or a search for a "quick fix" to avoid serious discussion that is very common on talk pages like this often leading to reliable conclusions. This would short-end the issues that are being raised here that need a fuller
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Hi
Atefrat and StAnselm. In my initial moves I moved them to the Latin usages i.e. "Maccabeus" because they had those names on the article pages, but but my preferred choice at this time is to go with rational clear English names that are really nothing more than the way the Maccabees are referred to
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This is more than just semantics and terminology, it is about the best way to convey who these people are and how they have been known for the last 2,200 years among Jews in particular, regardless of what pet names they may have been assigned at one point in their lives -- they have taken on a larger
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Read again my comments regarding
Proposal C. I am ready to defer to C providing that "the" is included so as not to imply that Maccabee is a family name. Ignoring the way these names are used in Judaism? What are you accusing me of? I hope it is not what I think. Please feel free to assume from
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StAnselm this may come as a shock to you but the
Maccabees were not "created" by "English-speaking sources". They were Jews, who lived in Judea about 2,200 years ago and fought to uphold Judaism and defend their country against the Greek invaders. So the original situation is all Jewish, and if you
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in
English), and not the "book of this one, that one, and the other one etc" as many religious books are named, and the length of time those articles existed, then what you have is a consensus both of time and about naming conventions that does NOT agree with you. All I am trying to do is to update
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Hi again
Atefrat&StAnselm: In spite of all your protestations to the contrary, this discussion has been eliciting important views and discussions that in the main support me and my moves. The discussion will remain here for the meantime, and when the time comes we will have to take to the next
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celebrates -- so that whatever is said "in
English" must reflect the primary reality and historical events, therefore what Jews and Israelis practice in this regard is crucial because they are the ones that uphold what the Maccabees fought for: Judaism. Thus, this is a Jewish subject, about Jews,
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is faithful to the text. The source I cited is Menaḥem Tzvi
Kaddari “The Aramaic Antiochus Scroll,” (Bar Ilan 1, 1963, p. 81-105). A transcription of this text is available at the Open Siddur Project, an open source project involved with transcribing Jewish liturgy and related work in the Public
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The problems with those names is that they do not tie the people named into a dynastic or familial whole. Like describing royalty by the nicknames they may have gotten rather than by the correct dynasty or class they belong to and are known by historically and in the case of Jews religiously for
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prayer, printed in every Jewish prayer book, recited on Hanukkah by Jews refers to them. But that will blow your circuits too much, so let's stick to the more basic name of Maccabees, which after all is what the Book of Maccabees is about and is known as because it's all about the Maccabees and
386:- Avaran. Maccabeus is not a family name. It was the a name given only to Judas. Each of the brothers had a different name - John Gaddi, Simon Thassi, Judas Maccabeus, Eleazar Avaran, and Jonathan Apphus - all sons of Mattathias son of John son of Simeon, a priest of the family of Joarib.
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P.S. As for Judas vs Yehuda, Shim'on vs Simon, etc. - I believe this also need to be discussed. I'm not sure if we should mix it all into one stew or focus on each issue one step at a time. I have no preference for English or Hebrew transliteration, as long as redirects are created for the
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You, IZAK, insinuated that I care not for how these names are used in Judaism and among Jews to whom this is important. You accused me of WP:IDONTLIKEIT, WP:OWN, WP:LAWYERING, none of which is true. The stalling is a result of your insistence to avoid WP:RM which, in any case, would fall in
1373:, so what's the rush? I have never agreed that a RM is the only route to go, but if it has to come to that we will get there if need be. If you two take up another cause, then an uninvolved admin could just move them to what I advise based on the discussion here. It's done all the time, not
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POV that ignores the way these names are used in Judaism and by Jews. My reason for delaying is to see how much more prior input their could be since not everyone is in agreement that WP:RM should be the first port of call merely because Atefrat&StAnselm can't get over their case of
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Now, while Judaism may not have adopted the official books of Maccabees, yet Judaism DID retain a way of naming and identifying the Maccabees AS Maccabees and not by their individual names per se, thus it is Shimon the Maccabee (i.e. Maccabeus=Latin), Yehudah the Maccabee
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Another not so subtle problem is the clash between the classical Jewish view and the adoption of this subject by Christian scholars, and lately secular ones too, where the obvious direction of the latter is to somehow or other denude the Maccabees of their Jewish
871:. This is the from the Greek Septagint which is a direct translation of the (now lost) Hebrew I Maccabees. Are there any original sources calling all of the brothers Maccabee? If the consensus is for Proposal C, I will defer. However, I think that the names
590:(John Gaddi, Simon Thassi, Judas Maccabeus, Eleazar Avaran, and Jonathan Apphus) given by their father, Mattathias son of John son of Simeon, a priest of the family of Joarib, based on the one biblical source (albeit in Greek, but the oldest surviving version),
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I think the original move was not controversial, because the names originally chosen were highly archaic and not used by anyone today. If you feel strongly that the pages should be retained under their old names, how about we list the current discussion on
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Domain. Since you haven't read the source text of Megillat Antiochus, may I direct you to the English translation by Hirsch Filipowsky (London, 1851) which I linked to above? I'd very much appreciate if you reconsidered and stopped blocking my edit.
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Finally, WP is not bound to Latin verbiage when the English or acceptable Hebrew transliteration is also accepted and can do the same job as ancient Latin or Greek in this case. E.g., it does not have to be "Judas" but rather "Judah" Thank you,
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as the most common versions of these names. I would suggest that each of these three proposals be updated to include the proposed titles for the articles, perhaps with a grid showing the exact titles to be used for each of the three proposals.
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W a i t a m i n u t e ! I just noticed that only Yehuda and Elazar are called HaMaccabee in Hebrew as in Proposal C. However, the Hebrew articles for Yonatan, Yohanan, and Shim'on use the epithets as in Proposal A.
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Of course, Dr. Reeves isn't discussing the "legit death" of Eleazar. I'm not making a historical claim, nor is Dr. Reeves. He's translating a work of religious literature from late Antiquity. I'm describing the content of this work
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1743:וְאֶלְעָזָר הָיָה מִתְעַשֶׂק לְהָמִית הַפִּילִים וַיִּטְבַּע בְּפֶֽרֶשׁ הַפִּילִים וְכַאֲשֶׁר שָֽׁבוּ בִּקְשֽוּהוּ בֵּין הַחַיִּים וּבֵין הַמֵּתִים וְלאֹ מְצָאֽוּהוּ וְאַחַר כֵּן מְצָאֽוּהוּ אֲשֶׁר טֻבַּע בְּפֶֽרֶשׁ הַפִּילִים׃
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The current emphasis appears to give an un-Jewish and pro-Christian spin on the subjects, while downplaying the traditional Jewish view, which after all should the starting point since this is a Jewish event not related to
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You are mistaken. I have not stated my opinion here - as I noted above, I am reserving my response for the RM when it comes. But it concerns me that you are going by "common current usage among Israelis and Jews". You
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debate before going to WP:RM where one admin will come along and deliver a "karate chop" deciding on 2,200 years of history and prematurely ending the discussion which is not what is needed at this point. Thank you,
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move must go through WP:RM, otherwise pages would not have the "move" feature on every page and this is NOT a controversial topic, it's just about a naming convention, as to who do you follow, the Christian
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be going by "common current usage in English-speaking sources". In any case, the existence of the current titles for three years means you will need consensus to change them; something you do not yet have.
598:, I would like to see the inclusion of the words, "the Hasmonean", along with the fact that the brother was one of the "Maccabees". This combination, I believe, would most succinctly satisfy points 1-11.
1735:וְאַלעָזָר הְוָה מִתעַסֵק בֵקַטלָא דפיליא וּטבַע בִפוּרתָא דְפִילָא׃ וּבעוֹהִי אְחוֹהִי בֵין חַיַיָא וּבֵין מִיתַיָא וְלָא אַשׁכַּחוּ יָתֵיה וּבָתַר כֵין אַשׁכַּחוּ יָתֵיה טְבִיּעַ בְפוּרתָא דְפִילָא׃
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doesn't really discuss that the scroll is the legit death of Eleazar Avaran agreed upon scholarly consensus and basically a encyclopedia article in PDF format which is no different from the article:
1979:, and sources are to be based on modern scholars consensus and "majority" and "minority" views if necessary as my sources are based on modern scholars. Also, you are still advertising your website,
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Hi Atefrat&StAnselm: "yelling in the streets"?? "civilized"?? "already tainted"?? "useless"?? Now lookee here who's being vitriolic?! Your words sound like two guys who are desperate to impose
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The name Maccabeus (Greek spelling of the Hebrew, 'ha'Makabi' (the Hammer)) was only historically attached to Judas (Simon's brother). Simon's 'nickname' was actually "Thassi" (See 1 Maccabees 2)
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obviously it is not a case of it being their "surname" any more that sticking them with the names you like, but which (i.e. your choice of names for them) are not the final say by a long a shot.
819:. I note that that article receives 10 times the page views that this article does, and it seems very strange to be discussing its article name here. I note that a message has been posted at
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Therefore, for all the reasons I've cited in the primary source, I believe the details of Elazar's death according to the Scroll of Antiochus be changed, to "suffocation in elephant dung."
513:: "The dynasty was established under the leadership of Simon Maccabaeus, two decades after his brother Judas the Maccabee ("Hammer") defeated the Seleucid army during the Maccabean Revolt."
2093:"but this isn't even a matter of disagreement among scholars -- it is the plain reading of the text of Megillat Antiochus (a/k/a the Scroll of Antiochus) that explains how Eleazar dies."
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El’azar while engaged in killing the elephants, sank in the dung of the elephants. And when they returned from battle they sought him and found him sunk in the dung of the elephants.
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PROPOSAL A: Individual names such as "John Gaddis or Caddis (Johanan Gadi), Simon Thassi, Judas Maccabeus, Eleazar Avaran, and Jonathan Apphus should the names of the articles"
823:, but that doesn't seem to me to be enough for such a significant discussion. (Usually for change of article names, there is a requested move template on the article itself.)
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448:, which have not been fully explained, were probably given them by their father, with reference to contemporary events or to the respective characters of the sons themselves.
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of what they should all be called as one family, one dynasty, one united group. Among Jews no one uses either the archaic Latin or the "nicknames" that you seem to prefer.
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Unacceptable are the misdirected and incorrect accusations as to my motives and my sincerity in resolving this issue in an accepted Knowledge manner. Kind regards, --
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PROPOSAL C: All should have the names of the Maccabees in English, deferring to reasonable transliteration from Hebrew, with the English suffix "...the Maccabee"
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1090:, we must use the definite article. The brothers are members of one group, but Maccabee is not there family name which is what would be implied in English. --
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and here's Hirsch Filipowsky's English translation of the Scroll of Antiochus from the Aramaic, as published by the Jewish Antiquarian Society (London, 1851):
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supports me (albeit with the archaic name "Maccabeus" for most of them); and no one Jewish I know calls them by those preferred Christian-usage names that you
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StAnselm: you have conveniently overlooked (to suit yourself) the fact that the original articles came from and the names were based on the authority of the
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voting for a different name than he had suggested in the initial move. Anyway, I think I will reserve my response until there is a formal move discussion.
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Yes, IZAK. If you are so confident about the outcome that you expect, let's make this an official name change and copy all of the comments into it,
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Jews and Judaism collectively and subsequently individually refers to Matityahu and his five sons as "The Maccabees" -- this is a typical example: "
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Well, that information is readily available in the page history. Most of them were created under "Maccabaeus" around 2005, and were moved because
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1086:. But an official discussion is the difference between Parliament and yelling in the streets. It's simply the civilized Knowledge way. As for
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I'm going to explain to your all the wrong reasons of your edits, sources, and replies etc. I'm going to start with your sources. First of all,
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the naming conventions from Latin to English and call them by the names they are known by in common current usage among Israelis and Jews.
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You claim this is a minority view, but this isn't even a matter of disagreement among scholars -- it is the plain reading of the text of
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Scroll of Antiochus -- the primary source at hand. Respectfully, none of the sources you cited concern how Eleazar died according to the
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The name Apphus is the only one that was ever actually attached to Jonathan (the name Maccabeus was only attached to his brother, Judas)
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In fact, Rabbinic Judaism does not even refer to the Maccabees as such, rather by the generic dynastic term "Hasmoneans", see WP about
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Hello, now that's a new tactic, especially that I don't have a clue what you are referring to. We can only go by the way people edit.
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the long-standing article names, since (1) they make good sense, and (2) they should never have been moved arbitrarily. Indeed, per
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via your website means your source/your website is considered not reliable, therefore, I am going to revert under these grounds. —
112:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
1886:), a work composed in late antiquity sometime between the 2nd and fourth centuries. I didn't refer to "a scroll" -- I referred to
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Probably a wider discussion would be required to arrive at the best possible names for the Maccabees, which I have started below.
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the page of Menaḥem Tzvi Kaddari “The Aramaic Antiochus Scroll,” (Bar Ilan 1, 1963, p. 99) in which the death of Elazar appears
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Dear Atefrat&StAnselm: Today is the 13th of November, the discussion I posted only started on the 7th of November a mere
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1593:(it's not the most religiously Jewish either) that refers to the individual Maccabees in the scholarly, albeit now archaic,
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Knowledge is not based on religious views, values, personal views, beliefs, ideals, personal website etc. like your site:
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I'm telling you right now that your version of his death does not even show as a minority view or even on online search —
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Yes, Eleazar did die from an elephant, but not by being stuck in elaphant dung. Yes, you sourced it based on what?...
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345:. I believe that there is no justification for such a move and is based on a misunderstanding. Eleazar was indeed
255:-related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Ancient Christian Martyrdom: Diverse Practices, Theologies, and Traditions, The Anchor Yale Bible Reference Library
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1780:? So far, majority of source say he was smashed by an elephant he killed with Antiochus on top of the elephant.
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No admin is going to make a karate chop ... the same criteria would apply. As it is, the consensus so far is
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The problem, as I see it, is the way in which this renaming process has been conducted. Look at those
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The subject of the sentence that I edited in this article concerned how Eleazar died according to the
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All the People in the Bible: An A-z Guide to the Saints, Scoundrels, and Other Characters in Scripture
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The most obvious source for Eleazar's name is the the (apocryphal) biblical book "I Maccabees". In
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Hi StAnselm, thanks for your feedback. Could you please point out and give more information as to
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like, one can talk of how the Greeks fought the Jews -- and lost, which is what the festival of
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Here's the text from the critical edition of the Aramaic original of the Scroll of Antiochus,
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historic context and the way it is still seen and practiced by Jews, Israelis and in Judaism.
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Yes, just in terms of procedure, I have strong objections to your suggestion, IZAK. It
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David Noel Freedman, Allen C. Myers, Astrid B. Beck, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2000
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days ago, in that time four expert Judaic editors have supported me and not you; the
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These would be my preferred choices at this time for the six main Maccabees, as per
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PROPOSAL B: All should be named using Latin names and Latin suffix of "Maccabeus"
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upport. The archaic names mentioned above are not used by anyone; need to follow
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to point out your flagrant disregard for established procedure. Either you use
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favor! Why do you resist. Just do it already and put an end to all this. --
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common in Hebrew or in common references. In my "Proposal C" I am only giving
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Well, why not just take it to the next level now, and post a requested move?
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Mattathias and his five sons (Jonathan, Simon, Judah, Eleazar, and Yohanan--
1844:, you are using your personal website as a source. This is not allowed per
223:
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2087:. And yes, controversial articles do in fact require scholars sources per
416:
This article should be reverted to its original name "Eleazar Avaran". --
168:
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1112:
like you don't think you will get the result you desire if we go through
867::My first choice is as stated above for Proposal A based on the names in
445:
1516:
those pages were moved to "Apphus/Thassi". Thanks for all your efforts.
1156:
to stall things here, since as you can see that right off the bat Users
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is your website based on your thoughts via unreliable and violation of
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should be used if editors wish the title of this article to be changed.
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2091:. You said your not trying to make a statement, yet you stated this,
1739:
and here's the text in the medieval Hebrew translation of the above:
1271:
these names are used in Judaism and by Jews to whom this is important
883:
Maccabee. The Hebrew Knowledge articles include the definite artcle.
439:
The type of naming you like is referred to in the Jewish Encyclopedia
1895:
1229:
Knowledge:Article titles#Proposed naming conventions and guidelines
120:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
1028:
All from the common Hebrew/Jewish usage of "HaMaccabee" as User
1894:. I'm not certain whether you can read Aramaic or Hebrew, but
1304:
level unless you stop your stonewalling and word-games. Thank,
15:
480:
Indeed, as you affirm, the Encyclopedia Britannica refers to
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may need to be added to this article. Please refer to the
353:, ie, a member of the group of brothers originally led by
1568:, on the other hand, was created with that name in 2010.
1508:, and was moved to its present title in 2010; same with
588:
leaving the long-standing personal names with the epithet
2065:
1972:
1469:, and was moved to its present title in 2010; same with
2096:
2077:
1991:
as I contact an administrator to resolve this issue. —
251:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1815:Richard R. Losch, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2008
790:. Not a difficult choice, given the convention.--
2198:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Judaism#Eleazar_Avaran
399:britannica.com has an entry for Eleazar Maccabeus
1799:by Candida R. Moss, Yale University Press, 2012
2196:Please see the discussion I just initiated at
895:We need to turn this discussion into a formal
627:, all articles should be moved immediately to
517:than life nomenclature in the passage of time.
1278:11 Naming conventions on WP for the Maccabees
8:
1382:or the Jewish tradition? Simple, isn't it?!
1060:: A few users have been suggesting going to
631:until there is a consensus to move them. --
1727:Death of Eleazar in the Scroll of Antiochus
1148:it seems, and using hyperbole bordering on
19:
1933:see this one by the scholar John C. Reeves
739:Knowledge:Naming conventions (use English)
431:Naming conventions on WP for the Maccabees
197:
47:
2240:Knowledge requested photographs of people
318:Nothing has come out of this discussion.
1453:: there have been two proposals to move
1227:, or you follow the procedure listed at
308:Eleazar Avaran - NOT - Eleazar Maccabeus
2142:
1342:your insinuations about my motives. --
199:
49:
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1927:I've gone to the trouble of uploading
405:. In that article, Eleazar is called
1397:I'm still waiting for an apology. --
390:in the biblical sources can the name
7:
2235:Biography articles without infoboxes
913:Part of the confusion has come from
540:Discussion: How should the original
328:The following discussion is closed.
245:This article is within the scope of
106:This article is within the scope of
761:Maccabee), we could also name them
38:It is of interest to the following
1256:I, @Efrat, am desperate to impose
14:
875:the definite article, ie, Elazar
1896:Filipowsky's English translation
1805:Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible
1718:The discussion above is closed.
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285:This article has been rated as
130:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography
2245:WikiProject Biography articles
2230:Start-Class biography articles
2152:"The Aramaic Antiochus Scroll"
2150:Kaddari, Menaḥem Tzvi (1963).
1265:my Knowledge User name that I
357:. However, Eleazar's name is
133:Template:WikiProject Biography
1:
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1246:01:46, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
1215:12:36, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
800:01:11, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
265:Knowledge:WikiProject Judaism
259:and see a list of open tasks.
2250:Start-Class Judaism articles
1131:20:30, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
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490:refers to the Maccabees as:
426:08:27, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
349:and could rightly be called
268:Template:WikiProject Judaism
118:contribute to the discussion
160:list of biography infoboxes
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435:In response to the above:
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2216:22:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
1042:) points out. Thank you,
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1882:(otherwise known as the
1720:Please do not modify it.
957:www.myjewishlearning.com
330:Please do not modify it.
162:for further information.
1285:in our Knowledge world.
968:Mattathias the Maccabee
737:English over Latin per
568:be known on Knowledge?:
172:
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28:This article is rated
2066:http://opensiddur.org
1973:http://opensiddur.org
1020:(would also agree to
1010:(would also agree to
1000:(would also agree to
990:(would also agree to
980:(would also agree to
978:Jonathan the Maccabee
974:), and his five sons:
970:(would also agree to
596:introductory sentence
351:Eleazar the Maccabean
171:
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109:WikiProject Biography
1788:The Bible in History
1629:" collectively and "
1602:MATTATHIAS MACCABEUS
1018:Yohanan the Maccabee
1008:Eleazar the Maccabee
821:Talk:Judas Maccabeus
492:MATTATHIAS MACCABEUS
380:(in greek καλούμενος
1892:Scroll of Antiochus
1880:Scroll of Antiochus
1790:by Robert B. Waltz
1590:Jewish Encyclopedia
1512:and this page" and
1506:Jonathan Maccabaeus
1467:Jonathan Maccabaeus
1366:Jewish Encyclopedia
1269:concerned with how
972:Mattathias Maccabee
879:Maccabee or Elazar
548:and his five sons,
487:Jewish Encyclopedia
374:1 Maccabees 6:42–46
248:WikiProject Judaism
2116:Megillat Antiochus
2085:Megillat Antiochus
2079:. Your PDF source
2031:Megillat Antiochus
1884:Megillat Antiochus
1609:JONATHAN MACCABEUS
998:Judah the Maccabee
988:Simon the Maccabee
817:Judah the Maccabee
755:Yehudah HaMaccabee
747:Eleazar HaMaccabee
699:naming conventions
496:JONATHAN MACCABEUS
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136:biography articles
34:content assessment
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1983:etc. Please read
982:Jonathan Maccabee
869:1 Maccabees 2:1–5
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592:1 Maccabees 2:1–5
511:Hasmonean dynasty
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